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Weapon balancing...
dark4blood
Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
I understand there is a need for more powerful weapons as the game continues...but some weapons have almost no point at all...hence Romulan plasma. The 2.5% chance to do -10 to all damage is almost indistinguishable to Plasma weapons with a Pen proc and significantly less useful. Similar weapons like Romulan plasma should have the extra mod added to it instead of it being short one mod for the current proc compared to regular plasma weapons. This way the only weapons that are clearly weaker than ANY other plasma weapons is regular plasma. There are plenty of other weapons that need this upgrade but this is one of the more obvious one and maybe Cryptic needs to do some balancing before stacking even more weapons into another lockbox.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Honestly, Romulan Plasma should be looked at, it either needs to be buffed or removed. As it stands right now, it's a bit of a trap for newer players playing Romulans. 'Romulan Plasma' sounds like the weapons that Romulans should be using.. but they have no real way of knowing that it's the worst performing weapon you can get. You honestly can't make a worse choice then Romulan Plasma.
I agree with everything but this.
Yes, I admit.. of all the damage types, Plasma is the worst. Can't argue with you there, but honestly.. it's not really noticably worse then several other types. One of my best DPS'ers is a Romulan using Fleet Plasma Cannons.. yes, it's on a Scimitar, but she chews through everything. The biggest issue with Plasma is that outside of the Lukari Set there is really nothing that gives a huge buff to Plasma. The Plasma Wave console isn't bad for it's passive, but it's 'clicky' is awful.
There are two keys to Plasma Builds.
1. Do not use Romulan Plamsa.. ever.
2. Offset the lack of Cat1 boosts with consoles that boost Critical Hit, Critical Damage, Firing Cycle, and Energy Weapon Damage overall.
The thing that keeps Plasma in the game is that there are enough consoles from option 2 to make it so you can still build a pretty hefty damage dealer using Plasma.
Overall, I wouldn't say 'never use plamsa,' but I would say 'be careful how you build using Plasma.' It's not like Phaser where everything you find laying around buffs it through the roof.
As for the topic of variant damage type balance.. honestly.. don't worry about it, you'll sleep better at night. There are certainly worse variants to be had than Romulan Plasma in the game(like phased polaron).
Romulan plasma trades an extra mod for the extra potential proc. A weapon proc alone should not be making or breaking your build. I would dare say if it is then you have much larger problems than just the proc on a weapon. Part of what hurts weapon procs is now they can only proc once per cycle vs the potential to proc every shot like before season 13. Any energy type can deal great damage and well over 150k dps. What matters is how you set it up and how you fly it. If someone is telling you one energy type is worthless or there is a set in stone "best" then they're telling you wrong. Unless you're looking to go to uber stupid high end levels of damage, then your energy type will not matter. Even then it only matters because of the set bonuses and items supporting each energy type.
Whoever told you this is just flat out wrong. Like I said above what matters is what you load a ship with, even more so how you fly it. The guys in my crew that run plasma have each topped over 100k with it. The idea that plasma can't do damage is simply a myth. Simply because one person doesn't like it or because one person can't deal damage with it doesn't mean someone else can't.
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This is the one reason why I rarely use my Na'kuhl ship. I wish there was a way to turn off the engine sound.
There are a couple of ways to take care of the engine sound. One is to mute your sounds, the other is to play music to override the engine sound.
To demonstrate how bad plasma is even on the weapons with a 100% proc chance it’s still underperforms.
Take a plasma mine or torpedo then add the hit + DoT damage together over 15 seconds and you get less damage then single photon or Quantum mine/torpedo will do over 1 second. This then gets worse if you add a trait so the Photon/Quantum not only hit harder in 1 second but do more DoT over 15seconds.
Plasma suffers from two problems. Most targets don’t last enough for the DoT to build up to decent damage. The other is even if the target stays alive the DoT has scaled badly over the years and other weapons tend to harder in 1 hit then the plasma does in 1 hit + DoT added together.
From what I can see outside of Exotic at least in torps and mines plasma has lost its weapon roll/advantages and 100% of the time underperforms. To me it looks like the same applies to energy weapons the DoT part has scaled badly in recent years.
It's definitely lacking in support compared to the other energy types that I do agree with. You should give the Altamid Plasma lobi set a go. My crew and myself have been seeing consistently 100k or higher using a plasma overload build with that set and the tools we have now. I don't see it breaking 102834029837420437 zillion damage or whatever the current record is, but it's definitely worth the investment. Highest parse I know of out of my crew has been 177k I believe it was with him going for broke.
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That's a fair statement.
I think we all understand what is being said, there is no need to get snarky. Especially since your initial post was the most poorly worded in the thread.
No need to get snippy with people that are trying to agree with you.
Going to address both of these quotes at once. Like I said prior, I will grant that plasma simply does not have as much support as the other energy types do. With that said there's a few flaws in the logic you're using here.
First and foremost no proc based weapon will proc 100% of the time so that's bad analogy to use. Secondly there is also a HUGE difference between a mines, torpedoes, and energy weapons. A plasma torpedo is not the same thing as a plasma energy weapon, nor is a mine. Mines in general are some of the hardest to use effectively and underappreciated weapons in game. So that part applies to mines in general and isn't strictly a plasma issue. In regards to plasma torps, generally a plasma torp is kinetic based with the secondary effect itself being the plasma burn. So they're basically fancy kinetic weaponry that don't fit the bill of general plasma weapons in the way you're suggesting. Procs in general have also been greatly diminished in their frequency and effectiveness since season 13. Since season 13 it's been only once per cycle instead of every shot, otherwise in terms of just pure damage, quite a few folks would still be using Coalition Disruptors. This is more an issue with procs in general and not strictly a plasma issue.
Now that's not say that the proc doesn't have an effect or can't help you, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor of what's making or breaking your build. There will always be procs that are more valuable in certain situations than others, as that's just the nature of the beast. That's not the fault of Plasma itself. If foes are dying super fast, then another proc may be more useful to you than strictly the plasma burn. Every energy type has their strengths and weaknesses in terms of proc, but simply because a proc may not be that great in one particular situation doesn't make it a bad weapon or automatically mean it's underperforming. What you're describing in regards to foes dying too fast speaks more to power creep than it does purely the plasma proc.
I've been pushing for more plasma support for awhile now, so I agree plasma still needs more, however we've been given a fantastic start with the Altamid lobi set. In regards to damage, your idea of underpowered and simply useable and my definition are clearly not the same. I would dare say any of the energy types can bust 200k today if the player is experienced enough. Some will be easier than others, but ultimately its not the energy types that matters as much as how one kits out the ship and flies it. In terms of pure energy damage and such, plasma can deal great damage, it's just harder to do it compared to the other types now. Although I agree plasma needs additional support options, the fact that it's harder to deal damage with plasma doesn't automatically mean it's bad or underperforming. In the tests myself and crew have done, plasma has came rocketing back with this new Altamid stuff. When my guy gets on later I'll get his highest parse with plasma for you. Overall I think your analogy is flawed as you're trying to compare energy weapons to things like torps and mines.
To answer your question, the Altamid Plasma set is indeed the new stuff. Also it IS in fact the second plasma omni. So it's possible for you to equip a standard Altamid Plasma omni and the lobi version as they don't share a lockout. So plasma right now is the only energy type that lets you have 2 of the same type of omni on a ship. The 3 piece bonus gives 100% firing cycle haste for 12 seconds as it sits right now. That also stacks with other firing cycle haste bonuses. So if you want to run an overload plasma build, you can spike your firing cycle haste up to the point you're firing just as fast as a normal cycle or even faster, but with overloaded weapons. In fact during our testing myself and good friend Timberwolf nearly crashed our game on Tribble when we were pushing it to the max. This is definitely one time I would make an exception and pick up the lobi equipment. If you're going to run plasma, imo this new stuff is a must have. The basic proc of the Altamid plasma weapons also debuff the target for a -15 Plasma AND Kinetic damage resist rating.
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Altamid_Adaptation
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Except there are plenty of phaser options that don't have that proc...heck two types that just get bonus stats instead of a proc at all, like AP, not to mention there are just so many more universal consoles with phaser damage than any other type.
No reason at all to use the weapon with the useless proc when you have some of the best weapons in the game tied to phaser.
Any weapon that has two procs loses a mod in exchange.
I ran phased tetryon for a while because I liked the cyan color rather than the straight electric blue of standard tetryon. But eventually HAD to change because I was feeling the loss of that mod in terms of damage output. And this is coming from someone who doesn't chase every last decimal point of performance for max deeps. I'm content with getting in the 10-15k range for most builds as that is comfortable for most content. But the hybrid weapons just don't cut it these days. Many look nice, but the performance is underwhelming even on their own without set support.
Simply increasing the damage compounds the issue of the only difference between energy types and weapons is the color and sound effect.
I'd rather see conditional bonuses like using Romulan Plasma with a Romulan captain or Romulan ship with a further "3-piece" set bonus for Romulan Plasma with a Romulan Captain on a Romulan ship. Create incentives for players not to gravitate toward any one particular meta where new players have to sell their souls to get a FED DPRM from a ship they won't likely fly. Give them a reason to fly the ship with bonuses.
I'd rather see more variety in builds and ships with many more ship types competitive arising from the specific build.
Sounds a bit similar to how the Dominion set has added stuff if equipped to a Cardassian or Jem'Hadar ship.
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the factional sets get a few bonuses when equipped on ships belonging to that faction. The bonuses can't be super awesome though because then we'd start seeing only certain sets on certain ships that would conflict with prefered playstyle or ships, but it should be just enough to be competative. Basically since the tech belongs to one particular faction, it is more effeient on a ship that came from that faction too. Putting say the Krenim set on a Federation ship would be as it is now, but equipped on a Krenim ship you get a slight bonus to something or other.
So kinda like Scotty installing a Romulan Cloak on the Enterprise. It was an ad hoc setup on a ship it wasn't designed for. But he made it work. To get the MOST out of it, it would have to be with compatable tech sort of thing.
Honestly with the more widely available Breen ships, I'm surprised they didn't retroactively add a bonus to the Breen set when equipped to a Breen Ship.
Yes there is a large difference in the core weapons when talking about mines and torps but when it comes to procs, apart from the proc chance tends to be higher the procs themselves are often very similar. Which was why I mentioned the torp/mine plasma proc as its very similar to the energy plasma proc and demonstrates the problem with the plasma proc.
To me it seem the problem is the plasma procs like the DoT has not moved with the times and scales badly.
I would like to see all plasma weapons undergo a balance pass as some like the plasma kinetic weapons now have zero benefits having lost them all over the years.
that being said, the altamid set is VERY good for boosting plasma from being almost worse than tetryon to about on par with antiproton - the only thing stopping it from being on par is that free 20% crit sev
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
@rattler2
The Breen energy Siphon (Hypercooled 3-piece) DOES have a bonus when equipped on a breen vessel.
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Breen_Absolute_Zero
and you have to equip the ENTIRETY of one of the worst sets in the game to get that so-called 'bonus'...the whole thing needs a major overhaul, because a deflector coming from a race that prides itself on energy drain should have the highest DrainX stat in the game...it does not - even the jem'hadar deflector has more, a race which has NOTHING to do with energy drain; the only reason it even HAS that stat to begin with is polaron synergy, because for some dumb reason, cryptic decided to give polaron a drain proc while the game was being developed, despite it not doing any such thing in the actual show
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Hey, it IS an ancient set so don't expect miracles but the statement was that it did not have a bonus.
The breen set is dated, but is actually quite useful against the vaadwaur. I often use it as a starter set on science vessels.