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Infected Space Elite Cooldown

tek#2957 tek Member Posts: 40 Arc User
Dear Cryptic Devs,

Can you please remove the cooldown from Infected Space Elite? As you know, this is used by DPS chasers to parse DPS. Removing the cooldown would be a huge Quality of Life improvement to this popular endgame pass time. I do not see how this could abused or otherwise hurt the game. It would also allow people running this TFO for DPS to play longer and more often. I have to imagine this group of players always invests tons of money into the game to have all the latest and best items.

Thank you!
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    At this point I think they should just remove most of the cooldowns.

    If someone wants to play ISE all day long, that should be their choice and theirs only. I like Tzenkethi front a lot and I dislike having to wait for that mission half an hour for example.
  • tek#2957 tek Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    Correct. Not sure what the worry is.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,664 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    Would it be OK if they removed the cooldown but also removed the marks, mats and dil rewards after the first run of the day?

    The last thing we need is more dil farming methods.
  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    Would it be OK if they removed the cooldown but also removed the marks, mats and dil rewards after the first run of the day?

    The last thing we need is more dil farming methods.

    Agreed
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  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    tek#2957 wrote: »
    Correct. Not sure what the worry is.

    Probably that players would only ever do the easiest one and nothing else.

    This.

    Normal people would be cast aside while the Deepies constantly shoot up with those big numbers. The exciting choice of ISE, ISE or ISE with maybe a Korfez would likely grate a little.
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,343 Arc User
    Yep do away with the play cooldown, but the rewards still need to be on a timer
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  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    At this point I think they should just remove most of the cooldowns.

    If someone wants to play ISE all day long, that should be their choice and theirs only. I like Tzenkethi front a lot and I dislike having to wait for that mission half an hour for example.

    I love Tzenkethi front. I could play that all day =/ though I do love most of the Borg missions too.

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    At this point I think they should just remove most of the cooldowns.

    If someone wants to play ISE all day long, that should be their choice and theirs only. I like Tzenkethi front a lot and I dislike having to wait for that mission half an hour for example.


    Zactly. I believe it's a passive-aggressive remnant from Dilithium Rising, where it was alleged ppl were going 17x faster than elsewhere. Because, OMG, if ppl are doing something fast, it must mean they then stop playing the game. /sarcasm

    Stop sabotaging your own players. If someone wants to play ISE all day long, that should be their choice and theirs only. And if Cryptic wants them to do other things too, make a more interesting portfolio, instead of artificially locking ppl out of content they wish to do. Tl;dr: make other things ppl want to play.
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  • edited February 2022
    This content has been removed.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,664 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    At this point I think they should just remove most of the cooldowns.

    If someone wants to play ISE all day long, that should be their choice and theirs only. I like Tzenkethi front a lot and I dislike having to wait for that mission half an hour for example.


    Zactly. I believe it's a passive-aggressive remnant from Dilithium Rising, where it was alleged ppl were going 17x faster than elsewhere. Because, OMG, if ppl are doing something fast, it must mean they then stop playing the game. /sarcasm

    Stop sabotaging your own players. If someone wants to play ISE all day long, that should be their choice and theirs only. And if Cryptic wants them to do other things too, make a more interesting portfolio, instead of artificially locking ppl out of content they wish to do. Tl;dr: make other things ppl want to play.

    I'd be okay with the cooldown on TFOs being removed so long as it *ONLY* applies to private queues. I'm *NOT* okay with it for specific TFOs because those players get lumped in together with players running random TFOs. It's not so random when a large portion of the players are telling the system which TFO to launch.

    Good point. Someone working on their eleventy hundred random queues for Klingon Recruitment does not want to get the same 3 queues 10 times in a row.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    At this point I think they should just remove most of the cooldowns.

    If someone wants to play ISE all day long, that should be their choice and theirs only. I like Tzenkethi front a lot and I dislike having to wait for that mission half an hour for example.


    Zactly. I believe it's a passive-aggressive remnant from Dilithium Rising, where it was alleged ppl were going 17x faster than elsewhere. Because, OMG, if ppl are doing something fast, it must mean they then stop playing the game. /sarcasm

    Stop sabotaging your own players. If someone wants to play ISE all day long, that should be their choice and theirs only. And if Cryptic wants them to do other things too, make a more interesting portfolio, instead of artificially locking ppl out of content they wish to do. Tl;dr: make other things ppl want to play.

    I'd be okay with the cooldown on TFOs being removed so long as it *ONLY* applies to private queues. I'm *NOT* okay with it for specific TFOs because those players get lumped in together with players running random TFOs. It's not so random when a large portion of the players are telling the system which TFO to launch.

    I was just thinking about the same thing.

    It may be that the random and chosen TFO's follow different rules though. I've had it happen that I played a certain mission and then joined a random TFO immediately after and I'd end up in the same one.
    If that is indeed the case, then it should be possible to mark the player as already having played a certain mission as part of the random rotation without excluding the possibility to queue up for it the regular way.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    As for the rewards: I'd be fine with max once rewards per half an hour for each mission (so: rewards would follow the cooldowns that are currently in place).

    I honestly don't care about the marks and dilithium. I just want to play the missions I enjoy playing.

    Since I hardly ever join a pre-made (I do PUGs 99.9999etc% of the time), with each mission it's a surprise who you're playing with and how well/fast everything happens. Sometimes enemies are killed too fast, sometimes you end up in a mission where you have to carry the team. For these reasons, I sometimes would like to play a mission multiple times.


    Seriously though, I doubt abuse would be a serious issue. Sure, you might get a lot of rewards by playing CCA or ISA fast, but I doubt there are many players who can do it 1) fast enough so they can complete like ten runs in half an hour AND 2) who really enjoy doing that.

    The drawbacks of removing cooldowns are limited - and their impact may even be countered altogether. The benefits would be significant in that they give players much more freedom.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,596 Community Moderator
    There is no random rotation though. Random just throws you into whatever one needs to be filled up. If you got four people queued up for, say... Bug Hunt, but no one else is direct queuing for it, its gonna sit at only 4 players until they give up. Queuing up for random means you accept you don't know which one you get, and the system will take someone from the random queue and slot them into the earlier mentioned Bug Hunt to pop it. The only caviat is that it will only do so for 5 man queues. It can't do the Competitive or anything that takes more than 5 players.

    At least that is my understanding of how the random queue works. Selecting from all queues (Or at least the ones on the random list because some are excluded) and filling in players in active queues.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    There is no random rotation though. Random just throws you into whatever one needs to be filled up. If you got four people queued up for, say... Bug Hunt, but no one else is direct queuing for it, its gonna sit at only 4 players until they give up. Queuing up for random means you accept you don't know which one you get, and the system will take someone from the random queue and slot them into the earlier mentioned Bug Hunt to pop it. The only caviat is that it will only do so for 5 man queues. It can't do the Competitive or anything that takes more than 5 players.

    At least that is my understanding of how the random queue works. Selecting from all queues (Or at least the ones on the random list because some are excluded) and filling in players in active queues.

    Yes. 'Rotation' doesn't cover it. But the point remains: I believe they can differentiate between player-selected missions and RTFO's.
  • tek#2957 tek Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    @ambassadorkael#6946 some great discussion here. Do you think you could make this happen? :)
  • live8evillive8evil Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    All tfos should have their lockouts removed. The solution to the dil grind issue is quite simple, without going into extremes: every run is 50 dil and 10 mark less of a reward, with a set minumum of lets say 150 dil and 30 marks - not worth grinding and also isn't nothing at all.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,596 Community Moderator
    live8evil wrote: »
    All tfos should have their lockouts removed. The solution to the dil grind issue is quite simple, without going into extremes: every run is 50 dil and 10 mark less of a reward, with a set minumum of lets say 150 dil and 30 marks - not worth grinding and also isn't nothing at all.

    You underestimate the lengths some will go for easy reward. Not only that, scaling down rewards... I don't think any game can do that on repeat runs. And with how old STO is... I wouldn't want to try because it could break something else to even TRY to attempt that. I mean there was a time where they'd fix something random, and the Borg would break. Once we had spheres with SUPER Emergency to Engines. They popped that, they practically went to warp and rocketed across the map.

    On top of that its punishing players for running content. What if they're working on rep projects and need the marks and dilithium for that? Even if they've run everything they can and come up short, they'd have to re-run things.

    I'm sorry but I just don't see that as a viable solution because of the punishment factor. In this case... the current status quo is probably the most viable solution because... we're all used to it and it doesn't punish. And with how quickly any level of Infected can be completed... the current status quo doesn't allow for back to back grinding like you would get by removing the cooldown.

    Now... if we had a way to safely leave a TFO without incurring the lockout in cases of bugged runs... then maybe. Problem is identifying legit bugged runs vs just being a jerk or "protesting" team composition and performance...
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • tek#2957 tek Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    I think a simple solution is to remove cooldowns from private TFOs. That would not cause any issues with the public ones.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,664 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    tek#2957 wrote: »
    I think a simple solution is to remove cooldowns from private TFOs. That would not cause any issues with the public ones.

    Gold farmers would probably multibox and farm 24x7 unless the rewards are nerfed for multiple runs.

    https://youtu.be/0dkkf5NEIo0

  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    tek#2957 wrote: »
    I think a simple solution is to remove cooldowns from private TFOs. That would not cause any issues with the public ones.

    But not everyone likes having to assemble a team.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I don't think any game can do that on repeat runs. And with how old STO is... I wouldn't want to try because it could break something else to even TRY to attempt that.

    I am absolutely sure they could do it, and for proof I submit the fact that STO already does this exact thing.

    The first time you run a Patrol daily, you get 1k Dilithium and a daily mark box. Running additional patrols grants you only a small amount of Dilithium and minimal marks. TFO's already work this way as well, the game can already keep track of your daily rewards, this idea is simply altering some of those numbers and using the existing system that's already in place.

    STO already has the ability to issue higher rewards for your first run with altered rewards on subsequent runs. The infrastructure is already in place and active in the current build.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    The idea that tech doesn't exist to reduce rewards on subsequent plays of any piece of content in any MMO is silly, given such a thing is basic trigger work - I could probably throw something like that together in SC2 within half an hour, and that game is about as far from an MMO as you can get...and I am by no means knowledgable in trigger creation at all, as evidenced by the fact I can't even get a simple tracker for the number of a specific unit present within a given region working.​​
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,596 Community Moderator
    I am absolutely sure they could do it, and for proof I submit the fact that STO already does this exact thing.

    The first time you run a Patrol daily, you get 1k Dilithium and a daily mark box. Running additional patrols grants you only a small amount of Dilithium and minimal marks. TFO's already work this way as well, the game can already keep track of your daily rewards, this idea is simply altering some of those numbers and using the existing system that's already in place.

    STO already has the ability to issue higher rewards for your first run with altered rewards on subsequent runs. The infrastructure is already in place and active in the current build.

    That doesn't scale with each repeat however. Its just a simple checkbox. First run full reward. Check. Next run reduced reward. It doesn't change after that.
    The idea that tech doesn't exist to reduce rewards on subsequent plays of any piece of content in any MMO is silly, given such a thing is basic trigger work - I could probably throw something like that together in SC2 within half an hour, and that game is about as far from an MMO as you can get...and I am by no means knowledgable in trigger creation at all, as evidenced by the fact I can't even get a simple tracker for the number of a specific unit present within a given region working.​​

    And that's with a map editor that is specifically designed to create user content. Not whatever Cryptic works with.

    And to be fair I always found SC1's map editor complex and couldn't really make it work very well. Then again I wasn't that good at making decent maps dating back to frickin' Dark Reign and WarCraft 2.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    That doesn't scale with each repeat however. Its just a simple checkbox. First run full reward. Check. Next run reduced reward. It doesn't change after that.

    It doesn't need to. Just give people the TFO rewards for the first, remove the cooldowns and remove the rewards. That way people can run them over and over if they want. There is no need to over complicate it, set some minimum reward level for repeat runs and have that apply to all runs for the next 24 hours. That makes the cooldown no longer needed.
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  • tenore#0775 tenore Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    At this point in the game's life, they should be wanting people to play as much as possible. It does really help DPS enthusiasts to be able to play one of the major parsing maps without cooldown. I don't think the rewards should be removed, but perhaps ISE and HSE can be played without CD in Private queues.
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