TOS knew it's effects might not be that great which is why they had characters who were interesting to watch and enjoyable stories. What's disco's excuse?
.I too am kind of sick of these characters always coming back. I want a new galactic threat. Something that maybe even introduces a new area of space. After ViL, I barely even venture into the gamma quadrant like, at all. I honestly would love it if they brought back dimplomacy/first contact missions. idk, there just needs to be some change in the formula. something they haven't done before.
And as for the shows. I'm a future thinker. I don't want Star Trek to keep revisiting the past. Im glad Discovery looks the way it does. I forgive TOS because it was the 60's. Effects were primitive, and their budget was basically poverty by today's standards. They did the best they could with the resources they had.
I'm 60 years old, and I cut my teeth on TOS, but I do agree with most of what you say. I even liked as lot of Disco, though there were some things I didn't care for.
I liked Tilly, even if she was a bit of a Mary Sue.
I loved Tilly as Captain Killy. She was smoking hot in that black and gold armor, and it was fun to see her play the bad girl.
I liked Stamets as a character, but got bored when they used him as a tool for woke exposition.
I liked Lorca and The Empress. I liked the badass side of their nature, and I have always been very fond of Michelle Yeoh, she's a great actress.
I liked Captain Pike and how he was portrayed.
I enjoyed learning more about Section 31.
I wasn't crazy about Burnham. The actress just didn't appeal to me.
I wasn't crazy about the JJ Trek Klingons.
In summary, I liked Disco best when it was exploring the boundaries. I liked it the least when it was used as a vehicle for woke messaging and virtue signaling.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,667Community Moderator
TOS wasn't shy about some controvertial things in its time. Back then the idea of Kirk and Uhura kissing on screen in that one episode probably drove some people crazy because "its not right". Yet today its looked upon as historic.
I may be less inclined to rage against anything "woke" in Star Trek, becuase I'm not trying to compare it to real world events. Its what the characters are facing in that episode. Yes Star Trek does draw some inspiration from real world events going on, but honestly I enjoy it more when I DON'T try and inject reality into it. Let the characters face these challenges in universe and just enjoy the story.
Also I STILL don't understand all this "woke" shtako. That and the so called "cancel culture". Call me old fashioned but that kinda comes across as spoiled brat attention seeking.
God I sound like an old man. I'm not that old! I only grew up with TNG!
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I'm just now playing through the "J'Ula's Discovery" episodes. I'd already played "Measure of Morality" months back (and that was GOOD!). It all starts out strong but just becomes back-to-back system patrol stuff with not even any ground missions. A bit disappointing.
I didn't play any of these newer missions. Couldn't they have made something more different than discovery pi card spin off, year of the klingons thingy?
take your pick - I Love Lucy, Sea Hunt, Adventures in Paradise, I Spy and Movin' with Nancy all aired before star trek, and all had interracial kisses - though I Love Lucy is disputed, but the rest aren't
and that's just AMERICAN TV - british TV had some too
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
take your pick - I Love Lucy, Sea Hunt, Adventures in Paradise, I Spy and Movin' with Nancy all aired before star trek, and all had interracial kisses - though I Love Lucy is disputed, but the rest aren't
and that's just AMERICAN TV - british TV had some too
Oooh Sea Hunt! With Lloyd Bridges! I used to watch that religiously.
TOS wasn't shy about some controvertial things in its time. Back then the idea of Kirk and Uhura kissing on screen in that one episode probably drove some people crazy because "its not right". Yet today its looked upon as historic.
I may be less inclined to rage against anything "woke" in Star Trek, becuase I'm not trying to compare it to real world events. Its what the characters are facing in that episode. Yes Star Trek does draw some inspiration from real world events going on, but honestly I enjoy it more when I DON'T try and inject reality into it. Let the characters face these challenges in universe and just enjoy the story.
Also I STILL don't understand all this "woke" shtako. That and the so called "cancel culture". Call me old fashioned but that kinda comes across as spoiled brat attention seeking.
God I sound like an old man. I'm not that old! I only grew up with TNG!
TOS was subtle in what it did. Disco uses a battering ram.
.I too am kind of sick of these characters always coming back. I want a new galactic threat. Something that maybe even introduces a new area of space. After ViL, I barely even venture into the gamma quadrant like, at all. I honestly would love it if they brought back dimplomacy/first contact missions. idk, there just needs to be some change in the formula. something they haven't done before.
And as for the shows. I'm a future thinker. I don't want Star Trek to keep revisiting the past. Im glad Discovery looks the way it does. I forgive TOS because it was the 60's. Effects were primitive, and their budget was basically poverty by today's standards. They did the best they could with the resources they had.
I'm 60 years old, and I cut my teeth on TOS, but I do agree with most of what you say. I even liked as lot of Disco, though there were some things I didn't care for.
I liked Tilly, even if she was a bit of a Mary Sue.
I loved Tilly as Captain Killy. She was smoking hot in that black and gold armor, and it was fun to see her play the bad girl.
I liked Stamets as a character, but got bored when they used him as a tool for woke exposition.
I liked Lorca and The Empress. I liked the badass side of their nature, and I have always been very fond of Michelle Yeoh, she's a great actress.
I liked Captain Pike and how he was portrayed.
I enjoyed learning more about Section 31.
I wasn't crazy about Burnham. The actress just didn't appeal to me.
I wasn't crazy about the JJ Trek Klingons.
In summary, I liked Disco best when it was exploring the boundaries. I liked it the least when it was used as a vehicle for woke messaging and virtue signaling.
Pity they took those ideas and characters from an indie game designer, and got away with it.
Lower Decks is how Disco SHOULD have been ,since it WAS focusing on non captains.
TOS remastered did well, as did "In a Mirror Darkly".
Modern does not have to be all gribblly and loaded with kibble, like star wars, OR looking out of place from prior stuff.
Some folks to Armada 3 patch and made a nice TOS set, including a TOS Discovery, which really looked good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0d6cIMdSY <---- Sometime after 1:26:00 mark, within 5 minutes or so.
But this is stuff FROM hardcore-fans TO hardcore-fans. If Discovery would have been made only for the hardcore-fans and nobody else it would have flopped really hard.
For instance, the TNG-movies' low box-office-returns didn't come out of nowhere back then. They flopped really hard because general audiences were pretty much unimpressed, because so many things in those movies don't mean anything to those who didn't watch the shows or previous movies.
As for J'ula... after playing the most recent episodes I actually start to see a glimpse of an actual character there.
I don't like or care to play the new fake Star Trek episodes. I'm also tired of hearing about Julie, or Ula, or cross dressing J'ula TRIBBLE, or whatever. One of my fav characters to play is a female Klingon. So I'm horrified of possible changes to the Klingon faction.
Why don't Dev just create a new alien enemy for them to fight. It doesn't have to involve the Romulan or the Federation. Can't Dev just create a new enemy so the Klingon faction can have something to do without involving the fake star trek. Which I hope dies soon, I'm talking about TRIBBLE and STP.
STO has been very different from Star Trek canon, and fake star trek. Just create a new enemy. Yes, the Gamma storyline was brilliant, thank you. I wish Dev stayed with that instead of fake star trek. But if corporate CBS forces you to incorporate fake star trek, fine, we get it. But that shouldn't stop new content with new enemies or bring back the Hur'q.
The Gamma storyline was brilliant. Please continue it. And don't change it and add fake star trek content.
But this is stuff FROM hardcore-fans TO hardcore-fans. If Discovery would have been made only for the hardcore-fans and nobody else it would have flopped really hard.
For instance, the TNG-movies' low box-office-returns didn't come out of nowhere back then. They flopped really hard because general audiences were pretty much unimpressed, because so many things in those movies don't mean anything to those who didn't watch the shows or previous movies.
As for J'ula... after playing the most recent episodes I actually start to see a glimpse of an actual character there.
'general audience' also watch TRIBBLE like keeping up with the kardassians, and other junk. Not my fault 'general audience' like sleeze, explosions and double d' flopping about.
The LoTR films were made by a fan for fans, and even the 'general audience' liked it. It CAN be done.
If fake star trek would have followed canon. Took place 100 years after Voyager. And was based on episodes instead of long story arcs like GOT. It would have attracted new and old fans.
The Next Generation movies were not as popular because the writing was bad. Picard's clone? Queen Borg? Soren? The Reman? All the Next Gen movies may have been rushed. It wasn't the characters or the back story. It was the none canon content that ruined the movie.
LoTR proves that if you stay with canon, it works.
Don't believe, look at Star Wars. People came in for the Star Wars back story, they left for the crappy new content.
'general audience' also watch TRIBBLE like keeping up with the kardassians, and other junk. Not my fault 'general audience' like sleeze, explosions and double d' flopping about.
'general audience' also determines if an event/show/movie/game/book is commercially successful or a flop, directly influencing the studio's decision on what to do with it (as in 'continue' or 'shutdown'). So you gotta find a middleground somewhere, like it or not.
I didn't play any of these newer missions. Couldn't they have made something more different than discovery pi card spin off, year of the klingons thingy?
So you see that J'ula is in the episode and immediately think it's "Discovery-content". Spoiler: It's not so simple.
If fake star trek would have followed canon. Took place 100 years after Voyager. And was based on episodes instead of long story arcs like GOT. It would have attracted new and old fans.
The Next Generation movies were not as popular because the writing was bad. Picard's clone? Queen Borg? Soren? The Reman? All the Next Gen movies may have been rushed. It wasn't the characters or the back story. It was the none canon content that ruined the movie.
LoTR proves that if you stay with canon, it works.
Don't believe, look at Star Wars. People came in for the Star Wars back story, they left for the crappy new content.
Fortunately you don't get to determine what is or isn't canon.
Well, the execs, whom I view as bean counters, who THINK they got talent and brains, just divided the fandoms, rather than uniting it.
Comments
And yet if it weren't for that type of show Discovery would never be here. I think you assume to much because new and flashy isn't always better.
Star Trek Continues, Axanar, there's plenty of work wither it was completed or shut down that shows it can work even in this day and age.
I'm 60 years old, and I cut my teeth on TOS, but I do agree with most of what you say. I even liked as lot of Disco, though there were some things I didn't care for.
I liked Tilly, even if she was a bit of a Mary Sue.
I loved Tilly as Captain Killy. She was smoking hot in that black and gold armor, and it was fun to see her play the bad girl.
I liked Stamets as a character, but got bored when they used him as a tool for woke exposition.
I liked Lorca and The Empress. I liked the badass side of their nature, and I have always been very fond of Michelle Yeoh, she's a great actress.
I liked Captain Pike and how he was portrayed.
I enjoyed learning more about Section 31.
I wasn't crazy about Burnham. The actress just didn't appeal to me.
I wasn't crazy about the JJ Trek Klingons.
In summary, I liked Disco best when it was exploring the boundaries. I liked it the least when it was used as a vehicle for woke messaging and virtue signaling.
I may be less inclined to rage against anything "woke" in Star Trek, becuase I'm not trying to compare it to real world events. Its what the characters are facing in that episode. Yes Star Trek does draw some inspiration from real world events going on, but honestly I enjoy it more when I DON'T try and inject reality into it. Let the characters face these challenges in universe and just enjoy the story.
Also I STILL don't understand all this "woke" shtako. That and the so called "cancel culture". Call me old fashioned but that kinda comes across as spoiled brat attention seeking.
God I sound like an old man. I'm not that old! I only grew up with TNG!
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I'm thinking about this and drawing a blank.
It seems to be disputed-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_and_Uhura's_kiss
take your pick - I Love Lucy, Sea Hunt, Adventures in Paradise, I Spy and Movin' with Nancy all aired before star trek, and all had interracial kisses - though I Love Lucy is disputed, but the rest aren't
and that's just AMERICAN TV - british TV had some too
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Oooh Sea Hunt! With Lloyd Bridges! I used to watch that religiously.
Nicer ship design.
TOS was subtle in what it did. Disco uses a battering ram.
Pity they took those ideas and characters from an indie game designer, and got away with it.
Lower Decks is how Disco SHOULD have been ,since it WAS focusing on non captains.
Yep.
Also, this looks very nice:
And
https://www.theverge.com/2015/3/10/8185787/star-trek-original-enterprise-new-movies
ST continues, ST Phase 2, Axxanar....they all looked good, and shows it CAN look nice still....and the fans can do better than the so-called pros. https://www.theverge.com/2015/3/10/8185787/star-trek-original-enterprise-new-movies <---- heck, look what some simple photo ship can do, as well.
TOS remastered did well, as did "In a Mirror Darkly".
Modern does not have to be all gribblly and loaded with kibble, like star wars, OR looking out of place from prior stuff.
Some folks to Armada 3 patch and made a nice TOS set, including a TOS Discovery, which really looked good.
Also, THIS sounds far more interesting than what Disco gave us.
Just takes a lil hard work, and some original thinking (GASP!!!!)
Well, Hollywood's full of pedophiles and hypocrites...so I am not surprised at that.
As for games....EA is probably secretly taking over.
But this is stuff FROM hardcore-fans TO hardcore-fans. If Discovery would have been made only for the hardcore-fans and nobody else it would have flopped really hard.
For instance, the TNG-movies' low box-office-returns didn't come out of nowhere back then. They flopped really hard because general audiences were pretty much unimpressed, because so many things in those movies don't mean anything to those who didn't watch the shows or previous movies.
As for J'ula... after playing the most recent episodes I actually start to see a glimpse of an actual character there.
Why don't Dev just create a new alien enemy for them to fight. It doesn't have to involve the Romulan or the Federation. Can't Dev just create a new enemy so the Klingon faction can have something to do without involving the fake star trek. Which I hope dies soon, I'm talking about TRIBBLE and STP.
STO has been very different from Star Trek canon, and fake star trek. Just create a new enemy. Yes, the Gamma storyline was brilliant, thank you. I wish Dev stayed with that instead of fake star trek. But if corporate CBS forces you to incorporate fake star trek, fine, we get it. But that shouldn't stop new content with new enemies or bring back the Hur'q.
The Gamma storyline was brilliant. Please continue it. And don't change it and add fake star trek content.
'general audience' also watch TRIBBLE like keeping up with the kardassians, and other junk. Not my fault 'general audience' like sleeze, explosions and double d' flopping about.
The LoTR films were made by a fan for fans, and even the 'general audience' liked it. It CAN be done.
The Next Generation movies were not as popular because the writing was bad. Picard's clone? Queen Borg? Soren? The Reman? All the Next Gen movies may have been rushed. It wasn't the characters or the back story. It was the none canon content that ruined the movie.
LoTR proves that if you stay with canon, it works.
Don't believe, look at Star Wars. People came in for the Star Wars back story, they left for the crappy new content.
'general audience' also determines if an event/show/movie/game/book is commercially successful or a flop, directly influencing the studio's decision on what to do with it (as in 'continue' or 'shutdown'). So you gotta find a middleground somewhere, like it or not.
So you see that J'ula is in the episode and immediately think it's "Discovery-content". Spoiler: It's not so simple.
Well, the execs, whom I view as bean counters, who THINK they got talent and brains, just divided the fandoms, rather than uniting it.