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What if the Borg got serious?

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  • diocletian#7546 diocletian Member Posts: 131 Arc User
    I would like to see a break from the great galactic threat situation and have a story arc more limited in scale and location. A problem to solve, but more local in nature. Instead of a big galactic scale story arc, more like a series of episodes like TOS, TNG, or VOY. Each a stand alone story.

    Maybe have the Borg or Tholians pop in for an episode, but that is it.
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    Which version of Skeletor are we talking about? Original comics Skeletor? Skeletor from the 80s cartoon? Skeletor from the Dolph Lundgren movie? Skeletor from the early 2000s cartoon? Nu-Skeletor from the disaster of this new dumpster fire of a show that Netflix pumped out for the Teela and girlfriend show?
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,007 Community Moderator
    I don't recall them saying that. Al Rivera has been pretty adamant in the past that cryptic doesn't like doing one offs.

    I think it was in one of the livestreams where they made a passing reference to future plans, and how many story arcs they actually have planned.
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    Which version of Skeletor are we talking about? Original comics Skeletor? Skeletor from the 80s cartoon? Skeletor from the Dolph Lundgren movie? Skeletor from the early 2000s cartoon? Nu-Skeletor from the disaster of this new dumpster fire of a show that Netflix pumped out for the Teela and girlfriend show?

    Probably a mix of Movie and 80s Cartoon. Hakeev had a couple genius moments, but for the most part he was kind of a one trick pony, and the VO kinda makes him a bit comical when you combine that gravely voice with the script. The obvious moustache twirling he does when he talks about how the Iconians are all powerful and the galaxy is doomed.

    Honestly I like how he dies when you play a Romulan. Feels more satisfying. Then again he did have a hand in messing with the Player's head so it was more justified that the Romulan Player pulled the trigger rather than Obisek. It was personal.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    You can have moustache twirling villains as well as morally grey and complex villains, however moustache twirling villains are really hard to pull off, you need a certain Je ne sais quoi, as in charisma aka the thing that separates leaders from followers, when it comes to villains like this you need to charm the audience, it just doesn't work if the villain isn't entertaining, Joker is a pretty good example of this type of villain as for the second group you need a villain who does bad things for noble purposes the type of villain you can sympathize with like Mister Freeze.
  • mikecobalt#1974 mikecobalt Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    I would like to see a break from the great galactic threat situation and have a story arc more limited in scale and location. A problem to solve, but more local in nature. Instead of a big galactic scale story arc, more like a series of episodes like TOS, TNG, or VOY. Each a stand alone story.

    Maybe have the Borg or Tholians pop in for an episode, but that is it.

    Yep. Every Star Trek serial has it's High Points and memorable events but its typically the middle episodes that actually carry the series and set how the viewers actually think of that genre. I already know in internet games if it doesn't generate quantities of adrenaline, use several pretentious terms, impending doom for all and such it most likely wont be picked up though. TNG's "Dixon Hill", family episodes. DS9's Quark/Odo rivalry, the Baseball episode. TOS Tribbles, and Voyagers simply trying to make do with what they have to get by day by day. The "Meat & Potato's" of the show, less the season starter or finale.

  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    The biggest problem is the writing. And the villain decay from making the Borg to be jobbers for squash matches, to use a few pro wrestling terms here. The writing is trash on the same tier as that of WWE's writing.

    When it comes to villains here, they're either reduced to jokes that slip on banana peels and made to be clowns(T'ket from that Quark's Lucky Seven episode is the villain sacrificed on this altar), kicked down to farm status that someone can yawn their way through because of powercreep, garbage mechanics, and handholding(The Borg), or wiped away with Steven Universe hug sessions. Or giving a 180 face turn in an attempt to blueball the player from having a satisfying payoff(J'Ula).

    I have to say that I'm glad that Hakeev and Sela were better written villains since they both had satisfying payoffs.

    I would have ADORED Denise Crosby to be the lead bad guy in Nemesis. I know that she wasn't a movie star at the time and it would have only been great for Star Trek lovers, but she was a fantastic character.

    It's always made me wonder what would have happened if they'd killed off Deanna like they planned and kept Tasha, but Sela in STO has been phenomenal. I'd love them to bring her back again, because they wrote her so well and with such interesting plots.
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    kayajay wrote: »
    Well, maybe we could find out that the Borg have a far more massive backstory...a bit like the Ancient's in SG-1, having come from an entirely different galaxy.
    If the Borg had the ability to travel to other galaxies they would have taken control of the Milky Way ages ago.

    As is, the Borg have been around for about 1,000 years, and are just recently entering the 20% of the galaxy the Federation has explored. The fact that the Dominion controls most of the Gamma Quadrant suggests they have little to no presence there either. So we are looking at the Borg being in probably less then half the galaxy.

    Even with Borg Transwarp tech it would taken early 3 years of non stop transwarp travel to reach even Andromeda, the closest galaxy to the Milky Way. Safe to say they aren't that advanced.

    Well...who's saying they haven't? For all we know, they've managed it. And remember, they reached Fluidic Space through quantum singularities, in STO the Iconians travelled seemingly quickly and Axom said he was on a ship on the edge of Fluidic Space, so that made it sound like it was a physical galaxy somewhere.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,496 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Not to mention having to contend with the Galactic Barrier.

    Right now I think the only way to get past the Barrier is through the Iconian Gate.

    In TOS the Enterprise bypassed it via hyperspace (though it takes a Medusan to navigate it) and the Kelvan lifepods made it through without problems though their badly worn-out ship didn't (and they were confident that the modifications they made to Enterprise would get them through safely). Also Sylvia and Korob (from Catspaw) were extragalactic aliens so they passed the barrier as well.

    In TNG the Enterprise-D went out to the Magellanic clouds (via The Traveller's engine tuning) which are outside of the Milky Way so they also passed (or bypassed) the barrier.

    In VOY the Caretakers were also extragalactic aliens who again would have passed the barrier to get here.

    Of course all of that assumes the barrier goes all around the galaxy and is not just between the Milky Way and Andromeda, since the only definite references are to the point between the two. A fan theory based on realworld science is that the barrier is the shockwave were the Milky Way and Andromeda galactic outer gas shells are already colliding that (in the fictional universe) cause some weird effect that overdrives psionic abilities in some species.
    kayajay wrote: »
    kayajay wrote: »
    Well, maybe we could find out that the Borg have a far more massive backstory...a bit like the Ancient's in SG-1, having come from an entirely different galaxy.
    If the Borg had the ability to travel to other galaxies they would have taken control of the Milky Way ages ago.

    As is, the Borg have been around for about 1,000 years, and are just recently entering the 20% of the galaxy the Federation has explored. The fact that the Dominion controls most of the Gamma Quadrant suggests they have little to no presence there either. So we are looking at the Borg being in probably less then half the galaxy.

    Even with Borg Transwarp tech it would taken early 3 years of non stop transwarp travel to reach even Andromeda, the closest galaxy to the Milky Way. Safe to say they aren't that advanced.

    Well...who's saying they haven't? For all we know, they've managed it. And remember, they reached Fluidic Space through quantum singularities, in STO the Iconians travelled seemingly quickly and Axom said he was on a ship on the edge of Fluidic Space, so that made it sound like it was a physical galaxy somewhere.

    They are reasonably clear in VOY about Fluidic space being another dimension. In STO the Undine are able to push little beachheads of fluidic space into normal space, that is probably what Axom was talking about.

    Also, while the Borg are scary enough to people of around the tech level of the Federation they are not powerful enough to make a believable intergalactic threat. The Metrons would be able to go through them like a lightsaber through butter for instance, and they are not the only ones far enough in advance of the Borg to curbstomp them without much trouble.

    As for the OP question about the Tholians, it is probable that they would be immune to Borg assimilation since they are a crystalline lifeform with none of the systems the nanoprobes manipulate to do the assimilation. On top of that, their body temperature would probably destroy those nanites according to a crack the Doctor on VOY made (though he may have exaggerated the situation for the joke).

    The Undine show how severe a difficulty the Borg have dealing with anything not assimilable, so they probably stay away from the really weird lifeforms like Tholians and Horta and whatnot, and which implies that if they are in Gamma quadrant they are probably stepping quietly (for them anyway) around the Dominion since it is quite likely the Founders are immune as well due to not having anything stable enough for the nanoprobes to work with.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,007 Community Moderator
    The Galactic Barrier, and the Great Barrier at the center of the galaxy, are still the biggest mysteries in Star Trek canon. They have been explored in books but not really touched on that much on screen outside of TOS and ST5.

    Honestly... I'd kinda like a story or two in STO about the Barriers.
    Also, while the Borg are scary enough to people of around the tech level of the Federation they are not powerful enough to make a believable intergalactic threat. The Metrons would be able to go through them like a lightsaber through butter for instance, and they are not the only ones far enough in advance of the Borg to curbstomp them without much trouble.

    As for the OP question about the Tholians, it is probable that they would be immune to Borg assimilation since they are a crystalline lifeform with none of the systems the nanoprobes manipulate to do the assimilation. On top of that, their body temperature would probably destroy those nanites according to a crack the Doctor on VOY made (though he may have exaggerated the situation for the joke).

    The Undine show how severe a difficulty the Borg have dealing with anything not assimilable, so they probably stay away from the really weird lifeforms like Tholians and Horta and whatnot, and which implies that if they are in Gamma quadrant they are probably stepping quietly (for them anyway) around the Dominion since it is quite likely the Founders are immune as well due to not having anything stable enough for the nanoprobes to work with.

    The Borg should be able to assimilate the client species of the Dominion, like the Jem'Hadar and Vorta. But yea... the Changelings themselves may very well be immune because of their natural liquid state.

    And Tholians aren't exactly as viable to be drones because A: they're more crystalline than organic, and B: the sheer extremes their bodies require. The basic Carbon based humanoids that are far more common in the galaxy are a lot more desirable because they are more adaptable. We've seen Borg Drones able to survive exposure to SPACE without any kind of EV suits. Unless those personal shields of theirs can also act as EV protection on Demon Planets that the Tholians prefer... I find it HIGHLY unlikely that the Borg can effectively assimilate Tholians and Tholian tech. And honestly the only thing that might attract Borg attention is Web technology, but... we've seen the Tholians use it to devastating effect on their enemies. And the Borg are JUST as vulnerable to it as anyone else.

    We've also seen that there are ways to kill Borg tech. Omnicron Radiation is effective, if lethal to most humanoids in the needed exposure rate. So it is possible that the Tholians do have something that can counter Borg tech.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The Galactic Barrier, and the Great Barrier at the center of the galaxy, are still the biggest mysteries in Star Trek canon. They have been explored in books but not really touched on that much on screen outside of TOS and ST5.

    Honestly... I'd kinda like a story or two in STO about the Barriers.
    Also, while the Borg are scary enough to people of around the tech level of the Federation they are not powerful enough to make a believable intergalactic threat. The Metrons would be able to go through them like a lightsaber through butter for instance, and they are not the only ones far enough in advance of the Borg to curbstomp them without much trouble.

    As for the OP question about the Tholians, it is probable that they would be immune to Borg assimilation since they are a crystalline lifeform with none of the systems the nanoprobes manipulate to do the assimilation. On top of that, their body temperature would probably destroy those nanites according to a crack the Doctor on VOY made (though he may have exaggerated the situation for the joke).

    The Undine show how severe a difficulty the Borg have dealing with anything not assimilable, so they probably stay away from the really weird lifeforms like Tholians and Horta and whatnot, and which implies that if they are in Gamma quadrant they are probably stepping quietly (for them anyway) around the Dominion since it is quite likely the Founders are immune as well due to not having anything stable enough for the nanoprobes to work with.

    The Borg should be able to assimilate the client species of the Dominion, like the Jem'Hadar and Vorta. But yea... the Changelings themselves may very well be immune because of their natural liquid state.

    And Tholians aren't exactly as viable to be drones because A: they're more crystalline than organic, and B: the sheer extremes their bodies require. The basic Carbon based humanoids that are far more common in the galaxy are a lot more desirable because they are more adaptable. We've seen Borg Drones able to survive exposure to SPACE without any kind of EV suits. Unless those personal shields of theirs can also act as EV protection on Demon Planets that the Tholians prefer... I find it HIGHLY unlikely that the Borg can effectively assimilate Tholians and Tholian tech. And honestly the only thing that might attract Borg attention is Web technology, but... we've seen the Tholians use it to devastating effect on their enemies. And the Borg are JUST as vulnerable to it as anyone else.

    We've also seen that there are ways to kill Borg tech. Omnicron Radiation is effective, if lethal to most humanoids in the needed exposure rate. So it is possible that the Tholians do have something that can counter Borg tech.

    I wonder if the Breen are immune to assimilation, their tech alone would give the Borg an extra edge over the Federation.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,007 Community Moderator
    There's very little known about the Breen honestly. The only tech advantage they had that I can recall was the Energy Dissapator weapon from the Dominion War, but that was quickly countered, first by the KLINGONS thanks to a lucky intermix ratio on a single BoP, then the fix was adapted for Federation and Romulan ships.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,279 Arc User
    And the Breen also don't seem to have especially potent starship designs, considering the only one they ever fielded were those easily-wrecked-by-tiny-escorts destroyers. Of course, that was mainly because of cost, I reckon - the producers probably didn't want to create multiple models for a race that was introduced properly like...a few months before the ultimate end of DS9.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • diocletian#7546 diocletian Member Posts: 131 Arc User
    > @rattler2 said:
    > And Tholians aren't exactly as viable to be drones because A: they're more crystalline than organic, and B: the sheer extremes their bodies require.
    >

    I agree with these points. I can see the Tholians as a race that the Borg would have much difficulty or even no ability at all to assimilate. Given that Tholian space is rather small, I wonder even if the Borg would even try. They may not be worth the effort to them to assimilate. Maybe just exterminate.
  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    Maybe the Borg were a massive invasive threat in another galaxy and were finally beaten by higher dimensional beings like a Q who threw them into our galaxy a beaten and broken species who have taken Millenia to assimilate their way back to where they are a threat again. The galactic barrier was put there by those beings to hold them in this galaxy as a prison but it has weakened over time and so some can now cross it.

    Could be any number of reasons behind the Borg.

    Also the Borg queen pointed out that she is not the leader, do not suggest a hierarchy where none exists or some such. She claimed to bring order to chaos so she was more of a central processor to help guide the masses. That's why she needed one of the Borg groups in the sphere to assimilate the virus which destroyed that version of her.

    All it would really take to make the Borg scary again is to assimilate a suitably advanced technology somewhere. Anything that gives them an unexpected edge makes them scary since they have massive numbers behind them...the alliance has a fraction of its population to man their fleets, when a Borg assimilates a planet they can turn that entire population into drones...that's a lot of drones.
  • therealblackkaostherealblackkaos Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    > @ucgsquawk#5883 said:

    > All it would really take to make the Borg scary again is to assimilate a suitably advanced technology somewhere. Anything that gives them an unexpected edge makes them scary since they have massive numbers behind them...the alliance has a fraction of its population to man their fleets, when a Borg assimilates a planet they can turn that entire population into drones...that's a lot of drones.


    What if someone “assimilated” them? Took Borg tech and principles and used it to their advantage? For example, the Kobali using Borg tech to speed up their dead conversion process and it gets out of hand?

    The biggest issue is this: Everyone is “friends” now. The Alliance has taken all the major powerbrokers and put them all on the same side leaving none of the other threats anywhere near viable. Who’s left that poses a real threat to Starfleet/Alliance/Federation? The Iconians are off I’m their section. The Vaddies are basically a jon threat in the Deta Quadrant. The Tzen’s are no threat in the Alpha Quadrant. So, unless they’re going to make the Mirror Universe a major player on our side of the fence, there’s no one left. If they do, I hope it’s a real invasion where they make a real beachhead and conquer systems that they’ll hold onto past whatever story arc they’re in. I’d like for them to implement real Red Alerts that matter to the galaxy as large but that’s wishful thinking I guess.
  • therealblackkaostherealblackkaos Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > Well, besides* The Tholians
    > * The Breen
    > * The Tzenkethi
    > * The Borg Collective
    > * The Voth
    > * The Devidians
    > * The Fek'Ihri
    > * T'ket's forces
    > * Many of the Hirogen clans
    > * Most of the Kazon clans
    > * The Temporal Liberation Front(Krenim, Na'kul, Sphere Builders, Vorgons)
    > * The Terran Empire
    > * The Malon
    > * The Son'a
    > * The APUs
    >
    > Like, a good half the galaxy still hates us. Not to mention the many bands of still insane Hur'q flying around.
    >
    > If Cryptic wanted they could take a page from the novels(pun intended) and create their own version of the Typhon Pact. Have the Tholians, Breen, Tzenkethi, Son'a, and some other forces, band together in their own counter alliance. They could exploit the fact that the Alliance lost most of its fleet during the Iconian War, and hasn't bee able to rebuild it yet, to leverage enough power to be a threat to the Alliance.


    But haven’t most of those been wrapped up in their respective arcs/storylines? Most have just “retreated to their corner to pick their wounds” or been completely nullified as a threat. I’m with you on a anti-alliance forming to combat the Alliance. I just hope if that story ever came to fruition, that it’s not undone by some weak writing trope of “I’m going to double cross my former enemy even though we’ve been succeeding as a group”. I could see them using Borg assimilation technology and knowledge as a common denominator.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    The biggest issue is this: Everyone is “friends” now.
    Well, besides
    • The Tholians
    • The Breen
    • The Tzenkethi
    • The Borg Collective
    • The Voth
    • The Devidians
    • The Fek'Ihri
    • T'ket's forces
    • Many of the Hirogen clans
    • Most of the Kazon clans
    • The Temporal Liberation Front(Krenim, Na'kul, Sphere Builders, Vorgons)
    • The Terran Empire
    • The Malon
    • The Son'a
    • The APUs
    Like, a good half the galaxy still hates us. Not to mention the many bands of still insane Hur'q flying around.

    If Cryptic wanted they could take a page from the novels(pun intended) and create their own version of the Typhon Pact. Have the Tholians, Breen, Tzenkethi, Son'a, and some other forces, band together in their own counter alliance. They could exploit the fact that the Alliance lost most of its fleet during the Iconian War, and hasn't bee able to rebuild it yet, to leverage enough power to be a threat to the Alliance.

    Jolan Tru, don't forget the Elachi, they're not our friends, they can claim to be liberated all they like but the only good Elachi is a dead one, Tarsev and his ilk are not welcomed anywhere near Dewa III/Mol'Rihan, unless they become playable, than there's no way to prevent their invasion forces, how can the alliance allow us to treat them as equals as if nothing happened between our two species, they invaded Virinat and ripped families apart, they burned down an entire village and kidnapped innocents, those monsters don't deserve forgiveness.
  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > So the same as the Romulans did to the Federation and Klingon Empire?

    Wait, the Romulans turned Feds and Klinks into horrible mushroom versions of Romulans and turned them back on their own people????

    I missed that mission, those monsters!
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,007 Community Moderator
    If Cryptic wanted they could take a page from the novels(pun intended) and create their own version of the Typhon Pact. Have the Tholians, Breen, Tzenkethi, Son'a, and some other forces, band together in their own counter alliance. They could exploit the fact that the Alliance lost most of its fleet during the Iconian War, and hasn't bee able to rebuild it yet, to leverage enough power to be a threat to the Alliance.

    Wasn't the TLF basically a Temporal Typhon Pact though?
    Jolan Tru, don't forget the Elachi, they're not our friends, they can claim to be liberated all they like but the only good Elachi is a dead one, Tarsev and his ilk are not welcomed anywhere near Dewa III/Mol'Rihan, unless they become playable, than there's no way to prevent their invasion forces, how can the alliance allow us to treat them as equals as if nothing happened between our two species, they invaded Virinat and ripped families apart, they burned down an entire village and kidnapped innocents, those monsters don't deserve forgiveness.

    So... ignore the fact that there are clear factions within the Elachi, and that one has gone out of their way to HELP deal with various issues including Mycelial weapons developed from J'Ula's prototype that Akar and J'Mpok turned against not only their own people, but against the galaxy as a whole.
    Should we also turn our guns against Liberated Borg as well because the only good Borg is a dead Borg?
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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