And technically the Vengeance and Crossfield both have Rings rather than full Saucers for the saucer section.
Well, the Crossfield at least has an in-universe reason for having rings, and having those rings move - the Vengeance's is there for...TRIBBLE and giggles, apparently.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Can someone also please throw Roddenberry's rule of pairs when it comes to Nacelles etc? I wish STDisgusting would at least stay true to source material.
As @somtaawkhar has said, that rule was thrown in the trash DECADES before Discovery:
USS Prometheus/Prometheus class: four nacelles
USS Stargazer/Constellation class: four nacelles
USS Enterprise-D from 'All Good Things': Three nacelles
USS Firebrand/Freedom class: one nacelle
USS Princeton/Niagara Class: three nacelles
USS Kelvin/Eienstein class: one nacelle
And there are other examples predating those too, such as the Saladin class from the old Franz Joseph technical manual, which was technically canon due to appearing on the Enterprise's computer in TWOK & TSFS.
You've also got the Defiant and Delta Flyer, which radically different nacelles. The difference is that those ships look terrific.
The 'rule' was never two nacelles only, though - it was 'always in pairs' and 'the nacelles had to be able to 'see' each other' - at least a good portion of the nacelles...the only ships on that list that violate the rule are the AGT Enterprise, the Freedom, the Niagara and the Kelvin - the Defiant and Delta Flyer don't violate it either, because their nacelles slope under the main body of the ship.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
And technically the Vengeance and Crossfield both have Rings rather than full Saucers for the saucer section.
Well, the Crossfield at least has an in-universe reason for having rings, and having those rings move - the Vengeance's is there for...TRIBBLE and giggles, apparently.
I don't understand the rings. Discovery...it was just like they wanted with Voyager in the 90's...moving parts, which would be cool. In JJ, the whole idea of having the most important part of the ship, aka the bridge, be totally exposed like a bullseye just seemed ridiculous! Bridges that were completely exposed have always been a bit silly in my opinion, because the battle bridge of the D made sense, which unless separated from the saucer, was buried deep and safely inside the ship.
Like separated nacelles though, rings are just a novelty and for practicality...it means less internal space within the ship.
Not in Discovery's case - the spinning rings are necessary for the Spore Drive to function, as they're needed for what Stamets called excess energy cavitation...and while I still think, and always will think, the drive itself is incredibly stupid (Yet ironically having one of the best musical themes so far heard in the series, alongside 'Torchbearer' and 'The Rebels Haven't Completed Their Evacuation' - yes, that is the name of the track - plus those two unnamed themes from S2 when Control's fleet drops out of warp and when his ships deploy their drone swarm), the rings do serve a purpose with it - though, I'm not sure how cavitation is supposed to work in this instance.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Not in Discovery's case - the spinning rings are necessary for the Spore Drive to function, as they're needed for what Stamets called excess energy cavitation...and while I still think, and always will think, the drive itself is incredibly stupid (Yet ironically having one of the best musical themes so far heard in the series, alongside 'Torchbearer' and 'The Rebels Haven't Completed Their Evacuation' - yes, that is the name of the track - plus those two unnamed themes from S2 when Control's fleet drops out of warp and when his ships deploy their drone swarm), the rings do serve a purpose with it - though, I'm not sure how cavitation is supposed to work in this instance.
I seriously doubt that the writers and designers for DSC have any idea what the "excess energy cavitation" is about either. So much in the series sounds like they used a random technobabble generator to get their terms. DSC is designed by graphic artists, not engineers the way the older series were, and they obviously don't think about what the various features do beyond a very simple "this is the impulse engine glow, this is the warp engine one".
Not in Discovery's case - the spinning rings are necessary for the Spore Drive to function, as they're needed for what Stamets called excess energy cavitation...and while I still think, and always will think, the drive itself is incredibly stupid (Yet ironically having one of the best musical themes so far heard in the series, alongside 'Torchbearer' and 'The Rebels Haven't Completed Their Evacuation' - yes, that is the name of the track - plus those two unnamed themes from S2 when Control's fleet drops out of warp and when his ships deploy their drone swarm), the rings do serve a purpose with it - though, I'm not sure how cavitation is supposed to work in this instance.
In that case and given the direction Disco keeps taking...I would have been happier with Discovery itself just being a saucer, with no nacelles whatsoever. The whole point of the ship was to use the tragic Spore Drive, so just let it chug along at impulse if it can't do that.
I seriously doubt that the writers and designers for DSC have any idea what the "excess energy cavitation" is about either. So much in the series sounds like they used a random technobabble generator to get their terms.
I'm highly entertained by your implication that writers on previous Trek series had any notion of real science in their writing. I mean, Scotty thought an ion engine, which is just charging up debris and then sending it through a charged grid for exhaust, was more advanced than a warp drive. (Currently, we call them "Hall thrusters", and they're used to keep satellites on-station in orbit.) In TNG, LEGO genetics became the order of the day, with any two random sapient species being interfertile despite every last one of them emerging from a separate evolutionary path, and warp drive could tear rips in spacetime but only in excess of warp 5. For that matter, if sheer technobabble is bad, please explain the exact function of Heisenberg compensators. I'll wait. DS9 featured starships maneuvering at significant fractions of c as if they were fighter planes in atmosphere. (I'll give them a pass on most of the temporal shenanigans, as those tended to involve creatures from outside linear spacetime.) VOY - gods below, where does one start with VOY? Event horizons with cracks in them, human evolution eventually resulting in amazingly horny giant salamanders, magic reset buttons, and the list goes on. ENT tried for a while, even acknowledging in one early episode that just because an atmosphere is nitrogen/oxygen doesn't mean it's safe to breathe, but soon went right back to being as "scientific" as VOY.
DSC actually does a little better - there is in fact a coherent theory, nonsense as it might be, about the mycelial drive, unlike warp drive (no, it's not an Alcubierre-White warp - read up on it, those would act in a completely different fashion that would obviate any number of Trek scripts). The 32nd-century personal transporter does leave me with some serious questions - what's the probability that Linus will one day find himself inside a wall, for instance - but it's no worse than what we've swallowed wholesale before (holograms are made of light, and by definition have no substance...).
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
They literally have a term for it. And at times during writing the scripts the writers didn't actually put anything in but things along the lines of "Tech" or "Technobabble" because they didn't know what to put in there.
Technobabble (also known as Treknobabble) is a moniker describing the pseudo-scientific terminology of Star Trek.
On Star Trek: The Next Generation, some of the actors dubbed it "Piller-filler" after executive producer Michael Piller. (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, p. 252) According to Piller, the latter term originated with Brent Spiner, whose character of Data gave many technobabble speeches. Writers would frequently write "(TECH)" in draft scripts "as a sort of cry for help" to the science advisor André Bormanis, who would then come up with appropriate terminology. [1] [2] [3]
I seriously doubt that the writers and designers for DSC have any idea what the "excess energy cavitation" is about either. So much in the series sounds like they used a random technobabble generator to get their terms.
I'm highly entertained by your implication that writers on previous Trek series had any notion of real science in their writing. I mean, Scotty thought an ion engine, which is just charging up debris and then sending it through a charged grid for exhaust, was more advanced than a warp drive. (Currently, we call them "Hall thrusters", and they're used to keep satellites on-station in orbit.) In TNG, LEGO genetics became the order of the day, with any two random sapient species being interfertile despite every last one of them emerging from a separate evolutionary path, and warp drive could tear rips in spacetime but only in excess of warp 5. For that matter, if sheer technobabble is bad, please explain the exact function of Heisenberg compensators. I'll wait. DS9 featured starships maneuvering at significant fractions of c as if they were fighter planes in atmosphere. (I'll give them a pass on most of the temporal shenanigans, as those tended to involve creatures from outside linear spacetime.) VOY - gods below, where does one start with VOY? Event horizons with cracks in them, human evolution eventually resulting in amazingly horny giant salamanders, magic reset buttons, and the list goes on. ENT tried for a while, even acknowledging in one early episode that just because an atmosphere is nitrogen/oxygen doesn't mean it's safe to breathe, but soon went right back to being as "scientific" as VOY.
DSC actually does a little better - there is in fact a coherent theory, nonsense as it might be, about the mycelial drive, unlike warp drive (no, it's not an Alcubierre-White warp - read up on it, those would act in a completely different fashion that would obviate any number of Trek scripts). The 32nd-century personal transporter does leave me with some serious questions - what's the probability that Linus will one day find himself inside a wall, for instance - but it's no worse than what we've swallowed wholesale before (holograms are made of light, and by definition have no substance...).
I think the great thing about Trek in the beginning...it was so outlandish, but we caught up. The problem with Disco is that's TOO relatable. Too close to where we are now, so it barely feels like science fiction, doesn't feel at all like Star Trek and I miss the weird and wonderful. I'm also tired of the dreariness and lack of joy, because absolutely everything about DSC is dark, miserable, depressing and violent.
I liken it to the difference between Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Universe...that light-heartedness, combined with great storytelling was just trounced, but had the Stargate brand stamped on it.
The reason I avoid Disco is the same reason I don't watch Eastenders...it's depressing.
Literally in the case of dark...can't see TRIBBLE - of course, the fact that my TV's backlight (I think) is busted doesn't help, but even before it broke, I could barely see anything throughout the first two seasons...I mean, I know space is supposed to be dark, but come on! Turn the set lighting up at least a few shades.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Can someone also please throw Roddenberry's rule of pairs when it comes to Nacelles etc? I wish STDisgusting would at least stay true to source material.
1. Warp nacelles must be in pairs. As Andrew Probert explained in this web site's 2005 interview, "Gene specified to me, in fact, that starship warp engines operate in pairs... because they're codependent.... So in the same breath he negated [Franz Joseph's] three-engined dreadnoughts along with the single-engined destroyers [and scouts], on the edict simply that, to achieve warp drive, you had to have codependent warp engine pairs."
2. Warp nacelles must have at least 50% line of sight of each other across the hull. As Andrew Probert explained in this web site's 2005 interview, "As far as the line-of-sight requirement, that was my edict, that, in order to be codependent, the warp engines had to see each other, totally. I'm talking about the power combs, not necessarily the Bussard collectors but the bulk of those combs have an energy path between them." This would seem to negate Franz Joseph's transport/tug design -- at least when it's towing transport pods, which are positioned between the warp nacelles.
3. Both warp nacelles must be fully visible from the front. As Probert explained, "That's probably something that I came up with, simply to allow for clearer access to free hydrogen that those collectors have to... collect."
4. The bridge must be located at the top center of the primary hull. This "rule" was a design preference expressed to Probert after he initially positioned the Enterprise-D's bridge at the center of the primary hull. The TNG production staff apparently preferred that the bridge remain atop the primary hull, in order to provide a sense of scale.
Rules 2, 3, and 4 are violated by the Defiant. I think pretty much all of those rules are broken by pretty much everybody in the Delta Quadrant. And of course Borg ships don't even have nacelles - or bridges, really.
It's my belief that none of the "rules" cited here are rules, just design preferences among the human engineers in Starfleet, and they can be disregarded freely.
Can someone also please throw Roddenberry's rule of pairs when it comes to Nacelles etc? I wish STDisgusting would at least stay true to source material.
1. Warp nacelles must be in pairs. As Andrew Probert explained in this web site's 2005 interview, "Gene specified to me, in fact, that starship warp engines operate in pairs... because they're codependent.... So in the same breath he negated [Franz Joseph's] three-engined dreadnoughts along with the single-engined destroyers [and scouts], on the edict simply that, to achieve warp drive, you had to have codependent warp engine pairs."
2. Warp nacelles must have at least 50% line of sight of each other across the hull. As Andrew Probert explained in this web site's 2005 interview, "As far as the line-of-sight requirement, that was my edict, that, in order to be codependent, the warp engines had to see each other, totally. I'm talking about the power combs, not necessarily the Bussard collectors but the bulk of those combs have an energy path between them." This would seem to negate Franz Joseph's transport/tug design -- at least when it's towing transport pods, which are positioned between the warp nacelles.
3. Both warp nacelles must be fully visible from the front. As Probert explained, "That's probably something that I came up with, simply to allow for clearer access to free hydrogen that those collectors have to... collect."
4. The bridge must be located at the top center of the primary hull. This "rule" was a design preference expressed to Probert after he initially positioned the Enterprise-D's bridge at the center of the primary hull. The TNG production staff apparently preferred that the bridge remain atop the primary hull, in order to provide a sense of scale.
Keep in mind pretty much all of these were broken while Roddenberry was still with them.
While that's all fun and interesting, it's also important to remember that stuff said off screen isn't actually canon. So all that commentary from Gene and Probert and whoever else is definitely interesting, but unless it was explained by some character on screen it doesn't really matter
I think the great thing about Trek in the beginning...it was so outlandish, but we caught up. The problem with Disco is that's TOO relatable. Too close to where we are now, so it barely feels like science fiction, doesn't feel at all like Star Trek and I miss the weird and wonderful. I'm also tired of the dreariness and lack of joy, because absolutely everything about DSC is dark, miserable, depressing and violent.
I liken it to the difference between Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Universe...that light-heartedness, combined with great storytelling was just trounced, but had the Stargate brand stamped on it.
The reason I avoid Disco is the same reason I don't watch Eastenders...it's depressing.
Yea I mean I understand.
While it did take 3-5 episodes leading up to the Klingon War, they then spent 40-50% of the remaining episodes resolving that major conflict. Season two was very similar, as 50% of the season was always the threat. Season three was a bit different, yet then they then spent 50% dealing with the Major Antagonist.
I'd love to see a return to more the TNG vibe showing of different independent missions resolved in each episode, before we then had to find out what their next mission was, some had challenges or obstacles, not everything was something that took 5-7 episode to resolve. I also miss the more traditional 22-23 season episodes rather than 10, which more studios now seem to favor. I also miss the far more light hearted approach, with more diplomacy, assistance, or support being offered, which was what made the Federation a Strength for good!
So I do hope they start Disco Season 4 spending at least (longer) to get to the major threat, till about episode 7-8. While they hinted in the Season 3 final of reaching out for former Members with Dilithium...
So hopefully they delay the threat closer to the season final more. This should be a time for rebuilding & reaching out. Show runners always like a Season ending to leave people wanting to know what's going to happen. Still hopefully they will return to far more balance, and spend more time leading up to it and resolving it quicker. It does seem a bit darker, and I too miss the lighter side of Trek.
Hopefully his son will help push for showing a little more of the light & diplomacy.
Still I'm looking forward to Season 4, just hope they meet my expectations!
I seriously doubt that the writers and designers for DSC have any idea what the "excess energy cavitation" is about either. So much in the series sounds like they used a random technobabble generator to get their terms.
I'm highly entertained by your implication that writers on previous Trek series had any notion of real science in their writing. I mean, Scotty thought an ion engine, which is just charging up debris and then sending it through a charged grid for exhaust, was more advanced than a warp drive. (Currently, we call them "Hall thrusters", and they're used to keep satellites on-station in orbit.) In TNG, LEGO genetics became the order of the day, with any two random sapient species being interfertile despite every last one of them emerging from a separate evolutionary path, and warp drive could tear rips in spacetime but only in excess of warp 5. For that matter, if sheer technobabble is bad, please explain the exact function of Heisenberg compensators. I'll wait. DS9 featured starships maneuvering at significant fractions of c as if they were fighter planes in atmosphere. (I'll give them a pass on most of the temporal shenanigans, as those tended to involve creatures from outside linear spacetime.) VOY - gods below, where does one start with VOY? Event horizons with cracks in them, human evolution eventually resulting in amazingly horny giant salamanders, magic reset buttons, and the list goes on. ENT tried for a while, even acknowledging in one early episode that just because an atmosphere is nitrogen/oxygen doesn't mean it's safe to breathe, but soon went right back to being as "scientific" as VOY.
DSC actually does a little better - there is in fact a coherent theory, nonsense as it might be, about the mycelial drive, unlike warp drive (no, it's not an Alcubierre-White warp - read up on it, those would act in a completely different fashion that would obviate any number of Trek scripts). The 32nd-century personal transporter does leave me with some serious questions - what's the probability that Linus will one day find himself inside a wall, for instance - but it's no worse than what we've swallowed wholesale before (holograms are made of light, and by definition have no substance...).
Entertaining or not, they actually did listen to the science advisors in TOS for the most part (there were exceptions of course, and the ion drive thing was an outlier (and no, it wasn't the only one in the series) with the writer using an easily recognizable space term to sound "sciencey" without actually understanding it.
TMP actually broke the science rather badly by shifting to impulse drive as their base drive and using the warp drive more like the hyperspace drive from Star Wars (a movie they were trying very hard to coattail without seeming to) only for changing scene locations.
Warp solved a lot of the physics problems in TOS by sidestepping Einsteinian physics since the ship itself never moved, the space it occupied shifted and momentum-like effects were an artifact of the time it took to shift charges/phases/values/whatever in the warp bubble. Since they did all their travelling in warp (it was mentioned numerous times that impulse was almost never used, it was mainly an emergency backup) they could pull hairpin turns and whatnot without breaking plausibility.
Sure, it was all based on a very shaky simplified popular version of quantum theory from the 1960s and parts of it would be considered quaint and obsolete but it was for the most part internally consistent when the slush readers discovered and pointed out errors made by outside writers. It still did better than DSC does now, especially considering it took outside submissions, and DSC should be a lot more consistent than it is considering it is a single closed writer's room coming up with the stories.
I think the great thing about Trek in the beginning...it was so outlandish, but we caught up. The problem with Disco is that's TOO relatable. Too close to where we are now, so it barely feels like science fiction, doesn't feel at all like Star Trek and I miss the weird and wonderful. I'm also tired of the dreariness and lack of joy, because absolutely everything about DSC is dark, miserable, depressing and violent.
I liken it to the difference between Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Universe...that light-heartedness, combined with great storytelling was just trounced, but had the Stargate brand stamped on it.
The reason I avoid Disco is the same reason I don't watch Eastenders...it's depressing.
Yea I mean I understand.
While it did take 3-5 episodes leading up to the Klingon War, they then spent 40-50% of the remaining episodes resolving that major conflict. Season two was very similar, as 50% of the season was always the threat. Season three was a bit different, yet then they then spent 50% dealing with the Major Antagonist.
I'd love to see a return to more the TNG vibe showing of different independent missions resolved in each episode, before we then had to find out what their next mission was, some had challenges or obstacles, not everything was something that took 5-7 episode to resolve. I also miss the more traditional 22-23 season episodes rather than 10, which more studios now seem to favor. I also miss the far more light hearted approach, with more diplomacy, assistance, or support being offered, which was what made the Federation a Strength for good!
So I do hope they start Disco Season 4 spending at least they delay the threat or till about episode 7-8. While they hinted in the Season 3 final of reaching out for former Members with Dilithium...
So hopefully they delay any threats longer leading up to the final. This should be a time for rebuilding & reaching out. Show runners always like a Season ending to leave people wanting to know what's going to happen. Still hopefully they will return to far more balance, and spend more time leading up to it and resolving it quicker. It does seem a bit darker, and I too miss the lighter side of Trek.
Hopefully his son will help push for showing a little more of the light & diplomacy.
Still I'm looking forward to Season 4, just hope they meet my expectations!
I just miss episodic Trek. Making it a soap opera with each and every episode leading into the next...what if you don't like the story? What if you don't like the writing? The great thing is that I can just watch a TNG, or a DS9 or a VOY, which is like a tiny little film in itself...but if you don't like everything that's going on in an entire season, then what are you supposed to do?
I think the great thing about Trek in the beginning...it was so outlandish, but we caught up. The problem with Disco is that's TOO relatable. Too close to where we are now, so it barely feels like science fiction, doesn't feel at all like Star Trek and I miss the weird and wonderful. I'm also tired of the dreariness and lack of joy, because absolutely everything about DSC is dark, miserable, depressing and violent.
I liken it to the difference between Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Universe...that light-heartedness, combined with great storytelling was just trounced, but had the Stargate brand stamped on it.
The reason I avoid Disco is the same reason I don't watch Eastenders...it's depressing.
Yea I mean I understand.
While it did take 3-5 episodes leading up to the Klingon War, they then spent 40-50% of the remaining episodes resolving that major conflict. Season two was very similar, as 50% of the season was always the threat. Season three was a bit different, yet then they then spent 50% dealing with the Major Antagonist.
I'd love to see a return to more the TNG vibe showing of different independent missions resolved in each episode, before we then had to find out what their next mission was, some had challenges or obstacles, not everything was something that took 5-7 episode to resolve. I also miss the more traditional 22-23 season episodes rather than 10, which more studios now seem to favor. I also miss the far more light hearted approach, with more diplomacy, assistance, or support being offered, which was what made the Federation a Strength for good!
So I do hope they start Disco Season 4 spending at least they delay the threat or till about episode 7-8. While they hinted in the Season 3 final of reaching out for former Members with Dilithium...
So hopefully they delay any threats longer leading up to the final. This should be a time for rebuilding & reaching out. Show runners always like a Season ending to leave people wanting to know what's going to happen. Still hopefully they will return to far more balance, and spend more time leading up to it and resolving it quicker. It does seem a bit darker, and I too miss the lighter side of Trek.
Hopefully his son will help push for showing a little more of the light & diplomacy.
Still I'm looking forward to Season 4, just hope they meet my expectations!
I just miss episodic Trek. Making it a soap opera with each and every episode leading into the next...what if you don't like the story? What if you don't like the writing? The great thing is that I can just watch a TNG, or a DS9 or a VOY, which is like a tiny little film in itself...but if you don't like everything that's going on in an entire season, then what are you supposed to do?
They could do a best-of-both-worlds compromise and run an arc-episodic format like Babylon5 or Hill Street Blues where it is distinctly episodic in that the "local" plots each episode revolves around are solved in an episode or two but has a vibrant shifting tapestry of inter-episodic and inter-season threads that help give a show the feeling that it is in a live place instead of the only thing going on in a plot vacuum.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Well... Strange New Worlds is sounding to be episodic.
Well... Strange New Worlds is sounding to be episodic.
If they have no correlation to Disco, no crossovers and really get back to the bones of what Trek was (even if they have preposterous technology and logistical impossibilities with shuttlecraft) then I'm all for it.
I'd love a 21st Century take on the 22nd Century...with no 21st Century television producer influences making it horrific.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Strange New Worlds is a spinoff from Discovery... and they can't cross over with Discovery in the traditional sense. Could we have Prime Lorca make an appearance? Yes. Its entirely possible. But there won't be interaction with the USS Discovery because she's no longer in their time period, and all data pertaining to USS Discovery has been classified at the highest level. And with Anson Mount as Captain Pike, its sounding good. Everyone loved Pike as Captain in Discovery s2.
Strange New Worlds should also be exciting, just hope they consider making the season a little bit longer than 10.
Perhaps maybe 11, 12, or even a baker's dozen, still can't complain more shows aren't 22-23 episodes. It's just nice to have 2-3 episodes all on series at the same time, I suspect the reason we have that is because of the shorter seasons. That also doesn't include 1-2 animated series as well...
The All Good Things Enterprise has smaller nacelles attached to the the 3 so it still has pairs. I've read the 2 nacelle rule explained as it meaning pairs of nacelles are optimal but a ship could still function with odd numbers of them.
Most of these Discovery ships are too far from existing Federation designs for me.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
I... don't remember seeing any smaller nacelles on the Gal-X. Just the three and the two cannons on the saucer.
We also have oddball ships like the TNG Freedom and the Kelvin. Some speculate that the single nacelle ships might actually have a dual setup within the nacelle, so it still has paired warp coils. Honestly I just think it would be easier to explain that even numbers of nacelles are just more effecient. I mean Vulcans used Warp Rings for many years and... I can't see how you can have the paired setup with that.
Ent Saucer Separation montage including generations the humps are not there
We Want Vic Fontaine
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
If you look at those raised parts... they have phaser strips on them. During the Dominion War many Galaxy class starships got a minor refit to include those Phaser Strips on the nacelles for increased firepower. It was the "Venture" refit.
Odds are the raised parts are for the Phaser strips. Not mini nacelles.
Comments
Well, the Crossfield at least has an in-universe reason for having rings, and having those rings move - the Vengeance's is there for...TRIBBLE and giggles, apparently.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
You've also got the Defiant and Delta Flyer, which radically different nacelles. The difference is that those ships look terrific.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I don't understand the rings. Discovery...it was just like they wanted with Voyager in the 90's...moving parts, which would be cool. In JJ, the whole idea of having the most important part of the ship, aka the bridge, be totally exposed like a bullseye just seemed ridiculous! Bridges that were completely exposed have always been a bit silly in my opinion, because the battle bridge of the D made sense, which unless separated from the saucer, was buried deep and safely inside the ship.
Like separated nacelles though, rings are just a novelty and for practicality...it means less internal space within the ship.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I seriously doubt that the writers and designers for DSC have any idea what the "excess energy cavitation" is about either. So much in the series sounds like they used a random technobabble generator to get their terms. DSC is designed by graphic artists, not engineers the way the older series were, and they obviously don't think about what the various features do beyond a very simple "this is the impulse engine glow, this is the warp engine one".
In that case and given the direction Disco keeps taking...I would have been happier with Discovery itself just being a saucer, with no nacelles whatsoever. The whole point of the ship was to use the tragic Spore Drive, so just let it chug along at impulse if it can't do that.
DSC actually does a little better - there is in fact a coherent theory, nonsense as it might be, about the mycelial drive, unlike warp drive (no, it's not an Alcubierre-White warp - read up on it, those would act in a completely different fashion that would obviate any number of Trek scripts). The 32nd-century personal transporter does leave me with some serious questions - what's the probability that Linus will one day find himself inside a wall, for instance - but it's no worse than what we've swallowed wholesale before (holograms are made of light, and by definition have no substance...).
They literally have a term for it. And at times during writing the scripts the writers didn't actually put anything in but things along the lines of "Tech" or "Technobabble" because they didn't know what to put in there.
I think the great thing about Trek in the beginning...it was so outlandish, but we caught up. The problem with Disco is that's TOO relatable. Too close to where we are now, so it barely feels like science fiction, doesn't feel at all like Star Trek and I miss the weird and wonderful. I'm also tired of the dreariness and lack of joy, because absolutely everything about DSC is dark, miserable, depressing and violent.
I liken it to the difference between Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Universe...that light-heartedness, combined with great storytelling was just trounced, but had the Stargate brand stamped on it.
The reason I avoid Disco is the same reason I don't watch Eastenders...it's depressing.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
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1. Warp nacelles must be in pairs. As Andrew Probert explained in this web site's 2005 interview, "Gene specified to me, in fact, that starship warp engines operate in pairs... because they're codependent.... So in the same breath he negated [Franz Joseph's] three-engined dreadnoughts along with the single-engined destroyers [and scouts], on the edict simply that, to achieve warp drive, you had to have codependent warp engine pairs."
2. Warp nacelles must have at least 50% line of sight of each other across the hull. As Andrew Probert explained in this web site's 2005 interview, "As far as the line-of-sight requirement, that was my edict, that, in order to be codependent, the warp engines had to see each other, totally. I'm talking about the power combs, not necessarily the Bussard collectors but the bulk of those combs have an energy path between them." This would seem to negate Franz Joseph's transport/tug design -- at least when it's towing transport pods, which are positioned between the warp nacelles.
3. Both warp nacelles must be fully visible from the front. As Probert explained, "That's probably something that I came up with, simply to allow for clearer access to free hydrogen that those collectors have to... collect."
4. The bridge must be located at the top center of the primary hull. This "rule" was a design preference expressed to Probert after he initially positioned the Enterprise-D's bridge at the center of the primary hull. The TNG production staff apparently preferred that the bridge remain atop the primary hull, in order to provide a sense of scale.
http://www.trekplace.com/article15.html
Keep in mind pretty much all of these were broken while Roddenberry was still with them.
It's my belief that none of the "rules" cited here are rules, just design preferences among the human engineers in Starfleet, and they can be disregarded freely.
While that's all fun and interesting, it's also important to remember that stuff said off screen isn't actually canon. So all that commentary from Gene and Probert and whoever else is definitely interesting, but unless it was explained by some character on screen it doesn't really matter
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yea I mean I understand.
While it did take 3-5 episodes leading up to the Klingon War, they then spent 40-50% of the remaining episodes resolving that major conflict. Season two was very similar, as 50% of the season was always the threat. Season three was a bit different, yet then they then spent 50% dealing with the Major Antagonist.
I'd love to see a return to more the TNG vibe showing of different independent missions resolved in each episode, before we then had to find out what their next mission was, some had challenges or obstacles, not everything was something that took 5-7 episode to resolve. I also miss the more traditional 22-23 season episodes rather than 10, which more studios now seem to favor. I also miss the far more light hearted approach, with more diplomacy, assistance, or support being offered, which was what made the Federation a Strength for good!
So I do hope they start Disco Season 4 spending at least (longer) to get to the major threat, till about episode 7-8. While they hinted in the Season 3 final of reaching out for former Members with Dilithium...
Visit https://www.startrek.com for teasers to Season 4 of a minute and half.
So hopefully they delay the threat closer to the season final more. This should be a time for rebuilding & reaching out. Show runners always like a Season ending to leave people wanting to know what's going to happen. Still hopefully they will return to far more balance, and spend more time leading up to it and resolving it quicker. It does seem a bit darker, and I too miss the lighter side of Trek.
Hopefully his son will help push for showing a little more of the light & diplomacy.
Still I'm looking forward to Season 4, just hope they meet my expectations!
Entertaining or not, they actually did listen to the science advisors in TOS for the most part (there were exceptions of course, and the ion drive thing was an outlier (and no, it wasn't the only one in the series) with the writer using an easily recognizable space term to sound "sciencey" without actually understanding it.
TMP actually broke the science rather badly by shifting to impulse drive as their base drive and using the warp drive more like the hyperspace drive from Star Wars (a movie they were trying very hard to coattail without seeming to) only for changing scene locations.
Warp solved a lot of the physics problems in TOS by sidestepping Einsteinian physics since the ship itself never moved, the space it occupied shifted and momentum-like effects were an artifact of the time it took to shift charges/phases/values/whatever in the warp bubble. Since they did all their travelling in warp (it was mentioned numerous times that impulse was almost never used, it was mainly an emergency backup) they could pull hairpin turns and whatnot without breaking plausibility.
Sure, it was all based on a very shaky simplified popular version of quantum theory from the 1960s and parts of it would be considered quaint and obsolete but it was for the most part internally consistent when the slush readers discovered and pointed out errors made by outside writers. It still did better than DSC does now, especially considering it took outside submissions, and DSC should be a lot more consistent than it is considering it is a single closed writer's room coming up with the stories.
I just miss episodic Trek. Making it a soap opera with each and every episode leading into the next...what if you don't like the story? What if you don't like the writing? The great thing is that I can just watch a TNG, or a DS9 or a VOY, which is like a tiny little film in itself...but if you don't like everything that's going on in an entire season, then what are you supposed to do?
They could do a best-of-both-worlds compromise and run an arc-episodic format like Babylon5 or Hill Street Blues where it is distinctly episodic in that the "local" plots each episode revolves around are solved in an episode or two but has a vibrant shifting tapestry of inter-episodic and inter-season threads that help give a show the feeling that it is in a live place instead of the only thing going on in a plot vacuum.
If they have no correlation to Disco, no crossovers and really get back to the bones of what Trek was (even if they have preposterous technology and logistical impossibilities with shuttlecraft) then I'm all for it.
I'd love a 21st Century take on the 22nd Century...with no 21st Century television producer influences making it horrific.
Perhaps maybe 11, 12, or even a baker's dozen, still can't complain more shows aren't 22-23 episodes. It's just nice to have 2-3 episodes all on series at the same time, I suspect the reason we have that is because of the shorter seasons. That also doesn't include 1-2 animated series as well...
Most of these Discovery ships are too far from existing Federation designs for me.
We also have oddball ships like the TNG Freedom and the Kelvin. Some speculate that the single nacelle ships might actually have a dual setup within the nacelle, so it still has paired warp coils. Honestly I just think it would be easier to explain that even numbers of nacelles are just more effecient. I mean Vulcans used Warp Rings for many years and... I can't see how you can have the paired setup with that.
Gal-x
Ent Saucer Separation montage including generations the humps are not there
Odds are the raised parts are for the Phaser strips. Not mini nacelles.