Cryptic can't just create zen. Zen must be purchased or what is the point of the system for them ? I understand the thinking, but this isn't a single player game.
Sure some people grind thousands of zen and buy $200 ship packs with no cost to them... but the ships still cost $200. Cryptic still gets paid. You simply played the game for another player... they paid you with Zen for your farmed Dil.
The problem is really simple... there isn't enough reason for players to buy other players purple rocks right now. Cryptic needs find new ways for players to want purple rocks... they can add things, they can tweak current prices, they can add taxes. People have suggested a ton of options. But what they won't do is just convert all the "Farmers" into a single game style farming mechanic where the game just gives them money for spending time playing. The only reason to farm purple rocks is to SELL them to other players.
The exchange ground out cause the farm supply is higher then the demand. They have tried to curtail the farming in the past... but they can't really do that when every second month they have a recruit event of some form. I mean they can't penalize playing multiple toons when its what they have been pushing for YEARs. The exchange is also not that far gone... as much as we all want to call doom cause you can't convert instantly right now, a week or so out is not so far gone its not fixable.
See we are all assuming that the exchange is something Cryptic actually WANTS to fix, and that they still actually WANT players to still be able to get things without spending their own money.
Zen bought on the Dilithium Exchange is still Zen that has been bought with real money though. So Cryptic STILL gets their money either way. Just because Player A bought Zen and sold it to Player B for Dilithium doesn't mean Cryptic didn't get money one whatever Player B buys with that Zen. And Cryptic has said that a healthy DL economy is good for everyone.
Honestly I think the problem is that people are assuming Cryptic has no interest because of the "lack of progress". The problem with this is that the problem is highly complex. All you have to do is look at the discussions us forumites have had. A lot of solutions thrown around, but ultimately most are either short term band-aids or won't work at all. Cryptic has tried some smaller methods already, everything from re-roll token purchase ability to Vanity Shield sales. Some have worked (shield sale), some haven't (re-roll token). They may very well be working on larger solutions, but they are under no obligation to give us play-by-play commentary on it.
So while yea its frustrating to see what looks like no progress on the problem, that doesn't mean they aren't working on it behind the scenes at all. And its all too easy to give in to that frustration and attack, which starts leading to further belief that unless a solution appears within the next five minutes, Cryptic does not care.
Complex problems, like a player driven economy, take time. And yes while I am frustrated as well... I recognize that there is no magic bullet solution. It may very well take MANY things working together to solve it, both big and small.
All we can really do is hope for something sustainable that will benefit everyone.
See we are all assuming that the exchange is something Cryptic actually WANTS to fix, and that they still actually WANT players to still be able to get things without spending their own money.
Zen bought on the Dilithium Exchange is still Zen that has been bought with real money though. So Cryptic STILL gets their money either way. Just because Player A bought Zen and sold it to Player B for Dilithium doesn't mean Cryptic didn't get money one whatever Player B buys with that Zen. And Cryptic has said that a healthy DL economy is good for everyone.
While it's true that Cryptic makes money from the dilex, the question is whether they are making MORE (key word) money from a slow to non-functioning dilex.
Because if someone cannot do an INSTANT trade for zen and instead has to wait several WEEKS, they would then be more likely (key word) to just buy the zen to satisfy their desire to INSTANTLY get the thing they want from the zen store.
Again, it's not that they didn't make (some) profit from the dilex, it's that they can potentially make MORE profit due to it's current situation.
Sadly the ONE thing that has worked for a long time was having new Holdings. When Colony came out they said in 2018 that likely be the last one. Still I think it be WISE to reconsider expanding Tier III Holdings out to Tier IV, while adding some new options to buy at those holdings as well. Still they seem resistant to that idea, even though it could allow one updated every year or two for 5-10 years.
Still I'd love to see an Artifact Fleet Holding very much, especially if it offered more Anti-Borg type weapons, or defense or offensive choices, perhaps even a few unique Traits based on all they've learned about the Borg. Might also not just apply to Borg either, given they are quite technologically advanced Collective; can't really call them a Species.
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I've said I'd welcome a new Crafting ITEM to unlock at R&D 20, perhaps that might be something to unlock at a new Holding for Fleet Credit &/or DIL? Yet would require you to be 20 R&D in a given school, and given there are 8 R&D Schools, I could easily see each costing 150,000 Fleet Credit's and perhaps 60,000 DIL for each school? Might expand some crafting options, though they could also do that at Research Station upon upgrading to Tier IV as well though...
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Surely there has to be something they can find to expand a few options for DIL.
Sadly the ONE thing that has worked for a long time was having new Holdings. When Colony came out they said in 2018 that likely be the last one. Still I think it be WISE to reconsider expanding Tier III Holdings out to Tier IV, while adding some new options to buy at those holdings as well. Still they seem resistant to that idea, even though it could allow one updated every year or two for 5-10 years.
Still I'd love to see an Artifact Fleet Holding very much, especially if it offered more Anti-Borg type weapons, or defense or offensive choices, perhaps even a few unique Traits based on all they've learned about the Borg. Might also not just apply to Borg either, given they are quite technologically advanced Collective; can't really call them a Species.
I've said I'd welcome a new Crafting ITEM to unlock at R&D 20, perhaps that might be something to unlock at a new Holding for Fleet Credit &/or DIL? Yet would require you to be 20 R&D in a given school, and given there are 8 R&D Schools, I could easily see each costing 150,000 Fleet Credit's and perhaps 60,000 DIL for each school? Might expand some crafting options, though they could also do that at Research Station upon upgrading to Tier IV as well though...
Surely there has to be something they can find to expand a few options for DIL.
Anyways nothing we can do...
Artifact fleet holding... a xenoarchaeology holding. That could actually be fun. Plenty of old next gen episodes with Picard playing hobby archaeologist, all it would need would be a warehouse type room for collecting and storing artifacts. Gear wise they would throw in whatever they want... and call it prototype X dead species gear. Picard ran into artifacts from at least 4 or 5 dead civilizations would be easy enough to please the role players.
Sadly the ONE thing that has worked for a long time was having new Holdings. When Colony came out they said in 2018 that likely be the last one. Still I think it be WISE to reconsider expanding Tier III Holdings out to Tier IV, while adding some new options to buy at those holdings as well. Still they seem resistant to that idea, even though it could allow one updated every year or two for 5-10 years.
Still I'd love to see an Artifact Fleet Holding very much, especially if it offered more Anti-Borg type weapons, or defense or offensive choices, perhaps even a few unique Traits based on all they've learned about the Borg. Might also not just apply to Borg either, given they are quite technologically advanced Collective; can't really call them a Species.
I've said I'd welcome a new Crafting ITEM to unlock at R&D 20, perhaps that might be something to unlock at a new Holding for Fleet Credit &/or DIL? Yet would require you to be 20 R&D in a given school, and given there are 8 R&D Schools, I could easily see each costing 150,000 Fleet Credit's and perhaps 60,000 DIL for each school? Might expand some crafting options, though they could also do that at Research Station upon upgrading to Tier IV as well though...
Surely there has to be something they can find to expand a few options for DIL.
Anyways nothing we can do...
Artifact fleet holding... a xenoarchaeology holding. That could actually be fun. Plenty of old next gen episodes with Picard playing hobby archaeologist, all it would need would be a warehouse type room for collecting and storing artifacts. Gear wise they would throw in whatever they want... and call it prototype X dead species gear. Picard ran into artifacts from at least 4 or 5 dead civilizations would be easy enough to please the role players.
I'd LOVE a Artifact Fleet Holding based on the Picard Series, especially given it occurs just 9 years before STO.
It's actually a decent idea when you put it like that. Artifact consoles could usher new ways of doing interesting things to the bad guys while tying the holding or holding expansions to a recent series thematically. I was going to repeat myself but at this point all I can say is I'd love to do something like this too. You can't argue with passion.
I'd LOVE a Artifact Fleet Holding based on the Picard Series, especially given it occurs just 9 years before STO.
Gets a thumbs up from me. As long as the 'dilithium' cost of the holding's rewards are focused almost exclusively on the items players purchase rather the developing the holdings themselves, which should be bunches of ECs, some DOFFS and crafting materials. But the 'artifact' items come with serious dilithium price tags (100k or more, each).
I think a mix of cost is fine. I know as you have pointed out that a lot of fleets have the big rollers that pony up most of the Dill... BUT no need to mess with that much. As long as the dill costs are in line with other non colony holdings I think it would be fine.
I do agree completely that the cost on gear should be higher... in fact to make it super low effort for Cryptic.
Why not use such a holding to re release +1 versions of older holding gear. As an example... say Sarthong the system Vash did some unsanctioned digging, why not release black market Sarthong tuned Romulan embassy consoles. They could just copy the Romulan consoles add a +1 mod of something that would make them useful in the current game, and charge 4-5x the dill for them vs standard Romulan consoles. They could do the same for mine consoles. Seems to me they could use the Archeology and Anthropology holding in an ongoing way... adding new tiers now and then with new revisited old gear. The best way to sink Dill is to get people buying and upgrading new gear.
TNG actually had a archaeology and anthropology officer.... so there ya go new BOFFs and or Doffs should be logical enough. Also a perfectly logical holding name Archeology and Anthropology.
TNG also if I remember showed off a archaeology lab on the enterprise. Heck I think there was even an episode where one of the minor racaes had actual Archeology ships. lol
I'd LOVE a Artifact Fleet Holding based on the Picard Series, especially given it occurs just 9 years before STO.
Gets a thumbs up from me. As long as the 'dilithium' cost of the holding's rewards are focused almost exclusively on the items players purchase rather the developing the holdings themselves, which should be bunches of ECs, some DOFFS and crafting materials. But the 'artifact' items come with serious dilithium price tags (100k or more, each).
I think a mix of cost is fine. I know as you have pointed out that a lot of fleets have the big rollers that pony up most of the Dill... BUT no need to mess with that much.
It's completely understandable that full time market manipulators would want to maintain the status quo.
I'd LOVE a Artifact Fleet Holding based on the Picard Series, especially given it occurs just 9 years before STO.
Gets a thumbs up from me. As long as the 'dilithium' cost of the holding's rewards are focused almost exclusively on the items players purchase rather the developing the holdings themselves, which should be bunches of ECs, some DOFFS and crafting materials. But the 'artifact' items come with serious dilithium price tags (100k or more, each).
I think a mix of cost is fine. I know as you have pointed out that a lot of fleets have the big rollers that pony up most of the Dill... BUT no need to mess with that much.
It's completely understandable that full time market manipulators would want to maintain the status quo.
It's all about maximizing their profit.
I'm not just a manipulator... I'm also a member. Of a fleet where my name is at the top of multiple leaderboards. lol I have tons of fleet dill pool stored up from admiralty, I think I could probably finish the first couple tiers of a small holding without even touching real dill.
I do agree that gear costs on new holding stuff should go up... and cryptic should make the gear good enough to ensure people buy it. Releasing K13 type consoles no one wants won't sink any real dill.
Something i've been thinking on with this is rebalancing the fleet contributions to make dilithium and officers a more attractive donation than they are now for benefit of both farmers and buyers. As it stands now those ones are always empty for ages due to the terrible ratio of creds to donations.
What i was thinking is increase the dilithium to 5 fleet creds per dil, and the officers to 1k each.
Under the current system
Say i want to buy the lukari boff, as usual all that is available is dil and doffs
160k dil donation to get the credits via dil. Twenty days worth of dil using one toon or a massive amount of grinding using alts.
Another 40k in buying the officer. Five days worth on one toon or grind alts to get faster.
This is a 25 days/toons worth of dil to get one boff
Under what i suggest
I want to buy the lukari boff, as usual all that is available is dil and doffs
32k dil donation to get the fleet creds. Easily manageable, four days worth of dil or grind on four alts for a day, reasonable cost to reward ratio.
Another 40k in buying the officer. Five days worth on one toon or grind alts to get faster.
This is 9 days/toons worth for one boff
With the values adjusted dilithuim would become vastly more viable as fleet donations due to the increase fleet credit to dil ratio and i believe would lead to more people in fleets filling it instead of a few people shouldering it all or it only getting donated when someone gets tour of duty 10 in klingon admiralty.
Would benefit the market too because a small zen purchase the suggested values would go a long way converted into dil to use for credits.
As it stands now
£7.99 1200 zen
1200*500= 600k dil
600k dil x 1fleet mark=600k fleet creds
With changed value
£7.99 1200 zen
1200*500= 600k dil
600k dil x 5 fleet marks = 3mil fleet creds
People that don't wanna spend could earn 40k fleet creds a day per toon donating dilithuim, and people who didn't want to farm could buy the cheapest zen option sell it on the exchange which would help the current skewed balance.
As i mentioned earlier increasing doffs to 1k each to make them more attractive to fill as they are currently slow ones as well and with the dil reward more attractive they would become less so. They would need buffing up too to avoid them becoming the new everyone ignores and hopes someone else fills it entry.
I believe this would lead to people being more willing to fill all the donation requirements while making dilithium more valuable to trade zen for as it would let people vastly speed up getting fleet boffs, consoles ect, speed up the pace at which projects are filled and completed so that new ones can be started giving people more chances to earn fleet creds, while at the same time preserving viable options for both cash spenders and free players alike.
So i have been thinking on this and have thought on how rebalancing the rewards could solve alot of these problems by making dilithium and officers more viable for donation. Currently these two sit empty due to the poor ratios. What i am thinking is to increase the fleet credits per dilithium to 5 and officers to 1k each.
Under the current system
I want to buy the lukari boff, as usual only dil and officers are available to fill
160k dil for fleet credits. Twenty days worth one one toon or a massive grind using alts
40k for the boff, five days using one toon or grind on 5 alts
25 days/toons worth of dil to get
Under my suggestion
32k dil for the fleet creds, four days on one toon or farm on a few alts
40k for the boff, five days using one toon or grind on 5 alts
9 days/toons worth of dil to get
I believe this would make dilithium more attractive to being filled due to the better payoff, leading to projects being filled and completed faster meaning more being started giving more peeople chances to earn fleet creds. Buffing the officers to 1k each would offset them becoming the new everyone ignores it and hopes someone else does it.
I also believe this would help the market skew in zen to dil trading since under the new ammounts a small purchase would net alot of marks once traded for dil and donated.
Under current system
£7.99 1200 Zen
1200 Zen * 500 Dil= 600k dil
600k dil * 1 fleet cred = 600k fleet creds
Under my suggestion
£7.99 1200 Zen
1200 Zen * 500 Dil= 600k dil
600k dil * 5 fleet cred = 3mil fleet creds
So under the new system people who wanted to earn fleet creds easily without farming would be able to make a small purchase of zen and after converting it to dil end up with enough to get plenty of fleet creds to buy what they needed from donating dil.
While at the same time those that do not want to or cannot afford to buy zen can earn fleet creds at a reasonable rate from donating dilithium. This could provide a viable option for spenders and farmers while helping to offset the skewed dil zen market and help solve the problem of fleet projects sitting there unfinished for ages.
So i have been thinking on this and have thought on how rebalancing the rewards could solve alot of these problems by making dilithium and officers more viable for donation. Currently these two sit empty due to the poor ratios.
Poor ratios = costs that nobody has time for or wants to foot ?
I want to buy the lukari boff, as usual only dil and officers are available to fill
Human nature at work ?
This could provide a viable option for spenders and farmers while helping to offset the skewed dil zen market and help solve the problem of fleet projects sitting there unfinished for ages.
Seems like at this point in the game perhaps people just want some easy Fleet Credits ?
Welcome to Fleet life. The current system seems to be breaking down. Given the casual nature of many players it'd be nice if there was a better way to do things but the current system is apparently working as intended.
Dilithium -
Each project put up in one of the Fleets I'm in currently requires 87 dilithium per Fleet mark input for Colony Tier 4 projects given armada and other discounts.
There is no way that newer or casual players can afford or are willing to pay this. They won't usually use cash for Zen to Dil to fill a project. They won't usually have a lot of Admiralty cards and characters they can rotate to do KDF Admiralty for the 40K project Dilithium vouchers.
300K Fleet credits is often used as the amount to basically outfit a ship even though the actual amount for various options can be significantly more. This would require being able to deposit 6000 Fleet marks. Those marks currently have attached Dilithium value of 522,000.
When it comes to Dil they could lower the cost or increase the number of Fleet credits paid but then it wouldn't be as much of a Dilithium sink. But apparently it's no longer a sufficient Dilithium sink. Hmmm.
EC -
Each of the same projects needs 825 EC per FM. The same 6000 FM above would also need 4,950,000 EC. At one point EC was made by selling drops, at least prior to when drops had their value reduced. One thing I've noticed is that even EC seems to be hard to come by these days in projects. Endeavors pay EC but newer and casual players usually seem more occupied by doing missions and working on their reputations.
Doffs -
The way we used to fill doffs is to cycle multiple characters through the Academy doff missions, purchase higher rarity doffs on the exchange and grind them down, and most important of all have members with excess Fleet Credits recycle their credits back into the Fleet by purchasing doffs from their Fleet Starbase for donation into projects. They do require FC to purchase but you get something back. Yes purchasing extra doff roster space is required to hold 100's of common doffs.
Summary -
It may be that people taking part in a casual game expect to casually equip their ships with Fleet gear as well. Unfortunately with human nature being what it is when nobody is backfilling things projects are going to stall as it's only the "free" parts that usually get filled.
Suggestions -
There's only been two suggestions in this thread that catch my eye. One was to have players submit completed reports that include all inputs (i.e. Fleet marks, dilithium, EC, doffs, xp, etc.) to ensure things are fair. The other was to reduce costs for project inputs but increase costs for Fleet gear. Currently Cryptic has Fleet gear on permanent discount.
Player could also consider petitioning their Fleet leaders and officers to work harder
Or perhaps they could purchase (or grind) the Dilithium needed to get the Fleet credits they need? That base 300K Fleet credits mentioned above would only cost $6.
Or they could spend (or grind) the equivalent of $10 and use the excess Fleet credits to fill doffs to flip projects for others.
Emphasis - Not shooting the messenger here (that would be you) but just adding some numbers, satire, and commentary to what you said.
I don't know what the right answer is, but things don't seem to be working very well right now in a variety of ways.
I think the one thing that gave us the passion to pursue building holdings at one point is something we're not getting now.
It's not even possible to have future holdings that are better balanced to the current game without it.
Fleets have been missing one ingredient since 2017 and now it's affecting other things.
But I sure don't want a repeat of this. It was enough to leave a bad taste in one's mouth.
As painful as the colony was it probably delayed the exchange grind out by a couple years.
Not that anyone wants another colony like holding... frankly I am shocked so many fleets fully leveled it out. I mean my own small fleet has colony both sides and I know it costs some of our guys more $ and all of us more time then it was worth. lol
I think the one thing that gave us the passion to pursue building holdings at one point is something we're not getting now.
It's not even possible to have future holdings that are better balanced to the current game without it.
Fleets have been missing one ingredient since 2017 and now it's affecting other things.
But I sure don't want a repeat of this. It was enough to leave a bad taste in one's mouth.
As painful as the colony was it probably delayed the exchange grind out by a couple years.
Not that anyone wants another colony like holding... frankly I am shocked so many fleets fully leveled it out. I mean my own small fleet has colony both sides and I know it costs some of our guys more $ and all of us more time then it was worth. lol
From what I'm seeing there's a vast number of Colony holdings left virtually abandoned due to the cost. It's no wonder so many casual and new players have trouble getting the Fleet credits they need to outfit their ships.
Unfortunately without further investment into the game we're unlikely to see much of anything let alone new or expanded holdings.
The Dilex was good while it lasted. Fleets did help with that.
Comments
Sure some people grind thousands of zen and buy $200 ship packs with no cost to them... but the ships still cost $200. Cryptic still gets paid. You simply played the game for another player... they paid you with Zen for your farmed Dil.
The problem is really simple... there isn't enough reason for players to buy other players purple rocks right now. Cryptic needs find new ways for players to want purple rocks... they can add things, they can tweak current prices, they can add taxes. People have suggested a ton of options. But what they won't do is just convert all the "Farmers" into a single game style farming mechanic where the game just gives them money for spending time playing. The only reason to farm purple rocks is to SELL them to other players.
The exchange ground out cause the farm supply is higher then the demand. They have tried to curtail the farming in the past... but they can't really do that when every second month they have a recruit event of some form. I mean they can't penalize playing multiple toons when its what they have been pushing for YEARs. The exchange is also not that far gone... as much as we all want to call doom cause you can't convert instantly right now, a week or so out is not so far gone its not fixable.
Zen bought on the Dilithium Exchange is still Zen that has been bought with real money though. So Cryptic STILL gets their money either way. Just because Player A bought Zen and sold it to Player B for Dilithium doesn't mean Cryptic didn't get money one whatever Player B buys with that Zen. And Cryptic has said that a healthy DL economy is good for everyone.
Honestly I think the problem is that people are assuming Cryptic has no interest because of the "lack of progress". The problem with this is that the problem is highly complex. All you have to do is look at the discussions us forumites have had. A lot of solutions thrown around, but ultimately most are either short term band-aids or won't work at all. Cryptic has tried some smaller methods already, everything from re-roll token purchase ability to Vanity Shield sales. Some have worked (shield sale), some haven't (re-roll token). They may very well be working on larger solutions, but they are under no obligation to give us play-by-play commentary on it.
So while yea its frustrating to see what looks like no progress on the problem, that doesn't mean they aren't working on it behind the scenes at all. And its all too easy to give in to that frustration and attack, which starts leading to further belief that unless a solution appears within the next five minutes, Cryptic does not care.
Complex problems, like a player driven economy, take time. And yes while I am frustrated as well... I recognize that there is no magic bullet solution. It may very well take MANY things working together to solve it, both big and small.
All we can really do is hope for something sustainable that will benefit everyone.
While it's true that Cryptic makes money from the dilex, the question is whether they are making MORE (key word) money from a slow to non-functioning dilex.
Because if someone cannot do an INSTANT trade for zen and instead has to wait several WEEKS, they would then be more likely (key word) to just buy the zen to satisfy their desire to INSTANTLY get the thing they want from the zen store.
Again, it's not that they didn't make (some) profit from the dilex, it's that they can potentially make MORE profit due to it's current situation.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Still I'd love to see an Artifact Fleet Holding very much, especially if it offered more Anti-Borg type weapons, or defense or offensive choices, perhaps even a few unique Traits based on all they've learned about the Borg. Might also not just apply to Borg either, given they are quite technologically advanced Collective; can't really call them a Species.
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I've said I'd welcome a new Crafting ITEM to unlock at R&D 20, perhaps that might be something to unlock at a new Holding for Fleet Credit &/or DIL? Yet would require you to be 20 R&D in a given school, and given there are 8 R&D Schools, I could easily see each costing 150,000 Fleet Credit's and perhaps 60,000 DIL for each school? Might expand some crafting options, though they could also do that at Research Station upon upgrading to Tier IV as well though...
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Surely there has to be something they can find to expand a few options for DIL.
Anyways nothing we can do...
Artifact fleet holding... a xenoarchaeology holding. That could actually be fun. Plenty of old next gen episodes with Picard playing hobby archaeologist, all it would need would be a warehouse type room for collecting and storing artifacts. Gear wise they would throw in whatever they want... and call it prototype X dead species gear. Picard ran into artifacts from at least 4 or 5 dead civilizations would be easy enough to please the role players.
I think a mix of cost is fine. I know as you have pointed out that a lot of fleets have the big rollers that pony up most of the Dill... BUT no need to mess with that much. As long as the dill costs are in line with other non colony holdings I think it would be fine.
I do agree completely that the cost on gear should be higher... in fact to make it super low effort for Cryptic.
Why not use such a holding to re release +1 versions of older holding gear. As an example... say Sarthong the system Vash did some unsanctioned digging, why not release black market Sarthong tuned Romulan embassy consoles. They could just copy the Romulan consoles add a +1 mod of something that would make them useful in the current game, and charge 4-5x the dill for them vs standard Romulan consoles. They could do the same for mine consoles. Seems to me they could use the Archeology and Anthropology holding in an ongoing way... adding new tiers now and then with new revisited old gear. The best way to sink Dill is to get people buying and upgrading new gear.
TNG actually had a archaeology and anthropology officer.... so there ya go new BOFFs and or Doffs should be logical enough. Also a perfectly logical holding name Archeology and Anthropology.
TNG also if I remember showed off a archaeology lab on the enterprise. Heck I think there was even an episode where one of the minor racaes had actual Archeology ships. lol
It's completely understandable that full time market manipulators would want to maintain the status quo.
It's all about maximizing their profit.
I'm not just a manipulator... I'm also a member. Of a fleet where my name is at the top of multiple leaderboards. lol I have tons of fleet dill pool stored up from admiralty, I think I could probably finish the first couple tiers of a small holding without even touching real dill.
I do agree that gear costs on new holding stuff should go up... and cryptic should make the gear good enough to ensure people buy it. Releasing K13 type consoles no one wants won't sink any real dill.
What i was thinking is increase the dilithium to 5 fleet creds per dil, and the officers to 1k each.
Under the current system
Say i want to buy the lukari boff, as usual all that is available is dil and doffs
160k dil donation to get the credits via dil. Twenty days worth of dil using one toon or a massive amount of grinding using alts.
Another 40k in buying the officer. Five days worth on one toon or grind alts to get faster.
This is a 25 days/toons worth of dil to get one boff
Under what i suggest
I want to buy the lukari boff, as usual all that is available is dil and doffs
32k dil donation to get the fleet creds. Easily manageable, four days worth of dil or grind on four alts for a day, reasonable cost to reward ratio.
Another 40k in buying the officer. Five days worth on one toon or grind alts to get faster.
This is 9 days/toons worth for one boff
With the values adjusted dilithuim would become vastly more viable as fleet donations due to the increase fleet credit to dil ratio and i believe would lead to more people in fleets filling it instead of a few people shouldering it all or it only getting donated when someone gets tour of duty 10 in klingon admiralty.
Would benefit the market too because a small zen purchase the suggested values would go a long way converted into dil to use for credits.
As it stands now
£7.99 1200 zen
1200*500= 600k dil
600k dil x 1fleet mark=600k fleet creds
With changed value
£7.99 1200 zen
1200*500= 600k dil
600k dil x 5 fleet marks = 3mil fleet creds
People that don't wanna spend could earn 40k fleet creds a day per toon donating dilithuim, and people who didn't want to farm could buy the cheapest zen option sell it on the exchange which would help the current skewed balance.
As i mentioned earlier increasing doffs to 1k each to make them more attractive to fill as they are currently slow ones as well and with the dil reward more attractive they would become less so. They would need buffing up too to avoid them becoming the new everyone ignores and hopes someone else fills it entry.
I believe this would lead to people being more willing to fill all the donation requirements while making dilithium more valuable to trade zen for as it would let people vastly speed up getting fleet boffs, consoles ect, speed up the pace at which projects are filled and completed so that new ones can be started giving people more chances to earn fleet creds, while at the same time preserving viable options for both cash spenders and free players alike.
Under the current system
I want to buy the lukari boff, as usual only dil and officers are available to fill
160k dil for fleet credits. Twenty days worth one one toon or a massive grind using alts
40k for the boff, five days using one toon or grind on 5 alts
25 days/toons worth of dil to get
Under my suggestion
32k dil for the fleet creds, four days on one toon or farm on a few alts
40k for the boff, five days using one toon or grind on 5 alts
9 days/toons worth of dil to get
I believe this would make dilithium more attractive to being filled due to the better payoff, leading to projects being filled and completed faster meaning more being started giving more peeople chances to earn fleet creds. Buffing the officers to 1k each would offset them becoming the new everyone ignores it and hopes someone else does it.
I also believe this would help the market skew in zen to dil trading since under the new ammounts a small purchase would net alot of marks once traded for dil and donated.
Under current system
£7.99 1200 Zen
1200 Zen * 500 Dil= 600k dil
600k dil * 1 fleet cred = 600k fleet creds
Under my suggestion
£7.99 1200 Zen
1200 Zen * 500 Dil= 600k dil
600k dil * 5 fleet cred = 3mil fleet creds
So under the new system people who wanted to earn fleet creds easily without farming would be able to make a small purchase of zen and after converting it to dil end up with enough to get plenty of fleet creds to buy what they needed from donating dil.
While at the same time those that do not want to or cannot afford to buy zen can earn fleet creds at a reasonable rate from donating dilithium. This could provide a viable option for spenders and farmers while helping to offset the skewed dil zen market and help solve the problem of fleet projects sitting there unfinished for ages.
Human nature at work ?
Seems like at this point in the game perhaps people just want some easy Fleet Credits ?
Welcome to Fleet life. The current system seems to be breaking down. Given the casual nature of many players it'd be nice if there was a better way to do things but the current system is apparently working as intended.
Dilithium -
Each project put up in one of the Fleets I'm in currently requires 87 dilithium per Fleet mark input for Colony Tier 4 projects given armada and other discounts.
There is no way that newer or casual players can afford or are willing to pay this. They won't usually use cash for Zen to Dil to fill a project. They won't usually have a lot of Admiralty cards and characters they can rotate to do KDF Admiralty for the 40K project Dilithium vouchers.
300K Fleet credits is often used as the amount to basically outfit a ship even though the actual amount for various options can be significantly more. This would require being able to deposit 6000 Fleet marks. Those marks currently have attached Dilithium value of 522,000.
When it comes to Dil they could lower the cost or increase the number of Fleet credits paid but then it wouldn't be as much of a Dilithium sink. But apparently it's no longer a sufficient Dilithium sink. Hmmm.
EC -
Each of the same projects needs 825 EC per FM. The same 6000 FM above would also need 4,950,000 EC. At one point EC was made by selling drops, at least prior to when drops had their value reduced. One thing I've noticed is that even EC seems to be hard to come by these days in projects. Endeavors pay EC but newer and casual players usually seem more occupied by doing missions and working on their reputations.
Doffs -
The way we used to fill doffs is to cycle multiple characters through the Academy doff missions, purchase higher rarity doffs on the exchange and grind them down, and most important of all have members with excess Fleet Credits recycle their credits back into the Fleet by purchasing doffs from their Fleet Starbase for donation into projects. They do require FC to purchase but you get something back. Yes purchasing extra doff roster space is required to hold 100's of common doffs.
Summary -
It may be that people taking part in a casual game expect to casually equip their ships with Fleet gear as well. Unfortunately with human nature being what it is when nobody is backfilling things projects are going to stall as it's only the "free" parts that usually get filled.
Suggestions -
There's only been two suggestions in this thread that catch my eye. One was to have players submit completed reports that include all inputs (i.e. Fleet marks, dilithium, EC, doffs, xp, etc.) to ensure things are fair. The other was to reduce costs for project inputs but increase costs for Fleet gear. Currently Cryptic has Fleet gear on permanent discount.
Player could also consider petitioning their Fleet leaders and officers to work harder
Or perhaps they could purchase (or grind) the Dilithium needed to get the Fleet credits they need? That base 300K Fleet credits mentioned above would only cost $6.
Or they could spend (or grind) the equivalent of $10 and use the excess Fleet credits to fill doffs to flip projects for others.
Emphasis - Not shooting the messenger here (that would be you) but just adding some numbers, satire, and commentary to what you said.
I don't know what the right answer is, but things don't seem to be working very well right now in a variety of ways.
It's not even possible to have future holdings that are better balanced to the current game without it.
Fleets have been missing one ingredient since 2017 and now it's affecting other things.
But I sure don't want a repeat of this. It was enough to leave a bad taste in one's mouth.
As painful as the colony was it probably delayed the exchange grind out by a couple years.
Not that anyone wants another colony like holding... frankly I am shocked so many fleets fully leveled it out. I mean my own small fleet has colony both sides and I know it costs some of our guys more $ and all of us more time then it was worth. lol
From what I'm seeing there's a vast number of Colony holdings left virtually abandoned due to the cost. It's no wonder so many casual and new players have trouble getting the Fleet credits they need to outfit their ships.
Unfortunately without further investment into the game we're unlikely to see much of anything let alone new or expanded holdings.
The Dilex was good while it lasted. Fleets did help with that.