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Why is the new ship a flying toilet seat?

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  • lnbladelnblade Member Posts: 408 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    lnblade wrote: »
    Regarding the 32c ships, I think the main issue that generates the hatred for them is that most are meant to be Starfleet ships but they've almost completely abandoned the established Starfleet aesthetic. If these ships were representative of an alien species instead, one new to the franchise, then we'd probably be seeing more appreciation for them.

    This is something of a double edged sword, no? Were the designers have stayed with tried and true design aesthetics, there most certainly would be people who would complain that design did not progress much over 900 years or that they just do not like the design of the ship in general. Same thing happened with the introduction of the Enterprse D, Voyager, Defiant etc.

    I can understand and appreciate the design staff here wanting to do something different that sets this series apart visually from the rest. Enough time has progressed they can move along from the TNG/DS9/VOY look.
    You're right, but there must be some way to strike a balance between old and familiar and radically new. IMO the Defiant, Saber, and Steamrunner all did a good job of taking the Starfleet aesthetic and playing with it to create new ships that still looked like they belonged in Starfleet. The DSC ships, on the other hand, just seem like the artists went with whatever they thought would look cool. To me, it doesn't seem like they gave any consideration to how Starfleet ship design would evolve over time (much less think about the functionality of how the ships would actually be used by their crews)


    I thought the Wells was pretty well-divorced from TNG aesthetics, and quite a few people really seemed to like that design...I certainly never heard many complaints about it back in the 90s/early 2000s, at least.​​
    I was never really much of a fan of the Wells, either, for mostly the same reasons that I don't like the DCS ships. But the Wells at least looks like a useable ship for its crew and it has a better visual flow to it than most of the DSC ships.
  • iamjmphiamjmph Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    I might like the Eisenberg, I'll have to fly it and look at it up close to determine that.
    Who doesn't want to fly a angry dual-wielding cartoon doggo/shark?
    20211207190122_1.png?raw=1
    20211207191619_1.png?raw=1

    You know, my three year old nephew loves that show...
    celebrate-national-day-with-made-in-singapore-L-bONjdy.png




  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 910 Arc User
    *Looking at that side profile*

    OH Frak!!! Its a giant HAND PHASER!!!
    51842580273_536fe29c8c_z.jpg
    SPACE---The Last and Great Frontier. A 12th-year journey
    Vna res, una mens, unum cor et anima una. Cetera omnia, somnium est.















  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,452 Arc User
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    lnblade wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    lnblade wrote: »
    Regarding the 32c ships, I think the main issue that generates the hatred for them is that most are meant to be Starfleet ships but they've almost completely abandoned the established Starfleet aesthetic. If these ships were representative of an alien species instead, one new to the franchise, then we'd probably be seeing more appreciation for them.

    This is something of a double edged sword, no? Were the designers have stayed with tried and true design aesthetics, there most certainly would be people who would complain that design did not progress much over 900 years or that they just do not like the design of the ship in general. Same thing happened with the introduction of the Enterprse D, Voyager, Defiant etc.

    I can understand and appreciate the design staff here wanting to do something different that sets this series apart visually from the rest. Enough time has progressed they can move along from the TNG/DS9/VOY look.
    You're right, but there must be some way to strike a balance between old and familiar and radically new. IMO the Defiant, Saber, and Steamrunner all did a good job of taking the Starfleet aesthetic and playing with it to create new ships that still looked like they belonged in Starfleet. The DSC ships, on the other hand, just seem like the artists went with whatever they thought would look cool. To me, it doesn't seem like they gave any consideration to how Starfleet ship design would evolve over time (much less think about the functionality of how the ships would actually be used by their crews)


    I thought the Wells was pretty well-divorced from TNG aesthetics, and quite a few people really seemed to like that design...I certainly never heard many complaints about it back in the 90s/early 2000s, at least.​​
    I was never really much of a fan of the Wells, either, for mostly the same reasons that I don't like the DCS ships. But the Wells at least looks like a useable ship for its crew and it has a better visual flow to it than most of the DSC ships.


    The point of functionality is really the biggest one, I think. It is why detached nacelles are so ridiculous to many people, because it takes far more energy to keep them 'attached' without a simple strut, and there are serious problems when you have power failures.

    But on a broader sense, you just look at these ships and wonder why. Why is the Saturn a ring? Why in the world would you waste so much space like that? Why is the Eisenberg shaped the way it is? What is the point of the giant rear boom? None of them seem practical at all.

    The Wells, for its part, looks like a sleek fighter jet just on its own. Its outside the aesthetic of Starfleet, but it looks practical and plausible just on its own. Its also a time ship, not ye olde bog standard warp capable ship, so you can imagine it has different design requirements. I think that is why it works and is accepted.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,961 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    I don't even understand why Starfleet still has visible nacelles in the 32nd century...they have to at least be somewhere within the level the Borg and/or Voth were in the late-24th century, and none of their ships had external nacelles at all in the case of the Borg, and as for the Voth City Ship...I think that did have some, but they were integrated directly into the ship, like the Defiant's were.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
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    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 3,302 Arc User
    lnblade wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    lnblade wrote: »
    Regarding the 32c ships, I think the main issue that generates the hatred for them is that most are meant to be Starfleet ships but they've almost completely abandoned the established Starfleet aesthetic. If these ships were representative of an alien species instead, one new to the franchise, then we'd probably be seeing more appreciation for them.

    This is something of a double edged sword, no? Were the designers have stayed with tried and true design aesthetics, there most certainly would be people who would complain that design did not progress much over 900 years or that they just do not like the design of the ship in general. Same thing happened with the introduction of the Enterprse D, Voyager, Defiant etc.

    I can understand and appreciate the design staff here wanting to do something different that sets this series apart visually from the rest. Enough time has progressed they can move along from the TNG/DS9/VOY look.
    You're right, but there must be some way to strike a balance between old and familiar and radically new. IMO the Defiant, Saber, and Steamrunner all did a good job of taking the Starfleet aesthetic and playing with it to create new ships that still looked like they belonged in Starfleet. The DSC ships, on the other hand, just seem like the artists went with whatever they thought would look cool. To me, it doesn't seem like they gave any consideration to how Starfleet ship design would evolve over time (much less think about the functionality of how the ships would actually be used by their crews)


    I thought the Wells was pretty well-divorced from TNG aesthetics, and quite a few people really seemed to like that design...I certainly never heard many complaints about it back in the 90s/early 2000s, at least.​​
    I was never really much of a fan of the Wells, either, for mostly the same reasons that I don't like the DCS ships. But the Wells at least looks like a useable ship for its crew and it has a better visual flow to it than most of the DSC ships.


    The point of functionality is really the biggest one, I think. It is why detached nacelles are so ridiculous to many people, because it takes far more energy to keep them 'attached' without a simple strut, and there are serious problems when you have power failures.

    But on a broader sense, you just look at these ships and wonder why. Why is the Saturn a ring? Why in the world would you waste so much space like that? Why is the Eisenberg shaped the way it is? What is the point of the giant rear boom? None of them seem practical at all.

    The Wells, for its part, looks like a sleek fighter jet just on its own. Its outside the aesthetic of Starfleet, but it looks practical and plausible just on its own. Its also a time ship, not ye olde bog standard warp capable ship, so you can imagine it has different design requirements. I think that is why it works and is accepted.

    While I don't necessarily disagree with the opinion that some of the new ships are oddly shaped, some of the points you raise could also very well be made regarding some older canon designs.

    Look at the Romulan ships especially. A D'Deridex isn't the most efficient design one could think of either, if we're talking about holes and especially holes vs. actual hull ratio's. The same could be said about the Scimitar and it's highly curved wings - imagine having to design the interior to create some actual usable space in those things.

    Ships like the Presidio also have the same weird ending at the back of the ship. I didn't hear many people complaining about that either. Same with the Baltim raider - it's not that different from the Eisenberg and in fact, it was one of the first ships I thought of when I saw the new one.


    Which also brings me to detached parts - there wasn't nearly as much discussion on the Iconian ships having detached parts. And the Iconians are still considered one of the, if not the single most advanced species in STO (at least of those that play a significant part in the story, so ignoring beings like Q). The idea that it can't work or would be less logical than having solid materials holding everything together isn't very convicing when one of the most advanced species thought it could and was.


    And sure, we used the interruption of the Iconians' energy fields to defeat them on at least one occasion, but we only managed to do so with a lot of effort, luck, co-ordination and a captain wearing plot armour (namely, the player character).

    Not to mention that there are many examples in canon, as I've stated before, that show that energy-based defenses are actually - despite having many weaknesses indeed - relied upon a lot more than trusting that solid materials won't fall apart when high energy beams and the like are fired at them. (Think Generations, the ship was doomed due to a minor technical issue after its shields went down and it got hit, the fact that there are tactical officers whose sole job at times seems to be stating the current shield percentage and basically the whole fate of the Enterprise E in First Contact.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,961 Arc User
    Given the wings on the Scimitar are basically just a conduit for the thalaron emitters, there doesn't need to be much usable space in them - just the conduits for the radiation and Jeffries tubes for getting to them to be able to repair them when needed.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • crm14916crm14916 Member Posts: 1,439 Arc User
    You know, Doc Brown discovered the Flux Capacitor slipping off the toilet and hitting his head on the edge of the sink… Maybe the Disco designers tried the same tactic…

    lol…

    CM
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
  • livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    gQytlm7.jpg
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,133 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    (response to redacted post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    meh

  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,326 Community Moderator
    yeah this has gone on long enough /closed
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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This discussion has been closed.