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Discovery Season 3 Discussion *spoilers obviously*
somtaawkhar
Member Posts: 10,222 Arc User
So just watched episode 1 of Discovery
spoilers below
Lots of nice little canon nods, and an overall good episode IMO.
spoilers below
- The Burn was caused by most of the dilthium around the galaxy suddenly exploding for unknown reasons
- Burn happened around 100-120 years before present day of 3188, around 16-36 years after Daniels timeframe of 3052
- All time travel tech was destroyed after the Temporal Wars
- The Federation only has 2 ships in a 600LY radius of a certain communication relay
- The Andorians are working with the Orions to operate a giant courier network where couriers get paid in just enough of the remaining diltihum needed to make the trips
- Quantum Slipstream is a thing, but very hard to use due to the materials needed to operate it
Lots of nice little canon nods, and an overall good episode IMO.
Post edited by somtaawkhar on
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Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Another plot point. Time travel - I interpreted that to mean into the past - is not possible anymore. We need more elaboration as to why that is? It's important to starship sales Star Trek Online. I highly doubt the Ferengi are gonna stumble upon the tech to resell to us. Just sayin'.
I understood it to mean that after the Temporal War time travel tech was banned and destroyed
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
With that guy running that show its either he has no idea about canon content or he is just trying to retcon the entire franchise.
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> With that guy running that show its either he has no idea about canon content or he is just trying to retcon the entire franchise.
What is being retconned?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If you know the canon of this franchise I shouldn't have to explain but case in point watch Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home. That is just one method that was established which in itself makes it where sure yeah did they put an invisible wall around ever star in the universe? roflmao. So then he can feel free to explain all the other methods too but basically his new name is Retconzman.
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Time travel tech wasn't banned and destroyed, but sent to the early 25th Century.
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> I'm not following this argument as it makes no sense...
It's not that hard - you can travel back to the past in Trekverse by slingshotting around a star. It's not technology but physics based. A broken-down B'Rel could be modified to do it and Spock performed the necessary complex calculations in his head.
It is impossible to regulate or prevent this.
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> Except Daniels, and people in his organization, can detect when people use time travel methods, and then send agents to either before they left, or after they arrived, somewhere, and prevent them from going back at all, or make them go back.
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> Its easy to regulate or prevent this, we already had, in-universe, depictions of them doing so.
Well then Daniels should go to the future and fix Discovery season 3–or better yet come to 2020 and fix the writer’s room.
I’m half teasing. Star Trek is not hard sci-fi anyway. My expectations for the series are low. But I will still probably watch it, even if it is just to critique it.
Well, I don't care what Roddenberry had planed for Star Trek. I fell in love with what Star Trek was, not what it was originally meant to be. And all the "traditional" elements of Star Trek are now missing. An optimistic outlook on what humanity could become? Gone. Exploration and discovery, at least roughly based on real, actual science and phenomena? Gone. Inspirational stories that could make you think about yourself, your morals and your life? Gone.
I recently saw a documentary of real astronauts and scientists who said Star Trek was one of their childhood inspirations to take up their profession. I don't think that in 20 years, people working in these fields are going to say the same about Discovery or Picard.
Your point that so much has been done in Star Trek, it's difficult to come up with something new that still feels like "old Star Trek", is a legitimate one. And yet, there are so many books with original ideas. The prologue to Picard (pre-synth attack), for example, would have made for some fantastic Star Trek.
Just to clarifiy, I don't think that Discovery is a bad show. It just doesn't feel like Star Trek anymore, to me at least.
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It's possible that the crew of Discovery could use the Red Angel data they still have stored (assuming they have any stored) to recreate timeships, but one of Burnham's first actions on crashing into Haim was to set the suit to self-destruct, so she can't do anything about it right now - and the future her mother was anchored to no longer exists, since they managed to get the data away from Control (as evidenced by the fact that life exists at all).
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Also... GRUDGE THE CAT!
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Banned and destroyed is the ultimate in lazy writing. NOTHING ever discovered can be retracted like that, knowledge is one genie that can never be stuffed back in the bottle. Especially when it is so easy to do with a warp powered ship that Trek is full of ships that have done it accidentally.
The "Andromeda is Star Trek's future" myth is just that, a myth, Roddenberry never planned for the end of the Federation. The Andromeda pitch was something else entirely which he proposed to a number of studios and when they did not pick it up he took it to Paramount and said that if they did not like it as it was he could ADAPT IT to become a post-Federation Trek (since Star Trek turned out to be his Sherlock Holms or Tarzan and every time he tried to pitch a new series they always expected it to be Star Trek). And even then no one picked it up until after he died and someone else went and recreated it from Roddenberry's notes (which turned out to be far from complete).
As for the "Naked Time" incident, that temporal transit was due to cold-starting the warp engines, a theoretical impossibility that had a high chance of blowing up the ship (they only did it because the alternative was worse). It was unintended, and there would have been no way to use it to "alter" the ship to make it capable of using a time-travel method that hadn't even been discovered yet.
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> Banned and destroyed is the ultimate in lazy writing. NOTHING ever discovered can be retracted like that, knowledge is one genie that can never be stuffed back in the bottle. Especially when it is so easy to do with a warp powered ship that Trek is full of ships that have done it accidentally.
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Knowledge can very easily be stuffed back in the bottle...depending on how widespread that knowledge is. Is the slingshot effect common knowledge? I don’t think so since I believe Kirk and company are the only ones to use that method(I could be wrong). Kirk’s logs and the formula get classified by Star Fleet and locked away by Temporal Affairs. Your average captain and/or civilian doesn’t know about it. Temporal War happens. Time travel devices and ships are destroyed and banned. Slingshot effect, which was kept from the general public, is deleted and forgotten. Can someone accidentally discover the slingshot effect...sure but in an era where everyone is dilithium deprived not too many people are gonna be warping towards a sun.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And clearly no one knew about Mycelial Technology in the future either, showing that classifying Discovery's Spore Drive did put that back in the bottle too. Hell... we never really hear about Genesis again after ST3. The only reason the Genesis Planet failed was because the device was not used in the intended environment, an already existing planet. It was used in a Nebula aboard a heavily damaged starship. We don't know if Genesis would have been stable if it had been used on a planet. But the tech was dropped and classified because of not only the failure of the Genesis Planet, but its potential use as a weapon that attracted the Klingons.
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The official word about the Genesis device was that the process was flawed, Marcus's team did not understand all the ramifications of the protomatter matrix they used and it was not stable. In STO the Lukari DO have the knowlege to make that kind of thing work, which is how they are able to reverse the damage from the Tzenkethi protomatter torpedo attacks.
And speaking of flaws, classifying something, even destroying the detailed information and just keeping a summary, does not work to stuff the genie back in. Someone always has to know a lot about it to manage the classified restriction, so it remains as a sort of conundrum.
And time travel can be done in a number of ways, it is intrinsic to the way warp drive works. All it takes is a particular kind of stress on the drive, either by forcing a quick cold start or by passing too close to a powerful enough gravity well at a high enough warp factor. And it does not take much, a close pass around a G0 star is enough if you know what you are doing, or a more distant one by a neutron star or singularity does it without any kind of knowledge or preparation (though it is much harder on the ship). Not to mention other anomalies, like the one that caused the loop where the D was rammed dozens or hundreds of times by an old Reliant that accidentally came through.
While the Spore drive is esoteric enough that the Federation might be able to clamp a lid on it in time, doing that with time travel would be no more successful than the US was in stuffing the nuclear genie back in its bottle.