The current issue with adding stuff to the game from the current shows is that CBS/Viacom/Paramount doesn't tell Cryptic what is coming in advance. Most of the time the DEVs see stuff when we do (or slightly before but with no context. Before season 1 of Discovery aired the Devs got a look at the USS Discovery and noticed the saucer could spin but weren't told why.)
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
> @kayajay said: > It really would have. Starfleet/Daystrom would have had the Queen's remains from the Enterprise to study. Despite her flesh having been washed away, there still would have been DNA from her organic components. >
Is cloning legal in the Federation when genetic engineering appears to not to be? Although Star Trek is rarely consistent about anything, GE is specifically said to be illegal in “DS9: Dr. Bashir, I Presume?”
Many threads that examine the question tend to conclude: genetic engineering is banned but cloning is not. TNG “Unnatural Selection,” and “Up The Long Ladder,” tend to minimally condone cloning.
Ex Astris Scientia argues although the Enterprises (and Voyager) sometimes use genetics to “restore” characters, “Star Trek remains somewhat consistent with its negative stance on genetic engineering and cloning.”
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Cloning is treated as a moral gray area.
Genetic engineering is dependent on what you're doing. Gene therapy to deal with medical conditions is fine, but genetic augmentation to enhance the abilities of a person is a no go.
Well technically Picard doesn't quite fit the STO timeline either, being in 2399.
you are absolutely right good point!
Not really.
Yes really.
Rattler is right.
You are not.
What in Picard contradicts anything in STO? There are only two minor things. Data taking over B4 and Icheb and Icheb was removed from the game after Picard killed him off. Nothing that is earthshaking or gamebreaking.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Well technically Picard doesn't quite fit the STO timeline either, being in 2399.
you are absolutely right good point!
Not really.
Yes really.
Rattler is right.
You are not.
What in Picard contradicts anything in STO? There are only two minor things. Data taking over B4 and Icheb and Icheb was removed from the game after Picard killed him off. Nothing that is earthshaking or gamebreaking.
Actually, Hobus comes to mind as one point of disagreement. In PIC someone apparently didn't like the idea of Hobus taking out the nearest star systems to it with that variant of a Praxis-like subspace wave the way it happened in the old tie-in comic to the Kelvin stuff so they changed it to "the Romulan star".
That could have been an improvement if they had actually listened to their science advisor about supernovas, but instead of making the Romulan capital system a distant binary with a larger companion star going supernova a few light-weeks or light-months away and just frying the capital system with gamma rays and whatnot they made it far worse than the Hobus stuff by having the supernova rampaging across most of the RSE taking out all or most of its heavily populated and industrial worlds too.
That is especially bad since they apparently never even looked at the map they were showing in one of the scenes in PIC, if they had they would have seen that an omnidirectional "blast" of that magnitude would have taken out Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Bolus, and quite a few other major Federation worlds before it even reached half-way across the RSE territory (Romulus is actually very close to the Romulan/Federation border, in the upper left (sometimes referred to as "north east" corner of their territory, and some of their major worlds mentioned in other series are quite far to the "south" of that near Klingon space).
On the other hand, it is easy enough to ignore the inconsistency with PIC, they have already had to gloss over consistency problems and whatnot before to some extent in order to accommodate several timelines/universes coexisting in the game at once, especially since PIC has done little more than throwaway dialog about the supernova while the plot itself went in a different direction.
Well technically Picard doesn't quite fit the STO timeline either, being in 2399.
you are absolutely right good point!
Not really.
Yes really.
Rattler is right.
You are not.
What in Picard contradicts anything in STO? There are only two minor things. Data taking over B4 and Icheb and Icheb was removed from the game after Picard killed him off. Nothing that is earthshaking or gamebreaking.
Actually, Hobus comes to mind as one point of disagreement. In PIC someone apparently didn't like the idea of Hobus taking out the nearest star systems to it with that variant of a Praxis-like subspace wave the way it happened in the old tie-in comic to the Kelvin stuff so they changed it to "the Romulan star".
That could have been an improvement if they had actually listened to their science advisor about supernovas, but instead of making the Romulan capital system a distant binary with a larger companion star going supernova a few light-weeks or light-months away and just frying the capital system with gamma rays and whatnot they made it far worse than the Hobus stuff by having the supernova rampaging across most of the RSE taking out all or most of its heavily populated and industrial worlds too.
That is especially bad since they apparently never even looked at the map they were showing in one of the scenes in PIC, if they had they would have seen that an omnidirectional "blast" of that magnitude would have taken out Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Bolus, and quite a few other major Federation worlds before it even reached half-way across the RSE territory (Romulus is actually very close to the Romulan/Federation border, in the upper left (sometimes referred to as "north east" corner of their territory, and some of their major worlds mentioned in other series are quite far to the "south" of that near Klingon space).
On the other hand, it is easy enough to ignore the inconsistency with PIC, they have already had to gloss over consistency problems and whatnot before to some extent in order to accommodate several timelines/universes coexisting in the game at once, especially since PIC has done little more than throwaway dialog about the supernova while the plot itself went in a different direction.
Star Trek has never been hard science so I tend to give it some leeway. Couldn't Hobus and the Romulan Star be the same thing? I don't think the blast reaches halfway across the RSE territory. I haven't seen anything that shows the blast radius. Not sure if it's mentioned in the series or in the books. Couldn't the fact that the blast didn't reach the federation worlds be because Spock detonated the Red Matter to protect the federation (again not saying any of this is scientific accurate just going off what we see onscreen).
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Well technically Picard doesn't quite fit the STO timeline either, being in 2399.
you are absolutely right good point!
Not really.
Yes really.
Rattler is right.
You are not.
What in Picard contradicts anything in STO? There are only two minor things. Data taking over B4 and Icheb and Icheb was removed from the game after Picard killed him off. Nothing that is earthshaking or gamebreaking.
Actually, Hobus comes to mind as one point of disagreement. In PIC someone apparently didn't like the idea of Hobus taking out the nearest star systems to it with that variant of a Praxis-like subspace wave the way it happened in the old tie-in comic to the Kelvin stuff so they changed it to "the Romulan star".
That could have been an improvement if they had actually listened to their science advisor about supernovas, but instead of making the Romulan capital system a distant binary with a larger companion star going supernova a few light-weeks or light-months away and just frying the capital system with gamma rays and whatnot they made it far worse than the Hobus stuff by having the supernova rampaging across most of the RSE taking out all or most of its heavily populated and industrial worlds too.
That is especially bad since they apparently never even looked at the map they were showing in one of the scenes in PIC, if they had they would have seen that an omnidirectional "blast" of that magnitude would have taken out Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Bolus, and quite a few other major Federation worlds before it even reached half-way across the RSE territory (Romulus is actually very close to the Romulan/Federation border, in the upper left (sometimes referred to as "north east" corner of their territory, and some of their major worlds mentioned in other series are quite far to the "south" of that near Klingon space).
On the other hand, it is easy enough to ignore the inconsistency with PIC, they have already had to gloss over consistency problems and whatnot before to some extent in order to accommodate several timelines/universes coexisting in the game at once, especially since PIC has done little more than throwaway dialog about the supernova while the plot itself went in a different direction.
Star Trek has never been hard science so I tend to give it some leeway. Couldn't Hobus and the Romulan Star be the same thing? I don't think the blast reaches halfway across the RSE territory. I haven't seen anything that shows the blast radius. Not sure if it's mentioned in the series or in the books. Couldn't the fact that the blast didn't reach the federation worlds be because Spock detonated the Red Matter to protect the federation (again not saying any of this is scientific accurate just going off what we see onscreen).
According to the Kelvin material, including the comic and whatnot, Spock's plan was to use the red matter to sort of cast a shadow in the subspace blast front that would shelter the Romulan capital from its effects, and everything else of importance was too far away to be damaged. PIC on the other hand makes references to their "industrial worlds" being destroyed (or words to that effect) and other nonsense, and DSC apparently compounds it with the idea that Vulcan/Ni'Var could support both the Vulcans and the survivors from the RSE.
If things were angled just right that shadow might expand far enough to blunt the effect on Earth, Vulcan, and a few others in the cone (ignoring the tendency for such a shadow to have an umbra that blends down more of the shadow the further it gets from the shadowing object) but it would still devastate a very large chunk of the rest of the Federation core.
And, shadow hole or not, the blast wave would sweep past Earth, Vulcan, and other core worlds before it even made it as far as halfway down to the Southern part of the RSE down by the Klingon border where they had some of those major industrial colonies. It is simple geometry and the shape of the various national territories on the map (the RSE is long and narrow with Romulus near one end for instance).
You do have a point though that Star Trek has some science problems, though the majority of those started with the movie era.
TOS itself was actually more accurate to science as it was understood at the time than the rest (especially the soft sciences as it was soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi), mainly because the movies introduced a lot of ridiculous gaffs that the series avoided by doing things like always using warp drive (they only use impulse at all in about three or four out of the 79 episodes), and by keeping technobabble to a minimum and technology as abstracted and undefined as possible (and yes, they still made some mistakes, just nowhere near as many as the movies and later series).
Paramount Pictures (the movie division) actually wanted to do their take on Star Wars (Hollywood is full of lemmings like that) which was an entirely different subgenre (space opera) and so they pushed a lot of space opera nonsense into Star Trek when they thought they could get away with it.
> @phoenixc#0738 said: > According to the Kelvin material, including the comic and whatnot, Spock's plan was to use the red matter to sort of cast a shadow in the subspace blast front that would shelter the Romulan capital from its effects, and everything else of importance was too far away to be damaged. PIC on the other hand makes references to their "industrial worlds" being destroyed (or words to that effect) and other nonsense, and DSC apparently compounds it with the idea that Vulcan/Ni'Var could support both the Vulcans and the survivors from the RSE. > > If things were angled just right that shadow might expand far enough to blunt the effect on Earth, Vulcan, and a few others in the cone (ignoring the tendency for such a shadow to have an umbra that blends down more of the shadow the further it gets from the shadowing object) but it would still devastate a very large chunk of the rest of the Federation core. > > And, shadow hole or not, the blast wave would sweep past Earth, Vulcan, and other core worlds before it even made it as far as halfway down to the Southern part of the RSE down by the Klingon border where they had some of those major industrial colonies. It is simple geometry and the shape of the various national territories on the map (the RSE is long and narrow with Romulus near one end for instance). > > You do have a point though that Star Trek has some science problems, though the majority of those started with the movie era. > > TOS itself was actually more accurate to science as it was understood at the time than the rest (especially the soft sciences as it was soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi), mainly because the movies introduced a lot of ridiculous gaffs that the series avoided by doing things like always using warp drive (they only use impulse at all in about three or four out of the 79 episodes), and by keeping technobabble to a minimum and technology as abstracted and undefined as possible (and yes, they still made some mistakes, just nowhere near as many as the movies and later series). > > Paramount Pictures (the movie division) actually wanted to do their take on Star Wars (Hollywood is full of lemmings like that) which was an entirely different subgenre (space opera) and so they pushed a lot of space opera nonsense into Star Trek when they thought they could get away with it.
I’ll have to rewatch Picard again but I’m pretty sure they didn’t actually reference where the blast wave hit. So we never find out which planets other than Romulus gets destroyed. Industrial planets can be anywhere. Remus was described as having dilithium mines. Spock’s plan was ruined by the blast wave moving faster than he thought. We see this in the 2009 film.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> According to the Kelvin material, including the comic and whatnot, Spock's plan was to use the red matter to sort of cast a shadow in the subspace blast front that would shelter the Romulan capital from its effects, and everything else of importance was too far away to be damaged. PIC on the other hand makes references to their "industrial worlds" being destroyed (or words to that effect) and other nonsense, and DSC apparently compounds it with the idea that Vulcan/Ni'Var could support both the Vulcans and the survivors from the RSE.
>
> If things were angled just right that shadow might expand far enough to blunt the effect on Earth, Vulcan, and a few others in the cone (ignoring the tendency for such a shadow to have an umbra that blends down more of the shadow the further it gets from the shadowing object) but it would still devastate a very large chunk of the rest of the Federation core.
>
> And, shadow hole or not, the blast wave would sweep past Earth, Vulcan, and other core worlds before it even made it as far as halfway down to the Southern part of the RSE down by the Klingon border where they had some of those major industrial colonies. It is simple geometry and the shape of the various national territories on the map (the RSE is long and narrow with Romulus near one end for instance).
>
> You do have a point though that Star Trek has some science problems, though the majority of those started with the movie era.
>
> TOS itself was actually more accurate to science as it was understood at the time than the rest (especially the soft sciences as it was soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi), mainly because the movies introduced a lot of ridiculous gaffs that the series avoided by doing things like always using warp drive (they only use impulse at all in about three or four out of the 79 episodes), and by keeping technobabble to a minimum and technology as abstracted and undefined as possible (and yes, they still made some mistakes, just nowhere near as many as the movies and later series).
>
> Paramount Pictures (the movie division) actually wanted to do their take on Star Wars (Hollywood is full of lemmings like that) which was an entirely different subgenre (space opera) and so they pushed a lot of space opera nonsense into Star Trek when they thought they could get away with it.
I’ll have to rewatch Picard again but I’m pretty sure they didn’t actually reference where the blast wave hit. So we never find out which planets other than Romulus gets destroyed. Industrial planets can be anywhere. Remus was described as having dilithium mines. Spock’s plan was ruined by the blast wave moving faster than he thought. We see this in the 2009 film.
My point was that the blast wave could not have done significant damage to the RSE except in a small part of the north without dealing the Federation a vary heavy blow as well, and since it did not do anything to the Federation it could not have damaged much of of the RSE territory either. So the majority of their industry and population would have remained intact but PIC acts like it all but destroyed the RSE in its entirety.
And while in STO the RSE was torn apart, Hobus only destroyed the capital, it was internal factionalism and divisiveness (and Iconian manipulation) that tore it apart, not the explosion itself.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Having a centralized government with pretty much ALL the leaders on one world would be a devastating blow if the location was destroyed. No clear line of succession, no chain of command...
It would be chaos.
And Picard didn't explain the full extent. We only saw one successor faction (RFS), refugees, and a fanatic cult within the Tal Shiar (Zhat Vash). We don't really know the full extent of the fallout. There could be multiple factions that rose up in an attempt to either just survive or consolidate power. The RSE was pretty heavily influenced by Rome, so it is entirely possible that after losing Romulus the Star Empire fractured along "provincial" borders with some surviving military staking clames and civilians caught in the middle or staking claims of their own to survive.
Also... one thing that has remained consistant about Hobus is that it was unusual for a supernova. Where Hobus was could be anywhere honestly. Could even be the next system over. And them just calling it "The Romulan Star" could just be a generalization, describing any Star in Romulan space. Don't forget there were quite a few people who were clearly biased against the Romulans due to the long history of antagonistic behavior towards the Federation. So by generalizing Hobus to just "The Romulan Star"... they basically show they don't care. "To Hell with the Romulans and their territory. Why should the Federation care about an enemy?"
Basically... those biased individuals can't separate the Romulan people from the Romulan Star Empire, and just don't care.
Having a centralized government with pretty much ALL the leaders on one world would be a devastating blow if the location was destroyed. No clear line of succession, no chain of command...
It would be chaos.
And Picard didn't explain the full extent. We only saw one successor faction (RFS), refugees, and a fanatic cult within the Tal Shiar (Zhat Vash). We don't really know the full extent of the fallout. There could be multiple factions that rose up in an attempt to either just survive or consolidate power. The RSE was pretty heavily influenced by Rome, so it is entirely possible that after losing Romulus the Star Empire fractured along "provincial" borders with some surviving military staking clames and civilians caught in the middle or staking claims of their own to survive.
Also... one thing that has remained consistant about Hobus is that it was unusual for a supernova. Where Hobus was could be anywhere honestly. Could even be the next system over. And them just calling it "The Romulan Star" could just be a generalization, describing any Star in Romulan space. Don't forget there were quite a few people who were clearly biased against the Romulans due to the long history of antagonistic behavior towards the Federation. So by generalizing Hobus to just "The Romulan Star"... they basically show they don't care. "To Hell with the Romulans and their territory. Why should the Federation care about an enemy?"
Basically... those biased individuals can't separate the Romulan people from the Romulan Star Empire, and just don't care.
I don't get why these Hollywood types hate Star Trek's best villains, sure they're not Klingons, Borg or the Dominion, they truly don't understand the fans and It's not like you need much prosthetic make up since their whole hat is basically evil vulcans and being spies in space.
Having a centralized government with pretty much ALL the leaders on one world would be a devastating blow if the location was destroyed. No clear line of succession, no chain of command...
It would be chaos.
And Picard didn't explain the full extent. We only saw one successor faction (RFS), refugees, and a fanatic cult within the Tal Shiar (Zhat Vash). We don't really know the full extent of the fallout. There could be multiple factions that rose up in an attempt to either just survive or consolidate power. The RSE was pretty heavily influenced by Rome, so it is entirely possible that after losing Romulus the Star Empire fractured along "provincial" borders with some surviving military staking clames and civilians caught in the middle or staking claims of their own to survive.
Also... one thing that has remained consistant about Hobus is that it was unusual for a supernova. Where Hobus was could be anywhere honestly. Could even be the next system over. And them just calling it "The Romulan Star" could just be a generalization, describing any Star in Romulan space. Don't forget there were quite a few people who were clearly biased against the Romulans due to the long history of antagonistic behavior towards the Federation. So by generalizing Hobus to just "The Romulan Star"... they basically show they don't care. "To Hell with the Romulans and their territory. Why should the Federation care about an enemy?"
Basically... those biased individuals can't separate the Romulan people from the Romulan Star Empire, and just don't care.
I don't get why these Hollywood types hate Star Trek's best villains, sure they're not Klingons, Borg or the Dominion, they truly don't understand the fans and It's not like you need much prosthetic make up since their whole hat is basically evil vulcans and being spies in space.
The most interesting time for the Romulans (from a Federation-centric view) was the TOS era where their society and government were in flux because an elite element had grown to eclipse the republic structure they had before that and their military was an uneasy mix of both the old and the new systems. The Romulans were not "evil" as a whole yet, though that was rising and a Federation captain would not immediately know which they were facing, an uncertainty which had a lot of plot potential and would have added tension to any encounter.
Unfortunately, NBC kept cutting the per-episode budget every season and pointed ears were surprisingly expensive back then (which is why all but a few Romulans wore those ear-concealing helmets), especially since SFX costs were creeping upwards during the same time so the optical effects took more and more of that shrinking budget.
By the time the TNG era rolled around and appliances became so cheap that they were upholstering whole foreheads (and more) almost every episode and SFX costs went into freefall with CGI taking over a lot of it, the Romulans government had settled into that elitist mode where the old senate and praetor system was twisted into the oligarchy and emperor system with just the bare vestiges of the old system still existent. This made them mostly flat cardboard villains unfortunately and they (with a few exceptions) pretty much stayed that way until the resistance angle was started up in TNG's fifth season which added some of the interesting flux and depth back.
It isn't so much that Hollywood hated Romulans (well, aside from the bean counters in the '60s since they were a much more expensive makeup than the Klingons) it is more that between the expense and the fact that they were complex and not an immediately obvious trope type (and had some potentially offensive elements at a time very sensitive to such because of their WWII Germany ties from Balance of Terror being an adaption of the movie The Enemy Below ) they had trouble handling them and so never used them to their full potential.
What Emperor system? The RSE having an Emperor/Empress is a pure STO invention - even as far as Nemesis, which is the last time we saw any instance of the RSE government, they had a Praetor - even Shinzon called himself that.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
What Emperor system? The RSE having an Emperor/Empress is a pure STO invention - even as far as Nemesis, which is the last time we saw any instance of the RSE government, they had a Praetor - even Shinzon called himself that.
In some pre-STO EU materials the RSE had an emperor/empress in the past but the Preator is in essence a permanent viceroy (or vice imperator in this case as "roy" means "king") and the Imperial Throne sits empty (it's even called "The Empty Throne" in Elite Force 2).
It's possible this was the case in STO as well as it's a sign of hubris for Sela to have claimed the imperial throne for herself.
EDIT:It was actually called "The Empty Crown" in EF2 but the idea was the same.
> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> According to the Kelvin material, including the comic and whatnot, Spock's plan was to use the red matter to sort of cast a shadow in the subspace blast front that would shelter the Romulan capital from its effects, and everything else of importance was too far away to be damaged. PIC on the other hand makes references to their "industrial worlds" being destroyed (or words to that effect) and other nonsense, and DSC apparently compounds it with the idea that Vulcan/Ni'Var could support both the Vulcans and the survivors from the RSE.
>
> If things were angled just right that shadow might expand far enough to blunt the effect on Earth, Vulcan, and a few others in the cone (ignoring the tendency for such a shadow to have an umbra that blends down more of the shadow the further it gets from the shadowing object) but it would still devastate a very large chunk of the rest of the Federation core.
>
> And, shadow hole or not, the blast wave would sweep past Earth, Vulcan, and other core worlds before it even made it as far as halfway down to the Southern part of the RSE down by the Klingon border where they had some of those major industrial colonies. It is simple geometry and the shape of the various national territories on the map (the RSE is long and narrow with Romulus near one end for instance).
>
> You do have a point though that Star Trek has some science problems, though the majority of those started with the movie era.
>
> TOS itself was actually more accurate to science as it was understood at the time than the rest (especially the soft sciences as it was soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi), mainly because the movies introduced a lot of ridiculous gaffs that the series avoided by doing things like always using warp drive (they only use impulse at all in about three or four out of the 79 episodes), and by keeping technobabble to a minimum and technology as abstracted and undefined as possible (and yes, they still made some mistakes, just nowhere near as many as the movies and later series).
>
> Paramount Pictures (the movie division) actually wanted to do their take on Star Wars (Hollywood is full of lemmings like that) which was an entirely different subgenre (space opera) and so they pushed a lot of space opera nonsense into Star Trek when they thought they could get away with it.
I’ll have to rewatch Picard again but I’m pretty sure they didn’t actually reference where the blast wave hit. So we never find out which planets other than Romulus gets destroyed. Industrial planets can be anywhere. Remus was described as having dilithium mines. Spock’s plan was ruined by the blast wave moving faster than he thought. We see this in the 2009 film.
My point was that the blast wave could not have done significant damage to the RSE except in a small part of the north without dealing the Federation a vary heavy blow as well, and since it did not do anything to the Federation it could not have damaged much of of the RSE territory either. So the majority of their industry and population would have remained intact but PIC acts like it all but destroyed the RSE in its entirety.
And while in STO the RSE was torn apart, Hobus only destroyed the capital, it was internal factionalism and divisiveness (and Iconian manipulation) that tore it apart, not the explosion itself.
But couldn’t the fact that the blast didn’t hit The Federation be due to Spock’s intervention?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
What Emperor system? The RSE having an Emperor/Empress is a pure STO invention - even as far as Nemesis, which is the last time we saw any instance of the RSE government, they had a Praetor - even Shinzon called himself that.
I suppose I could have written that a bit clearer, I was not quite all the way awake.
It is true that they never changed the names of the government positions, that is part of what I was referring to as vestiges, but they did change their functions.
If you listen to the dialog between Mark Lenard's Romulan Commander and the old Centurion it is obvious that the Senate became corrupted and went from a relatively responsive to the needs of the people, equitable political body to an elitist hierarchy where individual power varies and who one knows and ingratiates themselves with is the most important factor, one that can even make a low ranking officer a danger to (and even force the hand of) the captain of a military ship.
Likewise, the Praetor seems to have gone from a sort of chairman, chancellor, or prime minister type position that oversaw the Senate and probably had a few administrative duties in addition to that, to a powerful semi-autocratic emperor-like position, again without a name change.
> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> According to the Kelvin material, including the comic and whatnot, Spock's plan was to use the red matter to sort of cast a shadow in the subspace blast front that would shelter the Romulan capital from its effects, and everything else of importance was too far away to be damaged. PIC on the other hand makes references to their "industrial worlds" being destroyed (or words to that effect) and other nonsense, and DSC apparently compounds it with the idea that Vulcan/Ni'Var could support both the Vulcans and the survivors from the RSE.
>
> If things were angled just right that shadow might expand far enough to blunt the effect on Earth, Vulcan, and a few others in the cone (ignoring the tendency for such a shadow to have an umbra that blends down more of the shadow the further it gets from the shadowing object) but it would still devastate a very large chunk of the rest of the Federation core.
>
> And, shadow hole or not, the blast wave would sweep past Earth, Vulcan, and other core worlds before it even made it as far as halfway down to the Southern part of the RSE down by the Klingon border where they had some of those major industrial colonies. It is simple geometry and the shape of the various national territories on the map (the RSE is long and narrow with Romulus near one end for instance).
>
> You do have a point though that Star Trek has some science problems, though the majority of those started with the movie era.
>
> TOS itself was actually more accurate to science as it was understood at the time than the rest (especially the soft sciences as it was soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi), mainly because the movies introduced a lot of ridiculous gaffs that the series avoided by doing things like always using warp drive (they only use impulse at all in about three or four out of the 79 episodes), and by keeping technobabble to a minimum and technology as abstracted and undefined as possible (and yes, they still made some mistakes, just nowhere near as many as the movies and later series).
>
> Paramount Pictures (the movie division) actually wanted to do their take on Star Wars (Hollywood is full of lemmings like that) which was an entirely different subgenre (space opera) and so they pushed a lot of space opera nonsense into Star Trek when they thought they could get away with it.
I’ll have to rewatch Picard again but I’m pretty sure they didn’t actually reference where the blast wave hit. So we never find out which planets other than Romulus gets destroyed. Industrial planets can be anywhere. Remus was described as having dilithium mines. Spock’s plan was ruined by the blast wave moving faster than he thought. We see this in the 2009 film.
My point was that the blast wave could not have done significant damage to the RSE except in a small part of the north without dealing the Federation a vary heavy blow as well, and since it did not do anything to the Federation it could not have damaged much of of the RSE territory either. So the majority of their industry and population would have remained intact but PIC acts like it all but destroyed the RSE in its entirety.
And while in STO the RSE was torn apart, Hobus only destroyed the capital, it was internal factionalism and divisiveness (and Iconian manipulation) that tore it apart, not the explosion itself.
But couldn’t the fact that the blast didn’t hit The Federation be due to Spock’s intervention?
It is vaguely possible, but the impression from the movie and comics is that the plan failed completely, which means it should not have had any positive effect on the Federation territory either if it spread the way PIC implies (in the Kelvin stuff it was only dangerous for a very limited range of lightyears, and the only major system in that range was the one containing Romulus).
If the PIC writers actually knew the material they were basing things on and left it as the limited area but deadly to the capital itself situation it would have made some sense. Even better would have been the distant binary scenario that would keep the necessary timing without the idiotic FTL explosion, but as usual Kurtzman's team took the least plausible, most Flash Gordon silly route for their plot.
What Emperor system? The RSE having an Emperor/Empress is a pure STO invention - even as far as Nemesis, which is the last time we saw any instance of the RSE government, they had a Praetor - even Shinzon called himself that.
I suppose I could have written that a bit clearer, I was not quite all the way awake.
It is true that they never changed the names of the government positions, that is part of what I was referring to as vestiges, but they did change their functions.
If you listen to the dialog between Mark Lenard's Romulan Commander and the old Centurion it is obvious that the Senate became corrupted and went from a relatively responsive to the needs of the people, equitable political body to an elitist hierarchy where individual power varies and who one knows and ingratiates themselves with is the most important factor, one that can even make a low ranking officer a danger to (and even force the hand of) the captain of a military ship.
Likewise, the Praetor seems to have gone from a sort of chairman, chancellor, or prime minister type position that oversaw the Senate and probably had a few administrative duties in addition to that, to a powerful semi-autocratic emperor-like position, again without a name change.
> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> According to the Kelvin material, including the comic and whatnot, Spock's plan was to use the red matter to sort of cast a shadow in the subspace blast front that would shelter the Romulan capital from its effects, and everything else of importance was too far away to be damaged. PIC on the other hand makes references to their "industrial worlds" being destroyed (or words to that effect) and other nonsense, and DSC apparently compounds it with the idea that Vulcan/Ni'Var could support both the Vulcans and the survivors from the RSE.
>
> If things were angled just right that shadow might expand far enough to blunt the effect on Earth, Vulcan, and a few others in the cone (ignoring the tendency for such a shadow to have an umbra that blends down more of the shadow the further it gets from the shadowing object) but it would still devastate a very large chunk of the rest of the Federation core.
>
> And, shadow hole or not, the blast wave would sweep past Earth, Vulcan, and other core worlds before it even made it as far as halfway down to the Southern part of the RSE down by the Klingon border where they had some of those major industrial colonies. It is simple geometry and the shape of the various national territories on the map (the RSE is long and narrow with Romulus near one end for instance).
>
> You do have a point though that Star Trek has some science problems, though the majority of those started with the movie era.
>
> TOS itself was actually more accurate to science as it was understood at the time than the rest (especially the soft sciences as it was soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi), mainly because the movies introduced a lot of ridiculous gaffs that the series avoided by doing things like always using warp drive (they only use impulse at all in about three or four out of the 79 episodes), and by keeping technobabble to a minimum and technology as abstracted and undefined as possible (and yes, they still made some mistakes, just nowhere near as many as the movies and later series).
>
> Paramount Pictures (the movie division) actually wanted to do their take on Star Wars (Hollywood is full of lemmings like that) which was an entirely different subgenre (space opera) and so they pushed a lot of space opera nonsense into Star Trek when they thought they could get away with it.
I’ll have to rewatch Picard again but I’m pretty sure they didn’t actually reference where the blast wave hit. So we never find out which planets other than Romulus gets destroyed. Industrial planets can be anywhere. Remus was described as having dilithium mines. Spock’s plan was ruined by the blast wave moving faster than he thought. We see this in the 2009 film.
My point was that the blast wave could not have done significant damage to the RSE except in a small part of the north without dealing the Federation a vary heavy blow as well, and since it did not do anything to the Federation it could not have damaged much of of the RSE territory either. So the majority of their industry and population would have remained intact but PIC acts like it all but destroyed the RSE in its entirety.
And while in STO the RSE was torn apart, Hobus only destroyed the capital, it was internal factionalism and divisiveness (and Iconian manipulation) that tore it apart, not the explosion itself.
But couldn’t the fact that the blast didn’t hit The Federation be due to Spock’s intervention?
It is vaguely possible, but the impression from the movie and comics is that the plan failed completely, which means it should not have had any positive effect on the Federation territory either if it spread the way PIC implies (in the Kelvin stuff it was only dangerous for a very limited range of lightyears, and the only major system in that range was the one containing Romulus).
If the PIC writers actually knew the material they were basing things on and left it as the limited area but deadly to the capital itself situation it would have made some sense. Even better would have been the distant binary scenario that would keep the necessary timing without the idiotic FTL explosion, but as usual Kurtzman's team took the least plausible, most Flash Gordon silly route for their plot.
I'd also like to know where in Picard anyone said anything about the supernova destroying planets other than Romulus and Remus - I don't remember that at all.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Well, we do already have a lot from Picard. The Zhat Vash weapon, Seven's pistols, the La Sirenna and the Impossible Devices are Picard, aren't they?
Here's the thing... those were added in after the fact, and other than Seven showing up and mentioning the Fenris Rangers, we have no actual story stuff from Picard. Don't forget that the story of Star Trek Online was started long before Picard was even a thing. So its entirely possible that CBS will go off in their own direction and not have the events of STO considered at all. We may not see a Fed-Klingon War starting up in 2401, in which case STO would cease to be Prime Universe and be a branched off reality off the Prime.
The Devs have said that they will try to keep things in line with the establishing canon, but if it diverges too far from STO to reconcile, they'll just just call it an alternate reality because at that point you'd might as well have to make a new game to line up with canon as established by CBS. We already have one divergent event. Data visiting Sela in prison to talk about Tasha Yar, which was established before Picard confirmed Data is absolutely 100% dead long before that event in... I wanna say 2411. (Data having survived via memory engrams, after blowing up in 2378 aboard the Scimitar, before asking Picard to pull them and thus ending his existence.)
So... by the time Data visited Sela... in canon Data had been dead for 12 years.
yes, but that was Data's engrams.. presumably salvaged from the scimitar? it's never explained. STO says Geordi unlocks data from B4.. so it is possible that both may occur, though I do not know when Data is unlocked.
We Need BERETS in the tailor
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
yes, but that was Data's engrams.. presumably salvaged from the scimitar? it's never explained. STO says Geordi unlocks data from B4.. so it is possible that both may occur, though I do not know when Data is unlocked.
Well... Data did connect to B4, I think to see if a memory transfer or something will work. At the end of the movie B4 did kinda sing the song Data had sung earlier in the movie, which indicated that although being an older model, Data's memories were actually manifesting a bit in B4.
Its been a while since I saw Nemesis. And honestly its not one of my favorites.
yes, but that was Data's engrams.. presumably salvaged from the scimitar? it's never explained. STO says Geordi unlocks data from B4.. so it is possible that both may occur, though I do not know when Data is unlocked.
Well... Data did connect to B4, I think to see if a memory transfer or something will work. At the end of the movie B4 did kinda sing the song Data had sung earlier in the movie, which indicated that although being an older model, Data's memories were actually manifesting a bit in B4.
Its been a while since I saw Nemesis. And honestly its not one of my favorites.
I personally loved what the comics and the novels did, with Data being reborn through B4. It was so disappointing to just see him in a draw. And something that still REALLY annoys me...a biological son? Noonian famous considered androids his children and if he ever had had a child, it would have been with Julianna! I'm just disappointed Lore hadn't made an appearance. If he'd been behind the androids the whole time, then great, or if he'd been supposedly rehabilitated, but still evil. If that son had actually been Lore and especially...have Julianna there and the one who did all this.
Fionnula Flanagan would have cameo'd. It could be that after Data's death, she discovered her true nature and wanted to do more. That would have been a fantastic twist.
Lore and or Julianna in there somewhere...not a few schizophrenic androids, a biological son who had the power and audacity to switch them off with a remote and some greater backstory.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
I think Lore is still stored in a high security area of the Daystrom Institute. B4's parts were more easily accessable because he wasn't a verified threat. Lore is.
if Lore did show up Picard, the bad guys would win, Lore is a psychopath, Picard's speech wouldn't sway him, he'll just summon RoboCthulu without hesitation, also TNG tried to make evil versions of the Enterprise D Crew without using the mirror universe, we have Lore, Tom Riker and Shinzon, Just need evil Beverley, evil Worf, evil Troi and evil Geordi and we'll have an entire terran bridge crew.
I think Lore is still stored in a high security area of the Daystrom Institute. B4's parts were more easily accessable because he wasn't a verified threat. Lore is.
A great twist would have been for Lore to have escaped, pretended to be a functional B4 and popped the real B4 in his draw in his place.
I think Lore is still stored in a high security area of the Daystrom Institute. B4's parts were more easily accessable because he wasn't a verified threat. Lore is.
A great twist would have been for Lore to have escaped, pretended to be a functional B4 and popped the real B4 in his draw in his place.
A great twist would have been for Lore to have escaped, pretended to be a functional B4 and popped the real B4 in his draw in his place.
This wouldn't make any sense.
The Federation almost certainly has Lore's disassembled pieces in ultra secure lockdown, alongside the box containing the Moriarty holo-program. If someone put him back together, and he got out, there would be a pretty big manhunt for him given his known past actions of getting entire colonies destroyed, and trying to work with the Borg.
Oh yes, because there's no "human" error in Starfleet or the Federation. What was Bruce up to again and when android research was PAINFULLY illegal, despite the life and death situation of William T. Riker's son?
Comments
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
> It really would have. Starfleet/Daystrom would have had the Queen's remains from the Enterprise to study. Despite her flesh having been washed away, there still would have been DNA from her organic components.
>
Is cloning legal in the Federation when genetic engineering appears to not to be? Although Star Trek is rarely consistent about anything, GE is specifically said to be illegal in “DS9: Dr. Bashir, I Presume?”
Many threads that examine the question tend to conclude: genetic engineering is banned but cloning is not. TNG “Unnatural Selection,” and “Up The Long Ladder,” tend to minimally condone cloning.
Ex Astris Scientia argues although the Enterprises (and Voyager) sometimes use genetics to “restore” characters, “Star Trek remains somewhat consistent with its negative stance on genetic engineering and cloning.”
https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/genetic_engineering.htm
Reddit’s Daystrom Institute also has a dissertation on the topic.
https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/3deph2/cloning_and_star_trek/
Genetic engineering is dependent on what you're doing. Gene therapy to deal with medical conditions is fine, but genetic augmentation to enhance the abilities of a person is a no go.
Yes really.
Rattler is right.
You are not.
What in Picard contradicts anything in STO? There are only two minor things. Data taking over B4 and Icheb and Icheb was removed from the game after Picard killed him off. Nothing that is earthshaking or gamebreaking.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually, Hobus comes to mind as one point of disagreement. In PIC someone apparently didn't like the idea of Hobus taking out the nearest star systems to it with that variant of a Praxis-like subspace wave the way it happened in the old tie-in comic to the Kelvin stuff so they changed it to "the Romulan star".
That could have been an improvement if they had actually listened to their science advisor about supernovas, but instead of making the Romulan capital system a distant binary with a larger companion star going supernova a few light-weeks or light-months away and just frying the capital system with gamma rays and whatnot they made it far worse than the Hobus stuff by having the supernova rampaging across most of the RSE taking out all or most of its heavily populated and industrial worlds too.
That is especially bad since they apparently never even looked at the map they were showing in one of the scenes in PIC, if they had they would have seen that an omnidirectional "blast" of that magnitude would have taken out Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Bolus, and quite a few other major Federation worlds before it even reached half-way across the RSE territory (Romulus is actually very close to the Romulan/Federation border, in the upper left (sometimes referred to as "north east" corner of their territory, and some of their major worlds mentioned in other series are quite far to the "south" of that near Klingon space).
On the other hand, it is easy enough to ignore the inconsistency with PIC, they have already had to gloss over consistency problems and whatnot before to some extent in order to accommodate several timelines/universes coexisting in the game at once, especially since PIC has done little more than throwaway dialog about the supernova while the plot itself went in a different direction.
Star Trek has never been hard science so I tend to give it some leeway. Couldn't Hobus and the Romulan Star be the same thing? I don't think the blast reaches halfway across the RSE territory. I haven't seen anything that shows the blast radius. Not sure if it's mentioned in the series or in the books. Couldn't the fact that the blast didn't reach the federation worlds be because Spock detonated the Red Matter to protect the federation (again not saying any of this is scientific accurate just going off what we see onscreen).
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
According to the Kelvin material, including the comic and whatnot, Spock's plan was to use the red matter to sort of cast a shadow in the subspace blast front that would shelter the Romulan capital from its effects, and everything else of importance was too far away to be damaged. PIC on the other hand makes references to their "industrial worlds" being destroyed (or words to that effect) and other nonsense, and DSC apparently compounds it with the idea that Vulcan/Ni'Var could support both the Vulcans and the survivors from the RSE.
If things were angled just right that shadow might expand far enough to blunt the effect on Earth, Vulcan, and a few others in the cone (ignoring the tendency for such a shadow to have an umbra that blends down more of the shadow the further it gets from the shadowing object) but it would still devastate a very large chunk of the rest of the Federation core.
And, shadow hole or not, the blast wave would sweep past Earth, Vulcan, and other core worlds before it even made it as far as halfway down to the Southern part of the RSE down by the Klingon border where they had some of those major industrial colonies. It is simple geometry and the shape of the various national territories on the map (the RSE is long and narrow with Romulus near one end for instance).
You do have a point though that Star Trek has some science problems, though the majority of those started with the movie era.
TOS itself was actually more accurate to science as it was understood at the time than the rest (especially the soft sciences as it was soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi), mainly because the movies introduced a lot of ridiculous gaffs that the series avoided by doing things like always using warp drive (they only use impulse at all in about three or four out of the 79 episodes), and by keeping technobabble to a minimum and technology as abstracted and undefined as possible (and yes, they still made some mistakes, just nowhere near as many as the movies and later series).
Paramount Pictures (the movie division) actually wanted to do their take on Star Wars (Hollywood is full of lemmings like that) which was an entirely different subgenre (space opera) and so they pushed a lot of space opera nonsense into Star Trek when they thought they could get away with it.
> According to the Kelvin material, including the comic and whatnot, Spock's plan was to use the red matter to sort of cast a shadow in the subspace blast front that would shelter the Romulan capital from its effects, and everything else of importance was too far away to be damaged. PIC on the other hand makes references to their "industrial worlds" being destroyed (or words to that effect) and other nonsense, and DSC apparently compounds it with the idea that Vulcan/Ni'Var could support both the Vulcans and the survivors from the RSE.
>
> If things were angled just right that shadow might expand far enough to blunt the effect on Earth, Vulcan, and a few others in the cone (ignoring the tendency for such a shadow to have an umbra that blends down more of the shadow the further it gets from the shadowing object) but it would still devastate a very large chunk of the rest of the Federation core.
>
> And, shadow hole or not, the blast wave would sweep past Earth, Vulcan, and other core worlds before it even made it as far as halfway down to the Southern part of the RSE down by the Klingon border where they had some of those major industrial colonies. It is simple geometry and the shape of the various national territories on the map (the RSE is long and narrow with Romulus near one end for instance).
>
> You do have a point though that Star Trek has some science problems, though the majority of those started with the movie era.
>
> TOS itself was actually more accurate to science as it was understood at the time than the rest (especially the soft sciences as it was soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi), mainly because the movies introduced a lot of ridiculous gaffs that the series avoided by doing things like always using warp drive (they only use impulse at all in about three or four out of the 79 episodes), and by keeping technobabble to a minimum and technology as abstracted and undefined as possible (and yes, they still made some mistakes, just nowhere near as many as the movies and later series).
>
> Paramount Pictures (the movie division) actually wanted to do their take on Star Wars (Hollywood is full of lemmings like that) which was an entirely different subgenre (space opera) and so they pushed a lot of space opera nonsense into Star Trek when they thought they could get away with it.
I’ll have to rewatch Picard again but I’m pretty sure they didn’t actually reference where the blast wave hit. So we never find out which planets other than Romulus gets destroyed. Industrial planets can be anywhere. Remus was described as having dilithium mines. Spock’s plan was ruined by the blast wave moving faster than he thought. We see this in the 2009 film.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My point was that the blast wave could not have done significant damage to the RSE except in a small part of the north without dealing the Federation a vary heavy blow as well, and since it did not do anything to the Federation it could not have damaged much of of the RSE territory either. So the majority of their industry and population would have remained intact but PIC acts like it all but destroyed the RSE in its entirety.
And while in STO the RSE was torn apart, Hobus only destroyed the capital, it was internal factionalism and divisiveness (and Iconian manipulation) that tore it apart, not the explosion itself.
It would be chaos.
And Picard didn't explain the full extent. We only saw one successor faction (RFS), refugees, and a fanatic cult within the Tal Shiar (Zhat Vash). We don't really know the full extent of the fallout. There could be multiple factions that rose up in an attempt to either just survive or consolidate power. The RSE was pretty heavily influenced by Rome, so it is entirely possible that after losing Romulus the Star Empire fractured along "provincial" borders with some surviving military staking clames and civilians caught in the middle or staking claims of their own to survive.
Also... one thing that has remained consistant about Hobus is that it was unusual for a supernova. Where Hobus was could be anywhere honestly. Could even be the next system over. And them just calling it "The Romulan Star" could just be a generalization, describing any Star in Romulan space. Don't forget there were quite a few people who were clearly biased against the Romulans due to the long history of antagonistic behavior towards the Federation. So by generalizing Hobus to just "The Romulan Star"... they basically show they don't care. "To Hell with the Romulans and their territory. Why should the Federation care about an enemy?"
Basically... those biased individuals can't separate the Romulan people from the Romulan Star Empire, and just don't care.
I don't get why these Hollywood types hate Star Trek's best villains, sure they're not Klingons, Borg or the Dominion, they truly don't understand the fans and It's not like you need much prosthetic make up since their whole hat is basically evil vulcans and being spies in space.
The most interesting time for the Romulans (from a Federation-centric view) was the TOS era where their society and government were in flux because an elite element had grown to eclipse the republic structure they had before that and their military was an uneasy mix of both the old and the new systems. The Romulans were not "evil" as a whole yet, though that was rising and a Federation captain would not immediately know which they were facing, an uncertainty which had a lot of plot potential and would have added tension to any encounter.
Unfortunately, NBC kept cutting the per-episode budget every season and pointed ears were surprisingly expensive back then (which is why all but a few Romulans wore those ear-concealing helmets), especially since SFX costs were creeping upwards during the same time so the optical effects took more and more of that shrinking budget.
By the time the TNG era rolled around and appliances became so cheap that they were upholstering whole foreheads (and more) almost every episode and SFX costs went into freefall with CGI taking over a lot of it, the Romulans government had settled into that elitist mode where the old senate and praetor system was twisted into the oligarchy and emperor system with just the bare vestiges of the old system still existent. This made them mostly flat cardboard villains unfortunately and they (with a few exceptions) pretty much stayed that way until the resistance angle was started up in TNG's fifth season which added some of the interesting flux and depth back.
It isn't so much that Hollywood hated Romulans (well, aside from the bean counters in the '60s since they were a much more expensive makeup than the Klingons) it is more that between the expense and the fact that they were complex and not an immediately obvious trope type (and had some potentially offensive elements at a time very sensitive to such because of their WWII Germany ties from Balance of Terror being an adaption of the movie The Enemy Below ) they had trouble handling them and so never used them to their full potential.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
In some pre-STO EU materials the RSE had an emperor/empress in the past but the Preator is in essence a permanent viceroy (or vice imperator in this case as "roy" means "king") and the Imperial Throne sits empty (it's even called "The Empty Throne" in Elite Force 2).
It's possible this was the case in STO as well as it's a sign of hubris for Sela to have claimed the imperial throne for herself.
EDIT:It was actually called "The Empty Crown" in EF2 but the idea was the same.
But couldn’t the fact that the blast didn’t hit The Federation be due to Spock’s intervention?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I suppose I could have written that a bit clearer, I was not quite all the way awake.
It is true that they never changed the names of the government positions, that is part of what I was referring to as vestiges, but they did change their functions.
If you listen to the dialog between Mark Lenard's Romulan Commander and the old Centurion it is obvious that the Senate became corrupted and went from a relatively responsive to the needs of the people, equitable political body to an elitist hierarchy where individual power varies and who one knows and ingratiates themselves with is the most important factor, one that can even make a low ranking officer a danger to (and even force the hand of) the captain of a military ship.
Likewise, the Praetor seems to have gone from a sort of chairman, chancellor, or prime minister type position that oversaw the Senate and probably had a few administrative duties in addition to that, to a powerful semi-autocratic emperor-like position, again without a name change.
It is vaguely possible, but the impression from the movie and comics is that the plan failed completely, which means it should not have had any positive effect on the Federation territory either if it spread the way PIC implies (in the Kelvin stuff it was only dangerous for a very limited range of lightyears, and the only major system in that range was the one containing Romulus).
If the PIC writers actually knew the material they were basing things on and left it as the limited area but deadly to the capital itself situation it would have made some sense. Even better would have been the distant binary scenario that would keep the necessary timing without the idiotic FTL explosion, but as usual Kurtzman's team took the least plausible, most Flash Gordon silly route for their plot.
great reasoning!
100% right on all points.
good job!
thank you!!!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
yes, but that was Data's engrams.. presumably salvaged from the scimitar? it's never explained. STO says Geordi unlocks data from B4.. so it is possible that both may occur, though I do not know when Data is unlocked.
Well... Data did connect to B4, I think to see if a memory transfer or something will work. At the end of the movie B4 did kinda sing the song Data had sung earlier in the movie, which indicated that although being an older model, Data's memories were actually manifesting a bit in B4.
Its been a while since I saw Nemesis. And honestly its not one of my favorites.
I personally loved what the comics and the novels did, with Data being reborn through B4. It was so disappointing to just see him in a draw. And something that still REALLY annoys me...a biological son? Noonian famous considered androids his children and if he ever had had a child, it would have been with Julianna! I'm just disappointed Lore hadn't made an appearance. If he'd been behind the androids the whole time, then great, or if he'd been supposedly rehabilitated, but still evil. If that son had actually been Lore and especially...have Julianna there and the one who did all this.
Fionnula Flanagan would have cameo'd. It could be that after Data's death, she discovered her true nature and wanted to do more. That would have been a fantastic twist.
Lore and or Julianna in there somewhere...not a few schizophrenic androids, a biological son who had the power and audacity to switch them off with a remote and some greater backstory.
A great twist would have been for Lore to have escaped, pretended to be a functional B4 and popped the real B4 in his draw in his place.
great idea!
that would be so much fun!
Oh yes, because there's no "human" error in Starfleet or the Federation. What was Bruce up to again and when android research was PAINFULLY illegal, despite the life and death situation of William T. Riker's son?