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Removing (some) unique item restrictions

fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
For some items it makes sense that there are restrictions to how many you can put on your ship. A ship with only Delphic tear generators might be game-breaking, just like having a ship with 12 shield-bypassing quantum warhead modules could be op.

For other items though, I'd like to suggest reviewing whether it's really necessary to allow only one of those things to be equipped. Why can't we fly ships with two or three disruptor torpedoes? Or phaser ones? Why can't we use multiple Advanced Thoron infused beam arrays?

In many cases, allowing multiple copies of an item to be used wouldn't be game breaking (torpedoes still have only single-attack Boff boosts, special reputation weapons have only a minor additional chance to apply their special effects).
But it would allow players to further customise their ships and fly them the way they want. Furthermore, since we have heard often that we won't get the ability to customise our weapons, why not let players at least use multiple copies of that special weapon they might want for their build?

Basically, it would solve the issue of not being able to adapt the colours of weapons, and at the same time allow more diversification of builds.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,689 Community Moderator
    I think, in the case of the rep weapons, that the set piece item is a close match for the non set piece versions we can get from the same rep.
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  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    becuase they still won't let you have more than 2 energy omnis, and only 3 if you use the KCB
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  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    nixie50 wrote: »
    becuase they still won't let you have more than 2 energy omnis, and only 3 if you use the KCB

    I'm one of those that think the restriction of 1 Omni of a set & 1 non-set Omni should go the way of the dodo.

    The Omnis aren't powerful enough if one wanted all Omnis they'll become OP.

    Let players go "rainbow' Omnis, & let players go all Omnis of 1 energy type, it's not going to be OP.
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  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    becuase they still won't let you have more than 2 energy omnis, and only 3 if you use the KCB

    I'm one of those that think the restriction of 1 Omni of a set & 1 non-set Omni should go the way of the dodo.

    The Omnis aren't powerful enough if one wanted all Omnis they'll become OP.

    Let players go "rainbow' Omnis, & let players go all Omnis of 1 energy type, it's not going to be OP.
    It does effect the game as far as encouraging skillful play though. So I don't really agree, if you want a 360 build use turrets? Because if omni stop being restricted you might as well up turret damage and single cannons.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    becuase they still won't let you have more than 2 energy omnis, and only 3 if you use the KCB

    I'm one of those that think the restriction of 1 Omni of a set & 1 non-set Omni should go the way of the dodo.

    The Omnis aren't powerful enough if one wanted all Omnis they'll become OP.

    Let players go "rainbow' Omnis, & let players go all Omnis of 1 energy type, it's not going to be OP.
    It does effect the game as far as encouraging skillful play though. So I don't really agree, if you want a 360 build use turrets? Because if omni stop being restricted you might as well up turret damage and single cannons.

    Players could have a preference for beam visuals though.

    Generally I would say that the restrictions on omni-beams kind of make sense. At least when it's for the same energy type. I don't see why we can't have the ability to use a phaser, AP, polaron and disruptor omni-beam at the same time though.
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    becuase they still won't let you have more than 2 energy omnis, and only 3 if you use the KCB

    I'm one of those that think the restriction of 1 Omni of a set & 1 non-set Omni should go the way of the dodo.

    The Omnis aren't powerful enough if one wanted all Omnis they'll become OP.

    Let players go "rainbow' Omnis, & let players go all Omnis of 1 energy type, it's not going to be OP.
    It does effect the game as far as encouraging skillful play though. So I don't really agree, if you want a 360 build use turrets? Because if omni stop being restricted you might as well up turret damage and single cannons.

    Players could have a preference for beam visuals though.

    Generally I would say that the restrictions on omni-beams kind of make sense. At least when it's for the same energy type. I don't see why we can't have the ability to use a phaser, AP, polaron and disruptor omni-beam at the same time though.

    cuz then you still get the effect of turrets with higher power dmg. so, in this case nixie is correct.
    but ill ask you why you think different types should be allowed but not the same type? seems odd to say you can have 6 omni beams with diff energy types, but only one of each vs 6 phaser. odd.

    Because you'd still have the drawback of using 6 different energy types. Which is - generally speaking - less efficient than using 1 type.
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  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    becuase they still won't let you have more than 2 energy omnis, and only 3 if you use the KCB

    I'm one of those that think the restriction of 1 Omni of a set & 1 non-set Omni should go the way of the dodo.

    The Omnis aren't powerful enough if one wanted all Omnis they'll become OP.

    Let players go "rainbow' Omnis, & let players go all Omnis of 1 energy type, it's not going to be OP.
    It does effect the game as far as encouraging skillful play though. So I don't really agree, if you want a 360 build use turrets? Because if omni stop being restricted you might as well up turret damage and single cannons.

    Players could have a preference for beam visuals though.

    Generally I would say that the restrictions on omni-beams kind of make sense. At least when it's for the same energy type. I don't see why we can't have the ability to use a phaser, AP, polaron and disruptor omni-beam at the same time though.

    cuz then you still get the effect of turrets with higher power dmg. so, in this case nixie is correct.
    but ill ask you why you think different types should be allowed but not the same type? seems odd to say you can have 6 omni beams with diff energy types, but only one of each vs 6 phaser. odd.

    Because you'd still have the drawback of using 6 different energy types. Which is - generally speaking - less efficient than using 1 type.

    right, but you also get the benefit of 360 fire arc which is solely for turrets (aside from the one omni allowed on a ship).
    lets be honest here. many want the omnis for the 360 arc and dmg output with it.
    for me, i am good with the way it is now in limiting it to one per ship. (although i think someone posted they got two on a ship somehow. dont quote me on that, but i think they did)

    You can, one set or special omni. As well as one crafted omni. You can have up to two, the only reason to increase this that has some solid reasoning to me, is to make 4/4 layouts better by increasing it to 3 or 4. I don't think unlimited would be healthy for the game though.
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  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,943 Arc User
    I agree with the projectile weapons. even today our missiles have waypoints. you shoot the thing 90 degrees off axis to get a different bearing when it is detected, so any counter fire is headed the wrong way. BUT to prevent power creep, the damage would need to be softened, or the mechanics of high yeild and spread need to be reworked.
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,890 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    The narrow forward arc for torpedoes goes back to the original photon torpedo description in the TOS series bible that mentions that they are launched and kicked up to speed via dedicated tractors (actually pressors) in the tubes similar to the way jets are launched by catapult on present day carriers. They didn't start acting like current seeker missiles (with pitiful warhead yields no less) until Wrath of Khan (which annoyed Roddenberry no end, btw).
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,505 Arc User
    Try using this console which turns all non cluster torpedoes into 360 torps:
    https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Console_-_Universal_-_Ionized_Gas_Sensor
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,822 Community Moderator
    Set items are meant to be one off items and it's not intended for you to have an entire ship full of them. Otherwise the restrictions on Omni beams needs to go as there is no valid gameplay reason for it to exist today, especially when we can have a full turrets build. Years ago I was told the chief reason Omnis are restricted wasn't actually due to gameplay stuff, but because of the hardpoints they use. Such as an omni firing from the back of the ship, but it appears you're firing through the ship itself due to how it's all programmed. Personally I would think that would be an easy thing to work around by allowing it to fire from more than one hardpoint or something along those lines, but I digress.
    I'm for removing the unique restrictions on some things. Or at least updating many of the "limited to X kind of ship" restrictions to include ships released later.

    But some things, like omnis, should stay restricted. Removing restrictions on omnis just makes them the indisputable best weapon to use, which is bad for the game.

    What is "best" is relative in this game. In order to utilize an omni you're giving up a DMG or CrtD mod that could otherwise have. If someone were to run a full set of 8 omnis on a ship, that's 8 Crtd or 8 DMG mods they've given up, which is 2 full weapons worth of mods. I hardly call that "best"
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,890 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    If a complete removal of the restriction on omnis is too unbalancing then a compromise of either allowing the option of up to two special/set omnis instead of just one-and-one (for two total omnis) or two special/set and one crafted (for three total omnis, not counting the KCB which is more like a torpedo in effect) would be great since it would allow forward-attack style beam ships to use two sets that include omnis.

    Right now, certain combinations of sets are impossible to do without resorting to a mix of beams and cannons because they either have omni/turret, omni/DHC (or DC), or similar choice patterns for the energy weapons.

    It would also allow those forward-oriented attack beam boats to run two omnis before Tier XII, the minimum you can run a crafted one. And yes, I know there is a trait that ties cannons and beams together temporarily so you don't have to run both skill sets but it is not a viable solution for most non-whale players.
  • sci321sci321 Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    I honestly find it weird that some people unironically believe that, should the restriction of one set omni and one non-set omni be removed, omni only builds would take over the meta. Realistically, I only see them becoming the beam equivalent to turret only builds, something some people will do for the novelty, but only dedicated DPS chasers will do well with.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,899 Arc User
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    becuase they still won't let you have more than 2 energy omnis, and only 3 if you use the KCB

    I'm one of those that think the restriction of 1 Omni of a set & 1 non-set Omni should go the way of the dodo.

    The Omnis aren't powerful enough if one wanted all Omnis they'll become OP.

    Let players go "rainbow' Omnis, & let players go all Omnis of 1 energy type, it's not going to be OP.
    It does effect the game as far as encouraging skillful play though. So I don't really agree, if you want a 360 build use turrets? Because if omni stop being restricted you might as well up turret damage and single cannons.

    Players could have a preference for beam visuals though.

    Generally I would say that the restrictions on omni-beams kind of make sense. At least when it's for the same energy type. I don't see why we can't have the ability to use a phaser, AP, polaron and disruptor omni-beam at the same time though.

    Turrets were designed to be the back weapons of a cannon ship, they do little damage but they're better than throwing beams or torpedoes back there.

    Omni's on the other hand are beams that do slightly less damage and have a full 360 degree arc

    If you put a turret ship vs a full omni ship (even if it was a rainbow type build) 10 times out of 10 the omni ship would win

    Being able to keep weapons up 100% of the time with no real penalty at all just gives a large advantage.
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