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Does Cryptic discriminate against non-fleet players?
One could sometimes say it does, example=Universal endeavor Earn 5000 fleet credits. Here it is clear that this only gives fleet members an advantage, and yes there willb be those who say you just have to join a fleet or you can join a fleet. There is an easy answer to this, one is not obligated to join a fleet although it has advantages, but an Endeavor has nothing to do with a fleet and so one can speak of discrimination here. One can also say that paying players also has certain advantages against someone who is a F2P player, although this is of little significance in the game and does not make a significant difference (not counting the 500 Zen every month). On top of that, I experience quite regularly with my fleet of free characters that I get few or rarely loot drops versus the character who is in a fleet and does have quite many or regular loot drops. I think many players would feel differently if Cryptic made an Endeavor that was only for NOT fleet players, the player world would be turned upside down. And for those who would say do a reroll, it is and always will be a disadvantage/discrimination and with a reroll you will be forced to use a token you otherwise do not have to use.
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There is some content that is only available to fleet members, such as fleet gear, endeavors, and tasks in the recruitments.,
Fleet membership is free and open to all players. You choose not to join a fleet, and so choose not to get access to fleet content.
For many (even most games), you'll have challenges/achievements that require you to use something you may not use for various reasons, whether it's multiplayer, difficulty mode, path, behavior in-character, guild, finding that one specific thing to do on a vast map you're likely not to find without a guide.
For STO, whenever there is a PvP endeavor or even an elite "kill X on Nimbus", I just say "TRIBBLE this" and ignore it.
Yes its a multi player game... yes you are intended to join a fleet and play with other human beings. There are single player Star Trek games out there if you prefer.
You made the choice. Frankly... you need to live with it.
Besides... its the universal. Compared to some of the personals that's hardly an advantage. More like pocket change.
I am clearly not talking about pvp, so this is this not applicable.
Working together in a team is not the same as being a fleet member, in fact most tfo's take place in teams. So YES, in this area there is some form of discrimination towards non fleet members. have no problem working together in a team, but I do have a problem with this form of Endeavor.
An Endeavor has nothing to do with a fleet as far as I understand it, I have nothing against a fleet offering certain advantages over not being in a fleet. An Endeavor would be considered for any player whether they are in a fleet or not. I ask again, what would happen if Cryptic decided to make a tfo that is Only for non fleet members what would be the reaction on the forum? Much more severe than now one can say. And so, as I can read and understand in the first words of the response, there is a certain kind of discrimination.
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Is not letting level 5 players into elite queues discrimination?
Most people would say "no."
A player choosing to shut themselves off from some content is a choice not "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex."
"I experience quite regularly with my fleet of free characters that I get few or rarely loot drops versus the character who is in a fleet and does have quite many or regular loot drops." This is by definition what's called: anecdotal evidence so not worth much beyond you feeling that it's true. It may be true or false, but isn't support by any factual evidence just a stated personal experience.
"One can also say that paying players also has certain advantages against someone who is a F2P player," IMO, as they should since paying players are contributing financially to the maintenance of this game versus someone whom is a F2P player & isn't contributing financially. Besides, unless the so called "advantages" are affecting PvP one having something, anything, isn't taking away from someone else unless you're calculating one's ego.
Overall, I feel like this is a nothing-burger since Endeavors are not per character but per account. Take your "fleet of free characters" & choose one that isn't in a fleet, or is in a fleet, to complete so said Endeavor & move-on.
Endeavors seem to be designed to include and promote doing a wide variety of activities available within the game.
If they didn't have the fleet credit endeavor would it be discriminating against fleet players?
Does the "complete an advanced or elite queue" discriminate against casual and newer players?
What's stopping you from completing the endeavor on your character that is in a fleet?
There's 46 different endeavors listed in the sto wiki. Is it reasonable to claim discrimination if there's just one you decide you won't do?
Is the term "making a mountain out of a mole hill" applicable here?
Mountain out of a pimple, nevermind mole hill. People are throwing 'discrimination' claims about as if everyone MUST change, even if there's no discrimination.
OP, there is practically NO lasting advantage from having a 'Fleet' endeavour, just as there's NO lasting advantage from not wanting to do a ground/space/salvage/Dabo endeavour for whatever reason. The choice is left with YOU, not Cryptic, to take part.
"I experience quite regularly with my fleet of free characters that I get few or rarely loot drops versus the character who is in a fleet and does have quite many or regular loot drops". There is ZERO evidence of this. I have 25+ toons (on PC and Xbox) that are in a fleet and not, and it matters not whether they are in a fleet or not as to the quality and quantity of loot drops.
"I ask again, what would happen if Cryptic decided to make a tfo that is Only for non fleet members what would be the reaction on the forum?" A moot point. The game also has Fleet ONLY TFO's, which are as ancient as the game.....and you don't see anyone shouting 'discrimination' do you!?
This is as bad as the FB poster shouting 'discrimination' at Kael on a livestream because there was no 'key' Indian Captains in-game........an absurd accusation for reason that are too obvious...just like this one.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Not allowing a level five player into Elite queues is not discrimination but a protection for the player of that level, whether that is an alt of an experienced player or not is irrelevant.So what you are saying, if I understand correctly, is that a player who chooses not to go into a fleet or has gone out of a fleet due to (very) bad experiences by asking critical questions (or other things) may not reach an end game level and be denied certain things such as, among others, playing an Endeavor as in this case.
We are talking about whether or not we can play Endeavor not discrimination against things that can be associated with age - race or sexual orientation. These things have nothing to do with the question being asked.
That is not a solution to the question posed.
No, does the term "turning a gnat into an elephant" apply here? No, because if the question is reversed there will be a very larger and indignant response to why there is an Endeavor that is only for non fleet members.
If they didn't have the fleet credit endeavor would it be discriminating against fleet players? This is not a valid additional question to the original question, but to answer it "no this is not discrimination" to the fact that neither like fleet player nor non-fleet player benefit or suffer from this.
What's stopping you from completing the endeavor on your character that is in a fleet? It's not about playing the endeavor with a character that is in a fleet, it's about denying a player who is not in a fleet grant access to an endeavor and the points aka reward that goes with it.
"I ask again, what would happen if Cryptic decided to make a tfo that is Only for non fleet members what would be the reaction on the forum?" A moot point. The game also has Fleet ONLY TFO's, which are as ancient as the game.....and you don't see anyone shouting 'discrimination' do you!?
This is as bad as the FB poster shouting 'discrimination' at Kael on a livestream because there was no 'key' Indian Captains in-game........an absurd accusation for reason that are too obvious...just like this one.
That there are tfo's that are only accessible to fleets is not what I am talking about. This is about an endeavor and the denial of access to play it and the reward to be obtained in points.
The ONLY denial of access is caused by yourself, not Cryptic. There is greater and a more focused benefit gained from a TFO you can play with a fleet repeatedly in a day than an endeavour that appears once a month! There's absolutely no discrimination here as you are freely proved the tools and access to every endeavour in the game. Your's and other's choice to not find a nice friendly fleet is not Cryptic's problem.
Agreed. It is a Personal choice.
OP, you are seeing the consequences of your personal choices which while may have some benefits for yourself, also has its downsides.
No one to blame but yourself.
Because there isn't one to see.
Joining a fleet is purely optional, so are the endeavors. Deciding not to join a fleet or not partaking in a single endeavor in no way diminishes your overall game progress or experience. If the endeavor is important to you, then you can opt to meet the requirement, if not then that's your choice.
When you 'discriminate' against someone, you deny them something that others have access to. Using that word in this example diminishes it's meaning and frankly over sensationalizes a very minor issue. Every player in the game has the option to join a fleet if that's what they want. No one is forbidding you from anything, you're opting out of it. Being ineligible for the endeavor is a result of that decision. You're free to change your mind anytime you wish.
If you're on PC I will even invite you to a fleet where you're not required to do anything. You can join, enjoy the perks and donate if you feel like it's worthwhile. While not every fleet works this way, mine does, and many others do as well.
I understand you're slightly put off by this endeavor, and that's fine but no one is discriminating against anyone here and we should be a little more cautious throwing that word around like it has no meaning.. because it does.
You want to be 'eligible' for the fleet endeavor, join a fleet. Choosing not to join a fleet does not equal being discriminated against when the fleet endeavor turns up.
You already said you have one character in a fleet. Were this me, I'd simply do the fleet endeavor on that character. It's how I do endeavors. I choose the best toon for the particular endeavor. When I do them, that is. I haven't done endeavors in a couple weeks while waiting for the next Event Campaign to pop.
You are correct, joining a fleet costs nothing the costs come but only at the time after joining a fleet. I have no problem with that because after all there is a return in the form of modules and the like (here one cannot speak of discrimination because it is gradually clear to every player that this is an advantage if one is a fleet member and that whoever does not contribute to the fleet cannot get it either). While this Universal Endeavor does not disadvantage fleet members while it should be the intention that Endeavors should be playable for every player, so yes here a group is favored against a group that is disadvantaged and therefore there is a form of discrimination.
About the last bolt marked tfo I do not express an opinion because that is not the question, although there could possibly be a discussion about that as well.
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Whether or not to go to DS9 for Win GPL endeavor but to another place cannot count as discrimination, even if one reverses the question by not going to Drozana. Here one chooses to take the longest or the shortest path, on another account of mine I can even do it on my ship and again there is no discrimination because there is still a possibility to perform the endeavor.