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Tholian Webspinner Array nerf/buff?
volticua
Member Posts: 106 Arc User
I have only one question about "+20% Crit Chance vs Held foes redesigned to +50% Bonus Damage vs Held foes ". What's about people who pay buyout for one console and now get another? This feel like big changes and big substitution for players who spend money on this. is this legally?
I can understand changes to lower crit chance. Let's say balance. But now it's almost another console what we bought
I can understand changes to lower crit chance. Let's say balance. But now it's almost another console what we bought
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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They are very clear to include in their terms of service that they can pretty much change anything anytime they want with or without player consent. Even if you paid money for the item it's a free item that you opted to pay for, and even items you paid for are covered in their TOS, they can basically do what they want when they want.
They have numerous times in the past changed 'for sale' items after the sales have ended and the revenue has been collected. While we could certainly debate the merits of such things they have made sure it's legal according to the terms we have all agreed to. Not that I think this is one of those times, they made a change to an event item and they did it before most people even had the item.. it honestly seems fair enough to me.
Understandable if you don't like the change, but if you read through the TOS I think you will find that there is no legal ground to cry foul. These are things you should always consider before spending money on this or any other game. You should only spend your money if the game is made by a developer you trust and consider reputable. Rather or not PWE/Cryptic meets that description is up to individual experience and opinion, only you can decide that for yourself.
For the tiny bit of game balance left I hope they nerf it to the ground today.
On second thought... I don’t care anymore. It’s not as if Bort would either...
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Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
nothing deceptive about it. you are told up front it could change at any time. in this case it was broken and it was fixed. Whether one likes the fix is a different story. 50% bonus damage to held targets is still a major boost that can be had simply but slapping something with a tractor beam
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
> Legal but really deceiving from their part. Really quick to hit it with the nerf hammer and DOA.
Take it as a display of incompetence rather than foul play ok?
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I actually think it’s a mix of both.
They introduce stuff that’s insanely over powered because they have no idea how the game actually works. Once they are surprised by how powerful their new item is, they look at rather or not people are buying it. If so, they work on the fix at a leisurely rate and then implement it when sales slow. Look at what they did with the original Advanced Phasers.. yes, they said early that they were going to nerf them, but the fix didn’t go in until the ship was no longer for sale. There have been plenty of examples of this over the course of the games life.
It’s absolutely incompetence, but they have learned how to profit from said incompetence.
And one more conclusion. Seems we will never see debuff abilities on crit. Any way not on this game engine.
What is deceptive is the fact companies managed to make the "we can do whatever we want to your product once you buy it without your consent" like a very valid and acceptable rule in contracts in the mind of people for so many decades.
Not that I care personally, but I can see where the OP is coming from.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
For example, in this case, the announcement post (https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11487723-tholian-trouble!) still says "This powerful console improves Tetryon Damage, Physical Damage, Control Expertise, and dramatically improves Critical Strike Chance against Held enemies."
Sure, you could argue that it is old news and a player should look at other sources, but a) that post is still valid for this event and is advertised on the launcher and b) even the in-game reward info shows increased crit for the console.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/823613716762984498/843116556103188510/unknown.png
Given that the console is no longer as described AND people can pay to get it, THAT is where the problem lies and THAT is closer to false advertising than just correcting a "broken" item.
Half way waiting for Cryptic to change their lifetime deal to better suit their pocketbooks. Take away the 500 zen from lifetimers, and other things.
True. But just because you 'reserve the right' to do something, doesn't mean it isn't sleazy, or the right thing to do.
Having said that, fixes should always occur -- no one gets to keep outright broken stuff. In general, though, changing a +20% Crit chance to a bit of extra dmg, kinda edges on 'sleazy' to me, as +20% Crit chance is not the result of some freak accident, but was designed that way deliberately, and taken away again, equally deliberately, now that most ppl have had a chance to obtain the sought-for item. Still legal, still ever-so dishonest. Oh, what tangled web we weave!
This is the result of lazy development and implementation, plain and simple. Obviously, if you introduce an item one way and then change it later, it's going to generate some bad feeling. No one will argue that if something is obviously broken then it should be fixed, but the way to avoid situations like this is to test items before they are implemented on the live server. We have a Tribble and a Redshirt test server and neither of them are used to test things like this. They just whip them up and push them straight to live without any real testing at all. If a console, item, trait, etc is massively broken then that should be detected in testing.
When you skip testing however, things like this happen. It's lazy at best, sleazy at worst.
We have some consoles like Delphic tear that add 5% critD.
CritH values are always lower. So it is strange indeed that someone over at Cryptic thought that adding a +20 critH console would be a good idea. They could have known in advance that this console would need correcting afterwards if it were released with the values it was.
In that sense, the OP is right that they could and should have done so before people started spending money on it through the buy out option.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Well, why not? It's always useful and can be fun to have a build for each weapon type. Even if it's only for endeavours.
And the control ability requirement is something that's easier to meet since we have Unconventional systems, which makes slotting control abilities more useful.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
This isn't an uncommon practice for them. In fact it happens all the time. After every ship is released in the lockboxes, if they can be nerfed they will be nerfed. Can point to plenty of ships, the most egregious being the MW Disco-Con. The ship originally did a stacking for critH per beam then was not nerfed but fully changed like this console was and moved to CritD and then nerfed again to a lower CritD and stacking ceiling.
This is just one example that many players probably do not remember but there are quite a few of them and most of them are on pay ships or pay traits. In which the players lose way more then a few zen.
All you can do is make more informed decisions with your income and question if you really want to fork over your money or not to a company that will do this in the name of 'Balance' when they created the in-balance in the first place for money. Them restoring the 'balance' doesn't restore the balance in your wallet.
The right thing to do is fixing broken items, which is exactly what they did. The item was intended to give the crit chance only when you have a held target, meaning a conditional trigger/activation. However it gave the crit chance all the time which was NEVER the intention of the item. Anyone who has played longer than 5 minutes and has a basic comprehension of English (or other language they play in) should know that it was NEVER intended to work like it was. While staple items aren't necessarily a bad thing, the last thing we need is another item that becomes the next Plasmonic Leech or Plasma Exploder situation. If that console had been allowed to stay in that broken state, that's exactly what would have happened. If you wanted to do anything in game and you weren't running that console, you would have been doing it wrong. It would have become THE answer to boosting crit chance in all cases. Stuff like that is not healthy for a game to keep going. 50% bonus damage is still a large chunk of damage boosting and not exactly something to sneeze at.
Something people need to understand as well with game development of any type, be it video games, card games, or what have you, is that sometimes your best laid plans don't work out the way you think it will. A prime example of this is in games like Yugioh, Pokemon, Magic the Gathering. From time to time they may release cards they think are perfectly fine and balanced, but someone finds a broken combo with them and they end up having to ban the card or change it. It sucks when that happens but sometimes it must be done for the health of the game. Sleazy is leaving something that busted in the game and allowing it to harm the health of the game overall for everyone instead of just admitting your plans didn't work out and altering them. Does it suck when that stuff happens, absolutely, but folks are way overreacting on this one.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Nothing you say is wrong. Maybe anyone should have known it would not work as it was released.
And yet that is what all the descriptions say. That is what the in-game reward window says. Heck, that is what the item's tooltip still says in the description.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/823613716762984498/843985471931547718/unknown.png
"dramatically improves critical chance against held foes"
So, the question is, if the problem was that it gave the crit chance boost on ALL foes rather than just the ones held, was that not fixable? Why completely change it to bonus damage to held foes?
And in that case, shouldn't the announcements and descriptions be changed to match? Let people know what they might be buying after the changes.
The majority of the replies I have read don't say the item couldn't or shouldn't have been changed if it was broken. There are, however, possible questions to be asked about how it was done and communicated.
Maybe. I have an existing Tet build on my main that I threw it on. I admit though I don't parse so I don't know just how much of a change it was other than I can now web at least one ship without a chargeup from the Web Cannon (This is on my Tarantula BTW). Only issue I have so far is... I haven't seen a chain web yet. Just single target. What's the range on the chain? And I usually am zapping a ship in a group.
That is a good point. I have yet to see it chain, too. At least graphically. I haven't really looked to see if any nearby ships get a debuff just without the web graphic.