Here's the way it was explained to me after some clarification. The prices are intended to be an in-universe pun on Mudd being a con man. At some point the current sale price will revert to what folks see as the "regular price" however it is intended to be an extremely rare thing for those items to actually be full price and regular rotating sales will be applied to the Mudd store. As it sits right now there is a 75% discount. In the future this may be only a 65% discount, or could be even higher at an 85% discount. So your best bet if/when it hits the "regular price" is to ignore the item as though it doesn't exist until it's on sale at a level you're comfortable paying. If you want to pay the full price then that's your choice, but it's not intended for that to happen.
Personally I will say I'm not fond of that kind of system myself and think it's more trouble than needs to be, but it is what it is for the time being. With that said, folks are allowed to like it or dislike it and free to voice their opinions as such in the positive or negative. Flaming/trolling however does not help and will get folks nowhere. Myself and cohorts are going to keep in contact with the Cryptic crew and if something changes, believe me we will let you guys know.
The problem will be though. What if some players, not knowing how the Mudd system works decides to purchase during that brief period of no sales.
Intended or not, this is a disaster waiting to happen. Even just the visuals of the items at full price is an extremely bad idea.
Thank you for your hard work Dark and Badmoon regarding this.
However, i still think the CEO needs to appear on the next livestream. Regardless this entire thing is and will continue to be a cluster munch.
My fear and essentially my knowledge knows this thing will drag down the 10th anniversary celebrations. We dont need this dead weight tying down what ever celebrations Cryptic has planned.
I bought the account-wide EMH. For 1,000 ZEN, that isn't bad. If it was 2,000 or even 4,000 ZEN like it originally was, I would have passed on it. It's a niche BO with very little to make it stand out outside of it loosely resembling Robert Picardo's character from Voyager.
Having seen the Mudd prices in game, I'm less interested in that stuff now. Even at -75% some of that is still overpriced. I would not put it past them to have -85% or -90% sales also, though.
I'm still waiting to see how they work this thing, because it is obviously mixing imaginary, fictional market dynamics with real world purchases. Day 1 gives us very little data to really form an opinion on.
I bought the account-wide EMH. For 1,000 ZEN, that isn't bad. If it was 2,000 or even 4,000 ZEN like it originally was, I would have passed on it. It's a niche BO with very little to make it stand out outside of it loosely resembling Robert Picardo's character from Voyager.
Err..you do realise unless you have 20-odd characters you'd have been better off buying it from the phoenix box per character? Rare tokens are not hard to get (if the boff was an epic token purchase, then there would be value in the account unlock) drop wise - going by current dilex prices, you'd be able to buy 120 or so phoenix boxes
I'm a newer player and don't think I'm the target audience of this game, there's a reason I don't play Star Citizen and it's the price of stuff.
I thought it was expensive to pay $30 for an end game ship and then still have to pay for a slot to use it, but the "Mudd" prices are out of my budget even should I win the Megamillions lottery or have Bill Gates adopt me. Part of the fun was dreaming about getting something, or saving up over time for it, this rather precludes such a fancy for me anyway. I really wanted a TOS Spock bridge officer, oh well.
If you try to buy at the overinflated price, simply have a Ferengi comlink in and offer it at its proper price, undercutting Mudd as Ferengis oft do when theres a profit to be made (with optional infuriated Mudd comlink for added flavour - heck, you could even make a jab at the ec exchange)
Jokes still there but nobody gets the mudd covered end of the stick
Simple, easy, funny and wouldn't cause this level of furore
As to those who bought the overinflated stock... I'd refund them as if it was a joke, it should have had a safety net for those who fell for it otherwise its not a joke in any way shape or form - its akin to slapping someone hard over the head then stating 'it was just a joke' - it still hurts and while others might see it as funny, said slapped would not
That is, of course assuming it was a 'joke' as stated and not just a quick scramble to save face in the backlash to come as my gut reaction feels like it is, STO seeming to be heading in the direction of EA esque monetisation...
Or they could have done a Trek-Short intro video into who Mudd is before people could access the Market itself.......then maybe people would have got it
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Really, since Mudd is a conman (and a not very good one) the prices should be incredibly low, but the items should be fake - like 10 Zen for the holo-Leeta, but when you open the box it's actually a cardboard Leeta standee. That sort of thing.
I'd like to know the reasoning behind why the FE and other previously earnable ingame items weren't either put into phoenix or indeed brought back during an FE rerun. Only explanation I can think of is that they needed to have stuff that might be perceived as having moderate value but due to the focus on pushing ships = content there simply wasn't a pool of ideas or items to draw from.
Personally, I'm putting my zen store boycott back into effect for all accounts on both PC and PS4 and cleared my dil exchanges as well. If they want to play silly buggers with the economy of the game then I'll simply not participate.
They've made it really quite easy to help folk lose interest in the game thanks to the back to back rerunning of events that seems to be the direction the games heading in. Not a good move in the lead up to the rather miraculous 10th anniversary.
The ship doesn't show in the list for Fedroms. Does that mean it's not flyable by Fedroms at all, or do I just have to buy it with a native Fed first?
EDIT: OK, it shows up in the "On Sale" tab (but not the Mudd tab), where it says "You do not meet the requirements for this item." So I guess I can't buy it then.
If this was an attempt at a joke, it was not a very good one at all, the truth is the mere fact they have attempted to duplicate a Con Man joke was not cool at all, nor implemented well.
Things like this is best left as an April fool's joke. So the suppose sale price is the actual price -_-
The ship doesn't show in the list for Fedroms. Does that mean it's not flyable by Fedroms at all, or do I just have to buy it with a native Fed first?
EDIT: OK, it shows up in the "On Sale" tab (but not the Mudd tab), where it says "You do not meet the requirements for this item." So I guess I can't buy it then.
Correct, Fed Rom and Fed Jem'Hadar can't use it according to a thread on reddit.
As someone who's been sitting on a handful of WizKids promo ships with codes for the Vizier, the existence of this market truly pisses me off.
You sat to long. ^^
It's only been about two and a half years since I got them, I was prepared to wait a lot longer since the ship was supposed to be exclusive to the wizkids promotion. Clearly Cryptic can't be trusted to keep their word about anything.
I bought the account-wide EMH. For 1,000 ZEN, that isn't bad. If it was 2,000 or even 4,000 ZEN like it originally was, I would have passed on it. It's a niche BO with very little to make it stand out outside of it loosely resembling Robert Picardo's character from Voyager.
Err..you do realise unless you have 20-odd characters you'd have been better off buying it from the phoenix box per character? Rare tokens are not hard to get (if the boff was an epic token purchase, then there would be value in the account unlock) drop wise - going by current dilex prices, you'd be able to buy 120 or so phoenix boxes
I have about a dozen characters and have had my lifetime sub since the head start. I paid for it with my stipend, so I feel like I got it the way i feel would have been most beneficial. Ultimately, it cost me nothing. :P
The ship doesn't show in the list for Fedroms. Does that mean it's not flyable by Fedroms at all, or do I just have to buy it with a native Fed first?
EDIT: OK, it shows up in the "On Sale" tab (but not the Mudd tab), where it says "You do not meet the requirements for this item." So I guess I can't buy it then.
Correct, Fed Rom and Fed Jem'Hadar can't use it according to a thread on reddit.
The ship doesn't show in the list for Fedroms. Does that mean it's not flyable by Fedroms at all, or do I just have to buy it with a native Fed first?
EDIT: OK, it shows up in the "On Sale" tab (but not the Mudd tab), where it says "You do not meet the requirements for this item." So I guess I can't buy it then.
Correct, Fed Rom and Fed Jem'Hadar can't use it according to a thread on reddit.
Well, saved my Zen I suppose.
Don't worry, I'm sure that Mudd will be happy to sell you an unlock for your Romulan for a low low price of 80,000 Zen.
It's only been about two and a half years since I got them, I was prepared to wait a lot longer since the ship was supposed to be exclusive to the wizkids promotion. Clearly Cryptic can't be trusted to keep their word about anything.
Things change from time to time, this is nothing new with mmos. I also have the Vizier and i'm glad to see people finally have a chance at it. Even if I might not use the battle cloak personally I'm glad people who do want to use it will have a chance. What was guaranteed was that specific run of them would be limited to the physical ship. Putting a set bonus behind a wall that only a handful of people will ever be able to get is uncool and the true insult to players as it gives them false hope they can complete the set until they find out otherwise. Even then they tell you in virtually all blogs things are subject to change.
The problem will be though. What if some players, not knowing how the Mudd system works decides to purchase during that brief period of no sales.
Intended or not, this is a disaster waiting to happen. Even just the visuals of the items at full price is an extremely bad idea.
Thank you for your hard work Dark and Badmoon regarding this.
However, i still think the CEO needs to appear on the next livestream. Regardless this entire thing is and will continue to be a cluster munch.
My fear and essentially my knowledge knows this thing will drag down the 10th anniversary celebrations. We dont need this dead weight tying down what ever celebrations Cryptic has planned.
That is the last thing this community needs.
Believe me I raised that concern myself to them as that was the first thing I thought of. I've raised the concern as well that all this seems to be alot more trouble than its worth. They're watching and keeping an eye on the situation that I do know. If/when we are given more information we can reveal we will do so for you guys.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
You know, after reading some of the posts in this thread I'm kind of starting to agree with the folks who feel they got scammed. No idea on legality or anything, but sentiment has me siding with them and not Cryptic. Just because something may be unethical, doesn't make it illegal. It also doesn't make it right.
Not everyone who plays this game is well versed in the lore. If they never watched TOS, they may not even know who Mudd is. And the Discovery version of him, while he is portrayed as a conman, liar, cheat and scoundrel, you don't get the sense that he is a business man, at least I didn't. Shoot, some players aren't even fans of Star Trek, some are simply here because it's space sci-fi. Granted, it's likely a very tiny segment of the population but still I have met at least one of them. Whether they still play or not...?
As much as it pains me to say it, I think when it comes to items on the Zen store, you have to hit the lowest common denominator to avoid issues like this seems to have caused. Some see the "Limited Time" wording and freak out, worrying they are going to miss getting something rare. What is it the kids call it these days, FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out? It's something marketing has done for years to pressure consumers into buying things. And I don't see it changing.
I thought for sure those prices were a joke, a bit of fun. Turns out the devs seem to be completely tone deaf to what the community wants. Just because a handful of people claim they'd pay $200 or more for a T6 Connie if one were ever offered on the Zen Store doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase would want that. I hope and pray that when these current items go off sale, that means their "inventory" was depleted and there are actually none to buy, preventing players from buying at that "regular" price.
Now that I see exactly what they are intending this to be, there is going to have to be a truly massive sale happen before I'd buy anything from the Mudd Market. I'm not going to even attempt the math this early in the morning on the percentages, but I personally wouldn't pay more than 500 Zen for the former FE items pack, the Voth Dino or the Holo Leeta/EMH packs. No more than 300 Zen for the Crystalline weapon pack or the Beacon of Kahless. They can throw those Ultimate upgrades in a black hole for all I care as adding them to a bundle to attempt to make it seem like a better deal doesn't work for me. Maybe if there were 10 of them and the price remained the same. And the ship? 3k zen, tops. The TOS Holo BOffs, while 2.5k zen is still slightly overpriced for my tastes, it's not so bad considering there are 7 of them.
I'm not sure what the mindset is anymore when it comes to products and pricing. And I'm not just talking in this game or video games in general, I mean everything. So many companies are pricing themselves out of a lot of consumers range that they are losing sales. So to make up for it, they raise the prices? Used to be they'd lower prices to entice consumers back. I know I'm getting old and I'm likely just remembering the "back in my day" sentiments,but even if I won the lotto, there are products out there I'm interested in, but their price is just too much for what it is. That even though I could afford them, I'd still not get them because of their over priced nature.
It'll be interesting to see where the game goes from here. This won't kill it, there have been other missteps that seemed far worse from my perspective and it's still here. But the community, that's what I worry about. Here's hoping this all sorts itself out and everyone ends up content.
Hello. My name is iamynaught and I am an altaholic.
So, I'm just enjoying reading all of this. Some people are clearly going "overboard" in their reaction. It's not the not the end of the world, although it is a really dumb move. On the other hand, some people are doing the opposite of the ones previously mentioned. Instead of going "overboard" they are trying so hard to defend and downplay this like it doesn't matter. Like I said, it's not the end of the world. But it is a really dumb move, and people that can't even admit that are just as irrational as the people who think the sky is falling.
The ship doesn't show in the list for Fedroms. Does that mean it's not flyable by Fedroms at all, or do I just have to buy it with a native Fed first?
EDIT: OK, it shows up in the "On Sale" tab (but not the Mudd tab), where it says "You do not meet the requirements for this item." So I guess I can't buy it then.
Correct, Fed Rom and Fed Jem'Hadar can't use it according to a thread on reddit.
Well, saved my Zen I suppose.
Don't worry, I'm sure that Mudd will be happy to sell you an unlock for your Romulan for a low low price of 80,000 Zen.
LMAO too funny
I have been reading about this mess on reddit too and you are the first post to make me laugh...
but the joke is on Cryptic as this will cost them much more in the end
As someone who's been sitting on a handful of WizKids promo ships with codes for the Vizier, the existence of this market truly pisses me off.
Why have you been sitting on ships with codes? Are you trying to construct a new captain's chair out of them? Game of Thrones but with starships instead of swords?
Or are you just upset because Cryptic started overcharging people for the Viziers before you could?
I've bought the only Mudd item I'm interested in, the Command Assault Cruiser, because prior to now the only way of obtaining it was to buy the WizKid model.
Is there any info on the holo-BOFFs such as their traits and abilities? Unlike the Reman and Breen ones (my earlier toons already gained these via the missions and replays), the tab doesn't say what these guys can do.
I wouldn't call the regularly-changing sale price a "dumb move." It's thematically appropriate for the character. Now, buying something at the full price would be a dumb move, but that's on the buyer.
And I don't think the pricing is necessarily dumb, either. Judging by the way the dilex capped out, people are buying the stuff. I'm sure Cryptic will have the bean counters analyzing the best price points for maximum profits based on sales data. If "75% off" isn't enough sales, they can adjust it. And if you can't/won't pay however much an item is, there is always the option to not buy it.
I myself would've bought the Vizier, 500z more than stock C-Store ships or not, but since they're refusing to sell it to a romulan...
So, I'm just enjoying reading all of this. Some people are clearly going "overboard" in their reaction. It's not the not the end of the world, although it is a really dumb move. On the other hand, some people are doing the opposite of the ones previously mentioned. Instead of going "overboard" they are trying so hard to defend and downplay this like it doesn't matter. Like I said, it's not the end of the world. But it is a really dumb move, and people that can't even admit that are just as irrational as the people who think the sky is falling.
What also needs to be mentioned is, that no one is forcing anyone to buy anything. If the price isn't to your liking, you don't need to buy it. None of these items of P2W and essentially are just limited fluff.
I know this is going to be unpopular, but I think this is a fair compromise. The Zen store should have been always index against inflation. What this means is that every year the prices would go up for newer content. Between years of 2009 and 2019 the US has gone up 20% this would mean that a ship costing 3000 Zen should be costing 3600 Zen or 600 Zen more than 10yrs ago. This would help Cryptic offset costs, and at the same time, the cost per ship would only go up <2% per year.
After the holiday season, say February 1st all the Zen store prices could be rebased. This slow increase over time would be much more palatable then the look now everything is double or tripled now.
Comments
The problem will be though. What if some players, not knowing how the Mudd system works decides to purchase during that brief period of no sales.
Intended or not, this is a disaster waiting to happen. Even just the visuals of the items at full price is an extremely bad idea.
Thank you for your hard work Dark and Badmoon regarding this.
However, i still think the CEO needs to appear on the next livestream. Regardless this entire thing is and will continue to be a cluster munch.
My fear and essentially my knowledge knows this thing will drag down the 10th anniversary celebrations. We dont need this dead weight tying down what ever celebrations Cryptic has planned.
That is the last thing this community needs.
I'm still waiting to see how they work this thing, because it is obviously mixing imaginary, fictional market dynamics with real world purchases. Day 1 gives us very little data to really form an opinion on.
Err..you do realise unless you have 20-odd characters you'd have been better off buying it from the phoenix box per character? Rare tokens are not hard to get (if the boff was an epic token purchase, then there would be value in the account unlock) drop wise - going by current dilex prices, you'd be able to buy 120 or so phoenix boxes
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I thought it was expensive to pay $30 for an end game ship and then still have to pay for a slot to use it, but the "Mudd" prices are out of my budget even should I win the Megamillions lottery or have Bill Gates adopt me. Part of the fun was dreaming about getting something, or saving up over time for it, this rather precludes such a fancy for me anyway. I really wanted a TOS Spock bridge officer, oh well.
Or they could have done a Trek-Short intro video into who Mudd is before people could access the Market itself.......then maybe people would have got it
Personally, I'm putting my zen store boycott back into effect for all accounts on both PC and PS4 and cleared my dil exchanges as well. If they want to play silly buggers with the economy of the game then I'll simply not participate.
They've made it really quite easy to help folk lose interest in the game thanks to the back to back rerunning of events that seems to be the direction the games heading in. Not a good move in the lead up to the rather miraculous 10th anniversary.
EDIT: OK, it shows up in the "On Sale" tab (but not the Mudd tab), where it says "You do not meet the requirements for this item." So I guess I can't buy it then.
Things like this is best left as an April fool's joke. So the suppose sale price is the actual price -_-
Correct, Fed Rom and Fed Jem'Hadar can't use it according to a thread on reddit.
You sat to long. ^^
It's only been about two and a half years since I got them, I was prepared to wait a lot longer since the ship was supposed to be exclusive to the wizkids promotion. Clearly Cryptic can't be trusted to keep their word about anything.
I have about a dozen characters and have had my lifetime sub since the head start. I paid for it with my stipend, so I feel like I got it the way i feel would have been most beneficial. Ultimately, it cost me nothing. :P
Well, saved my Zen I suppose.
Don't worry, I'm sure that Mudd will be happy to sell you an unlock for your Romulan for a low low price of 80,000 Zen.
Things change from time to time, this is nothing new with mmos. I also have the Vizier and i'm glad to see people finally have a chance at it. Even if I might not use the battle cloak personally I'm glad people who do want to use it will have a chance. What was guaranteed was that specific run of them would be limited to the physical ship. Putting a set bonus behind a wall that only a handful of people will ever be able to get is uncool and the true insult to players as it gives them false hope they can complete the set until they find out otherwise. Even then they tell you in virtually all blogs things are subject to change.
Believe me I raised that concern myself to them as that was the first thing I thought of. I've raised the concern as well that all this seems to be alot more trouble than its worth. They're watching and keeping an eye on the situation that I do know. If/when we are given more information we can reveal we will do so for you guys.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Not everyone who plays this game is well versed in the lore. If they never watched TOS, they may not even know who Mudd is. And the Discovery version of him, while he is portrayed as a conman, liar, cheat and scoundrel, you don't get the sense that he is a business man, at least I didn't. Shoot, some players aren't even fans of Star Trek, some are simply here because it's space sci-fi. Granted, it's likely a very tiny segment of the population but still I have met at least one of them. Whether they still play or not...?
As much as it pains me to say it, I think when it comes to items on the Zen store, you have to hit the lowest common denominator to avoid issues like this seems to have caused. Some see the "Limited Time" wording and freak out, worrying they are going to miss getting something rare. What is it the kids call it these days, FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out? It's something marketing has done for years to pressure consumers into buying things. And I don't see it changing.
And now this. Wow.
I thought for sure those prices were a joke, a bit of fun. Turns out the devs seem to be completely tone deaf to what the community wants. Just because a handful of people claim they'd pay $200 or more for a T6 Connie if one were ever offered on the Zen Store doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase would want that. I hope and pray that when these current items go off sale, that means their "inventory" was depleted and there are actually none to buy, preventing players from buying at that "regular" price.
Now that I see exactly what they are intending this to be, there is going to have to be a truly massive sale happen before I'd buy anything from the Mudd Market. I'm not going to even attempt the math this early in the morning on the percentages, but I personally wouldn't pay more than 500 Zen for the former FE items pack, the Voth Dino or the Holo Leeta/EMH packs. No more than 300 Zen for the Crystalline weapon pack or the Beacon of Kahless. They can throw those Ultimate upgrades in a black hole for all I care as adding them to a bundle to attempt to make it seem like a better deal doesn't work for me. Maybe if there were 10 of them and the price remained the same. And the ship? 3k zen, tops. The TOS Holo BOffs, while 2.5k zen is still slightly overpriced for my tastes, it's not so bad considering there are 7 of them.
I'm not sure what the mindset is anymore when it comes to products and pricing. And I'm not just talking in this game or video games in general, I mean everything. So many companies are pricing themselves out of a lot of consumers range that they are losing sales. So to make up for it, they raise the prices? Used to be they'd lower prices to entice consumers back. I know I'm getting old and I'm likely just remembering the "back in my day" sentiments,but even if I won the lotto, there are products out there I'm interested in, but their price is just too much for what it is. That even though I could afford them, I'd still not get them because of their over priced nature.
It'll be interesting to see where the game goes from here. This won't kill it, there have been other missteps that seemed far worse from my perspective and it's still here. But the community, that's what I worry about. Here's hoping this all sorts itself out and everyone ends up content.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
LMAO too funny
I have been reading about this mess on reddit too and you are the first post to make me laugh...
but the joke is on Cryptic as this will cost them much more in the end
Or are you just upset because Cryptic started overcharging people for the Viziers before you could?
Is there any info on the holo-BOFFs such as their traits and abilities? Unlike the Reman and Breen ones (my earlier toons already gained these via the missions and replays), the tab doesn't say what these guys can do.
And I don't think the pricing is necessarily dumb, either. Judging by the way the dilex capped out, people are buying the stuff. I'm sure Cryptic will have the bean counters analyzing the best price points for maximum profits based on sales data. If "75% off" isn't enough sales, they can adjust it. And if you can't/won't pay however much an item is, there is always the option to not buy it.
I myself would've bought the Vizier, 500z more than stock C-Store ships or not, but since they're refusing to sell it to a romulan...
What also needs to be mentioned is, that no one is forcing anyone to buy anything. If the price isn't to your liking, you don't need to buy it. None of these items of P2W and essentially are just limited fluff.
After the holiday season, say February 1st all the Zen store prices could be rebased. This slow increase over time would be much more palatable then the look now everything is double or tripled now.
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