To get through your little rant here
1. You said nothing in Star Trek would make The Burn believable. I pointed out that Q, a god-like being shown to be able to do pretty much anything he desires, including casually creating a backward traveling temporal anomaly that almost destroyed humanity, simply to test Picard, exists. Hell, the Traveler flinging the ENT-D a billion LY(literally) away to the edge of the universe near instantly is a grander feat. And the Traveler isn't even particularly high on the god-being scale in Trek.
2. They do mine Dilthium for energy, thats partially what its used for. That's why there are dil mines on Remus.
3. Dilthium is not only a power regulator, but a power refinement tool. It doesn't just control the flow of the matter/anti-matter molecules, it takes the raw energy produced by their collision, and converts it into a more usable form.
4. As we see throughout Star Trek, there are various levels of subspace, each offering differing speeds at differing power rates that are not proportional to each other. In one layer it takes little to no energy to go super fast, and in other it takes a lot more to go nowhere near as fast. No one cares about your seemingly religious worship of the inverse square law in a fictional universe that never followed it.
5. No, its called resonance. The dilthium didn't need to "power" Su'kal's power like a battery, It just needs to carry it through subspace.
6. You have made you general dislike for the show, and willingness to argue things in bad faith, pretty clear for ahile now. You clearly are holding Discovery to imagined fundamental laws that none of the other Trek shows followed only to say the show is bad for not following things the series never did. That is the definition of being knowingly, and intentionally, dishonest. Aka lying.
They also go into more detail about how its possible in this final episode. Hugh mentions he suspects Su'Kal is a polyploid. His chromosomal separation was disrupted in utero due to the subspace radiation, and mass amounts of dilithium on the planet, causing his genes to be effected by the environment around him, or more specifically, the dilthium. Adira mentions that dilthium has a subspace component to it, and thus, his connection to dilthium likely gives him a connection to subspace as well.
Hugh then mentions that Su'Kal's scream shook the planet, which causes Adira to mention that sound is a mechanical wave, whose energy passes through a medium, in this case, subspace. Su'Kal's scream traveled as the resonant frequency of dilthium's subspace component, which allowed it to propagate across the galaxy.
Or, in short, the Dillithum didn't "power" Su'kal's scream like a battery, it just resonated the sound like a tuning fork.
First you don't need to lie about my post. It was clearly not a rant.
1. You don't seem to comprehend the difference between anything you mentioned, specifically the orders of magnitude of their effects, which I already said was the issue in a previous post. There's a difference between snapping your fingers and creating an alternate reality for one person which may as well be a holodeck program in its effects, and wiping out pretty much all space travel because a child cried.
2. Again, if you want to say that we mine iron for energy you can say that. Dilithium itself is not a source of energy, but is very useful in energy production. Yet we've gone far away from the claim you made that dilithium was likely responsible for the Praxis explosion.
3. Still not sure where you're getting this, but again, even taking it as true, that's not how that works. The IC engine takes burning fuel and turns it into mechanical and electrical energy. That is what energy conversion is. Nothing about the steel in a car engine makes gasoline more powerful or extracts more energy than what there is released by combustion. Dilithium being an energy converter or power regulator or whatever you want to call it does not give it the magic powers of creating universe wide energy waves that destroys the usefulness of itself.
4. Without the inverse square law, then the Praxis explosion should hit every ship, planet, every thing in the universe. Hobus, or any other supernova would destroy every planet in every galaxy. Even the explosion of a starship warp core is going to affect the entire universe. Never have we ever seen that in Star Trek. Effects are localized over an area based on the power of those explosions because after a certain radius it has dissipated to the point of being largely harmless, which is the practical reality of the inverse square law.
Since its clear you don't understand this concept, to keep it simple, imagine a ring 100m radius and 100m tall, and 1m thick (thus circumference is 200*pi meters, and the area is 20000*pi meters^2). If we want to increase the radius to 500m and keep it 1m thick, how tall can it now be? The circumference of the new ring is 1000*pi meters, thus the height is (20000*pi)m^2/(1000*pi)m or 20m.
Again this is a simple example to try and illustrate the fact that as something expands in a radial direction the power/material/whatever that it is composed of must necessarily be distributed over a far wider area, so it eventually gets to the point of being incredibly small/weak and just stops being noticeable. In the EM spectrum its red shift.
It is simply not possible to have a show in space without the principle of the inverse square law without it being just fantasy.
5. Resonance doesn't do what you think it does, and apparently not what ST:D's writers think it does. Having something stimulate dilithium at its resonance frequency is fine. Having that then transmit to all dilithium in the universe requires an incredible power source to propagate that wave through the universe, subspace or otherwise, which a mutated child crying is not capable of doing. It also requires it to somehow maintain that frequency the entire way, not being dampened by a warp field or any other part of subspace, nor red shifting.
But that also doesn't explain why it would disrupt the function of dilithium in regards to the M/AM reaction, because resonance is a naturally stabilizing thing. Stable orbits of moons and planets are in resonance. Pendulum, quartz, most clocks are operating on the principle of resonance. Radios and broadcast TVs can be tuned to a particular station thanks to resonance.
Can resonance break things too? Yes, if they can't handle the stress of vibrating at that frequency. That frequency can be calculated though, and if dilithium crystal resonance would disrupt M/AM reactions catastrophically, then that would be known, and a system designed to dampen that frequency would exist to prevent that thing from happening. It would also vary from crystal to crystal based on their size and shape. I suppose we are supposed to imagine that this "subspace component" of dilithium is utterly identical across every piece of dilithium everywhere though.
6. Utterly false on every count about me, my attitude, and my posts. By your own definition of the word that makes you a liar. That isn't what the word means though, so you're not a liar, you're just wrong.
My god what a beautiful season finale. For a show that started its first season as almost unrecognisable to deliver such a purely star trek experience. I'm not ashamed to say I teared up a bit.
To get through your little rant here
1. You said nothing in Star Trek would make The Burn believable. I pointed out that Q, a god-like being shown to be able to do pretty much anything he desires, including casually creating a backward traveling temporal anomaly that almost destroyed humanity, simply to test Picard, exists. Hell, the Traveler flinging the ENT-D a billion LY(literally) away to the edge of the universe near instantly is a grander feat. And the Traveler isn't even particularly high on the god-being scale in Trek.
2. They do mine Dilthium for energy, thats partially what its used for. That's why there are dil mines on Remus.
3. Dilthium is not only a power regulator, but a power refinement tool. It doesn't just control the flow of the matter/anti-matter molecules, it takes the raw energy produced by their collision, and converts it into a more usable form.
4. As we see throughout Star Trek, there are various levels of subspace, each offering differing speeds at differing power rates that are not proportional to each other. In one layer it takes little to no energy to go super fast, and in other it takes a lot more to go nowhere near as fast. No one cares about your seemingly religious worship of the inverse square law in a fictional universe that never followed it.
5. No, its called resonance. The dilthium didn't need to "power" Su'kal's power like a battery, It just needs to carry it through subspace.
6. You have made you general dislike for the show, and willingness to argue things in bad faith, pretty clear for ahile now. You clearly are holding Discovery to imagined fundamental laws that none of the other Trek shows followed only to say the show is bad for not following things the series never did. That is the definition of being knowingly, and intentionally, dishonest. Aka lying.
They also go into more detail about how its possible in this final episode. Hugh mentions he suspects Su'Kal is a polyploid. His chromosomal separation was disrupted in utero due to the subspace radiation, and mass amounts of dilithium on the planet, causing his genes to be effected by the environment around him, or more specifically, the dilthium. Adira mentions that dilthium has a subspace component to it, and thus, his connection to dilthium likely gives him a connection to subspace as well.
Hugh then mentions that Su'Kal's scream shook the planet, which causes Adira to mention that sound is a mechanical wave, whose energy passes through a medium, in this case, subspace. Su'Kal's scream traveled as the resonant frequency of dilthium's subspace component, which allowed it to propagate across the galaxy.
Or, in short, the Dillithum didn't "power" Su'kal's scream like a battery, it just resonated the sound like a tuning fork.
If you listen to the explanations in TOS or the technobabble fests in later series they actually do make a lot of reference to real-world physics and physics theories (though they usually don't get it quite right, they at least make an attempt at it). In particular, in TOS they used quantum physics and some very early string theory, and in TNG and later they moved on to superstring theory and later to early M-theory and a few others.
And yes, sometimes they got it so unbelievably wrong it is laughable, but not all sci-fi writers are physicists so that is not surprising at all, and neither does it mean the times they get it wrong somehow negate the fact that they used popular versions of real theories as a base for the science in the show.
No, dilithium is not mined for energy, it is mined to get a vital component of energy producing systems, that is a very big difference. They are not the equivalent of fuel rods, they are more like control rods and steam turbines in a real-world reactor. And yes, the main output of a matter-antimatter reaction are gamma rays, the dilitium is used regulate the reaction and is involved in some way in the process for converting that to the electron plasma that the ships EPG conduits carry.
There is another problem with the Burn as it is, in the fact that the "planet of dilithium" is ground zero, at the very center of the dilithium destroying effect, yet is completely untouched by it.
While subspace in Star Trek seems to be a container word covering a number of related dimensions they do not use them in the way you describe (you may be thinking of the Honor Harrington stories instead since it works that way there). For instance, in subspace radio transmissions the speed at which the signal travels is dependent upon power and distance, which is why it is so much faster to use the relay network than tight beam a signal directly to a distant recipient.
Phasers, which rely on subspace nadion particles, appear to have the same weird quality, hand held phaser beams and bolts travel slowly but powerful ship mounted ones travel much faster, even going significantly FTL as shown by the fact they have running battles in warp in all of the series (even ENT) though they were most common in TOS.
So there is a definite correlation between propagation speed and power established ever since the very first Trek series, and to get an almost instantaneous omnidirectional effect all over the known galaxy would take a truly incredible amount of power. And except for that odd power/speed correlation subspace does use the inverse square law or something very similar since to get greater range (and in this particular case speed as well) they concentrate the signal into a tight beam instead of an omnidirectional broadcast when sending long range messages directly, an effect which is part of the same phenomena that causes the effects described by the inverse square law.
There's one thing that's kinda nitpicky but REALLY bothers me about the finale: why does the REFIT Discovery still use Disco and TOS era phasers!?! It should be using the same green phasers as all the other future ships!!
And a bigger issue is the turbolift are ... whoever came up with the idea of having a massive cavern of floating turbo lift cars is an absolute moron.
Other than those two things I thought the finale was pretty good, just wish we'd gotten some close ups of Voyager and the Nivar ships.
yeah, i noticed that about the turbolifts in S1 or 2 (i forget which one it showed up in)...where the hell is all that space coming from? compactified subspace manifolds aren't supposed to be invented for another few hundred years
then again, a shuttlebay that only held like...4 shuttles in TOS can apparently hold dozens of equally-sized drones, so...
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
No, dilithium is not mined for energy, it is mined to get a vital component of energy producing systems, that is a very big difference. They are not the equivalent of fuel rods, they are more like control rods and steam turbines in a real-world reactor. And yes, the main output of a matter-antimatter reaction are gamma rays, the dilitium is used regulate the reaction and is involved in some way in the process for converting that to the electron plasma that the ships EPG conduits carry.
There is another problem with the Burn as it is, in the fact that the "planet of dilithium" is ground zero, at the very center of the dilithium destroying effect, yet is completely untouched by it.
Which makes it extremely idiotic how the 32nd Century couldn't find a substitute for controlling matter-antimatter reactions. Magnetic fields and force fields would be a couple of methods for controlling a matter-antimatter reaction and that is not considering what is possible after 900 years of further development.
> @shadowfang240 said: > yeah, i noticed that about the turbolifts in S1 or 2 (i forget which one it showed up in)...where the hell is all that space coming from? compactified subspace manifolds aren't supposed to be invented for another few hundred years > > then again, a shuttlebay that only held like...4 shuttles in TOS can apparently hold dozens of equally-sized drones, so... > > i blame daniels
I agree. I hate this version of the turbolifts, they clearly only have it to show many moving objects and grand spaces. Same with those stupid R2 drones driving everywhere. The Kurtzmann team must be full of people who thought the Star Wars 'Special Edition' was a great idea. That also inserted so much random CGI sideline noise.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
This ending seems like the perfect way to end Discovery. Burnham finally obtained the Captain's chair. The Emerald Chain was dealt a major blow. Former members of the Federation were joining up with the Federation again. The Lieutenant of that Federation outpost finally made it to Starfleet HQ.
The only thing left is to see how the other major powers have fared in the 32nd Century like the Dominion, Borg, Voth, etc.
Yeah, the final episode was extremely good. Until the last minute or so.
I seriously cannot accept that Burnham was given a command. Considering what she has done in the past and the number of times she has ignored or outright tried to bypass an order. Even attacking her captain, muntiny and other items.
Yeah, Saru had his issues too. But nothing to the level of what Burnham has done.
I'd agree with you Val', were it not for the fact that this season alone has seen three or four characters (including Burnham herself!) explain various reasons why she isn't suitable for command. For one thing, Kirk and Picard virtually never disregarded the Chain of Command (and when they did, it was usually for very good reason or in defiance of illegal orders - or to return a friends' soul to their resurrected body by stealing a crippled hulk with a less-than-skeleton crew). Burnham has done that openly at least twice this season, and suggested it three or four times. Giving her a major command is rogue starship waiting to happen.
In fact, I'm flabbergasted the writers gave her the captaincy after explicitly drilling into us all season how she doesn't want it and, even if she did, isn't Captain material.
I loved how Burnham gave way to Saru at the start of the season. It showed she'd grown as a character. Yes, that growth caused issues, but that was okay because it was in character for her to make those decisions, and she accepted the consequences. She was still a protagonist - still working for the restoration of the Federation and everything Starfleet stood for - but she was a lot more likeable when she wasn't chafing under Starfleet regulations and could just be Burnham. And I didn't even have a massive problem with her in the first place.
But no, we couldn't have that. Might be seen as character development.
Which makes it extremely idiotic how the 32nd Century couldn't find a substitute for controlling matter-antimatter reactions. Magnetic fields and force fields would be a couple of methods for controlling a matter-antimatter reaction and that is not considering what is possible after 900 years of further development.
The Dominion was 2,000 years old by the time of its first encounter with the then 250ish year old Federation, and even it still used the same dilthium based warp drives since no one had found a better way. You want to talk about 900 years of development, try 1,800 and not being able to come up with something better.
Except the 29th Century Federation was able to master time travel in 700 years while far older civilizations like the Voth, Borg, and the Dominion were never shown to have mastered it. So it doesn't matter how long a civilization exists since some civilizations develop faster than others. If a civilization has mastered time travel, then they should have been able to come up with a better form of FTL technology. The Iconians created their gateways which is far more powerful than any other form of FTL technology. Khan from another reality was able to create an interstellar transporter which makes all space travel irrelevant using technology from the 23rd Century. So there is absolutely no reason why the 31st Century is still reliant on Dilithium.
The Borg stole Transwarp technology from another civilization and create a Transwarp Hub while the Voth was able to develop Transwarp technology on their own. Transwarp seems to be harder to use due to the derelict ships clogging its tunnels, but Underspace should be available for use.
As far as the Dominion is concerned, the impression I get is that are a bit like the Klingons in their "if it ain't broke don't fix it" style of technological advancement. They have been so concerned with preventing solids from getting them that they probably are not much interested in researching anything that does not further that goal in some way.
According to Weyoun they have been around a very long time (though Weyoun is not a reliable witness since his job was feeding disinformation to the Federation) and their tech does not seem to have changed much over that time.
Except the 29th Century Federation was able to master time travel in 700 years while far older civilizations like the Voth, Borg, and the Dominion were never shown to have mastered it.
...
The Iconians created their gateways which is far more powerful than any other form of FTL technology.
Iconian Gateways are also not FTL, they aren't even a type of flight. In canon, the only gateways we see are person sized. STO's ship sized gateways are non-canon, so that still leaves the need the use dilithum powered ship to move larger things between planets. Not to mention, no species in 200,000 years before the Federation was able to learn how the Iconian Gateway system worked.
Except in ST: Picard we see the Borg have a similar tech to Iconian gateways, helping the cast escape the Borg cube, and they didn't make it themselves. That tech is plausibly a precursor to the gateways.
Why didn't they address that in ST:D? Who knows.
The Borg stole Transwarp technology from another civilization and create a Transwarp Hub while the Voth was able to develop Transwarp technology on their own. Transwarp seems to be harder to use due to the derelict ships clogging its tunnels, but Underspace should be available for use.
There is no canon on how the Borg got transwarp. Also, Transwarp isn't safe even without the ship clogging it. Its mentioned in Voyager that going through Transwarp puts intense gravimetric sheer on ships. So much so that even the all mighty Borg Cube has to project an incredibly powerful structural integrity field around to it prevent from being destroyed. Seven of Nine mentions in the episode "Inside Man" that Voyager using this same method to get back to the Alpha Quadrant would result in the ship suffering significant damage. This is presumably why we see Borg ship use normal warp, even though they have access to the much faster transwarp. It simply isn't safe for long distances. Space trash not even considered. And if it isn't safe for Borg Cubes to use it long, it sure as hell isn't safe for civilian ships either. Book's ship isn't Borg Cube strength for damn sure. Doubt the Veridian is either.
And Underspace
A. Also had trash in it, to the point of being dangerous to travel
B. Only existed in a limited area in the Delta Quadrant. It didn't even reach into the Alpha Quadrant.
If Borg can deal with the gravimetric sheer in the 24th century, so can future Federation ships, as established and demonstrated by ST:D.
Why they can't clear out the space trash, or why it doesn't leave to normal space, or actually get destroyed itself by gravimetric sheer, is a whole other bunch of questions that lack a sensible answer.
Assuming the debris in transwarp conduits thing comes from the dialog at the end of Voyager, getting rid of it would be fairly simple by shutting down the conduit at a pre-scheduled time periodically. They technobabble about them being similar to a stable wormhole, but instead of short circuiting space directly they are an artificial quantum corridor of unnaturally warp-friendly conditions.
The fact that the wreckage of the cubes following them would block others from following them long enough for the transwarp hub's destruction to complete and block them for a longer time does not necessarily mean the junk hangs around and automatically appears or whatever in every corridor after that between two particular locations.
ENT established that warp without dilithium was possible (probably as a patch on the problem First Contact introduced by having Cochrane do the first warp test from Earth which is not a dilithium producing world instead of Alpha C, though technically it was first mentioned in TNG as being how DY-500 ships like the SS Mariposa went FTL), it is just painfully slow (limited to the the warp 1.x range) so there would be clumps of short range intersteller cargo service and whatnot logically, the only real problem would be longer distance runs across relatively empty areas. Both TNG and ENT show ships using YPS pulse fusion warp engines. Technically you only need dilithium and matter/antimatter cores to break the warp 2 barrier.
Another thing that the DSC writers seem to have forgotten (or the review/analysis articles and videos don't mention anyway) is that one of the first things that would disappear in the post burn slow travel era is the prime directive. All of those pre-warp industrialized nations the Federation used to protect would be prime targets for the unscrupulous seeking resources to keep their own worlds or or businesses or whatever going so the formerly rare circumstances that Bajor (and ancient Qo'noS) went though of offworlder occupation would be commonplace. Real world history has shown that the power vacuums when major civilizations go down are not at all friendly times, and Star Trek would not be immune to things like human nature in those circumstances.
Another thing that the DSC writers seem to have forgotten (or the review/analysis articles and videos don't mention anyway) is that one of the first things that would disappear in the post burn slow travel era is the prime directive. All of those pre-warp industrialized nations the Federation used to protect would be prime targets for the unscrupulous seeking resources to keep their own worlds or or businesses or whatever going so the formerly rare circumstances that Bajor (and ancient Qo'noS) went though of offworlder occupation would be commonplace. Real world history has shown that the power vacuums when major civilizations go down are not at all friendly times, and Star Trek would not be immune to things like human nature in those circumstances.
The writers did NOT forget this, the Emerald Chain's exploitation of pre-warp and otherwise needy worlds came up several times in season 3. Why do you insist on discussing things you don't know anything about, in relation to a show you freely admit to not having watched yourself?
Another thing that the DSC writers seem to have forgotten (or the review/analysis articles and videos don't mention anyway) is that one of the first things that would disappear in the post burn slow travel era is the prime directive. All of those pre-warp industrialized nations the Federation used to protect would be prime targets for the unscrupulous seeking resources to keep their own worlds or or businesses or whatever going so the formerly rare circumstances that Bajor (and ancient Qo'noS) went though of offworlder occupation would be commonplace. Real world history has shown that the power vacuums when major civilizations go down are not at all friendly times, and Star Trek would not be immune to things like human nature in those circumstances.
The writers did NOT forget this, the Emerald Chain's exploitation of pre-warp and otherwise needy worlds came up several times in season 3. Why do you insist on discussing things you don't know anything about, in relation to a show you freely admit to not having watched yourself?
On a plot design level it is quite possible to talk about it from the synopsis, analysis, and review articles and the other talk here and the other Trek forums easily enough since it all falls into classic, recognizable patterns the way most stories do, and most of the arguments are based on older content from the various classic series, which I have seen.
Those sources are getting thinner though since DSC is not doing anything particularly new this season as far as plotting is concerned (no, changing setting alone does not count as new on that level), it is safely treading a path of least resistance down the middle of generic valley so its not exactly good fodder for plotting examples now that they have taken the show completely out of the classic eras.
I saw most of the earlier DSC stuff but between COVID lockdown and the fact that I don't have the budget to justify getting CBSAA for only a few very short-season series which barely add up to a full season's worth of episodes all together per season I have not seen S3 yet, and I have made no secret of that fact. I am not even saying the show is utter garbage, I have actually liked what I have seen of it despite the rather lazy writing as long as I ignore CBS's insistence that it is on the same timeline as the other Treks and just watch it for itself.
Why I let myself get drawn into detail stuff like these recent posts I sometimes wonder myself, but I like Star Trek in general and the early-season speculation is a good exercise so I follow the threads longer than I should I suppose.
Comments
First you don't need to lie about my post. It was clearly not a rant.
1. You don't seem to comprehend the difference between anything you mentioned, specifically the orders of magnitude of their effects, which I already said was the issue in a previous post. There's a difference between snapping your fingers and creating an alternate reality for one person which may as well be a holodeck program in its effects, and wiping out pretty much all space travel because a child cried.
2. Again, if you want to say that we mine iron for energy you can say that. Dilithium itself is not a source of energy, but is very useful in energy production. Yet we've gone far away from the claim you made that dilithium was likely responsible for the Praxis explosion.
3. Still not sure where you're getting this, but again, even taking it as true, that's not how that works. The IC engine takes burning fuel and turns it into mechanical and electrical energy. That is what energy conversion is. Nothing about the steel in a car engine makes gasoline more powerful or extracts more energy than what there is released by combustion. Dilithium being an energy converter or power regulator or whatever you want to call it does not give it the magic powers of creating universe wide energy waves that destroys the usefulness of itself.
4. Without the inverse square law, then the Praxis explosion should hit every ship, planet, every thing in the universe. Hobus, or any other supernova would destroy every planet in every galaxy. Even the explosion of a starship warp core is going to affect the entire universe. Never have we ever seen that in Star Trek. Effects are localized over an area based on the power of those explosions because after a certain radius it has dissipated to the point of being largely harmless, which is the practical reality of the inverse square law.
Since its clear you don't understand this concept, to keep it simple, imagine a ring 100m radius and 100m tall, and 1m thick (thus circumference is 200*pi meters, and the area is 20000*pi meters^2). If we want to increase the radius to 500m and keep it 1m thick, how tall can it now be? The circumference of the new ring is 1000*pi meters, thus the height is (20000*pi)m^2/(1000*pi)m or 20m.
Again this is a simple example to try and illustrate the fact that as something expands in a radial direction the power/material/whatever that it is composed of must necessarily be distributed over a far wider area, so it eventually gets to the point of being incredibly small/weak and just stops being noticeable. In the EM spectrum its red shift.
It is simply not possible to have a show in space without the principle of the inverse square law without it being just fantasy.
5. Resonance doesn't do what you think it does, and apparently not what ST:D's writers think it does. Having something stimulate dilithium at its resonance frequency is fine. Having that then transmit to all dilithium in the universe requires an incredible power source to propagate that wave through the universe, subspace or otherwise, which a mutated child crying is not capable of doing. It also requires it to somehow maintain that frequency the entire way, not being dampened by a warp field or any other part of subspace, nor red shifting.
But that also doesn't explain why it would disrupt the function of dilithium in regards to the M/AM reaction, because resonance is a naturally stabilizing thing. Stable orbits of moons and planets are in resonance. Pendulum, quartz, most clocks are operating on the principle of resonance. Radios and broadcast TVs can be tuned to a particular station thanks to resonance.
Can resonance break things too? Yes, if they can't handle the stress of vibrating at that frequency. That frequency can be calculated though, and if dilithium crystal resonance would disrupt M/AM reactions catastrophically, then that would be known, and a system designed to dampen that frequency would exist to prevent that thing from happening. It would also vary from crystal to crystal based on their size and shape. I suppose we are supposed to imagine that this "subspace component" of dilithium is utterly identical across every piece of dilithium everywhere though.
6. Utterly false on every count about me, my attitude, and my posts. By your own definition of the word that makes you a liar. That isn't what the word means though, so you're not a liar, you're just wrong.
If you listen to the explanations in TOS or the technobabble fests in later series they actually do make a lot of reference to real-world physics and physics theories (though they usually don't get it quite right, they at least make an attempt at it). In particular, in TOS they used quantum physics and some very early string theory, and in TNG and later they moved on to superstring theory and later to early M-theory and a few others.
And yes, sometimes they got it so unbelievably wrong it is laughable, but not all sci-fi writers are physicists so that is not surprising at all, and neither does it mean the times they get it wrong somehow negate the fact that they used popular versions of real theories as a base for the science in the show.
No, dilithium is not mined for energy, it is mined to get a vital component of energy producing systems, that is a very big difference. They are not the equivalent of fuel rods, they are more like control rods and steam turbines in a real-world reactor. And yes, the main output of a matter-antimatter reaction are gamma rays, the dilitium is used regulate the reaction and is involved in some way in the process for converting that to the electron plasma that the ships EPG conduits carry.
There is another problem with the Burn as it is, in the fact that the "planet of dilithium" is ground zero, at the very center of the dilithium destroying effect, yet is completely untouched by it.
While subspace in Star Trek seems to be a container word covering a number of related dimensions they do not use them in the way you describe (you may be thinking of the Honor Harrington stories instead since it works that way there). For instance, in subspace radio transmissions the speed at which the signal travels is dependent upon power and distance, which is why it is so much faster to use the relay network than tight beam a signal directly to a distant recipient.
Phasers, which rely on subspace nadion particles, appear to have the same weird quality, hand held phaser beams and bolts travel slowly but powerful ship mounted ones travel much faster, even going significantly FTL as shown by the fact they have running battles in warp in all of the series (even ENT) though they were most common in TOS.
So there is a definite correlation between propagation speed and power established ever since the very first Trek series, and to get an almost instantaneous omnidirectional effect all over the known galaxy would take a truly incredible amount of power. And except for that odd power/speed correlation subspace does use the inverse square law or something very similar since to get greater range (and in this particular case speed as well) they concentrate the signal into a tight beam instead of an omnidirectional broadcast when sending long range messages directly, an effect which is part of the same phenomena that causes the effects described by the inverse square law.
Or: when activated, all players in Sector Space are booted to login screen.
...
Devs, I'm kidding. Don't do that.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
And a bigger issue is the turbolift are ... whoever came up with the idea of having a massive cavern of floating turbo lift cars is an absolute moron.
Other than those two things I thought the finale was pretty good, just wish we'd gotten some close ups of Voyager and the Nivar ships.
then again, a shuttlebay that only held like...4 shuttles in TOS can apparently hold dozens of equally-sized drones, so...
i blame daniels
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Which makes it extremely idiotic how the 32nd Century couldn't find a substitute for controlling matter-antimatter reactions. Magnetic fields and force fields would be a couple of methods for controlling a matter-antimatter reaction and that is not considering what is possible after 900 years of further development.
> yeah, i noticed that about the turbolifts in S1 or 2 (i forget which one it showed up in)...where the hell is all that space coming from? compactified subspace manifolds aren't supposed to be invented for another few hundred years
>
> then again, a shuttlebay that only held like...4 shuttles in TOS can apparently hold dozens of equally-sized drones, so...
>
> i blame daniels
I agree. I hate this version of the turbolifts, they clearly only have it to show many moving objects and grand spaces. Same with those stupid R2 drones driving everywhere. The Kurtzmann team must be full of people who thought the Star Wars 'Special Edition' was a great idea. That also inserted so much random CGI sideline noise.
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The only thing left is to see how the other major powers have fared in the 32nd Century like the Dominion, Borg, Voth, etc.
I seriously cannot accept that Burnham was given a command. Considering what she has done in the past and the number of times she has ignored or outright tried to bypass an order. Even attacking her captain, muntiny and other items.
Yeah, Saru had his issues too. But nothing to the level of what Burnham has done.
In fact, I'm flabbergasted the writers gave her the captaincy after explicitly drilling into us all season how she doesn't want it and, even if she did, isn't Captain material.
I loved how Burnham gave way to Saru at the start of the season. It showed she'd grown as a character. Yes, that growth caused issues, but that was okay because it was in character for her to make those decisions, and she accepted the consequences. She was still a protagonist - still working for the restoration of the Federation and everything Starfleet stood for - but she was a lot more likeable when she wasn't chafing under Starfleet regulations and could just be Burnham. And I didn't even have a massive problem with her in the first place.
But no, we couldn't have that. Might be seen as character development.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
The dirtiness of Discovery--
*Continuing washing eyes*
Except the 29th Century Federation was able to master time travel in 700 years while far older civilizations like the Voth, Borg, and the Dominion were never shown to have mastered it. So it doesn't matter how long a civilization exists since some civilizations develop faster than others. If a civilization has mastered time travel, then they should have been able to come up with a better form of FTL technology. The Iconians created their gateways which is far more powerful than any other form of FTL technology. Khan from another reality was able to create an interstellar transporter which makes all space travel irrelevant using technology from the 23rd Century. So there is absolutely no reason why the 31st Century is still reliant on Dilithium.
The Borg stole Transwarp technology from another civilization and create a Transwarp Hub while the Voth was able to develop Transwarp technology on their own. Transwarp seems to be harder to use due to the derelict ships clogging its tunnels, but Underspace should be available for use.
According to Weyoun they have been around a very long time (though Weyoun is not a reliable witness since his job was feeding disinformation to the Federation) and their tech does not seem to have changed much over that time.
Except in ST: Picard we see the Borg have a similar tech to Iconian gateways, helping the cast escape the Borg cube, and they didn't make it themselves. That tech is plausibly a precursor to the gateways.
Why didn't they address that in ST:D? Who knows.
If Borg can deal with the gravimetric sheer in the 24th century, so can future Federation ships, as established and demonstrated by ST:D.
Why they can't clear out the space trash, or why it doesn't leave to normal space, or actually get destroyed itself by gravimetric sheer, is a whole other bunch of questions that lack a sensible answer.
Yeah, but it was Episode 13. Might want to check yourself next time, whoever you are.
The fact that the wreckage of the cubes following them would block others from following them long enough for the transwarp hub's destruction to complete and block them for a longer time does not necessarily mean the junk hangs around and automatically appears or whatever in every corridor after that between two particular locations.
ENT established that warp without dilithium was possible (probably as a patch on the problem First Contact introduced by having Cochrane do the first warp test from Earth which is not a dilithium producing world instead of Alpha C, though technically it was first mentioned in TNG as being how DY-500 ships like the SS Mariposa went FTL), it is just painfully slow (limited to the the warp 1.x range) so there would be clumps of short range intersteller cargo service and whatnot logically, the only real problem would be longer distance runs across relatively empty areas. Both TNG and ENT show ships using YPS pulse fusion warp engines. Technically you only need dilithium and matter/antimatter cores to break the warp 2 barrier.
Another thing that the DSC writers seem to have forgotten (or the review/analysis articles and videos don't mention anyway) is that one of the first things that would disappear in the post burn slow travel era is the prime directive. All of those pre-warp industrialized nations the Federation used to protect would be prime targets for the unscrupulous seeking resources to keep their own worlds or or businesses or whatever going so the formerly rare circumstances that Bajor (and ancient Qo'noS) went though of offworlder occupation would be commonplace. Real world history has shown that the power vacuums when major civilizations go down are not at all friendly times, and Star Trek would not be immune to things like human nature in those circumstances.
The writers did NOT forget this, the Emerald Chain's exploitation of pre-warp and otherwise needy worlds came up several times in season 3. Why do you insist on discussing things you don't know anything about, in relation to a show you freely admit to not having watched yourself?
On a plot design level it is quite possible to talk about it from the synopsis, analysis, and review articles and the other talk here and the other Trek forums easily enough since it all falls into classic, recognizable patterns the way most stories do, and most of the arguments are based on older content from the various classic series, which I have seen.
Those sources are getting thinner though since DSC is not doing anything particularly new this season as far as plotting is concerned (no, changing setting alone does not count as new on that level), it is safely treading a path of least resistance down the middle of generic valley so its not exactly good fodder for plotting examples now that they have taken the show completely out of the classic eras.
I saw most of the earlier DSC stuff but between COVID lockdown and the fact that I don't have the budget to justify getting CBSAA for only a few very short-season series which barely add up to a full season's worth of episodes all together per season I have not seen S3 yet, and I have made no secret of that fact. I am not even saying the show is utter garbage, I have actually liked what I have seen of it despite the rather lazy writing as long as I ignore CBS's insistence that it is on the same timeline as the other Treks and just watch it for itself.
Why I let myself get drawn into detail stuff like these recent posts I sometimes wonder myself, but I like Star Trek in general and the early-season speculation is a good exercise so I follow the threads longer than I should I suppose.