now that I think about it does this mean I'll finally get my dahar master coat?
Since we have the jacket that Lorca wore the last time he was on ST: Discovery that drapes down towards the knees, it shouldn't be a stretch for Dahar Master coat to be made available.
I suppose it depends on how hard it would be to model but the Mirror Spec Ops coat certain showed they're capable of making coats that streatch under the belt line (the reason you don't find those in WoW is how the models are made or at least were made the last time I played WoW).
As much as I am excited about this I am also very skeptical. When you updated a lot of the Fed story lines you removed content. Please do not remove any of the KDF episodes. Update the graphics add cutscenes by all means but keep the amount of content as KDF does not have enough faction story line to remove any of it.
Forgive my skepticism but I have seen to much content being removed from STO and either not be replaced or replaced by inferior quality content which leave the game broken.
I will try and keep a open mind and see what the dev blogs about it will say.
While there was some parts I miss about the old missions there's a lot of "fat" that needed to trim, having content for its own sake isn't a good thing is the flow of the missions suffers. Only missions permanently removed (aka not "removed for rewamp") that I'd like to see return in some way is the Section 31mini-arc from the Cardassian arc, rest of the them were either merged with other missions, fat that needed to be trimmed or possibly coming back anyway.
Just looking at number of missions as sign of the amount of content will lead to missions that are there just to pad the mission count and the removal of those missions will only improve things.
now that I think about it does this mean I'll finally get my dahar master coat?
Since we have the jacket that Lorca wore the last time he was on ST: Discovery that drapes down towards the knees, it shouldn't be a stretch for Dahar Master coat to be made available.
well it was never that they couldn't, and stop me if you've heard this excuse before, they have to have someone make one basically from nothing and they just couldn't cause spare anyone... for 6 years now. though to be fair they probably forgot it was a thing.
I just meant they a lot closer being able to make the Dahar Master coat. Considering they are working on the Klingon character models, this is something that's within reach.
Along the same lines, the science/medical lab coat that Dr. Crusher wore in the TNG series wouldn't be far off either.
As much as I am excited about this I am also very skeptical. When you updated a lot of the Fed story lines you removed content. Please do not remove any of the KDF episodes. Update the graphics add cutscenes by all means but keep the amount of content as KDF does not have enough faction story line to remove any of it.
Forgive my skepticism but I have seen to much content being removed from STO and either not be replaced or replaced by inferior quality content which leave the game broken.
I will try and keep a open mind and see what the dev blogs about it will say.
While there was some parts I miss about the old missions there's a lot of "fat" that needed to trim, having content for its own sake isn't a good thing is the flow of the missions suffers. Only missions permanently removed (aka not "removed for rewamp") that I'd like to see return in some way is the Section 31mini-arc from the Cardassian arc, rest of the them were either merged with other missions, fat that needed to be trimmed or possibly coming back anyway.
Just looking at number of missions as sign of the amount of content will lead to missions that are there just to pad the mission count and the removal of those missions will only improve things.
True they may have been fat to trim but my main point was them removing the Foundry and not having any option to replace it or allowing us to just play the missions that were there offline.
When that came my reason to play STO actually dropped and I only log in to do a event and then that is it until the next one. I may come back to see what they do with Klingons but my skepticism will not waiver until I see what is going on.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"For Honor and Glory, welcome to the Year of Klingon. Over the course of 2020, and a bit of 2021, we'll be releasing a major, Klingon-focused storyline, and updating a lot of our older, beloved Klingon content."
As a returning player I'm disappointed. Year of Klingon = Year of playing something else. The character J'Ula was a terrible, one dimensional mess and I have no interest in any storyline involving that again. The Klingons were actually interesting when the empire was an antagonist to the federation. Storylines based on struggle and conflict between opposing factions can be emotionally engaging and interesting. Now that everyone is best buds the storylines are forgettable and the Klingons are especially boring. Maybe we can have the J'Ula home cooking show episode where she makes bloodwine and sings Klingon opera.
"you’ll see new Klingon character models for some of our classic characters like J’Mpok, updated skins for the classic Klingon ships like the Bird of Prey, new environments and cutscenes to refresh this old but beloved content."
The Gamma Vanguard expac is like two years old? Too bad the cardassian uniform (low detail, no badge, no rank insignia, colors do not sync between upper and lower portions, strange copperish glow) that players actually payed for was never fixed before moving on to other endeavors.
I am looking forward to the updates very much - but for the love of Kahless please drop the J'Ula Discovery Klingon storylines. Discovery Klingons suck in every capacity and I for one would just rather forget they exist.
I hope that more forehead options will become available, such as Colonel Worf's (Worf's grandfather) and the Klingon who sent the message from Klingon High Command just after the destruction of Praxis (there's plenty of versions to bring into the game from the old movies from TMP to the Undiscovered Country). https://ca.startrek.com/database_article/worf-colonel
Even the armour the Klingon wore (about 2:48-3:12 in the YouTube clip) would be a nice addition.
I hope if the AoY is expanded to include TOS Klingons (don't worry, they wouldn't be a 'villain faction', but rather would be intergrated into the timeline like the TOS Starfleet equivalants), we'll get to see Quo'nos with an intact Praxis. I can just see the AoY Klingon react to the destruction of Praxis.... "I'm gone for about a century, and look what you've done!"
Also, there's the hair that Colonel Worf and the High Command Klingon each had that would be nice to be available for male Klingons.
I am looking forward to the updates very much - but for the love of Kahless please drop the J'Ula Discovery Klingon storylines. Discovery Klingons suck in every capacity and I for one would just rather forget they exist.
^^ Eeyup. The J'Ula storyline is horrible and not engaging at all. It's more like a cartoon villain twirling their mustache. Surely you could find something more interesting to do and put this horrible story to bed quickly.
For Honor and Glory, welcome to the Year of Klingon. Over the course of 2020, and a bit of 2021, we'll be releasing a major, Klingon-focused storyline, and updating a lot of our older, beloved Klingon content. Find out more:
I am looking forward to the updates very much - but for the love of Kahless please drop the J'Ula Discovery Klingon storylines. Discovery Klingons suck in every capacity and I for one would just rather forget they exist.
Agreed. I would be very happy to see that storyline die.
I hope if the AoY is expanded to include TOS Klingons (don't worry, they wouldn't be a 'villain faction', but rather would be intergrated into the timeline like the TOS Starfleet equivalants), we'll get to see Quo'nos with an intact Praxis.
I would like to see AOY klingons as well.But at the beginning they would need to be a villian faction as the klingons were at war with starfleet at the time as that was shown on the screen. However there is a way they can be brought into the current timeline. There was a episode of TNG which had a klingon sleeper ship where Worf poses as a klingon captain and speaks to the klingons and stops them from attacking. maybe that will be a way of our klingons entering 2410 maybe we are part of another sleeper ship and Worf again this time as ambassador stops us from attacking federation worlds and then we get intregated into the timeline
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am looking forward to the updates very much - but for the love of Kahless please drop the J'Ula Discovery Klingon storylines. Discovery Klingons suck in every capacity and I for one would just rather forget they exist.
Agreed. I would be very happy to see that storyline die.
Same Discovery is a sorry excuse of a show and destroyed the klingons we love
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Looking forward to Klingon stuff. Would love a mission where we conquer a planet and drink blood wine over the dead bodies of their leaders. Seems like a thing my Klingon Captain would do.
I have no complaints with a Klingon revamp - it's honestly much needed, and I also hope we see a Romulan revamp as well.
However one of my issues with the game is the 2409-era vessels that were created on launch. They need a revamp, a fixing of the major visual issues and inconsistencies (and maybe reduce some of the over-the-top designs in some cases) that these ships have. We see these kinds of designs reflected in Star Trek Picard with the Zheng He, a utility style design which I actually appreciate (in fact, I expect this ship to be included in the near future anyway, so this would be a great time to revamp the 2409 ships).
Wow...just wow...the level of mental gymnastics you took to get here. You have said something so profoundly stupid that I just can't come up with a logical counter to it. Congrats I suppose?!?
>Its mental gymnastics to point out that stories that have nothing to do with the Federation aren't Federation focused!
Yeah... no. I know your mad the Romulans haven't gotten a warbird in a year, but come on.
A story focused on something would require that something to be present for said story to work. You can remove the Federation from pretty much every single story arc in the game, and the story would still work because the Federation has no real bearing on it. The Federation is no different then the Klingon Empire, or Romulan Republic, in most story arcs in that they are just a group trying to stop the actual focus of said arc, aka the badguys, from doing bad things, and not the actual focus of said arc.
<snip>
You know what wasn't the focus of any of them? The Federation, and from the Iconian War onward the Romulan Republic and Klingon Empire have been leading most things, making them more of the focus then the Federation for the last 5 years now.
What is meant by "Federation-centric" storytelling isn't the "what" of the story, it's the how. To wit, with just some aspects from the Iconian War:
My Orion Pirate, when holding the entirety of the Iconian's data in her hand, sure wouldn't be thinking "if I give her this ball, we're safe". She'd be thinking on how to time-bop to somewhere else, make a copy of said ball, then time-bop back to the point where she gives up the data-ball to end the war. She's already thinking about how her race of pirates will now be the "rightful" rulers of the Empire (heck, Federation, whole of Alpha Quadrant/known Galaxy, etc.). And she'd be thinking of a way to set Sela up (again) for the proverbial "throw her and by extension the Romulans" under the bus to help make sure she's getting her way (and rulership of everything...)
Why's my Lethean Mercenary worried about body counts and battle strategies outside of his unit and doing all this for no actual paycheck?
Why's my Klingon spearheading any other plan besides "throw everything into Glorious Battle to bring Honor to my house"? Unless it was made crystal clear that the only way to Honor and Glory is the "subterfuge, which is a lowly Romulan Trick", thing?
The "gripe" that all STO (especially all of STO's "Alliance era") storytelling is "Fed-Centirc", it's because no matter what race/faction the character is, you take the "Federation's Preferred Method" of saving the day, frequently without any explanation as to why your motives are "aligned" with the Federation's methods over how that given character would act.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Wow...just wow...the level of mental gymnastics you took to get here. You have said something so profoundly stupid that I just can't come up with a logical counter to it. Congrats I suppose?!?
>Its mental gymnastics to point out that stories that have nothing to do with the Federation aren't Federation focused!
Yeah... no. I know your mad the Romulans haven't gotten a warbird in a year, but come on.
A story focused on something would require that something to be present for said story to work. You can remove the Federation from pretty much every single story arc in the game, and the story would still work because the Federation has no real bearing on it. The Federation is no different then the Klingon Empire, or Romulan Republic, in most story arcs in that they are just a group trying to stop the actual focus of said arc, aka the badguys, from doing bad things, and not the actual focus of said arc.
<snip>
You know what wasn't the focus of any of them? The Federation, and from the Iconian War onward the Romulan Republic and Klingon Empire have been leading most things, making them more of the focus then the Federation for the last 5 years now.
What is meant by "Federation-centric" storytelling isn't the "what" of the story, it's the how. To wit, with just some aspects from the Iconian War:
My Orion Pirate, when holding the entirety of the Iconian's data in her hand, sure wouldn't be thinking "if I give her this ball, we're safe". She'd be thinking on how to time-bop to somewhere else, make a copy of said ball, then time-bop back to the point where she gives up the data-ball to end the war. She's already thinking about how her race of pirates will now be the "rightful" rulers of the Empire (heck, Federation, whole of Alpha Quadrant/known Galaxy, etc.). And she'd be thinking of a way to set Sela up (again) for the proverbial "throw her and by extension the Romulans" under the bus to help make sure she's getting her way (and rulership of everything...)
Why's my Lethean Mercenary worried about body counts and battle strategies outside of his unit and doing all this for no actual paycheck?
Why's my Klingon spearheading any other plan besides "throw everything into Glorious Battle to bring Honor to my house"? Unless it was made crystal clear that the only way to Honor and Glory is the "subterfuge, which is a lowly Romulan Trick", thing?
The "gripe" that all STO (especially all of STO's "Alliance era") storytelling is "Fed-Centirc", it's because no matter what race/faction the character is, you take the "Federation's Preferred Method" of saving the day, frequently without any explanation as to why your motives are "aligned" with the Federation's methods over how that given character would act.
Yeah. All my characters aren't supposed to be aligned with the Federation in any way so the entire storyline's
OOC for them. I want to roleplay my characters as I see fit.
"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
What is meant by "Federation-centric" storytelling isn't the "what" of the story, it's the how. To wit, with just some aspects from the Iconian War:
My Orion Pirate, when holding the entirety of the Iconian's data in her hand, sure wouldn't be thinking "if I give her this ball, we're safe". She'd be thinking on how to time-bop to somewhere else, make a copy of said ball, then time-bop back to the point where she gives up the data-ball to end the war. She's already thinking about how her race of pirates will now be the "rightful" rulers of the Empire (heck, Federation, whole of Alpha Quadrant/known Galaxy, etc.). And she'd be thinking of a way to set Sela up (again) for the proverbial "throw her and by extension the Romulans" under the bus to help make sure she's getting her way (and rulership of everything...)
Why's my Lethean Mercenary worried about body counts and battle strategies outside of his unit and doing all this for no actual paycheck?
Why's my Klingon spearheading any other plan besides "throw everything into Glorious Battle to bring Honor to my house"? Unless it was made crystal clear that the only way to Honor and Glory is the "subterfuge, which is a lowly Romulan Trick", thing?
The "gripe" that all STO (especially all of STO's "Alliance era") storytelling is "Fed-Centirc", it's because no matter what race/faction the character is, you take the "Federation's Preferred Method" of saving the day, frequently without any explanation as to why your motives are "aligned" with the Federation's methods over how that given character would act.
The idea that all, or even most, Orions are part of the Orion Syndicate pirate group is not only wrong, but ridiculous from any standpoint. Most Orions have nothing to do with the Syndicate, and are likewise not pirates. Not to mention, the Orion Syndicate is technically hostile to even the Klingon Empire, so if you WERE an Orion Pirate, you wouldn't be in the KDF to begin with. The same is true in regards to Letheans not all being mercenaries, and not all Klingons being "blood for the blood god!" warriors, who just rush at everything face first.
If your only argument to prove that the storyline is Federation centric is to say your non Federation toon isn't treated like a one dimensional caricature out of a Saturday morning cartoon, then you really have no argument. Especially since Star Trek has constantly shown that other species aren't as one dimensional as they first appear.
I have never understood why the people who complain about Feds the most tend to have the absolute worst ideas about all the non Fed races, and just racially stereotype them into one group. Star Trek would be awful if the universe was as flat as you seem to think it should be.
Well Syndicate is allied with KDF (even the matriarch of the sydicate is in the First City (at least in lore)) that said the problem with a criminal syndicate is that all parts don't always agree with the leadership, so you got renegade elements that are hostile to the major factions. That said your point of races not being monolithic culturally or politically still stands.
Give it up already. You know full well that people were not talking about the Mission Givers or Klingons in the Mission, but the dialog and choices presented to the Player Character regardless of Faction. Outcome the same.
And yes, I am aware that there are 14.8275 Missions where there is some dialog changes,
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I am looking forward to the updates very much - but for the love of Kahless please drop the J'Ula Discovery Klingon storylines. Discovery Klingons suck in every capacity and I for one would just rather forget they exist.
Agreed. I would be very happy to see that storyline die.
Same Discovery is a sorry excuse of a show and destroyed the klingons we love
I disagree. Star Trek Discovery is not a sorry excuse of a show and did not destroy the Klingons that we (I am not part of the we) love. Remember this is in the timeline between ENT and TOS. Therefore, the Michael Westmore ones are left intact. Can we get back to talking about the Year of Klingon instead? This is the second thread that has been derailed by this type of hatred. Disagreement is one with, downright hatred is another. Thanks.
I am looking forward to the updates very much - but for the love of Kahless please drop the J'Ula Discovery Klingon storylines. Discovery Klingons suck in every capacity and I for one would just rather forget they exist.
Agreed. I would be very happy to see that storyline die.
Same Discovery is a sorry excuse of a show and destroyed the klingons we love
I disagree. Star Trek Discovery is not a sorry excuse of a show and did not destroy the Klingons that we (I am not part of the we) love. Remember this is in the timeline between ENT and TOS. Therefore, the Michael Westmore ones are left intact. Can we get back to talking about the Year of Klingon instead? This is the second thread that has been derailed by this type of hatred. Disagreement is one with, downright hatred is another. Thanks.
My thoughts exactly. And though I despise the DSC Klingon ships (except for the S2 D-7, of course), I do like their version of the Klingons. Having new designs for Klingons doesn't magically erase the Michael Westmore Klingons any more than the Westmore Klingons magically erase the greasy TOS Klingons (as much as I might want them to). The thing to remember is that it is still science fiction, and artists have every bit as much right to reinterpret a ship, character, or species as they see fit. You don't have to like it but you should respect it.
> @nightforager said: > (Quote) > > My thoughts exactly. And though I despise the DSC Klingon ships (except for the S2 D-7, of course), I do like their version of the Klingons. Having new designs for Klingons doesn't magically erase the Michael Westmore Klingons any more than the Westmore Klingons magically erase the greasy TOS Klingons (as much as I might want them to). The thing to remember is that it is still science fiction, and artists have every bit as much right to reinterpret a ship, character, or species as they see fit. You don't have to like it but you should respect it.
I'm still going to say this about Disco's Klinks. The storyline from Disco would have worked FAR better with TOS Klinks. Why?
T'Kuvma's central theme was 'man, we're losing what it means to be Klingon. The Federation's culture is insidious, and peace with them means we lose what it means to be Klingon." I'm cool with that. "We are KLINGON" isn't a battlecry of this proud race for nothing. But nothing quite says 'losing what it means to be Klingon than this.
T'Kuvma, dressed exactly as he was in Discovery, bald as well, but with the smooth forehead of his accursed genetic abnormality, slams his fist on the table of the ancient Sarcophagus Ship. "We have even lost our appearance to these wretched humans. We have become soft, like them, denied the birthright of our glorious crests. I cannot even properly greet my mate or my rival anymore without pain and weakness. Our very skin, our very bone has been corrupted by the humans!"
My quibbles with Discovery really come from not following established lore. It's now canonical that in the 2160s, the Klingons went from the Westmore style that existed previously to the 'greasy TOS Klingons' of the 2260s. Some time in the next 10 or so years, the Klingons get their problem sorted out and we go back to the glorious Klingons we have known and loved since TMP. Disco could have sorted that out. Shown that the base problem was really the Klingons anger over a century of looking like weak humans. Add in anger that they were duped into doing this to themselves because of a race of human super-warriors that never existed in great numbers, and I could see frustration boiling over to Discovery's Klingons. You get the iconic D7 out of it, and you eventually get the iconic Klingon back. That and keeping the cloak on just the Sarcophagus, keeping intact the fact Klingons didn't use cloaks in TOS and leaving open a Klingon/Romulan treaty to trade that tech (explaining how Romulans started using D7s), and you're golden.
Comments
I suppose it depends on how hard it would be to model but the Mirror Spec Ops coat certain showed they're capable of making coats that streatch under the belt line (the reason you don't find those in WoW is how the models are made or at least were made the last time I played WoW).
While there was some parts I miss about the old missions there's a lot of "fat" that needed to trim, having content for its own sake isn't a good thing is the flow of the missions suffers. Only missions permanently removed (aka not "removed for rewamp") that I'd like to see return in some way is the Section 31mini-arc from the Cardassian arc, rest of the them were either merged with other missions, fat that needed to be trimmed or possibly coming back anyway.
Just looking at number of missions as sign of the amount of content will lead to missions that are there just to pad the mission count and the removal of those missions will only improve things.
I just meant they a lot closer being able to make the Dahar Master coat. Considering they are working on the Klingon character models, this is something that's within reach.
Along the same lines, the science/medical lab coat that Dr. Crusher wore in the TNG series wouldn't be far off either.
True they may have been fat to trim but my main point was them removing the Foundry and not having any option to replace it or allowing us to just play the missions that were there offline.
When that came my reason to play STO actually dropped and I only log in to do a event and then that is it until the next one. I may come back to see what they do with Klingons but my skepticism will not waiver until I see what is going on.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm happy for Klingon players, but I'm not interested in Klingon content. I'll see everyone in mid-2021 I guess, stay safe!
As a returning player I'm disappointed. Year of Klingon = Year of playing something else. The character J'Ula was a terrible, one dimensional mess and I have no interest in any storyline involving that again. The Klingons were actually interesting when the empire was an antagonist to the federation. Storylines based on struggle and conflict between opposing factions can be emotionally engaging and interesting. Now that everyone is best buds the storylines are forgettable and the Klingons are especially boring. Maybe we can have the J'Ula home cooking show episode where she makes bloodwine and sings Klingon opera.
"you’ll see new Klingon character models for some of our classic characters like J’Mpok, updated skins for the classic Klingon ships like the Bird of Prey, new environments and cutscenes to refresh this old but beloved content."
The Gamma Vanguard expac is like two years old? Too bad the cardassian uniform (low detail, no badge, no rank insignia, colors do not sync between upper and lower portions, strange copperish glow) that players actually payed for was never fixed before moving on to other endeavors.
https://ca.startrek.com/database_article/worf-colonel
Even the armour the Klingon wore (about 2:48-3:12 in the YouTube clip) would be a nice addition.
I hope if the AoY is expanded to include TOS Klingons (don't worry, they wouldn't be a 'villain faction', but rather would be intergrated into the timeline like the TOS Starfleet equivalants), we'll get to see Quo'nos with an intact Praxis. I can just see the AoY Klingon react to the destruction of Praxis.... "I'm gone for about a century, and look what you've done!"
Also, there's the hair that Colonel Worf and the High Command Klingon each had that would be nice to be available for male Klingons.
^^ Eeyup. The J'Ula storyline is horrible and not engaging at all. It's more like a cartoon villain twirling their mustache. Surely you could find something more interesting to do and put this horrible story to bed quickly.
Even though I'm not one of those Klingon obsessers, I glad this is happening. Qapla'!
Agreed. I would be very happy to see that storyline die.
I would like to see AOY klingons as well.But at the beginning they would need to be a villian faction as the klingons were at war with starfleet at the time as that was shown on the screen. However there is a way they can be brought into the current timeline. There was a episode of TNG which had a klingon sleeper ship where Worf poses as a klingon captain and speaks to the klingons and stops them from attacking. maybe that will be a way of our klingons entering 2410 maybe we are part of another sleeper ship and Worf again this time as ambassador stops us from attacking federation worlds and then we get intregated into the timeline
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Same Discovery is a sorry excuse of a show and destroyed the klingons we love
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
However one of my issues with the game is the 2409-era vessels that were created on launch. They need a revamp, a fixing of the major visual issues and inconsistencies (and maybe reduce some of the over-the-top designs in some cases) that these ships have. We see these kinds of designs reflected in Star Trek Picard with the Zheng He, a utility style design which I actually appreciate (in fact, I expect this ship to be included in the near future anyway, so this would be a great time to revamp the 2409 ships).
What is meant by "Federation-centric" storytelling isn't the "what" of the story, it's the how. To wit, with just some aspects from the Iconian War:
My Orion Pirate, when holding the entirety of the Iconian's data in her hand, sure wouldn't be thinking "if I give her this ball, we're safe". She'd be thinking on how to time-bop to somewhere else, make a copy of said ball, then time-bop back to the point where she gives up the data-ball to end the war. She's already thinking about how her race of pirates will now be the "rightful" rulers of the Empire (heck, Federation, whole of Alpha Quadrant/known Galaxy, etc.). And she'd be thinking of a way to set Sela up (again) for the proverbial "throw her and by extension the Romulans" under the bus to help make sure she's getting her way (and rulership of everything...)
Why's my Lethean Mercenary worried about body counts and battle strategies outside of his unit and doing all this for no actual paycheck?
Why's my Klingon spearheading any other plan besides "throw everything into Glorious Battle to bring Honor to my house"? Unless it was made crystal clear that the only way to Honor and Glory is the "subterfuge, which is a lowly Romulan Trick", thing?
The "gripe" that all STO (especially all of STO's "Alliance era") storytelling is "Fed-Centirc", it's because no matter what race/faction the character is, you take the "Federation's Preferred Method" of saving the day, frequently without any explanation as to why your motives are "aligned" with the Federation's methods over how that given character would act.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Yeah. All my characters aren't supposed to be aligned with the Federation in any way so the entire storyline's
OOC for them. I want to roleplay my characters as I see fit.
"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
And yes, I am aware that there are 14.8275 Missions where there is some dialog changes,
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I disagree. Star Trek Discovery is not a sorry excuse of a show and did not destroy the Klingons that we (I am not part of the we) love. Remember this is in the timeline between ENT and TOS. Therefore, the Michael Westmore ones are left intact. Can we get back to talking about the Year of Klingon instead? This is the second thread that has been derailed by this type of hatred. Disagreement is one with, downright hatred is another. Thanks.
My thoughts exactly. And though I despise the DSC Klingon ships (except for the S2 D-7, of course), I do like their version of the Klingons. Having new designs for Klingons doesn't magically erase the Michael Westmore Klingons any more than the Westmore Klingons magically erase the greasy TOS Klingons (as much as I might want them to). The thing to remember is that it is still science fiction, and artists have every bit as much right to reinterpret a ship, character, or species as they see fit. You don't have to like it but you should respect it.
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> My thoughts exactly. And though I despise the DSC Klingon ships (except for the S2 D-7, of course), I do like their version of the Klingons. Having new designs for Klingons doesn't magically erase the Michael Westmore Klingons any more than the Westmore Klingons magically erase the greasy TOS Klingons (as much as I might want them to). The thing to remember is that it is still science fiction, and artists have every bit as much right to reinterpret a ship, character, or species as they see fit. You don't have to like it but you should respect it.
“Klingons are a diverse a race as any”
T'Kuvma's central theme was 'man, we're losing what it means to be Klingon. The Federation's culture is insidious, and peace with them means we lose what it means to be Klingon." I'm cool with that. "We are KLINGON" isn't a battlecry of this proud race for nothing. But nothing quite says 'losing what it means to be Klingon than this.
T'Kuvma, dressed exactly as he was in Discovery, bald as well, but with the smooth forehead of his accursed genetic abnormality, slams his fist on the table of the ancient Sarcophagus Ship. "We have even lost our appearance to these wretched humans. We have become soft, like them, denied the birthright of our glorious crests. I cannot even properly greet my mate or my rival anymore without pain and weakness. Our very skin, our very bone has been corrupted by the humans!"
My quibbles with Discovery really come from not following established lore. It's now canonical that in the 2160s, the Klingons went from the Westmore style that existed previously to the 'greasy TOS Klingons' of the 2260s. Some time in the next 10 or so years, the Klingons get their problem sorted out and we go back to the glorious Klingons we have known and loved since TMP. Disco could have sorted that out. Shown that the base problem was really the Klingons anger over a century of looking like weak humans. Add in anger that they were duped into doing this to themselves because of a race of human super-warriors that never existed in great numbers, and I could see frustration boiling over to Discovery's Klingons. You get the iconic D7 out of it, and you eventually get the iconic Klingon back. That and keeping the cloak on just the Sarcophagus, keeping intact the fact Klingons didn't use cloaks in TOS and leaving open a Klingon/Romulan treaty to trade that tech (explaining how Romulans started using D7s), and you're golden.
That's hot
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXc0Ll8U4AAWPnU?format=jpg&name=large