As a gamer I have seen companies make the spine snap too many times and they usually discover how big a mistake they make. Sure some will comply ad move to windows 8,10,11 however many of us still have great gaming in Windows 7 and with the OS 10 that microsoft has to fix something that created a big bug is why many won't go to Win 10 (not to mention how more limiting the OS is and more ways for MS to get your private information as they buy that stuff under layers of menu.
I can tell you this, I am not going to maike the jump to Windows 10 for the company. I would instead much see this game go away as the devs finally put the extra final nail in the coffin of this game. I hope your stats are right that sees nothing but win 10 users as you will lose a significant amount of players either due to win 10 being forced on them or those who don't want to install win 10 only to have win 11 come out making win 10 another OS on life support.
I would really like to hear just what you are going to do that absolutely requires Windows 10 or 8. You still have so many broken features in the game, now you are going to move the game to Win 10, for chat features or something. First you kill the fundry, then you lop off a limb or two by locking to account omega particles, then you find a way to kill off the dil exchange or at least make it as bad as nwn online has been then you find new things and charge dil for them, sorry about over 2000 dil for I think it was an admiralty pass or re-roll of daily objectives and then this. It is like you want to see how long it takes players to finally leave.
Let not forget most players will tell you now that you big events where there are so many bad guys and good guys on the screen people can't tell where the enemy is because of the 4th of july fireworks to the 10th power is going on. So I guess in Feb 2022 you will finally give me a way to leave the game but not because I did anything but you thought oh kill off win 7 no one will use it. Is this maybe some sort of deal with Microsoft to force users to upgrade in exchange for something (yes one game company recently got visited by some foreign cracker who found documents and posted on the dark web how that company got certain promises from Microsoft in exchange for forcing win 10 on its base so could this be the case.
I wish you the best of luck and lets rename the game Space the final empty space, there were the voyages...
If people are upset about this. Imagine some in the situation, like myself, that don't meet the Windows 11 minimum requirements because my Ryzen 7 2700X is Zen + and not the minimum, Zen 2, even though it runs perfectly fine through out the whole Insiders testing phase.
Personally, I didn't like Windows 10. 8.1 was okay but I also liked Windows 8 when it didn't have a start button. Metro UI was way ahead of its time in my opinion. Windows 7 and earlier just look horrific by today's standards but there are plenty of ways to alter the UI to achieve what is know as, the "Classic" look.
The irony of it all though... Is STO's game engine dates back about half a decade before STO even launched. When is that going to get a significant update?!? Personally, Cryptic's engine should have been retired before STO ever launched, but that this a mistake we are plagued by to this day.
Actually, most computers will not be able to run Windows 11 since like cars the average computer is not brand new and Win11 will not run most machines older than three years or so because they lack the version of "security" chip that it requires.
The problem with switching to a new engine is that it takes about the same amount of time, effort, and funding that starting a new game does. It would be great if they rewrote it (or went to another engine) that can handle Vulkan but I doubt PWE would authorize it.
Those TPM chips can be bought separately and plugged into a motherboard that has the header for it. A lot of older CPU's support TPM but there is clearly a push from Microsoft and OEM's to sell more hardware. Ryzen first gen and most Intel 7th gen processors and even older processors have TMP built in to the CPU.
Windows 11 on my Intel 4770k with 16GB of RAM on a SATA 3 SSD runs perfectly fine. It plays STO fine, Sea of Thieves fine, Forza Horizon 4 fine, and a few other games I play. Everything feels snappy, like it should but it obviously doesn't have the quicker load times that NVMe has to offer. Is that ideal... I'm not sure but I have my Ryzen 7 2700X system with 64GB of RAM that runs Windows 11 perfectly as well, including with TPM 2.0 enabled on a 512GB NVMe drive. As an Insider, I can continue to run Windows 11 in an unsupported environment with updates but I do want at least one of my systems to run it officially. I'm probably going to buy a Ryzen 5900X in the next few weeks, if I can find one for a reasonable price.
I sit on the fence where if it is end of life for an OS, then people should upgrade. In an always connected world, those security updates are really important and the same goes for regular updates. I know a few people that would still run Windows 98SE if they could. They don't play games or anything though. STO is an online game though and all of our systems need to connect to PWE's servers to play. These older systems not only make development more redundant and a lot more work for developers... Geeze. I just defended the STO devs! Has hell frozen over?!? :P But supporting these legacy OS's that haven't had security updates in years, also potentially puts PWE's servers at risk as well.
<sinp> I've never devled into win10's security, so I cannot say with any certainty how secure it is. But, again, to repeat: My real concern with Win10 is privacy.
That's quite an admission. You haven't looked at it and just believed the anti-hype. More fool you. Sorry, but I cannot take your posts seriously anymore.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
<sinp> I've never devled into win10's security, so I cannot say with any certainty how secure it is. But, again, to repeat: My real concern with Win10 is privacy.
That's quite an admission. You haven't looked at it and just believed the anti-hype. More fool you. Sorry, but I cannot take your posts seriously anymore.
Taking my comment out of context. I never voluntarily researched the security aspect, but that does not mean I did not read up articles that touched on it, during my research on the invasion of privacy concerns people have written on, and counter arguments. Just because I cannot say anything with certainty (ie quoting articles) does not mean I'm completely clueless.
"Sorry, but I cannot take your posts seriously anymore." Agreed! Wholeheartedly! After seeing your posts on the first 2 pages, I resolved to not bother reading, much less replying to anything you post, Just as I did with that other person, whose posts, btw, got removed by mods! But you decided to get my attention specifically, so the least I can do is make an exception to my resolve. Just one though. After this I won't be bothered with any future posts you choose to make on this topic.
If THAT part of my post is what you choose to complain about, You just payed me a great compliment! Thanks for that!
Still, it would have been more constructive to the topic at hand had you commented on the part where I mentioned the compromise, and waiting for someone from management to explain why the exclusion is absolutely necessary, when all they should care about is the compatibility of direct3D11.
But I do not believe you are management, so you cannot speak for them! All you can do is waste people's time with needless and useless responses. Still, never let it be said I stopped you from being foolish with your posts.
As a gamer I have seen companies make the spine snap too many times and they usually discover how big a mistake they make. Sure some will comply ad move to windows 8,10,11 however many of us still have great gaming in Windows 7 and with the OS 10 that microsoft has to fix something that created a big bug is why many won't go to Win 10 (not to mention how more limiting the OS is and more ways for MS to get your private information as they buy that stuff under layers of menu.
I can tell you this, I am not going to maike the jump to Windows 10 for the company. I would instead much see this game go away as the devs finally put the extra final nail in the coffin of this game. I hope your stats are right that sees nothing but win 10 users as you will lose a significant amount of players either due to win 10 being forced on them or those who don't want to install win 10 only to have win 11 come out making win 10 another OS on life support.
I would really like to hear just what you are going to do that absolutely requires Windows 10 or 8. You still have so many broken features in the game, now you are going to move the game to Win 10, for chat features or something. First you kill the fundry, then you lop off a limb or two by locking to account omega particles, then you find a way to kill off the dil exchange or at least make it as bad as nwn online has been then you find new things and charge dil for them, sorry about over 2000 dil for I think it was an admiralty pass or re-roll of daily objectives and then this. It is like you want to see how long it takes players to finally leave.
Let not forget most players will tell you now that you big events where there are so many bad guys and good guys on the screen people can't tell where the enemy is because of the 4th of july fireworks to the 10th power is going on. So I guess in Feb 2022 you will finally give me a way to leave the game but not because I did anything but you thought oh kill off win 7 no one will use it. Is this maybe some sort of deal with Microsoft to force users to upgrade in exchange for something (yes one game company recently got visited by some foreign cracker who found documents and posted on the dark web how that company got certain promises from Microsoft in exchange for forcing win 10 on its base so could this be the case.
I wish you the best of luck and lets rename the game Space the final empty space, there were the voyages...
"So I guess in Feb 2022 you will finally give me a way to leave the game but not because I did anything but you thought oh kill off win 7 no one will use it. Is this maybe some sort of deal with Microsoft to force users to upgrade in exchange for something"
BOTH are sentiments I shared, and posted. Thanks for showing I'm not the only one to think this.
I would like to make one request though, if you're monitoring this at all. Can you send me a link to the documents, if not here, then privately? I will try to search for the documents, as it would be great to have for future references, but I would welcome any help in locating it!
<sinp> I've never devled into win10's security, so I cannot say with any certainty how secure it is. But, again, to repeat: My real concern with Win10 is privacy.
That's quite an admission. You haven't looked at it and just believed the anti-hype. More fool you. Sorry, but I cannot take your posts seriously anymore.
Taking my comment out of context. I never voluntarily researched the security aspect, but that does not mean I did not read up articles that touched on it, during my research on the invasion of privacy concerns people have written on, and counter arguments. Just because I cannot say anything with certainty (ie quoting articles) does not mean I'm completely clueless.
"Sorry, but I cannot take your posts seriously anymore." Agreed! Wholeheartedly! After seeing your posts on the first 2 pages, I resolved to not bother reading, much less replying to anything you post, Just as I did with that other person, whose posts, btw, got removed by mods! But you decided to get my attention specifically, so the least I can do is make an exception to my resolve. Just one though. After this I won't be bothered with any future posts you choose to make on this topic.
If THAT part of my post is what you choose to complain about, You just payed me a great compliment! Thanks for that!
Still, it would have been more constructive to the topic at hand had you commented on the part where I mentioned the compromise, and waiting for someone from management to explain why the exclusion is absolutely necessary, when all they should care about is the compatibility of direct3D11.
But I do not believe you are management, so you cannot speak for them! All you can do is waste people's time with needless and useless responses. Still, never let it be said I stopped you from being foolish with your posts.
Such self-righteousness. Still, not unexpected. You have set yourself up as an expert that "must be listened to" and yet your own ignorance clarifies you are not. Change is going to happen, with or without you. Not to spite you - but because moving forward has to happen. Contact PWE directly and present them with your, ah, "facts on the matter" as well as your credentials as to why they should take you seriously and we'll see what happens. Of course that depends on whether you have either.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
The seriously broken way that Android is implemented so it cannot be upgraded, or only upgraded by one release, on most phones (which is due to the hardware manufacturers' proprietary channels and not wanting to bother with anything older than their newest devices) means that the majority of phones in use today are serious security risks, and that includes a surprisingly high percentage of phones still running jelly bean and Kit Kat today. In fact, I still have a tablet that does not have a version higher than Kit Kat available for it.
Something like 42.1% of all Android phones are no longer able to receive security updates just because support for the version has been dropped by Google alone (and some manufacturers do not pass on the updates for 8 and/or 9 anymore when it requires them to actively do anything with with them due to the proprietary drivers and whatnot which cranks the percentage of unsecure devices even higher).
The security updates are currently only being made for Android 8 and above yet the single most numerous version on phones today is 6, two versions lower than that. Google and the hardware manufacturers need to get their heads out of their backsides and be realistic about the actual lifetime of phones and other devices and support them for that full amount of time instead of just the three years or so that they do now.
((Had to cut out the top of your post/reply for space requirements))
As for why disallow windows 7...BECAUSE THE NET SECURITY FOR THAT OS IS SWISS CHEESE. Because SECURITY IS A THING. Because if they continue support for it, it means those of us who has moved on can't get proper security updates because it will break on windows 7. So...yeah no...that OS has been dead for YEARS now, it's WAY past time for them to have ditched support for it.
"If you are using android 4.2 still and you connected to a wifi anywhere, you might as well have made a clone of all data on your phone and posted it on a public website." I don't. Not even to my house's wifi.
" I sure as hope you are not using your whatsapp on that phone for anything to do with work if you work at anyplace that is of even minor note." I do not. It's for talking to 4 family members in another country. Hence the "necessary evil" part.
"This is why you should NOT use personal phones for work." The only thing work-related I do with my phone is make/receive actual calls, calling in sick or something, or my manager asking if I can come into work to cover.
"That aside, it's not just google. So you use Bing? Or Yahoo? Have an e-mail account not from a domain you personally pay for? " I use startpage, qwant, and/or duckduckgo, depending on which browser I'm using. for email, right now my primary ones are hosted by protonmail. I do not pay for their email, but I do pay for their VPN. Before them, I used other vpns (not before trying to guage their pros and cons via articles from sites that keep up with things like vpn, P2P, torrenting, etc.
"No Amazon...great...so you don't do ANY online shopping? Or search for things online before buying them?" for the most part, no, I do little to no online shopping. When I do, I ask my sibling, who DOES laugh at me, but buys the item for me anyway :-p I do research items online before buying, through a VPN service, as mentioned above.
Okay I had to cut out a lot because This is getting too long. But I'll reply to the last part.
"As for why disallow windows 7...BECAUSE THE NET SECURITY FOR THAT OS IS SWISS CHEESE. Because SECURITY IS A THING. Because if they continue support for it, it means those of us who has moved on can't get proper security updates because it will break on windows 7. So...yeah no...that OS has been dead for YEARS now, it's WAY past time for them to have ditched support for it." I do not recall any patch notes that mention a security patch for operating systems, OR even the Direct3D environment. From what I remember, most of them detailed things being fixed within the game, irrespective of what OS players are using. So, again, As long as we can play the game with their requirement of Direct3D version 11, then they should not care what OS we use, as long as it supports Direct3d11, which windows 7, despite ALL of it's cons, fully supports! That's the bottom line no one seems to care about. For a bunch of opinionated posters (you, me, most of the posters here so far) that's fine, but for developers, and especially management of a company, in this case a gaming company, this should matter greatly. I mentioned before that I'm a lifetime sub and was made fun of for it by a fool. But between paying for subs for friends who could not afford it, and past occassional zen purchases (before I started getting annoyed with cryptic's/PW's gameing decisions) I have easily passed the $1000 mark in funds paid into this game. If STO could be properly taken care of, instead of being turned into a massive cash grab (like they sense the end and are trying for as much $$$ as they can get! idk.), who knows how much more I would have given. And I'm a Windows7 user, with an OS that, again, fully supports the graphics API STO's management wants to upgrade to And as proven from other posts on this topic thread, I'm not the only one. I have yet to hear/see any really valid reason why windows7 should be blocked, especially from the people that can actually answer this.
I do not recall any patch notes that mention a security patch for operating systems, OR even the Direct3D environment. From what I remember, most of them detailed things being fixed within the game, irrespective of what OS players are using. So, again, As long as we can play the game with their requirement of Direct3D version 11, then they should not care what OS we use, as long as it supports Direct3d11, which windows 7, despite ALL of it's cons, fully supports! That's the bottom line no one seems to care about. For a bunch of opinionated posters (you, me, most of the posters here so far) that's fine, but for developers, and especially management of a company, in this case a gaming company, this should matter greatly. I mentioned before that I'm a lifetime sub and was made fun of for it by a fool. But between paying for subs for friends who could not afford it, and past occassional zen purchases (before I started getting annoyed with cryptic's/PW's gameing decisions) I have easily passed the $1000 mark in funds paid into this game. If STO could be properly taken care of, instead of being turned into a massive cash grab (like they sense the end and are trying for as much $$$ as they can get! idk.), who knows how much more I would have given. And I'm a Windows7 user, with an OS that, again, fully supports the graphics API STO's management wants to upgrade to And as proven from other posts on this topic thread, I'm not the only one. I have yet to hear/see any really valid reason why windows7 should be blocked, especially from the people that can actually answer this.
Games will not post security fixes in their patch notes. Netcode is VERY much a back end programing deal. So, no, you won't be seeing anything they need to do for that in patch note...EVER. But if you think there has been ZERO such work done in this game because it hasn't been posted on the patch notes...yeah...to say you understand so little on the subject that your opinion on the matter should not even remotely be considered is an insane understatement. This isn't even a matter of subject matter knowledge...it's COMMON BLOODY SENSE.
And once again SECURITY IS AN ISSUE. A VERY VALID ONE. If you won't accept that it is...we are done here. If you will note. they are dropping windows 7 support BEFORE the directX 11 requirement. That should tell you that the changes is not entirely about the updated graphics API requirement alone.
There's no point in trying to tell richard1279 anything. They know everything, and and anything they don't know they are not interested in knowing.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
I have yet to hear/see any really valid reason why windows7 should be blocked, especially from the people that can actually answer this.
Here is a valid reason:
As of February 15, 2022, Star Trek Online and Neverwinter will no longer be supporting Windows 7 and Direct3D Feature Level 10. This decision was made in order to improve game performance, optimize the player experience, and facilitate future development.
Love it or hate it, it doesn't matter. In the end, you decide.. upgrade or play something else.
Further debate is pointless, neither side is listening to the other. No argument in this thread will reverse or alter the decision, upgrade your OS or play a different game. Those are the options on the table.
as you will lose a significant amount of players either due to win 10 being forced on them or those who don't want to install win 10 only to have win 11 come out making win 10 another OS on life support.
Less then 10% of people are using Win 7 according to Steam's Hardware surveys. the overwhelming majority of PC users are already at Wind 8 or 10.
To be fair though. Steam's Hardware Survey is optional and only represents a very small portion of Steam users.
as you will lose a significant amount of players either due to win 10 being forced on them or those who don't want to install win 10 only to have win 11 come out making win 10 another OS on life support.
Less then 10% of people are using Win 7 according to Steam's Hardware surveys. the overwhelming majority of PC users are already at Wind 8 or 10.
To be fair though. Steam's Hardware Survey is optional and only represents a very small portion of Steam users.
True, though I am not sure that would create any bias in favor of a particular direction. That said, it's mostly for our personal guesstimation - Cryptic probably knows far better what its users are using and how many would be affected.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I have a powerful rig with RTX GPU. It runs even the latest titles I've tried on Ultra with the exception of the occasional indie title with zero optimization. I have an installed library of several thousand game titles as well as a host of applications for various media production purposes. I certainly have well beyond the hardware requirements cited in this notice. My system is wonderfully stable and there isn't anything I personally need or use that I am limited from as a result of my OS choice.
That choice has been to remain on Windows 7x64. It has the best compatibility for all my apps. It is easy to manage and far more controllable for me. It is not a system built from the ground up to gather surveillance on the user so it technically easier to manage security for a technically capable person.
Windows 10 is inherently a security risk despite "support" because the security vulnerabilities are built into the foundation of it. Even if you implicitly and inexplicably "trust" Microsoft with that level of intrusion into your every keypress you must be aware that including these vulnerabilities in the foundation of a technology makes them exploitable by "hackers" and anyone else eventually and potentially. It is just bad tech to put back doors and surveillance ("telemetry") into things.
Now you can't speak about that reason for avoiding Windows 10 without people coming out of the woodwork to call you names or depict you as being mentally deficient, or saying "there's no reason", or "it's old", etc. There is very little in the way of even low budget software that doesn't include support of Windows 7.
Aside from the "security" aspect of W10 there is also the compatibility aspect. I'm not going to run an entirely new or separate computer just for one app, in this case STO.
I am disappointed because I just spent a bunch of money on STO out of love for it and the devs who have been doing such a good job (in my opinion) with it and I wanted to support it and see it continue. Then after a few days I wake to find I am about to be cut off unless I submit to installing something that would upend my entire workstation platform.
I am glad that I saw the notice before I spent a whole bunch more cash, which I was about to do over some of the new irresistible sales, but I can't do that for something I will soon be cut off from accessing.
I have spent way too much time over the last year in STO and I really love it. Very sad to be shut out this way!
Right there with ya ... , with the exception of what you think of the devs .
Win XP & 7 have been the golden age for this OS and this game .
But at least it's been quite amusing to see those players who lose nothing , berating those who do . I would expect nothing less of this community .
I have a powerful rig with RTX GPU. It runs even the latest titles I've tried on Ultra with the exception of the occasional indie title with zero optimization. I have an installed library of several thousand game titles as well as a host of applications for various media production purposes. I certainly have well beyond the hardware requirements cited in this notice. My system is wonderfully stable and there isn't anything I personally need or use that I am limited from as a result of my OS choice.
That choice has been to remain on Windows 7x64. It has the best compatibility for all my apps. It is easy to manage and far more controllable for me. It is not a system built from the ground up to gather surveillance on the user so it technically easier to manage security for a technically capable person.
Windows 10 is inherently a security risk despite "support" because the security vulnerabilities are built into the foundation of it. Even if you implicitly and inexplicably "trust" Microsoft with that level of intrusion into your every keypress you must be aware that including these vulnerabilities in the foundation of a technology makes them exploitable by "hackers" and anyone else eventually and potentially. It is just bad tech to put back doors and surveillance ("telemetry") into things.
Now you can't speak about that reason for avoiding Windows 10 without people coming out of the woodwork to call you names or depict you as being mentally deficient, or saying "there's no reason", or "it's old", etc. There is very little in the way of even low budget software that doesn't include support of Windows 7.
Aside from the "security" aspect of W10 there is also the compatibility aspect. I'm not going to run an entirely new or separate computer just for one app, in this case STO.
I am disappointed because I just spent a bunch of money on STO out of love for it and the devs who have been doing such a good job (in my opinion) with it and I wanted to support it and see it continue. Then after a few days I wake to find I am about to be cut off unless I submit to installing something that would upend my entire workstation platform.
I am glad that I saw the notice before I spent a whole bunch more cash, which I was about to do over some of the new irresistible sales, but I can't do that for something I will soon be cut off from accessing.
I have spent way too much time over the last year in STO and I really love it. Very sad to be shut out this way!
Right there with ya ... , with the exception of what you think of the devs .
Win XP & 7 have been the golden age for this OS and this game .
But at least it's been quite amusing to see those players who lose nothing , berating those who do . I would expect nothing less of this community .
You don't have to lose anything either, you choose to.
You can upgrade to Windows 10 right now.. you could run the OS inactivated for free or you can buy a key online for as little as $10, I buy keys all the time for friend/family builds.
If you're not using Windows 10, that's your choice and it's fine.. but you're not a victim here.
I have a powerful rig with RTX GPU. It runs even the latest titles I've tried on Ultra with the exception of the occasional indie title with zero optimization. I have an installed library of several thousand game titles as well as a host of applications for various media production purposes. I certainly have well beyond the hardware requirements cited in this notice. My system is wonderfully stable and there isn't anything I personally need or use that I am limited from as a result of my OS choice.
That choice has been to remain on Windows 7x64. It has the best compatibility for all my apps. It is easy to manage and far more controllable for me. It is not a system built from the ground up to gather surveillance on the user so it technically easier to manage security for a technically capable person.
Windows 10 is inherently a security risk despite "support" because the security vulnerabilities are built into the foundation of it. Even if you implicitly and inexplicably "trust" Microsoft with that level of intrusion into your every keypress you must be aware that including these vulnerabilities in the foundation of a technology makes them exploitable by "hackers" and anyone else eventually and potentially. It is just bad tech to put back doors and surveillance ("telemetry") into things.
Now you can't speak about that reason for avoiding Windows 10 without people coming out of the woodwork to call you names or depict you as being mentally deficient, or saying "there's no reason", or "it's old", etc. There is very little in the way of even low budget software that doesn't include support of Windows 7.
Aside from the "security" aspect of W10 there is also the compatibility aspect. I'm not going to run an entirely new or separate computer just for one app, in this case STO.
I am disappointed because I just spent a bunch of money on STO out of love for it and the devs who have been doing such a good job (in my opinion) with it and I wanted to support it and see it continue. Then after a few days I wake to find I am about to be cut off unless I submit to installing something that would upend my entire workstation platform.
I am glad that I saw the notice before I spent a whole bunch more cash, which I was about to do over some of the new irresistible sales, but I can't do that for something I will soon be cut off from accessing.
I have spent way too much time over the last year in STO and I really love it. Very sad to be shut out this way!
Right there with ya ... , with the exception of what you think of the devs .
Win XP & 7 have been the golden age for this OS and this game .
But at least it's been quite amusing to see those players who lose nothing , berating those who do . I would expect nothing less of this community .
The behaviour of a lot of people replying to this news has been interesting. There is enough emboldened self-righteousness to go around. I don’t think much of those who are aggressively arguing that the change not be made. Some of them have been downright rude – and even ignorant.
Of course PWE has metrics on which is the most popular OS used by players of this game. Of course they get information back from the launcher with general info about the system you are running. It’s even stated in the T&C’s that they look at this.
The idea that there is a majority of people that this will affect is laughable. It is a minority that will be affected. And that minority do have a choice. Most of those against the change have stated they are making a choice not to change to Win 10 and have cited spurious facts about Win 7 and 10 that defy logic.
It comes down to choice. Choices have consequences, lets be clear on that. If you make a choice to use a depreciated OS you have to deal with the consequences of that. It is not down to the world to accommodate you. Software changes, so does hardware. There comes a natural point where if you don’t upgrade to keep up you will not be able to carry on as you are.
The new min hardware requirements are not brutal. They are not asking for the Sun, Moon and Earth. By the time these changes come into effect, Win 10 won’t even be the current iteration of that OS, as Win 11 will be live.
Choice, that’s the key word here. I accept your right to make what ever choice you make. But where I draw the line is where your choice prevents progress and security.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
You don't have to lose anything either, you choose to.
You can upgrade to Windows 10 right now.. you could run the OS inactivated for free or you can buy a key online for as little as $10, I buy keys all the time for friend/family builds.
If you're not using Windows 10, that's your choice and it's fine.. but you're not a victim here. [/quote]
i would be interested in where you get a 10$ code for windows i have a relitive still using windows 8 for there os.
Most of those free or low cost solutions are things you either have to get in on the ground floor of (like the Windows 10 introduction) or only work for a limited amount of time (up to several years in some cases) but usually all end up with needing to spend over $100 or more somewhere down the line.
Often that is because of upgrades to the machine that trigger a certification check, which almost always results in invalidating the copy because of what amounts to a no-upgrade line in the terms of service (and yes, the higher-tier versions of Windows don't have that, but many people cannot afford both the upgrade and the high-end Windows package at the same time).
And no, I am not saying STO should keep the old minimums because the benefits do outweigh the downsides in this case, I am just pointing out that not all of the concern over it is unfounded or only a concern for digital hermits that have walled themselves away from the mainstream.
The behaviour of a lot of people replying to this news has been interesting.
Indeed.
There is enough emboldened self-righteousness to go around.
True.
The idea that there is a majority of people that this will affect is laughable.
That is also true, however neither I , or the person I quoted said anything of the sort .
It comes down to choice.
Indeed.
But you make it sound like it's a choice between crossing the road now , or keep on going on this side of the sidewalk .
Some choices are more complicated then others , and some choices "offered" are little more then a coercion .
Choices have consequences, lets be clear on that.
Ah, we get to the jack boots at last .
Software changes, so does hardware. There comes a natural point where if you don’t upgrade to keep up you will not be able to carry on as you are.
Or ... , you just find it acceptable that you're made to upgrade every 3-5 years .
Is that not also a choice ?
You choose to live by the diktat of the machine .
Interesting .
The new min hardware requirements are not brutal. They are not asking for the Sun, Moon and Earth.
You're once again making arguments against nothing I , or the person I quoted said .
Choice, that’s the key word here. I accept your right to make what ever choice you make. But where I draw the line is where your choice prevents progress and security.
Ok. You seem to not be very clear on the concept of a choice that is self initiated (crossing the street now or later) , and a "choice" that is no choice at all (zero self initiation & being forced to choose) .
But I'm oh so glad that you drew the line where my choice "prevents progress and security".
Sounds totally sane . Honest .
You don't have to lose anything either, you choose to.
(snip)
If you're not using Windows 10, that's your choice and it's fine.. but you're not a victim here.
You seem to know all about my PC issues & needs.
You seem to think that I have not read this thread (and your repetitive arguments within) .
And you seem to think that I offer no value to the Fleet that I'm in .
So let me return the favor by repeating what I said before :
It's been quite amusing to see those players who lose nothing , berating those who do . I would expect nothing less of this community .
Also, plz don't project your lack of victimhood onto me. It just looks bad .
I am just pointing out that not all of the concern over it is unfounded or only a concern for digital hermits that have walled themselves away from the mainstream.
This digital hermit is curious as to how many games have survived long enough to require 3 OS changes / upgrades ?
I'm asking since dropping support for Win 7 is STO's second such ... "choice" I believe they're calling it around here .
With the infusion of Nu Trek & the new OS on the horizon , STO might out live Win 10 -- making it the 3rd OS it leaves in the dust .
i would be interested in where you get a 10$ code for windows i have a relitive still using windows 8 for there os.
I get most of mine from this site. Currently, they're going for $20 but they sometimes get as low as $10-12. I have used several of their keys and had no issues. I once got a key that didn't work, I contacted them through their online messenger and they sent me a new key that worked, they were very responsive.
You seem to know all about my PC issues & needs.
You seem to think that I have not read this thread (and your repetitive arguments within) .
And you seem to think that I offer no value to the Fleet that I'm in .
If you're going to argue against me, that's fine, but use arguments that I have actually made. You are taking a very disengenous stance in this thread and I'll just give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you don't intend to do so. When you argue against someone, you argue the points they have made, not the ones that you insert because they are easiest for you to argue against.
So let me return the favor by repeating what I said before :
It's been quite amusing to see those players who lose nothing , berating those who do . I would expect nothing less of this community .
Also, plz don't project your lack of victimhood onto me. It just looks bad .
Cool, if we are just going to repeat ourselves..
You don't have to lose anything either, you choose to.
You can upgrade to Windows 10 right now.. you could run the OS inactivated for free or you can buy a key online for as little as $10, I buy keys all the time for friend/family builds.
If you're not using Windows 10, that's your choice and it's fine.. but you're not a victim here.
The behaviour of a lot of people replying to this news has been interesting.
Indeed.
There is enough emboldened self-righteousness to go around.
True.
The idea that there is a majority of people that this will affect is laughable.
That is also true, however neither I , or the person I quoted said anything of the sort .
It comes down to choice.
Indeed.
But you make it sound like it's a choice between crossing the road now , or keep on going on this side of the sidewalk .
Some choices are more complicated then others , and some choices "offered" are little more then a coercion .
Choices have consequences, lets be clear on that.
Ah, we get to the jack boots at last .
Software changes, so does hardware. There comes a natural point where if you don’t upgrade to keep up you will not be able to carry on as you are.
Or ... , you just find it acceptable that you're made to upgrade every 3-5 years .
Is that not also a choice ?
You choose to live by the diktat of the machine .
Interesting .
The new min hardware requirements are not brutal. They are not asking for the Sun, Moon and Earth.
You're once again making arguments against nothing I , or the person I quoted said .
Choice, that’s the key word here. I accept your right to make what ever choice you make. But where I draw the line is where your choice prevents progress and security.
Ok. You seem to not be very clear on the concept of a choice that is self initiated (crossing the street now or later) , and a "choice" that is no choice at all (zero self initiation & being forced to choose) .
But I'm oh so glad that you drew the line where my choice "prevents progress and security".
Sounds totally sane . Honest .
Thank you for taking the time to react, rather than respond.
You make it sound like people who keep there systems up to date are brain dead, or unable to make choices for themselves, that somehow Jack Boots are being used to stomp on your choice.
I thought, judging by your other replies, that you don't play the victim.
Choices have consequences - sometimes good, sometimes not so good. Freewill is awesome. Freewill means you have to take responsibility. It's the core of being an adult. It's the core of being human.
No one is forcing you to use an OS you don't want to use.
By all means carry on using Windows 7.
All that's happened is that you have been informed that as of February 2022 Star Trek Online will no longer support depreciated OS'. This is not only for performance, but for security as well - so that the game can continue to exist and have a future.
What you do with that information is a choice.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
Comments
I can tell you this, I am not going to maike the jump to Windows 10 for the company. I would instead much see this game go away as the devs finally put the extra final nail in the coffin of this game. I hope your stats are right that sees nothing but win 10 users as you will lose a significant amount of players either due to win 10 being forced on them or those who don't want to install win 10 only to have win 11 come out making win 10 another OS on life support.
I would really like to hear just what you are going to do that absolutely requires Windows 10 or 8. You still have so many broken features in the game, now you are going to move the game to Win 10, for chat features or something. First you kill the fundry, then you lop off a limb or two by locking to account omega particles, then you find a way to kill off the dil exchange or at least make it as bad as nwn online has been then you find new things and charge dil for them, sorry about over 2000 dil for I think it was an admiralty pass or re-roll of daily objectives and then this. It is like you want to see how long it takes players to finally leave.
Let not forget most players will tell you now that you big events where there are so many bad guys and good guys on the screen people can't tell where the enemy is because of the 4th of july fireworks to the 10th power is going on. So I guess in Feb 2022 you will finally give me a way to leave the game but not because I did anything but you thought oh kill off win 7 no one will use it. Is this maybe some sort of deal with Microsoft to force users to upgrade in exchange for something (yes one game company recently got visited by some foreign cracker who found documents and posted on the dark web how that company got certain promises from Microsoft in exchange for forcing win 10 on its base so could this be the case.
I wish you the best of luck and lets rename the game Space the final empty space, there were the voyages...
Those TPM chips can be bought separately and plugged into a motherboard that has the header for it. A lot of older CPU's support TPM but there is clearly a push from Microsoft and OEM's to sell more hardware. Ryzen first gen and most Intel 7th gen processors and even older processors have TMP built in to the CPU.
Windows 11 on my Intel 4770k with 16GB of RAM on a SATA 3 SSD runs perfectly fine. It plays STO fine, Sea of Thieves fine, Forza Horizon 4 fine, and a few other games I play. Everything feels snappy, like it should but it obviously doesn't have the quicker load times that NVMe has to offer. Is that ideal... I'm not sure but I have my Ryzen 7 2700X system with 64GB of RAM that runs Windows 11 perfectly as well, including with TPM 2.0 enabled on a 512GB NVMe drive. As an Insider, I can continue to run Windows 11 in an unsupported environment with updates but I do want at least one of my systems to run it officially. I'm probably going to buy a Ryzen 5900X in the next few weeks, if I can find one for a reasonable price.
I sit on the fence where if it is end of life for an OS, then people should upgrade. In an always connected world, those security updates are really important and the same goes for regular updates. I know a few people that would still run Windows 98SE if they could. They don't play games or anything though. STO is an online game though and all of our systems need to connect to PWE's servers to play. These older systems not only make development more redundant and a lot more work for developers... Geeze. I just defended the STO devs! Has hell frozen over?!? :P But supporting these legacy OS's that haven't had security updates in years, also potentially puts PWE's servers at risk as well.
That's quite an admission. You haven't looked at it and just believed the anti-hype. More fool you. Sorry, but I cannot take your posts seriously anymore.
Taking my comment out of context. I never voluntarily researched the security aspect, but that does not mean I did not read up articles that touched on it, during my research on the invasion of privacy concerns people have written on, and counter arguments. Just because I cannot say anything with certainty (ie quoting articles) does not mean I'm completely clueless.
"Sorry, but I cannot take your posts seriously anymore." Agreed! Wholeheartedly! After seeing your posts on the first 2 pages, I resolved to not bother reading, much less replying to anything you post, Just as I did with that other person, whose posts, btw, got removed by mods! But you decided to get my attention specifically, so the least I can do is make an exception to my resolve.
If THAT part of my post is what you choose to complain about, You just payed me a great compliment! Thanks for that!
Still, it would have been more constructive to the topic at hand had you commented on the part where I mentioned the compromise, and waiting for someone from management to explain why the exclusion is absolutely necessary, when all they should care about is the compatibility of direct3D11.
But I do not believe you are management, so you cannot speak for them! All you can do is waste people's time with needless and useless responses. Still, never let it be said I stopped you from being foolish with your posts.
"So I guess in Feb 2022 you will finally give me a way to leave the game but not because I did anything but you thought oh kill off win 7 no one will use it. Is this maybe some sort of deal with Microsoft to force users to upgrade in exchange for something"
BOTH are sentiments I shared, and posted. Thanks for showing I'm not the only one to think this.
I would like to make one request though, if you're monitoring this at all. Can you send me a link to the documents, if not here, then privately? I will try to search for the documents, as it would be great to have for future references, but I would welcome any help in locating it!
Such self-righteousness. Still, not unexpected. You have set yourself up as an expert that "must be listened to" and yet your own ignorance clarifies you are not. Change is going to happen, with or without you. Not to spite you - but because moving forward has to happen. Contact PWE directly and present them with your, ah, "facts on the matter" as well as your credentials as to why they should take you seriously and we'll see what happens. Of course that depends on whether you have either.
Something like 42.1% of all Android phones are no longer able to receive security updates just because support for the version has been dropped by Google alone (and some manufacturers do not pass on the updates for 8 and/or 9 anymore when it requires them to actively do anything with with them due to the proprietary drivers and whatnot which cranks the percentage of unsecure devices even higher).
The security updates are currently only being made for Android 8 and above yet the single most numerous version on phones today is 6, two versions lower than that. Google and the hardware manufacturers need to get their heads out of their backsides and be realistic about the actual lifetime of phones and other devices and support them for that full amount of time instead of just the three years or so that they do now.
"If you are using android 4.2 still and you connected to a wifi anywhere, you might as well have made a clone of all data on your phone and posted it on a public website." I don't. Not even to my house's wifi.
" I sure as hope you are not using your whatsapp on that phone for anything to do with work if you work at anyplace that is of even minor note." I do not. It's for talking to 4 family members in another country. Hence the "necessary evil" part.
"This is why you should NOT use personal phones for work." The only thing work-related I do with my phone is make/receive actual calls, calling in sick or something, or my manager asking if I can come into work to cover.
"That aside, it's not just google. So you use Bing? Or Yahoo? Have an e-mail account not from a domain you personally pay for? " I use startpage, qwant, and/or duckduckgo, depending on which browser I'm using. for email, right now my primary ones are hosted by protonmail. I do not pay for their email, but I do pay for their VPN. Before them, I used other vpns (not before trying to guage their pros and cons via articles from sites that keep up with things like vpn, P2P, torrenting, etc.
"No Amazon...great...so you don't do ANY online shopping? Or search for things online before buying them?" for the most part, no, I do little to no online shopping. When I do, I ask my sibling, who DOES laugh at me, but buys the item for me anyway :-p I do research items online before buying, through a VPN service, as mentioned above.
Okay I had to cut out a lot because This is getting too long. But I'll reply to the last part.
"As for why disallow windows 7...BECAUSE THE NET SECURITY FOR THAT OS IS SWISS CHEESE. Because SECURITY IS A THING. Because if they continue support for it, it means those of us who has moved on can't get proper security updates because it will break on windows 7. So...yeah no...that OS has been dead for YEARS now, it's WAY past time for them to have ditched support for it." I do not recall any patch notes that mention a security patch for operating systems, OR even the Direct3D environment. From what I remember, most of them detailed things being fixed within the game, irrespective of what OS players are using. So, again, As long as we can play the game with their requirement of Direct3D version 11, then they should not care what OS we use, as long as it supports Direct3d11, which windows 7, despite ALL of it's cons, fully supports! That's the bottom line no one seems to care about. For a bunch of opinionated posters (you, me, most of the posters here so far) that's fine, but for developers, and especially management of a company, in this case a gaming company, this should matter greatly. I mentioned before that I'm a lifetime sub and was made fun of for it by a fool. But between paying for subs for friends who could not afford it, and past occassional zen purchases (before I started getting annoyed with cryptic's/PW's gameing decisions) I have easily passed the $1000 mark in funds paid into this game. If STO could be properly taken care of, instead of being turned into a massive cash grab (like they sense the end and are trying for as much $$$ as they can get! idk.), who knows how much more I would have given. And I'm a Windows7 user, with an OS that, again, fully supports the graphics API STO's management wants to upgrade to And as proven from other posts on this topic thread, I'm not the only one. I have yet to hear/see any really valid reason why windows7 should be blocked, especially from the people that can actually answer this.
There's no point in trying to tell richard1279 anything. They know everything, and and anything they don't know they are not interested in knowing.
Here is a valid reason:
Love it or hate it, it doesn't matter. In the end, you decide.. upgrade or play something else.
Further debate is pointless, neither side is listening to the other. No argument in this thread will reverse or alter the decision, upgrade your OS or play a different game. Those are the options on the table.
To be fair though. Steam's Hardware Survey is optional and only represents a very small portion of Steam users.
True, though I am not sure that would create any bias in favor of a particular direction. That said, it's mostly for our personal guesstimation - Cryptic probably knows far better what its users are using and how many would be affected.
Right there with ya ... , with the exception of what you think of the devs .
Win XP & 7 have been the golden age for this OS and this game .
But at least it's been quite amusing to see those players who lose nothing , berating those who do . I would expect nothing less of this community .
You don't have to lose anything either, you choose to.
You can upgrade to Windows 10 right now.. you could run the OS inactivated for free or you can buy a key online for as little as $10, I buy keys all the time for friend/family builds.
If you're not using Windows 10, that's your choice and it's fine.. but you're not a victim here.
The behaviour of a lot of people replying to this news has been interesting. There is enough emboldened self-righteousness to go around. I don’t think much of those who are aggressively arguing that the change not be made. Some of them have been downright rude – and even ignorant.
Of course PWE has metrics on which is the most popular OS used by players of this game. Of course they get information back from the launcher with general info about the system you are running. It’s even stated in the T&C’s that they look at this.
The idea that there is a majority of people that this will affect is laughable. It is a minority that will be affected. And that minority do have a choice. Most of those against the change have stated they are making a choice not to change to Win 10 and have cited spurious facts about Win 7 and 10 that defy logic.
It comes down to choice. Choices have consequences, lets be clear on that. If you make a choice to use a depreciated OS you have to deal with the consequences of that. It is not down to the world to accommodate you. Software changes, so does hardware. There comes a natural point where if you don’t upgrade to keep up you will not be able to carry on as you are.
The new min hardware requirements are not brutal. They are not asking for the Sun, Moon and Earth. By the time these changes come into effect, Win 10 won’t even be the current iteration of that OS, as Win 11 will be live.
Choice, that’s the key word here. I accept your right to make what ever choice you make. But where I draw the line is where your choice prevents progress and security.
You don't have to lose anything either, you choose to.
You can upgrade to Windows 10 right now.. you could run the OS inactivated for free or you can buy a key online for as little as $10, I buy keys all the time for friend/family builds.
If you're not using Windows 10, that's your choice and it's fine.. but you're not a victim here. [/quote]
i would be interested in where you get a 10$ code for windows i have a relitive still using windows 8 for there os.
Often that is because of upgrades to the machine that trigger a certification check, which almost always results in invalidating the copy because of what amounts to a no-upgrade line in the terms of service (and yes, the higher-tier versions of Windows don't have that, but many people cannot afford both the upgrade and the high-end Windows package at the same time).
And no, I am not saying STO should keep the old minimums because the benefits do outweigh the downsides in this case, I am just pointing out that not all of the concern over it is unfounded or only a concern for digital hermits that have walled themselves away from the mainstream.
Indeed.
True.
That is also true, however neither I , or the person I quoted said anything of the sort .
Indeed.
But you make it sound like it's a choice between crossing the road now , or keep on going on this side of the sidewalk .
Some choices are more complicated then others , and some choices "offered" are little more then a coercion .
Ah, we get to the jack boots at last .
Or ... , you just find it acceptable that you're made to upgrade every 3-5 years .
Is that not also a choice ?
You choose to live by the diktat of the machine .
Interesting .
You're once again making arguments against nothing I , or the person I quoted said .
Ok. You seem to not be very clear on the concept of a choice that is self initiated (crossing the street now or later) , and a "choice" that is no choice at all (zero self initiation & being forced to choose) .
But I'm oh so glad that you drew the line where my choice "prevents progress and security".
Sounds totally sane . Honest .
You seem to know all about my PC issues & needs.
You seem to think that I have not read this thread (and your repetitive arguments within) .
And you seem to think that I offer no value to the Fleet that I'm in .
So let me return the favor by repeating what I said before :
It's been quite amusing to see those players who lose nothing , berating those who do . I would expect nothing less of this community .
Also, plz don't project your lack of victimhood onto me. It just looks bad .
This digital hermit is curious as to how many games have survived long enough to require 3 OS changes / upgrades ?
I'm asking since dropping support for Win 7 is STO's second such ... "choice" I believe they're calling it around here .
With the infusion of Nu Trek & the new OS on the horizon , STO might out live Win 10 -- making it the 3rd OS it leaves in the dust .
I get most of mine from this site. Currently, they're going for $20 but they sometimes get as low as $10-12. I have used several of their keys and had no issues. I once got a key that didn't work, I contacted them through their online messenger and they sent me a new key that worked, they were very responsive.
If you're going to argue against me, that's fine, but use arguments that I have actually made. You are taking a very disengenous stance in this thread and I'll just give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you don't intend to do so. When you argue against someone, you argue the points they have made, not the ones that you insert because they are easiest for you to argue against.
Cool, if we are just going to repeat ourselves..
You don't have to lose anything either, you choose to.
You can upgrade to Windows 10 right now.. you could run the OS inactivated for free or you can buy a key online for as little as $10, I buy keys all the time for friend/family builds.
If you're not using Windows 10, that's your choice and it's fine.. but you're not a victim here.
Thank you for taking the time to react, rather than respond.
You make it sound like people who keep there systems up to date are brain dead, or unable to make choices for themselves, that somehow Jack Boots are being used to stomp on your choice.
I thought, judging by your other replies, that you don't play the victim.
Choices have consequences - sometimes good, sometimes not so good. Freewill is awesome. Freewill means you have to take responsibility. It's the core of being an adult. It's the core of being human.
No one is forcing you to use an OS you don't want to use.
By all means carry on using Windows 7.
All that's happened is that you have been informed that as of February 2022 Star Trek Online will no longer support depreciated OS'. This is not only for performance, but for security as well - so that the game can continue to exist and have a future.
What you do with that information is a choice.