I don't get it, to be honest. I mean yeah, these ships are a bit daft looking. I get that. But is the hate directed at them because they're Starfleet ships?
I mean, STO has presented us with some ships that are pretty daft looking too:
Easy, Star Fleet ships are loved...the random alien of the week ships are just filler. They can look like appliances, and toiletries, and people wouldn't bat an eyelash. But mess with the wonderful ships of the Star Fleet...blasphemy I say!
I don't get it, to be honest. I mean yeah, these ships are a bit daft looking. I get that. But is the hate directed at them because they're Starfleet ships?
I mean, STO has presented us with some ships that are pretty daft looking too:
Easy, Star Fleet ships are loved...the random alien of the week ships are just filler. They can look like appliances, and toiletries, and people wouldn't bat an eyelash. But mess with the wonderful ships of the Star Fleet...blasphemy I say!
In Voyager, they would reuse a Starfleet fighter, the Aeroshuttle and that cone-fronted ship with the two prongs/barbs at the front endlessly and just with different colours. They were working to a budget and for a one-time only alien, it just made sense to reuse the models they had.
They did that too with the Aeon's bridge. It was the Aeon, the alien Seven thought "TRIBBLE" her, when Kes returned, etc. They didn't even redress that though.
I don't get it, to be honest. I mean yeah, these ships are a bit daft looking. I get that. But is the hate directed at them because they're Starfleet ships?
I mean, STO has presented us with some ships that are pretty daft looking too:
No comment:
Oh look - floating parts detached from the main ship:
The Breen ships
The Dewan Pilot Escorts
Lethian pilot escorts
These oddities not only get a free pass, but they're also pretty well regarded in some cases. And, to my eye at least, the 32c ships are no worse than the mentioned ships. So why are those stupid-shaped STO ships acceptable but the 32c ships have to be berated at every opportunity?
shot in the dark but maybe because no one is pretending those odd ship aren't odd looking or that not liking them is a sign of being satan. or maybe because your view of these may or may not be common.
cause thats the thing about opinions you only decide yours, everyone else decides theirs which may, and I understand these days this is shocking, genuinely differ from yours. not because they are evil but because they feel different then you. the thought crime nonsense of daring to not like the new things is dumb and turns people off designs they otherwise just wouldn't pay attention to. see the reaction to older silly designs. never mind strange alien ship being strange is a different thing from pretending strange not alien ship isn't.
personally I'm not seeing much love for the 32c ships from the defenders ether. just hate for people who don't like discovery and don't even start any nonsense "they can't because evil haters exist." we both know that doesn't stop peole from gushing about "unpopular" ships.
You missed my point.
Fact is, regardless of how odd those older STO ships I referred to may look to some, they never received the level of hatred that the 32c ships get, nor were numerous threads made to bemoan them. I have no feelings about either the odd looking STO ships or the 32c ships myself; neither are of sufficient interest to me that I own the ones I don't particularly like the look of.
Them being Starfleet ships absolutely is a big part of it. There is an iconic look with established in universe design rules to Starfleet ships and because of that even the Defiant remains a hard sell for many people.
As for the childish insults other posters are making. Get over it. People don't have to like what you like. Of all the back and forth discussions about ST: Discovery I've seen, the lions share of prejudice and disrespect has come from one side and one side only, and it wasn't the detractors, which is again on display in this thread.
So the multiple threads with hundreds of posts here and reddit filled with toilet humor is somehow respectful of the developers and fans of Discovery? Interesting perspective.
What does criticizing or ridiculing the ships have to do with the devs or fans of the show? Answer: Nothing whatsoever. It has to do with the ship designs. Stop conflating things.
I was seriously excited for a new show, devastated by the released artwork designs for Discovery itself and mortified by the pilot. I've tried, I've really tried, but Burnham is the most unlikable character in Star Trek I've ever known and it's the Burnham Show.
This.
I was so excited to see a new Star Trek. Then I watched the only FREE (that didn't involve giving anyone my credit card number for "when the trial ends") episode and just.... Well that's the only episode I've seen.
It was such a disappointment to me, that I gave up. What I've read about it from forum posters, the Discovery content in STO and Memory Alpha has just reinforced my original opinion.
But that's me. I've got no problem with other's liking it. I do have an issue with being called degrading names for not liking the show, but... meh.
As for the ship design as the person who first replied to the post I quoted questioned?
I find I've disliked most of the Discovery Ship aesthetics, but at least the pre-TOS(edit->)FED ships stuck to the theme established in the 60's that has lasted(with few exceptions) until season 3 of discovery. The 32c FED and UEDF ship designs have mostly (Kirk and Janeway are ok) irked me. The Ship in question(saturn i think?) did make me smile, but only because I was like, "Huh, a Chakram?" , And then the console(i think) is something-chakram something(sorry I'm a bit lazy)...
Also, I mean the player base has chosen some weird designs(Dorito,Frito and Tostito ships, The Submarine space ship), but those and other strange designs get less bad press(i guess) because they are Alien and not based on a faction with pre-established design theme....
Have you seen a pet that makes consoles out of this ship? It is five kilometers in diameter. Another insanely huge visual effect for the console. The game desperately lacks the ability to turn off visual effects, if more people have nonsense like neutronic eddy, plasma storm, beacon of Blindness etc. so it can't be played (I can't play without watching like Auggie).
I don't get it, to be honest. I mean yeah, these ships are a bit daft looking. I get that. But is the hate directed at them because they're Starfleet ships?
I mean, STO has presented us with some ships that are pretty daft looking too:
No comment:
Oh look - floating parts detached from the main ship:
The Breen ships
The Dewan Pilot Escorts
Lethian pilot escorts
These oddities not only get a free pass, but they're also pretty well regarded in some cases. And, to my eye at least, the 32c ships are no worse than the mentioned ships. So why are those stupid-shaped STO ships acceptable but the 32c ships have to be berated at every opportunity?
shot in the dark but maybe because no one is pretending those odd ship aren't odd looking or that not liking them is a sign of being satan. or maybe because your view of these may or may not be common.
cause thats the thing about opinions you only decide yours, everyone else decides theirs which may, and I understand these days this is shocking, genuinely differ from yours. not because they are evil but because they feel different then you. the thought crime nonsense of daring to not like the new things is dumb and turns people off designs they otherwise just wouldn't pay attention to. see the reaction to older silly designs. never mind strange alien ship being strange is a different thing from pretending strange not alien ship isn't.
personally I'm not seeing much love for the 32c ships from the defenders ether. just hate for people who don't like discovery and don't even start any nonsense "they can't because evil haters exist." we both know that doesn't stop peole from gushing about "unpopular" ships.
You missed my point.
Fact is, regardless of how odd those older STO ships I referred to may look to some, they never received the level of hatred that the 32c ships get, nor were numerous threads made to bemoan them. I have no feelings about either the odd looking STO ships or the 32c ships myself; neither are of sufficient interest to me that I own the ones I don't particularly like the look of.
Them being Starfleet ships absolutely is a big part of it. There is an iconic look with established in universe design rules to Starfleet ships and because of that even the Defiant remains a hard sell for many people.
As for the childish insults other posters are making. Get over it. People don't have to like what you like. Of all the back and forth discussions about ST: Discovery I've seen, the lions share of prejudice and disrespect has come from one side and one side only, and it wasn't the detractors, which is again on display in this thread.
So the multiple threads with hundreds of posts here and reddit filled with toilet humor is somehow respectful of the developers and fans of Discovery? Interesting perspective.
What does criticizing or ridiculing the ships have to do with the devs or fans of the show? Answer: Nothing whatsoever. It has to do with the ship designs. Stop conflating things.
I'm sorry that you can't see how wall's of text that's nothing but toilet jokes is disrepectful. I suspect that you do know that you're just being disingenuous. I know that if I was one the hard-working people that designed and worked on getting these ships into the game I'd be curled up in a ball somewhere, assuming I lurked these forums or reddit. Which I'm sure they do, they don't live in a bubble.
You can have a dislike of a ship design and present it respectfully. I typically don't see much of that and if I assumed nothing but teenagers played this game I would understand that. However, I know that a good portion of the playerbase is my age as well and should know better. Whatever happened to "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all?" That is still a thing despite people thinking "I have the right to express my opinion in any way I see fit"
And calling out the underlying current of racism, sexism, and homophobia that is undoubtedly and obviously attached to Discovery isn't conflating anything. It's calling it what it is. If I wasn't exposed to the relentless discovery-hate every single day for the past 4 years in the game I could accept the "oh we are just respectfully disliking this ship design" malarkey.
And calling out the underlying current of racism, sexism, and homophobia that is undoubtedly and obviously attached to Discovery isn't conflating anything. It's calling it what it is. If I wasn't exposed to the relentless discovery-hate every single day for the past 4 years in the game I could accept the "oh we are just respectfully disliking this ship design" malarkey.
Okay, I'm calling Tribble on that. I haven't seen ANY sign of racism, sexism or homophobia from anyone here.
Discovery is shoehorning issues and characters into the show, just to be politically correct. They're not written well, are uninteresting and there solely for the sake of being there. They're not adding anything and are actually terrible examples of different orientations, race and gender.
The way they're doing things is NOT inclusive and I personally find it insulting.
Oh and it's not disrespectful that if you do a reverse image search on one of these 32nd starships, that you do get toilet and teeth results.
And calling out the underlying current of racism, sexism, and homophobia that is undoubtedly and obviously attached to Discovery isn't conflating anything. It's calling it what it is. If I wasn't exposed to the relentless discovery-hate every single day for the past 4 years in the game I could accept the "oh we are just respectfully disliking this ship design" malarkey.
Okay, I'm calling Tribble on that. I haven't seen ANY sign of racism, sexism or homophobia from anyone here.
Discovery is shoehorning issues and characters into the show, just to be politically correct. They're not written well, are uninteresting and there solely for the sake of being there. They're not adding anything and are actually terrible examples of different orientations, race and gender.
The way they're doing things is NOT inclusive and I personally find it insulting.
Oh and it's not disrespectful that if you do a reverse image search on one of these 32nd starships, that you do get toilet and teeth results.
What you call "shoehorning" characters into the show I call being representative of real life. Shoehorning was when all the lead characters were straight white males. Which I happen to be one which makes this all the more ironic. Star Trek was "politically correct" from day one so no change there, you just don't like the makeup of the cast.
Literally the VERY FIRST comment I'm subjected to upon entering the game is this:
"Bloody hell, we finally stop getting those ugly Breen ships and what do we get. an TRIBBLE 32nd %$#% century pos ship. Eisenberg deserved something better"
If this is the kind of respectful commentary I'm going to be subjected to for the next month I doubt I'm going to last that long. An excellent example of why people are migrating to single player games.
I don't get it, to be honest. I mean yeah, these ships are a bit daft looking. I get that. But is the hate directed at them because they're Starfleet ships?
I mean, STO has presented us with some ships that are pretty daft looking too:
No comment:
Oh look - floating parts detached from the main ship:
The Breen ships
The Dewan Pilot Escorts
Lethian pilot escorts
These oddities not only get a free pass, but they're also pretty well regarded in some cases. And, to my eye at least, the 32c ships are no worse than the mentioned ships. So why are those stupid-shaped STO ships acceptable but the 32c ships have to be berated at every opportunity?
shot in the dark but maybe because no one is pretending those odd ship aren't odd looking or that not liking them is a sign of being satan. or maybe because your view of these may or may not be common.
cause thats the thing about opinions you only decide yours, everyone else decides theirs which may, and I understand these days this is shocking, genuinely differ from yours. not because they are evil but because they feel different then you. the thought crime nonsense of daring to not like the new things is dumb and turns people off designs they otherwise just wouldn't pay attention to. see the reaction to older silly designs. never mind strange alien ship being strange is a different thing from pretending strange not alien ship isn't.
personally I'm not seeing much love for the 32c ships from the defenders ether. just hate for people who don't like discovery and don't even start any nonsense "they can't because evil haters exist." we both know that doesn't stop peole from gushing about "unpopular" ships.
You missed my point.
Fact is, regardless of how odd those older STO ships I referred to may look to some, they never received the level of hatred that the 32c ships get, nor were numerous threads made to bemoan them. I have no feelings about either the odd looking STO ships or the 32c ships myself; neither are of sufficient interest to me that I own the ones I don't particularly like the look of.
Them being Starfleet ships absolutely is a big part of it. There is an iconic look with established in universe design rules to Starfleet ships and because of that even the Defiant remains a hard sell for many people.
As for the childish insults other posters are making. Get over it. People don't have to like what you like. Of all the back and forth discussions about ST: Discovery I've seen, the lions share of prejudice and disrespect has come from one side and one side only, and it wasn't the detractors, which is again on display in this thread.
So the multiple threads with hundreds of posts here and reddit filled with toilet humor is somehow respectful of the developers and fans of Discovery? Interesting perspective.
What does criticizing or ridiculing the ships have to do with the devs or fans of the show? Answer: Nothing whatsoever. It has to do with the ship designs. Stop conflating things.
I'm sorry that you can't see how wall's of text that's nothing but toilet jokes is disrepectful. I suspect that you do know that you're just being disingenuous. I know that if I was one the hard-working people that designed and worked on getting these ships into the game I'd be curled up in a ball somewhere, assuming I lurked these forums or reddit. Which I'm sure they do, they don't live in a bubble.
You can have a dislike of a ship design and present it respectfully. I typically don't see much of that and if I assumed nothing but teenagers played this game I would understand that. However, I know that a good portion of the playerbase is my age as well and should know better. Whatever happened to "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all?" That is still a thing despite people thinking "I have the right to express my opinion in any way I see fit"
And calling out the underlying current of racism, sexism, and homophobia that is undoubtedly and obviously attached to Discovery isn't conflating anything. It's calling it what it is. If I wasn't exposed to the relentless discovery-hate every single day for the past 4 years in the game I could accept the "oh we are just respectfully disliking this ship design" malarkey.
First off, no one at STO designed these ships. You know that, everyone who dislikes the ships knows that, so why are you even suggesting that ridiculing certain designs has anything to do with the devs? Next you're obviously imagining any racism, sexism, etc. because it has nothing to do with poorly written characters and bad ship designs. And even if people did hate Burnham because she's brown, it doesn't change the fact that the show is widely considered to have terrible writing and poor character development. Stop conflating things.
Its frankly ludicrous to even imagine racism as a real problem here, because the people who liked the TNG era, with Geordi likely universally loved, are the same people who could watch Fresh Prince of Bel Air and Family Matters. They saw Eddie Murphy and a young Dave Chappelle in Beverly Hills Cop. They saw Riggs and Murtaugh as partners in the Lethal Weapon Franchise. But the difference is, the black and brown people in those shows and movies were real characters. They were believable and had growth and weren't just there to "represent." Its insulting that "representation" is even a thing, because it reduces people to statistics, and it shows in modern writing. People aren't TRIBBLE or straight, they are people with personalities, families, jobs, likes, dislikes, etc. who happen to be TRIBBLE or straight, yet the garbage coming out of the entertainment industry today seems to think that putting someone's sexuality at the forefront is in some way a good idea.
But back to the topic at hand, no, people should not be silent if they dislike something. Silencing dissent is a very dangerous phenomenon today and must be fought at any cost. And at the most basic level, it doesn't tell companies why people aren't buying their product. I agree, be respectful, but calling things toilets is not disrespectful. Its poking fun at them. If you can't take a joke, you are not an adult. Conflating things also doesn't strengthen any point you might have.
I do see where @kayajay is coming from, in a fashion.
Personally, I applaud Discovery for it's representation of non-binary, trans, l e s b i a n (stupid censor!), et. al. I'm of the opinion that representation matters and I can only imagine how positive it must feel for people who identify as any of the above to see people like themselves on TV.
However, that fact doesn't change the fact that I don't find the way these characters are written to be overly interesting. I like Adira - but the 'wunderkid on a ship full of adults' isn't really anything new and isn't a theme 'I' find particularly interesting.
And they haven't really done anything with Grey, whose entire character is his relationship with Adira - wihch is fine, but they need to do more with him (do they identify this way?) as he (they?) don't really have any real personality outside of the relationship with Adira yet - we need a bit more than just 'smiling and feelings'. I'll concede that this might change now that he has a physical body and I'll remain optimistic on that point. Eitherway, as things stand I feel both characters need more complexity and I hope that is coming.
Agree 100%. However, the positivity these people feel is dampened by the loathing expressed by many at every opportunity that presents itself. I also will always question the motives of people that do that, when if it was me I'd probably say "meh, this show is not for me" and watch something else and not even bother to comment to others about it.
Slightly more on-topic I saw the Eisenberg for the first time in-game and the first words out of my mouth was "awesome." It looks graceful standing still or in flight. Yet I'm expected to believe these 32nd century ships are just hideous. Dislike? Maybe. Seething hatred? No.
Oh, didn't you know? ALL of the 32nd Century ships are required to have a...questionable theme. We've got the toilet seat, the toilet itself, the jockstrap/speculum, the tooth...basically anything the designer could think of whilst he was in the bathroom having a Tribble.
What you call "shoehorning" characters into the show I call being representative of real life. Shoehorning was when all the lead characters were straight white males. Which I happen to be one which makes this all the more ironic. Star Trek was "politically correct" from day one so no change there, you just don't like the makeup of the cast.
It's not representing real life though. It's forced, synthesized like synthale and when it should be like Aldebaran whiskey. You shouldn't feel that you HAVE to have a character, ONLY because they're not a straight white male. I'm sorry, but if the story would work best with just straight white males, then get over it.
I don't care who the cast is made up of, as long as the characters are strong, well-written and the story is goof.
DS9 came the closest to acknowledging TRIBBLE or gender non-binary characters with Dax.
Kira having no issue about why Dax and Lenara Kahn. If it wasn't for "Reassociation", they would have been together. Kira saw no reason why they couldn't resume their marriage...but that was Trill society. It's a massive reason why extracting one of the Symbiont's memories shouldn't be allowed to happen in Discovery. The symbiont is supposed to continue on, not the host. I'll say it again that having a human carry a symbiont successfully just because of love, mitigates what Beverly and Odan had! What, Odan's love for Bev wasn't strong enough that he could survive in Riker?
I personally feel like the symbiont is getting TRIBBLE of it's lifetime with this storyline. A human shouldn't be able to carry a symbiont and the memories and personality of the past host, should stay with it. Look at Dax and Odo/Curzon...they were meant to be together, but through Dax. It wouldn't have been right to have to take Curzon away from Dax...but it's being done in Discovery, just to provide a trans and gender non-binary relationship.
The Trill have been one of the most interesting races in Star Trek...and that's being flushed out of the window for PC.
I don't get it, to be honest. I mean yeah, these ships are a bit daft looking. I get that. But is the hate directed at them because they're Starfleet ships?
I mean, STO has presented us with some ships that are pretty daft looking too:
No comment:
Oh look - floating parts detached from the main ship:
The Breen ships
The Dewan Pilot Escorts
Lethian pilot escorts
These oddities not only get a free pass, but they're also pretty well regarded in some cases. And, to my eye at least, the 32c ships are no worse than the mentioned ships. So why are those stupid-shaped STO ships acceptable but the 32c ships have to be berated at every opportunity?
shot in the dark but maybe because no one is pretending those odd ship aren't odd looking or that not liking them is a sign of being satan. or maybe because your view of these may or may not be common.
cause thats the thing about opinions you only decide yours, everyone else decides theirs which may, and I understand these days this is shocking, genuinely differ from yours. not because they are evil but because they feel different then you. the thought crime nonsense of daring to not like the new things is dumb and turns people off designs they otherwise just wouldn't pay attention to. see the reaction to older silly designs. never mind strange alien ship being strange is a different thing from pretending strange not alien ship isn't.
personally I'm not seeing much love for the 32c ships from the defenders ether. just hate for people who don't like discovery and don't even start any nonsense "they can't because evil haters exist." we both know that doesn't stop peole from gushing about "unpopular" ships.
You missed my point.
Fact is, regardless of how odd those older STO ships I referred to may look to some, they never received the level of hatred that the 32c ships get, nor were numerous threads made to bemoan them. I have no feelings about either the odd looking STO ships or the 32c ships myself; neither are of sufficient interest to me that I own the ones I don't particularly like the look of.
Them being Starfleet ships absolutely is a big part of it. There is an iconic look with established in universe design rules to Starfleet ships and because of that even the Defiant remains a hard sell for many people.
As for the childish insults other posters are making. Get over it. People don't have to like what you like. Of all the back and forth discussions about ST: Discovery I've seen, the lions share of prejudice and disrespect has come from one side and one side only, and it wasn't the detractors, which is again on display in this thread.
So the multiple threads with hundreds of posts here and reddit filled with toilet humor is somehow respectful of the developers and fans of Discovery? Interesting perspective.
What does criticizing or ridiculing the ships have to do with the devs or fans of the show? Answer: Nothing whatsoever. It has to do with the ship designs. Stop conflating things.
I'm sorry that you can't see how wall's of text that's nothing but toilet jokes is disrepectful. I suspect that you do know that you're just being disingenuous. I know that if I was one the hard-working people that designed and worked on getting these ships into the game I'd be curled up in a ball somewhere, assuming I lurked these forums or reddit. Which I'm sure they do, they don't live in a bubble.
You can have a dislike of a ship design and present it respectfully. I typically don't see much of that and if I assumed nothing but teenagers played this game I would understand that. However, I know that a good portion of the playerbase is my age as well and should know better. Whatever happened to "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all?" That is still a thing despite people thinking "I have the right to express my opinion in any way I see fit"
And calling out the underlying current of racism, sexism, and homophobia that is undoubtedly and obviously attached to Discovery isn't conflating anything. It's calling it what it is. If I wasn't exposed to the relentless discovery-hate every single day for the past 4 years in the game I could accept the "oh we are just respectfully disliking this ship design" malarkey.
First off, no one at STO designed these ships. You know that, everyone who dislikes the ships knows that, so why are you even suggesting that ridiculing certain designs has anything to do with the devs? Next you're obviously imagining any racism, sexism, etc. because it has nothing to do with poorly written characters and bad ship designs. And even if people did hate Burnham because she's brown, it doesn't change the fact that the show is widely considered to have terrible writing and poor character development. Stop conflating things.
Its frankly ludicrous to even imagine racism as a real problem here, because the people who liked the TNG era, with Geordi likely universally loved, are the same people who could watch Fresh Prince of Bel Air and Family Matters. They saw Eddie Murphy and a young Dave Chappelle in Beverly Hills Cop. They saw Riggs and Murtaugh as partners in the Lethal Weapon Franchise. But the difference is, the black and brown people in those shows and movies were real characters. They were believable and had growth and weren't just there to "represent." Its insulting that "representation" is even a thing, because it reduces people to statistics, and it shows in modern writing. People aren't TRIBBLE or straight, they are people with personalities, families, jobs, likes, dislikes, etc. who happen to be TRIBBLE or straight, yet the garbage coming out of the entertainment industry today seems to think that putting someone's sexuality at the forefront is in some way a good idea.
But back to the topic at hand, no, people should not be silent if they dislike something. Silencing dissent is a very dangerous phenomenon today and must be fought at any cost. And at the most basic level, it doesn't tell companies why people aren't buying their product. I agree, be respectful, but calling things toilets is not disrespectful. Its poking fun at them. If you can't take a joke, you are not an adult. Conflating things also doesn't strengthen any point you might have.
Agreed.
I seriously doubt that there are truly a lot of homophobic or racist Trek-fans. But that doesn't mean that every g-a-y (seriously, why is this censored by the filters Cryptic?) character or every character of colour has to be appreciated just because they are that.
Being g-a-y or having a certain skin colour shouldn't matter. That's also why it shouldn't be the most memorable characteristic of a character. Which means one needs other things that make the characters interesting and I agree that it's lacking in Discovery (with Saru, Lorca and Pike being the most notable exceptions).
Not to mention that few Discovery characters of the first two seasons (I haven't watched beyond that yet) are truly likable. Especially the first season only had Culber as a friendly face and a somewhat relaxed person.
______
To get back to the ships: some of them look great. The Kirk class looks good and I like the Saturn class and the flying forest one. The Janeway isn't bad, just not very original. I might like the Eisenberg, I'll have to fly it and look at it up close to determine that.
The hull materials (and 32nd century vanity shields) don't look very good. The Ba'ul and S31 hull effects, both also based on Discovery, look much better in my opinion.
I might like the Eisenberg, I'll have to fly it and look at it up close to determine that.
Who doesn't want to fly a angry dual-wielding cartoon doggo/shark?
The hull materials (and 32nd century vanity shields) don't look very good. The Ba'ul and S31 hull effects, both also based on Discovery, look much better in my opinion.
Ironically, I think the 32nd century vanity shield looks better on non-Starfleet older ships, like the Valkis.
There is no saving the vanilla 32nd century hulls, though. The Janeway is the worst one to me. With all the visible, differently-sized hull plates with various tones, it looks more like it'd be belong on a ship during the era of the USS Franklin.
Even the shiny 32nd century white hull from the concept art looked better.
I seriously doubt that there are truly a lot of homophobic or racist Trek-fans.
Oh there are definitely racist, homophobic, and worse self-professed Star Trek fans. As ham-fisted as some of the morality stories were, there are still people who completely missed the point (hmm... one alien is white on the right and black on the left, and he really hates the alien who is black on the right and white on the left, could this be an allegory for a real life issue? Naaaahhhhhh, blast 'em Kirk!)
Regarding the 32c ships, I think the main issue that generates the hatred for them is that most are meant to be Starfleet ships but they've almost completely abandoned the established Starfleet aesthetic. If these ships were representative of an alien species instead, one new to the franchise, then we'd probably be seeing more appreciation for them.
My working theory is the Disco ship designer spent his early childhood imprisoned in a Plumbing Supply Sweatshop, and it left a lasting impression. And some odd fetishes.
I thought the Wells was pretty well-divorced from TNG aesthetics, and quite a few people really seemed to like that design...I certainly never heard many complaints about it back in the 90s/early 2000s, at least.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I thought the Wells was pretty well-divorced from TNG aesthetics, and quite a few people really seemed to like that design...I certainly never heard many complaints about it back in the 90s/early 2000s, at least.
The Wells class IMO is just a continuation of the design aesthetic we saw introduced with Voyager, that was continued into the Prometheus, with a trend away from saucers into arrowheads.
Regarding the 32c ships, I think the main issue that generates the hatred for them is that most are meant to be Starfleet ships but they've almost completely abandoned the established Starfleet aesthetic. If these ships were representative of an alien species instead, one new to the franchise, then we'd probably be seeing more appreciation for them.
This is something of a double edged sword, no? Were the designers have stayed with tried and true design aesthetics, there most certainly would be people who would complain that design did not progress much over 900 years or that they just do not like the design of the ship in general. Same thing happened with the introduction of the Enterprse D, Voyager, Defiant etc.
I can understand and appreciate the design staff here wanting to do something different that sets this series apart visually from the rest. Enough time has progressed they can move along from the TNG/DS9/VOY look.
You're right, but there must be some way to strike a balance between old and familiar and radically new. IMO the Defiant, Saber, and Steamrunner all did a good job of taking the Starfleet aesthetic and playing with it to create new ships that still looked like they belonged in Starfleet. The DSC ships, on the other hand, just seem like the artists went with whatever they thought would look cool. To me, it doesn't seem like they gave any consideration to how Starfleet ship design would evolve over time (much less think about the functionality of how the ships would actually be used by their crews)
I thought the Wells was pretty well-divorced from TNG aesthetics, and quite a few people really seemed to like that design...I certainly never heard many complaints about it back in the 90s/early 2000s, at least.
I was never really much of a fan of the Wells, either, for mostly the same reasons that I don't like the DCS ships. But the Wells at least looks like a useable ship for its crew and it has a better visual flow to it than most of the DSC ships.
Regarding the 32c ships, I think the main issue that generates the hatred for them is that most are meant to be Starfleet ships but they've almost completely abandoned the established Starfleet aesthetic. If these ships were representative of an alien species instead, one new to the franchise, then we'd probably be seeing more appreciation for them.
This is something of a double edged sword, no? Were the designers have stayed with tried and true design aesthetics, there most certainly would be people who would complain that design did not progress much over 900 years or that they just do not like the design of the ship in general. Same thing happened with the introduction of the Enterprse D, Voyager, Defiant etc.
I can understand and appreciate the design staff here wanting to do something different that sets this series apart visually from the rest. Enough time has progressed they can move along from the TNG/DS9/VOY look.
You're right, but there must be some way to strike a balance between old and familiar and radically new. IMO the Defiant, Saber, and Steamrunner all did a good job of taking the Starfleet aesthetic and playing with it to create new ships that still looked like they belonged in Starfleet. The DSC ships, on the other hand, just seem like the artists went with whatever they thought would look cool. To me, it doesn't seem like they gave any consideration to how Starfleet ship design would evolve over time (much less think about the functionality of how the ships would actually be used by their crews)
I thought the Wells was pretty well-divorced from TNG aesthetics, and quite a few people really seemed to like that design...I certainly never heard many complaints about it back in the 90s/early 2000s, at least.
I was never really much of a fan of the Wells, either, for mostly the same reasons that I don't like the DCS ships. But the Wells at least looks like a useable ship for its crew and it has a better visual flow to it than most of the DSC ships.
The point of functionality is really the biggest one, I think. It is why detached nacelles are so ridiculous to many people, because it takes far more energy to keep them 'attached' without a simple strut, and there are serious problems when you have power failures.
But on a broader sense, you just look at these ships and wonder why. Why is the Saturn a ring? Why in the world would you waste so much space like that? Why is the Eisenberg shaped the way it is? What is the point of the giant rear boom? None of them seem practical at all.
The Wells, for its part, looks like a sleek fighter jet just on its own. Its outside the aesthetic of Starfleet, but it looks practical and plausible just on its own. Its also a time ship, not ye olde bog standard warp capable ship, so you can imagine it has different design requirements. I think that is why it works and is accepted.
I don't even understand why Starfleet still has visible nacelles in the 32nd century...they have to at least be somewhere within the level the Borg and/or Voth were in the late-24th century, and none of their ships had external nacelles at all in the case of the Borg, and as for the Voth City Ship...I think that did have some, but they were integrated directly into the ship, like the Defiant's were.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
AMEN!!!!
In Voyager, they would reuse a Starfleet fighter, the Aeroshuttle and that cone-fronted ship with the two prongs/barbs at the front endlessly and just with different colours. They were working to a budget and for a one-time only alien, it just made sense to reuse the models they had.
They did that too with the Aeon's bridge. It was the Aeon, the alien Seven thought "TRIBBLE" her, when Kes returned, etc. They didn't even redress that though.
What does criticizing or ridiculing the ships have to do with the devs or fans of the show? Answer: Nothing whatsoever. It has to do with the ship designs. Stop conflating things.
I was so excited to see a new Star Trek. Then I watched the only FREE (that didn't involve giving anyone my credit card number for "when the trial ends") episode and just.... Well that's the only episode I've seen.
It was such a disappointment to me, that I gave up. What I've read about it from forum posters, the Discovery content in STO and Memory Alpha has just reinforced my original opinion.
But that's me. I've got no problem with other's liking it. I do have an issue with being called degrading names for not liking the show, but... meh.
As for the ship design as the person who first replied to the post I quoted questioned?
I find I've disliked most of the Discovery Ship aesthetics, but at least the pre-TOS(edit->)FED ships stuck to the theme established in the 60's that has lasted(with few exceptions) until season 3 of discovery. The 32c FED and UEDF ship designs have mostly (Kirk and Janeway are ok) irked me. The Ship in question(saturn i think?) did make me smile, but only because I was like, "Huh, a Chakram?" , And then the console(i think) is something-chakram something(sorry I'm a bit lazy)...
Also, I mean the player base has chosen some weird designs(Dorito,Frito and Tostito ships, The Submarine space ship), but those and other strange designs get less bad press(i guess) because they are Alien and not based on a faction with pre-established design theme....
I've rambled enough though, gonna go find food...
I'm sorry that you can't see how wall's of text that's nothing but toilet jokes is disrepectful. I suspect that you do know that you're just being disingenuous. I know that if I was one the hard-working people that designed and worked on getting these ships into the game I'd be curled up in a ball somewhere, assuming I lurked these forums or reddit. Which I'm sure they do, they don't live in a bubble.
You can have a dislike of a ship design and present it respectfully. I typically don't see much of that and if I assumed nothing but teenagers played this game I would understand that. However, I know that a good portion of the playerbase is my age as well and should know better. Whatever happened to "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all?" That is still a thing despite people thinking "I have the right to express my opinion in any way I see fit"
And calling out the underlying current of racism, sexism, and homophobia that is undoubtedly and obviously attached to Discovery isn't conflating anything. It's calling it what it is. If I wasn't exposed to the relentless discovery-hate every single day for the past 4 years in the game I could accept the "oh we are just respectfully disliking this ship design" malarkey.
Okay, I'm calling Tribble on that. I haven't seen ANY sign of racism, sexism or homophobia from anyone here.
Discovery is shoehorning issues and characters into the show, just to be politically correct. They're not written well, are uninteresting and there solely for the sake of being there. They're not adding anything and are actually terrible examples of different orientations, race and gender.
The way they're doing things is NOT inclusive and I personally find it insulting.
Oh and it's not disrespectful that if you do a reverse image search on one of these 32nd starships, that you do get toilet and teeth results.
What you call "shoehorning" characters into the show I call being representative of real life. Shoehorning was when all the lead characters were straight white males. Which I happen to be one which makes this all the more ironic. Star Trek was "politically correct" from day one so no change there, you just don't like the makeup of the cast.
Literally the VERY FIRST comment I'm subjected to upon entering the game is this:
"Bloody hell, we finally stop getting those ugly Breen ships and what do we get. an TRIBBLE 32nd %$#% century pos ship. Eisenberg deserved something better"
If this is the kind of respectful commentary I'm going to be subjected to for the next month I doubt I'm going to last that long. An excellent example of why people are migrating to single player games.
First off, no one at STO designed these ships. You know that, everyone who dislikes the ships knows that, so why are you even suggesting that ridiculing certain designs has anything to do with the devs? Next you're obviously imagining any racism, sexism, etc. because it has nothing to do with poorly written characters and bad ship designs. And even if people did hate Burnham because she's brown, it doesn't change the fact that the show is widely considered to have terrible writing and poor character development. Stop conflating things.
Its frankly ludicrous to even imagine racism as a real problem here, because the people who liked the TNG era, with Geordi likely universally loved, are the same people who could watch Fresh Prince of Bel Air and Family Matters. They saw Eddie Murphy and a young Dave Chappelle in Beverly Hills Cop. They saw Riggs and Murtaugh as partners in the Lethal Weapon Franchise. But the difference is, the black and brown people in those shows and movies were real characters. They were believable and had growth and weren't just there to "represent." Its insulting that "representation" is even a thing, because it reduces people to statistics, and it shows in modern writing. People aren't TRIBBLE or straight, they are people with personalities, families, jobs, likes, dislikes, etc. who happen to be TRIBBLE or straight, yet the garbage coming out of the entertainment industry today seems to think that putting someone's sexuality at the forefront is in some way a good idea.
But back to the topic at hand, no, people should not be silent if they dislike something. Silencing dissent is a very dangerous phenomenon today and must be fought at any cost. And at the most basic level, it doesn't tell companies why people aren't buying their product. I agree, be respectful, but calling things toilets is not disrespectful. Its poking fun at them. If you can't take a joke, you are not an adult. Conflating things also doesn't strengthen any point you might have.
Agree 100%. However, the positivity these people feel is dampened by the loathing expressed by many at every opportunity that presents itself. I also will always question the motives of people that do that, when if it was me I'd probably say "meh, this show is not for me" and watch something else and not even bother to comment to others about it.
Slightly more on-topic I saw the Eisenberg for the first time in-game and the first words out of my mouth was "awesome." It looks graceful standing still or in flight. Yet I'm expected to believe these 32nd century ships are just hideous. Dislike? Maybe. Seething hatred? No.
This made my day...ROFL.
Thank you for the visual imagery!
Original STO beta tester.
It's not representing real life though. It's forced, synthesized like synthale and when it should be like Aldebaran whiskey. You shouldn't feel that you HAVE to have a character, ONLY because they're not a straight white male. I'm sorry, but if the story would work best with just straight white males, then get over it.
I don't care who the cast is made up of, as long as the characters are strong, well-written and the story is goof.
DS9 came the closest to acknowledging TRIBBLE or gender non-binary characters with Dax.
Kira having no issue about why Dax and Lenara Kahn. If it wasn't for "Reassociation", they would have been together. Kira saw no reason why they couldn't resume their marriage...but that was Trill society. It's a massive reason why extracting one of the Symbiont's memories shouldn't be allowed to happen in Discovery. The symbiont is supposed to continue on, not the host. I'll say it again that having a human carry a symbiont successfully just because of love, mitigates what Beverly and Odan had! What, Odan's love for Bev wasn't strong enough that he could survive in Riker?
I personally feel like the symbiont is getting TRIBBLE of it's lifetime with this storyline. A human shouldn't be able to carry a symbiont and the memories and personality of the past host, should stay with it. Look at Dax and Odo/Curzon...they were meant to be together, but through Dax. It wouldn't have been right to have to take Curzon away from Dax...but it's being done in Discovery, just to provide a trans and gender non-binary relationship.
The Trill have been one of the most interesting races in Star Trek...and that's being flushed out of the window for PC.
Agreed.
I seriously doubt that there are truly a lot of homophobic or racist Trek-fans. But that doesn't mean that every g-a-y (seriously, why is this censored by the filters Cryptic?) character or every character of colour has to be appreciated just because they are that.
Being g-a-y or having a certain skin colour shouldn't matter. That's also why it shouldn't be the most memorable characteristic of a character. Which means one needs other things that make the characters interesting and I agree that it's lacking in Discovery (with Saru, Lorca and Pike being the most notable exceptions).
Not to mention that few Discovery characters of the first two seasons (I haven't watched beyond that yet) are truly likable. Especially the first season only had Culber as a friendly face and a somewhat relaxed person.
______
To get back to the ships: some of them look great. The Kirk class looks good and I like the Saturn class and the flying forest one. The Janeway isn't bad, just not very original. I might like the Eisenberg, I'll have to fly it and look at it up close to determine that.
The hull materials (and 32nd century vanity shields) don't look very good. The Ba'ul and S31 hull effects, both also based on Discovery, look much better in my opinion.
Ironically, I think the 32nd century vanity shield looks better on non-Starfleet older ships, like the Valkis.
There is no saving the vanilla 32nd century hulls, though. The Janeway is the worst one to me. With all the visible, differently-sized hull plates with various tones, it looks more like it'd be belong on a ship during the era of the USS Franklin.
Even the shiny 32nd century white hull from the concept art looked better.
Regarding the 32c ships, I think the main issue that generates the hatred for them is that most are meant to be Starfleet ships but they've almost completely abandoned the established Starfleet aesthetic. If these ships were representative of an alien species instead, one new to the franchise, then we'd probably be seeing more appreciation for them.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I was never really much of a fan of the Wells, either, for mostly the same reasons that I don't like the DCS ships. But the Wells at least looks like a useable ship for its crew and it has a better visual flow to it than most of the DSC ships.
You know, my three year old nephew loves that show...
OH Frak!!! Its a giant HAND PHASER!!!
The point of functionality is really the biggest one, I think. It is why detached nacelles are so ridiculous to many people, because it takes far more energy to keep them 'attached' without a simple strut, and there are serious problems when you have power failures.
But on a broader sense, you just look at these ships and wonder why. Why is the Saturn a ring? Why in the world would you waste so much space like that? Why is the Eisenberg shaped the way it is? What is the point of the giant rear boom? None of them seem practical at all.
The Wells, for its part, looks like a sleek fighter jet just on its own. Its outside the aesthetic of Starfleet, but it looks practical and plausible just on its own. Its also a time ship, not ye olde bog standard warp capable ship, so you can imagine it has different design requirements. I think that is why it works and is accepted.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"