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Does Cryptic discriminate against non-fleet players?

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  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 8,377 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    westmetals wrote: »
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    it's about denying a player who is not in a fleet grant access to an endeavor and the points aka reward that goes with it.

    Sorry, but no, it's about you making a CHOICE to not be in a fleet. There's no cost to do so
    , and there's nothing preventing you from doing so. And even if you had a bad experience... that's the fleet you were in, not the fleet system. Join a different fleet. Or start/buy your own.

    Now, if the endeavour wanted you to do something that can only be done - or can be done more efficiently - by a particular faction... that would be discrimination, since you can't just pick up and change factions (unless you already have a character of that faction). And there in fact IS such an endeavour... but it's not the one you are whining about.
    Deliver Prisoners or Tribbles

    Fed gets Prisoners (you have to turn in 10 to Security... but they only take 2 at a time)
    KDF gets Tribble Carcasses (you have to turn in 10 to Security... and they will take them all at once)


    You are correct, joining a fleet costs nothing the costs come but only at the time after joining a fleet. I have no problem with that because after all there is a return in the form of modules and the like (here one cannot speak of discrimination because it is gradually clear to every player that this is an advantage if one is a fleet member and that whoever does not contribute to the fleet cannot get it either). While this Universal Endeavor does not disadvantage fleet members while it should be the intention that Endeavors should be playable for every player, so yes here a group is favored against a group that is disadvantaged and therefore there is a form of discrimination.

    About the last bolt marked tfo I do not express an opinion because that is not the question, although there could possibly be a discussion about that as well.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

    Not a TFO... a universal endeavour.

    "while it should be the intention that Endeavors should be playable for every player, so yes here a group is favored against a group that is disadvantaged and therefore there is a form of discrimination."

    What you are intentionally ignoring here though, is the fact that your "disadvantaged group" only exists because of their own choice - not inherently (as in my example).

    Endeavours ARE "playable by every player". You made a CHOICE that prevented you from completing this one... it's not game mechanics preventing you.

    You also refused to answer my earlier question. Is the "Win in Dabo at Quark's" endeavour discriminating against players who do not want to go to DS9 since it can only be completed there?

    For that matter, is "Kill Tzenkethi Ships in the Gon'Cra Battlezone" discriminating against people who hate that battlezone?

    I think (as someone else mentioned) you are vastly misusing the term "discrimination" here. Again, because your "disadvantaged group" only exists because of their own choice - not inherently.
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    foxman00 wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    @leemwatson
    "I ask again, what would happen if Cryptic decided to make a tfo that is Only for non fleet members what would be the reaction on the forum?" A moot point. The game also has Fleet ONLY TFO's, which are as ancient as the game.....and you don't see anyone shouting 'discrimination' do you!?

    This is as bad as the FB poster shouting 'discrimination' at Kael on a livestream because there was no 'key' Indian Captains in-game........an absurd accusation for reason that are too obvious...just like this one.


    That there are tfo's that are only accessible to fleets is not what I am talking about. This is about an endeavor and the denial of access to play it and the reward to be obtained in points.

    The ONLY denial of access is caused by yourself, not Cryptic. There is greater and a more focused benefit gained from a TFO you can play with a fleet repeatedly in a day than an endeavour that appears once a month! There's absolutely no discrimination here as you are freely proved the tools and access to every endeavour in the game. Your's and other's choice to not find a nice friendly fleet is not Cryptic's problem.

    Agreed. It is a Personal choice.

    OP, you are seeing the consequences of your personal choices which while may have some benefits for yourself, also has its downsides.

    No one to blame but yourself.

    So, because I didn't join a fleet with that character it is my fault that Cryptic makes an Endeavor that is only accessible to fleet members? Whereas the idea should be that an Endeavor should be accessible to ANY PLAYER.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,057 Arc User
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    While this Universal Endeavor does not disadvantage fleet members while it should be the intention that Endeavors should be playable for every player, so yes here a group is favored against a group that is disadvantaged and therefore there is a form of discrimination.

    No, it is not discriminating in any way. In this case you are at a disadvantage of your own choosing.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    I see no problem here either.

    You want to be 'eligible' for the fleet endeavor, join a fleet. Choosing not to join a fleet does not equal being discriminated against when the fleet endeavor turns up.

    You already said you have one character in a fleet. Were this me, I'd simply do the fleet endeavor on that character. It's how I do endeavors. I choose the best toon for the particular endeavor. When I do them, that is. I haven't done endeavors in a couple weeks while waiting for the next Event Campaign to pop.

    There is no mention of a Fleet Endeavor because it is not so designated but rather as a Universal Endeavor.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 8,377 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    echatty wrote: »
    I see no problem here either.

    You want to be 'eligible' for the fleet endeavor, join a fleet. Choosing not to join a fleet does not equal being discriminated against when the fleet endeavor turns up.

    You already said you have one character in a fleet. Were this me, I'd simply do the fleet endeavor on that character. It's how I do endeavors. I choose the best toon for the particular endeavor. When I do them, that is. I haven't done endeavors in a couple weeks while waiting for the next Event Campaign to pop.

    There is no mention of a Fleet Endeavor because it is not so designated but rather as a Universal Endeavor.

    And players are universally able to join a fleet.

    I'm sorry if you are misunderstanding how fleets work - perhaps you were in one of the fleets that demands a certain amount of monthly contributions, etc. That is NOT inherent to the fleet system. There are lots of fleets out there with no membership requirements. That's bossy players making things up.

    And if you don't want to be in someone else's fleet, fine, make your own, buy one, etcetera.

    There are NO inherent maintenance costs to a fleet merely existing.

    Heck, I would invite you to my fleet right now, except I would not want someone with your attitude. (Our only membership rule is "don't cause unnecessary drama".)
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    I would not say that Cryptic discriminates against non-fleet players. I would say that they have taken an otherwise awesome mechanic and locked it behind fleet membership.

    I really like the fleet holding system as a means of delivering content that grows and evolves around the players as a direct result of player involvement. This should be something that is available to everyone.

    When Legacy of Romulus launched, they should have kept us in te flotilla hub until we BUILT the New Romulus command facility. and the faction switch should not have been flipable until all current command facility projects were completed. That way, the thematic goals of our NRR character, finding a new homeworld and establishing a functioning society there would be met before we go picking a side in an outsider's war which would result in romulans killing other romulans who originally set out with the same goals... Of course, the fleets would still have the Embassy holdings.

    Or when the Dyson Sphere content went in. While fleets would have gotten their spire holding, the entire player base could have gotten Dyson Command facility that would have started out as a gutted, dark and unexplored ruin that we all could have been involved in renovating and restoring, with it gradually being populated by a unique cast of characters unique to Dyson Command, like what we see here:

    They could have been using the fleet holding mechanics to allow all of us to be involved in the world-building process. Instead, they locked that functionality behind a mechanic that not everyone wants to bother with. Fleets can still have their holdings, but the mechanic actually could be given much wider use.

    The new Romulus featured Episode arc used the reputation system, which works just like fleet holdings to roll out its five featured episodes. That's the closest they've come to opening the holding mechanic to everyone, but it still confines it to a personal experience rather than making it something that every single player can share in. Where every single person who would participate can honestly look at the 100% completed hub and say "I helped build that."

    And for the argument of "I don't want to advance a social hub AND my fleet holding on top of it, I'm sure there are ways of making progression through a fleet holding also contribute to the hub as well, and vice-versa. That way one does not have to choose between the two. Advancing one will advance the other. The way that could work is when a slot in a fleet holding is filled whatever resource it needed goes into an active hub slot that needs the same resources, with surpluses going into backstock. When the next project needing that resource opens, the backstock would go towards filling it. In some cases, a project may launch with some slots completely filled. The same would happen when a member of a fleet contributes directly to the hub. whatever resources they contribute to the hub would go to their fleet's holding with the holding's backstock working the same way. The only time one would not help the other is when the other has already achieved 100% completion. The only difference between the two would be for a contribution to the hub to benefit the holding, the contribute must be a member of the fleet a related holding belongs to. Non-fleet members would contribute nothing to fleet holdings.
    There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle...
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,720 Arc User
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    westmetals wrote: »
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    @leemwatson
    "I ask again, what would happen if Cryptic decided to make a tfo that is Only for non fleet members what would be the reaction on the forum?" A moot point. The game also has Fleet ONLY TFO's, which are as ancient as the game.....and you don't see anyone shouting 'discrimination' do you!?

    This is as bad as the FB poster shouting 'discrimination' at Kael on a livestream because there was no 'key' Indian Captains in-game........an absurd accusation for reason that are too obvious...just like this one.


    That there are tfo's that are only accessible to fleets is not what I am talking about. This is about an endeavor and the denial of access to play it and the reward to be obtained in points.

    Except you are completely ignoring, and in fact arguing against, the fact that you have the ability to resolve the access issue (by joining a fleet)... you are just choosing not to.

    You also can't "Win GPL in Dabo at Quark's" if you refuse to go to DS9. Is that also discrimination?

    Whether or not to go to DS9 for Win GPL endeavor but to another place cannot count as discrimination, even if one reverses the question by not going to Drozana. Here one chooses to take the longest or the shortest path, on another account of mine I can even do it on my ship and again there is no discrimination because there is still a possibility to perform the endeavor.

    The poster was talking about the global endeavor "Win 500 GPL at Quark's" Which will only work if you go to Quarks. All other "Win x GPL" will work at any other dabo location.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,566 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    STO doesn't discriminate any more than any other MMO with guilds. There's ALWAYS something for people who are in a guild.

    This.

    Just like there's always something for people who do 5-man dungeons/TFOs/etc. Or people who do 20-man raids. Or... etc.

    As someone who plays 99% solo, and who rarely joins guilds... eh, it's just something to live with. It's my choice which content to play or not play. And there are consequences for that choice. /shrug


    (I did eventually join an "antisocial people anonymous" fleet with ~4 of my characters, to get access to some of the fleet-only outfit options. I've contributed to building stuff, but never did anything else with them.)
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    westmetals wrote: »
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    it's about denying a player who is not in a fleet grant access to an endeavor and the points aka reward that goes with it.

    Sorry, but no, it's about you making a CHOICE to not be in a fleet. There's no cost to do so
    , and there's nothing preventing you from doing so. And even if you had a bad experience... that's the fleet you were in, not the fleet system. Join a different fleet. Or start/buy your own.

    Now, if the endeavour wanted you to do something that can only be done - or can be done more efficiently - by a particular faction... that would be discrimination, since you can't just pick up and change factions (unless you already have a character of that faction). And there in fact IS such an endeavour... but it's not the one you are whining about.
    Deliver Prisoners or Tribbles

    Fed gets Prisoners (you have to turn in 10 to Security... but they only take 2 at a time)
    KDF gets Tribble Carcasses (you have to turn in 10 to Security... and they will take them all at once)


    You are correct, joining a fleet costs nothing the costs come but only at the time after joining a fleet. I have no problem with that because after all there is a return in the form of modules and the like (here one cannot speak of discrimination because it is gradually clear to every player that this is an advantage if one is a fleet member and that whoever does not contribute to the fleet cannot get it either). While this Universal Endeavor does not disadvantage fleet members while it should be the intention that Endeavors should be playable for every player, so yes here a group is favored against a group that is disadvantaged and therefore there is a form of discrimination.

    About the last bolt marked tfo I do not express an opinion because that is not the question, although there could possibly be a discussion about that as well.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

    Not a TFO... a universal endeavour.

    "while it should be the intention that Endeavors should be playable for every player, so yes here a group is favored against a group that is disadvantaged and therefore there is a form of discrimination."

    What you are intentionally ignoring here though, is the fact that your "disadvantaged group" only exists because of their own choice - not inherently (as in my example).

    Endeavours ARE "playable by every player". You made a CHOICE that prevented you from completing this one... it's not game mechanics preventing you.

    You also refused to answer my earlier question. Is the "Win in Dabo at Quark's" endeavour discriminating against players who do not want to go to DS9 since it can only be completed there?

    For that matter, is "Kill Tzenkethi Ships in the Gon'Cra Battlezone" discriminating against people who hate that battlezone?

    I think (as someone else mentioned) you are vastly misusing the term "discrimination" here. Again, because your "disadvantaged group" only exists because of their own choice - not inherently.

    Before responding to responses, I would like to note that it is apparently not possible or not wanted that critical questions about certain or mean-spirited or unjustified comments about any kind of discrimination are welcome, each time things are added that have nothing to do with the starting question or comment. And it's starting to feel personal the way some of the responses are. But let's stick to the responses, here we go.

    You mention it yourself that the intention is that every endeavor is accessible to ANY player, true or false(?), and therein lies the very sensitivity "that accessibility is precisely NOT it". If it had been mentioned that it was a fleet endeavor I would have no problem with it, but it is NOT mentioned. So the assumption is that the endeavor is accessible to everyone.

    All the rest about tfo's or other endeavors have nothing to do with the original question and is just circling the pot to avoid having to address the question that was started. But just to answer the Dabo thing you state anyway there was no mention in the original post that it was only about DS9 Gone, but that until there I will answer the new question. No this is not discrimination in this case as the player chooses not to travel that distance. Why is this not discrimination? Because that endeavor is perfectly accessible to everyone as it is essentially meant to be, all that needs to be done is to go to DS9 and whether that is slow or fast doesn't matter.

    Kill Tzenkethi Ships in the Gon'Cra Battlezone , is not discrimination because you choose to hate them but just because one hates them does not mean that one cannot or should not do that endeavor if one is in no fleet. This is a real choice to not go or to go, anyone can do that member of a fleet or not which is therefore not in line with the original question.

    It is easy to say that there is or would be abuse of the term discrimination, which I think are words of people who cannot bear to have such questions and things asked and thus are critical comments. I also sometimes have things or comments that get in the way of my opinion but I then try to find a correct answer and possibly adjust my opinion and bring it in line with the solution found.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,240 Arc User
    The only discriminating endeavor I can think of is the elite "kill X Gorn on Nimbus III".

    That one is highly discriminatory towards people's sanity.
    #TASforSTO
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,057 Arc User
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    You mention it yourself that the intention is that every endeavor is accessible to ANY player, true or false(?), and therein lies the very sensitivity "that accessibility is precisely NOT it". If it had been mentioned that it was a fleet endeavor I would have no problem with it, but it is NOT mentioned. So the assumption is that the endeavor is accessible to everyone.

    There are no assumptions about the endeavor. All players can be members of a fleet. If they choose not to be, that decision is based squarely on those players. There is nothing preventing anyone from being a member of a fleet.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • tm706tm706 Member Posts: 330 Arc User
    By your own admission, you have a character in a fleet and therefore the "content" you wish to play (an endeavor) IS available to you. Since the reward boxes are bound to account and the xp/perks from endeavors are an account wide bonus/feature, no content or rewards are denied to your characters who aren't in fleets. Most (good) fleets don't demand arbitrary weekly contributions/donations. The ones that do, don't require your presence either. Many fleets are more than happy to accept a member who's looking to contribute their time/interactions just as much as one with a bag of Dil. Endeavors are used to encourage certain activities in the player base NOT punish those who find some of them annoying or inaccessible. FWFI, if you are a PC player and need or want a fleet in which you can donate and leave when this endeavor shows up, Feel free to seek me out in game. I'll be happy to help.
    Coffee is life.

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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,820 Arc User
    If I equip only beams, the Cannon Scatter Volley skill stops buffing my damage. Am I "disadvantaged" and "discriminated against" because Cryptic won't buff my damage?

    If I have only Phasers equipped and the endeavor is to inflict Disruptor damage, am I "discriminated against" because I can't complete the endeavor unless I choose to equip Disruptors?

    No.
  • nccmarknccmark Member Posts: 1,037 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    nommo#5819 wrote: »

    Overall, I feel like this is a nothing-burger since Endeavors are not per character but per account. Take your "fleet of free characters" & choose one that isn't in a fleet, or is in a fleet, to complete so said Endeavor & move-on.

    That is not a solution to the question posed.


    Questions get answers, not solutions. You asked a YES/NO question, and you got answers.
    And since most answers are NO, the consensus is that there is no problem, hence, no solution is required.

    Everything you have complained about is based on your choices.
    You are not discriminated against, you simply chose not to do A in order to earn B.
    That is a requirement of event rewards, episode rewards, so many things.
    If you want B, complete A.
    If not, stop complaining. You are not a victim of anything. You chose not to work for a reward that other players have decided to work toward/earn/obtain.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,258 Arc User
    I'm surprised this is still going.

    Player playing a multi player game doesn't want to do multi player things. Ok don't. I'm not seeing the issue. If you don't want to do earn community rewards don't. People skip many of these things. No one is complaining about being forced to do group TFO stuff.... I mean I want to play 100% solo why must I que 3 Iconian STFs today. I don't like ground why am I asked to do X dmg on the ground or the reverse.

    The entire point of the Endeavor system was to reward you for playing the game the developers develop. You don't normally do X or Y well here is a little reward to give it a try today. Yes if someone hasn't joined a fleet/guild what have you player group in a Multi player game... perhaps they should give that part of the game a try.

    Sensational title, I assume due to translation aside. I think basically everyone has said the same thing to the OP. Its a small rewards system to sample the game... play what you want and if you don't want to finish everyone every day don't. No big thing.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,720 Arc User
    I think the OP is being deliberately obtuse or they are very stubborn about this one Universal Endeavor. They have a character in a fleet, therefore that endeavor is not locked out for them.

    That endeavor is also stupid easy to complete. Just find a fleet holding that needs more than 10k dil. I do it like that all the time.

    Also, as someone else stated, the boxes you get are account-bound once you open them. I take advantage of this by putting them into my account bank, usually the ones giving marks as I have a good many toons who can use them.

    Also, I do my endeavors with the toon who I'm working with who is working on marks until they max out their reps to T6. Then I move to the next one. That's easier than doing them all at once over 20+ toons.

    This person is definitely making a boil out of a pimple.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,133 Arc User
    The only discriminating endeavor I can think of is the elite "kill X Gorn on Nimbus III".

    That one is highly discriminatory towards people's sanity.

    nail meet head...
    meh

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    I would like to note that it is apparently not possible or not wanted that critical questions about certain or mean-spirited or unjustified comments about any kind of discrimination are welcome, each time things are added that have nothing to do with the starting question or comment. And it's starting to feel personal the way some of the responses are. But let's stick to the responses, here we go.

    If you wish to invoke critical thinking, then great.. please do so now. It's been explained to you why this endeavor is not 'discrimination,' by multiple posters, and you have simply ignored the explanation. You asked a question, the entirety of the base of replies have disagreed with you yet you maintain that you're the one that's correct and all others are wrong. It's not 'personal' to disagree with someone, especially when they're wrong.

    Your feeling that this endeavor was somehow created to single you out is not a feeling shared by the majority. Everything that needs to be said has been said and you have convinced no one of your view point. The community by in large, disagrees with you. The most insulting thing is you continuing to make this sound like it's some complex issue that only you understand.

    We understand.. and we don't agree. Maybe it's time to move on?
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • baronvonboombaronvonboom Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    Mods come on really?
    2 pages of this nonsense because someone says "discrimination" about an entirely optional piece of content in a video game.
    Give it a rest please, theres a time & place when that word actually means something & its rarely if ever in conjunction with your gaming hobbies.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 4,132 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    No, Cryptic does not discriminate against people who use their freewill to not join a fleet. This is an MMO and not a single player game. With that said you and others have chosen not to join a fleet, so you have reaped (not being able to do the fleet credit endeavor) what you have sowed (not joined a fleet). Or you let your character who is in a fleet complete the endeavor and leave your non-fleet ones out by completing it on the fleet character. This is not a hill that someone should die on. This is ridiculous! I am not a fan of throwing a word around like discrimination unless it is which this is not.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    You mention it yourself that the intention is that every endeavor is accessible to ANY player, true or false(?), and therein lies the very sensitivity "that accessibility is precisely NOT it". If it had been mentioned that it was a fleet endeavor I would have no problem with it, but it is NOT mentioned. So the assumption is that the endeavor is accessible to everyone.

    There are no assumptions about the endeavor. All players can be members of a fleet. If they choose not to be, that decision is based squarely on those players. There is nothing preventing anyone from being a member of a fleet.

    It's not about whether or not one joins a fleet, anyone can if they want to (everyone agrees on that, whether or not they had bad experiences in the past with fleet leaders/armada leaders) it's about the fact that non-fleet members cannot participate in a Universal Endeavor that is supposed to be playable by anyone and where it is NOT MADE SURE that it is a fleet endeavor. Jesus christ how many times do I have to put that down, really couldn't sleep with it that's why I'm replying in the middle of the night for me.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    tm706 wrote: »
    By your own admission, you have a character in a fleet and therefore the "content" you wish to play (an endeavor) IS available to you. Since the reward boxes are bound to account and the xp/perks from endeavors are an account wide bonus/feature, no content or rewards are denied to your characters who aren't in fleets. Most (good) fleets don't demand arbitrary weekly contributions/donations. The ones that do, don't require your presence either. Many fleets are more than happy to accept a member who's looking to contribute their time/interactions just as much as one with a bag of Dil. Endeavors are used to encourage certain activities in the player base NOT punish those who find some of them annoying or inaccessible. FWFI, if you are a PC player and need or want a fleet in which you can donate and leave when this endeavor shows up, Feel free to seek me out in game. I'll be happy to help.
    It seems everyone thinks everyone should be in a fleet, it's not about being in a fleet then all I have to do is unblock and get unsolicited fleet invitations which I could possibly comply with if I wanted to but because of the bad experiences due to asking critical questions don't participate. It's about the fact that an endeavor that is supposed to be playable by everyone is reserved for fleet members while it is not explicitly mentioned that it is only available to fleet members and as such should be mentioned as a fleet endeavor.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    If I equip only beams, the Cannon Scatter Volley skill stops buffing my damage. Am I "disadvantaged" and "discriminated against" because Cryptic won't buff my damage?

    If I have only Phasers equipped and the endeavor is to inflict Disruptor damage, am I "discriminated against" because I can't complete the endeavor unless I choose to equip Disruptors?

    No.

    Now what does this have to do with the question statement? It seems that this is a response to rile up someone who does such questioning.
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    nccmark wrote: »
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    nommo#5819 wrote: »

    Overall, I feel like this is a nothing-burger since Endeavors are not per character but per account. Take your "fleet of free characters" & choose one that isn't in a fleet, or is in a fleet, to complete so said Endeavor & move-on.

    That is not a solution to the question posed.


    Questions get answers, not solutions. You asked a YES/NO question, and you got answers.
    And since most answers are NO, the consensus is that there is no problem, hence, no solution is required.

    Everything you have complained about is based on your choices.
    You are not discriminated against, you simply chose not to do A in order to earn B.
    That is a requirement of event rewards, episode rewards, so many things.
    If you want B, complete A.
    If not, stop complaining. You are not a victim of anything. You chose not to work for a reward that other players have decided to work toward/earn/obtain.

    It's not a question statement where I'm asking for a yes or no solution, it's a question statement to think about it. This also means that I am all too aware that there may not be a solution to this or even will be possible, outside of joining a fleet as everyone here apparently wants and apparently no thought is given beyond that (put down with no bad intentions).
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    I'm surprised this is still going.

    Player playing a multi player game doesn't want to do multi player things. Ok don't. I'm not seeing the issue. If you don't want to do earn community rewards don't. People skip many of these things. No one is complaining about being forced to do group TFO stuff.... I mean I want to play 100% solo why must I que 3 Iconian STFs today. I don't like ground why am I asked to do X dmg on the ground or the reverse.

    The entire point of the Endeavor system was to reward you for playing the game the developers develop. You don't normally do X or Y well here is a little reward to give it a try today. Yes if someone hasn't joined a fleet/guild what have you player group in a Multi player game... perhaps they should give that part of the game a try.

    Sensational title, I assume due to translation aside. I think basically everyone has said the same thing to the OP. Its a small rewards system to sample the game... play what you want and if you don't want to finish everyone every day don't. No big thing.

    Who is saying here that I don't want to do multi-player stuff, I am NOT saying that. Which for you is an assumption to truth that I have not put anywhere. And again things are dragged in that have nothing to do with the question, it has nothing to do with weapon and damage, is there no understanding read more. The question is nevertheless clear.
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    I think the OP is being deliberately obtuse or they are very stubborn about this one Universal Endeavor. They have a character in a fleet, therefore that endeavor is not locked out for them.

    That endeavor is also stupid easy to complete. Just find a fleet holding that needs more than 10k dil. I do it like that all the time.

    Also, as someone else stated, the boxes you get are account-bound once you open them. I take advantage of this by putting them into my account bank, usually the ones giving marks as I have a good many toons who can use them.

    Also, I do my endeavors with the toon who I'm working with who is working on marks until they max out their reps to T6. Then I move to the next one. That's easier than doing them all at once over 20+ toons.

    This person is definitely making a boil out of a pimple.

    What you are thinking is that I would intentionally abuse and no it is not because a certain character is NOT in a fleet that I should play it with a character that is in a fleet. I also have an account where the characters are not in a fleet and that account is the victim of this method mentioned in the question, and I can already hear it coming from "then go into a fleet and you can do it". The issue is that players who are not in a fleet are barred from playing an endeavor that is NOT MENTIONED as a fleet endeavor only accessible to fleet members and as such should be listed as a fleet endeavor and NOT a universal endeavor. So the assumption of me being abusive is completely wrong.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    I would like to note that it is apparently not possible or not wanted that critical questions about certain or mean-spirited or unjustified comments about any kind of discrimination are welcome, each time things are added that have nothing to do with the starting question or comment. And it's starting to feel personal the way some of the responses are. But let's stick to the responses, here we go.

    If you wish to invoke critical thinking, then great.. please do so now. It's been explained to you why this endeavor is not 'discrimination,' by multiple posters, and you have simply ignored the explanation. You asked a question, the entirety of the base of replies have disagreed with you yet you maintain that you're the one that's correct and all others are wrong. It's not 'personal' to disagree with someone, especially when they're wrong.

    Your feeling that this endeavor was somehow created to single you out is not a feeling shared by the majority. Everything that needs to be said has been said and you have convinced no one of your view point. The community by in large, disagrees with you. The most insulting thing is you continuing to make this sound like it's some complex issue that only you understand.

    We understand.. and we don't agree. Maybe it's time to move on?

    So you think I'm being insulting to others because I don't like the answers? Well that's the first time I hear that too. The assumption that only I would understand the problem is ridiculous. If everyone wouldn't add things that don't belong to the question, I wouldn't have to repeat myself so often. SO STOP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS QUIETLY.
  • erdi#1371 erdi Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    sthe91 wrote: »
    No, Cryptic does not discriminate against people who use their freewill to not join a fleet. This is an MMO and not a single player game. With that said you and others have chosen not to join a fleet, so you have reaped (not being able to do the fleet credit endeavor) what you have sowed (not joined a fleet). Or you let your character who is in a fleet complete the endeavor and leave your non-fleet ones out by completing it on the fleet character. This is not a hill that someone should die on. This is ridiculous! I am not a fan of throwing a word around like discrimination unless it is which this is not.

    I'm not talking about a single player game, there are plenty of things in STO that I do together with multiple players and they don't have to be TFOs. And here we go again, it's not about me being able to do the endeavor with another character (that's in a fleet) instead of the character who isn't a fleet member, it's about players who aren't being in a fleet (I have such an account where my characters are not in a fleet) an endeavor where it is clearly NOT stated that it is NOT a fleet endeavor and as such should be accessible to everyone cannot and may not play.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 8,377 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    If you were trying to suggest that this be changed, or report it as a bug, you should have posted in the Feedback or Support areas.

    However, you chose to post in the General Discussion area. That clearly indicates that it is a topic open to discussion.

    You have then failed to understand that your initial question is based on a flawed premise: that "discrimination" applies not only to cases where players (or characters) are penalized for something outside of their control (race, faction, gender, class), but also to cases where the player is in control (like not joining a fleet or not going to a particular location).

    (There is in fact one endeavour that does discriminate - by faction - but you claimed that was not relevant when I mentioned it.)

    You then agreed, when asked, that an endeavour that can only be completed at a specific location, is not discrimination against players who do not want to go there.

    However, this endeavour - like the specific place ones - IS accessible to everyone; you have made a choice that makes you unable to complete it.

    If you do not understand that your choice not to join a fleet, is the same thing as a player refusing to go to the location for a specific place endeavour, then you, sir, are a hypocrite.

    And your repeated claims that your question has not been answered, are not accurate. Simply because you do not like the answers you got, does not mean they did not exist. Our failure to agree with you, does not mean we did not understand the question.

    Post edited by westmetals on
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    erdi#1371 wrote: »
    I would like to note that it is apparently not possible or not wanted that critical questions about certain or mean-spirited or unjustified comments about any kind of discrimination are welcome, each time things are added that have nothing to do with the starting question or comment. And it's starting to feel personal the way some of the responses are. But let's stick to the responses, here we go.

    If you wish to invoke critical thinking, then great.. please do so now. It's been explained to you why this endeavor is not 'discrimination,' by multiple posters, and you have simply ignored the explanation. You asked a question, the entirety of the base of replies have disagreed with you yet you maintain that you're the one that's correct and all others are wrong. It's not 'personal' to disagree with someone, especially when they're wrong.

    Your feeling that this endeavor was somehow created to single you out is not a feeling shared by the majority. Everything that needs to be said has been said and you have convinced no one of your view point. The community by in large, disagrees with you. The most insulting thing is you continuing to make this sound like it's some complex issue that only you understand.

    We understand.. and we don't agree. Maybe it's time to move on?

    So you think I'm being insulting to others because I don't like the answers? Well that's the first time I hear that too. The assumption that only I would understand the problem is ridiculous. If everyone wouldn't add things that don't belong to the question, I wouldn't have to repeat myself so often. SO STOP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS QUIETLY.

    Ok, I can tell from your reply that you either are not reading posts or you just don't understand them. The person talking about it being personal was you.. I was responding to what YOU said. :lol:

    Clearly this is a lost cause. Even when someone addresses your points you are either unable or unwilling to understand them.

    So cool.. keep playing victim and crying 'discrimination' if that makes you feel better..

    But you're ridiculous.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
This discussion has been closed.