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Star Trek once again has beaten Star Wars.......
jake477
Member Posts: 527 Arc User
in Ten Forward
The great war maybe finally coming to an end after the recent disasters of Star Wars under Disney/Lucasfilms. Sure Starfleet has seen its share of ups and downs but for the most part we are always growing. Star Trek Discovery ended its Season on a high note (Go Pike) and Star Trek Picard just looks too cool for words. The Conventions are still drawing crowds and yes even Tarantino's rumored Star Trek project is still welcomed news.
In a galaxy far far away however, there is absolutely zero hype for the Rise of Skywalker. The Last Jedi effectively killed off not just Luke Skywalker but Star Wars in general. Now that most of OT characters are either gone via death on screen or death in real life, Star Wars fans didn't get the chance to have a reunion as it were like we do with the TNG cast in the new Picard TV series. The OT characters have also been twisted into a mirror of their former selves for the sake of "diversity." At least 2009's Trek Crew were still themselves besides a few minor changes. The newer characters in Sequel Trilogy are either too op or too boring. Disney's new Galaxy's Edge was a complete flop compared to what was expected and far too expensive to visit. Rian Johnson the man who destroyed Star Wars, rumored to get ANOTHER Trilogy, say what you will about Tarantino but at least he is a well established director with major wins under his belt while Rian Johnson only has indie films and the rotting corpse of a once great franchise.
Rise of Skywalker is projected to bomb because most fans will be staying home out of spite, killing your greatest character ie Luke Skywalker is franchise suicide. Imagine if the TNG writers killed Picard? Just imagine that. Whats the point of TNG without Picard????
Trek is forever.....this just proves it.
In a galaxy far far away however, there is absolutely zero hype for the Rise of Skywalker. The Last Jedi effectively killed off not just Luke Skywalker but Star Wars in general. Now that most of OT characters are either gone via death on screen or death in real life, Star Wars fans didn't get the chance to have a reunion as it were like we do with the TNG cast in the new Picard TV series. The OT characters have also been twisted into a mirror of their former selves for the sake of "diversity." At least 2009's Trek Crew were still themselves besides a few minor changes. The newer characters in Sequel Trilogy are either too op or too boring. Disney's new Galaxy's Edge was a complete flop compared to what was expected and far too expensive to visit. Rian Johnson the man who destroyed Star Wars, rumored to get ANOTHER Trilogy, say what you will about Tarantino but at least he is a well established director with major wins under his belt while Rian Johnson only has indie films and the rotting corpse of a once great franchise.
Rise of Skywalker is projected to bomb because most fans will be staying home out of spite, killing your greatest character ie Luke Skywalker is franchise suicide. Imagine if the TNG writers killed Picard? Just imagine that. Whats the point of TNG without Picard????
Trek is forever.....this just proves it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "This planet smells, it must be the Klingons"
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Pike finally receiving a personality (a likeable one on top of that) sure was a highlight of S2, but the end of S2 was rather a lowpoint for both Pike and the show.
The Picard-Trailer. Lack of words, true - but probably for different reasons than being "too cool" for them. It's looking too much like Renegades with bigger budget.
I liked Renegades.
star wars is like apple. star trek , microsoft
Aside from the fact that many Star Wars fans didn't bother seeing Solo due to how bad they thought The Last Jedi was. The Last Jedi has a worse Audience Score on Rotten Tomatoes than every single Star Wars live action prequel movie. The animated Clone Wars movie has the worst Audience Score on Rotten Tomatoes for Star Wars movies.
Which is why I mentioned Rotten Tomatoes' Audience Score and not their Tomatometer score. There are more people that dislike The Last Jedi than those who like it. Each fan that is turned off by an awful movie in a series means that the movie company generates less money in future movies in the series.
My main problem with The Last Jedi was that most of it was too boring. Aside from a few scenes in The Last Jedi, Star Trek: The Motion Picture was more exciting. Turning Luke Skywalker into a Sith Lord would have been far better than what he got in The Last Jedi.
As far as calling people who dislike a movie wrong is ignoring the problems that a movie has. Solo is far better than The Last Jedi and far too many people won't watch Solo because of how bad The Last Jedi was.
Solo was entertaining, although IMO unnecessary (I really didn't need to know how the band first got together, or the story of why Han might have feared seeing Lando again). It certainly didn't compare in either scope or interest to TLJ, in my eyes.
And most of the fan (or, more often, fanboy) badmouthing of TLJ that I've seen, when reasons are given at all for disliking it, tend to boil down to being mad that Luke isn't some kind of badass warrior solving every problem by killing it with his lightsaber (which betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what exactly the Jedi Order was supposed to represent, at least according to Yoda's lectures in TESB - speaking of slow movies without much action), or almost as often the weird idea that girls can't be Jedi masters (like she's any less likely a Jedi master than some farmboy from a waste-world out in the Outer Rim territories, or a kid sweeping up a stable on a resort planet somewhere).
TLJ left a bitter taste to be honest for me, it was too long and there was a lot of filler content. It had the potential but it fell flat on it's face. I'll be giving Rise of Skywalker a miss to be honest.
I'm going to say it but TLJ is worse than Attack of the Clones. Attack of the Clones was a really bad Star Wars movie.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Have we become so jaded? Has being a cynic and negative about everything become the new normal? This forum is supporting a game based upon a TV and film series where hope was found in abundance. Where people being different from one another was something to be celebrated rather than looked down upon. Where the future was expected to be brighter and better. Not full of the same old suspicions and mistrusts and half truths.
Are Star Trek fans now required to despise everything Star Wars? Further, are we required to publicly display this disdain often and proudly? If so, then clearly the Star Trek fanbase has taken a disgusting turn for the worse.
That IS a good question Jon. Even considering him taking out Starkiller base and the eventual 'success' in taking out the FO dreadnaught, he should have been slapped in irons after his mutiny if not airlocked. I'm assuming that he wasn't the first time as he was disobeying an order while the second he actually relieved a superior officer. If I were General Organa, I'd also have the procurement/acquisition officer in irons as well for procuring those bombers. Talk about flying death traps.
My issue with TLJ and Luke's portrayal isn't so much that he was great hero who became disgruntled and jaded. I find that perfectly plausible but my problem is there seemed to be only lip service (storywise) as to how he got there. It would have made it easier to accept if we got a bit more than his confrontation with Kylo in the flashback scene. Something also showing his growing unease with the Jedi teachings he discovered. Something that culminated in his confrontation which would cause him to finally throw in the towel.
I also think the problem with Rey isn't so much that she is a female force user or master. Star Wars has well established that female jedi masters are a thing. The problem is (at least with what is shown on screen) is that she uses it almost effortlessly while the farmboy at least had a few training scenes Yoda. All of it coming together a few days after we see her scavenging and scrubbing parts on Jakku. If Rey has any real faults, based on what's shown is that she's almost insufferably naive. She really has no other character flaws other than that. I have other gripes with TLJ but they're minor and not worth derailing the thread over.
As for the future of Star Wars, I'm hopeful that D & D can come up with something good despite my disappointment GoT season 8 ending. If RUMINT is accurate and its set in the Old Republic, then there is plenty of good source material that might make for some great stories for the big screen. The Mandalorian trailer also peaked my interest so I might be signing up for Disney. On the ST front, Picard has me very excited about that series though my bias toward the Romulans is probably a driving factor.
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 65, Rom Sci
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House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
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Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anointed Champion (Faith.)
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Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
You mean the war between children and manchildren saying "my stuff is better than yours". Ok. Every fanbase has those, but that doesn't mean there's actual competition.
Fun fact. I laughed when I heard that some trekkies went into 'the Phantom Menace', dressed in TNG-uniforms and stating they're "just keeping an eye out for the competition" back in the day.
SW and ST just don't have anything in common (that did change a bit after ST2009, but not by much), aside parts of both playing in space.
Yeah. I always thought the 'competition' was a bit silly. While I do consider myself more of an ST than SW fan, I do enjoy and can be critical of both.
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 65, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 65, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 65, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 63, Rom Tac
Sukima, Lvl 65, Fed Vul Sci
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anointed Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
I don't have a problem with Luke not beign a badass lightsaber swinger in TLJ . Though actually he was even better than that, he was able to project a convincing facsimile of himself to fool Kylo Ren and fighting in a baddass lightsaber battle.
No, I had a problem - that was already set up in TFA - with Luke abandoning his family and friends and hiding himself away for decades. That just doesn't seem to fit anything we know and have seen about Luke, and his sudden character change happened essentially off-screen and was unearned.
The whole Canto subplot also seemed rather silly and feels like it just repeated character development that we had already seen, but the characters cheering about having saved a few alien horses that could easily be caught again in the next few hours while the enslaved children are still enslaved. Can't see how that was worth much, both for the characters or the viewers. The whole "there is just one hacker that might do it, but hey, the guy that we found in this cell can do it just as well, except he betrays" also felt like it was all too convenient for the plot (not neccessarily the characters.)
I guess I could accept the serious flaws of the prequels a bit better than the flaws of the sequels - the prequels don't invalidate the story of the original trilogy, but the sequels (starting with TFA) basically destroyed the entire "happily ever after" the originals suggested. Off-Screen, Han and Leia's relationship falls apart, Luke turns into an uncaring hermit, and the Empire basically just got renamed.
Aftermath-Stories like that work fairly well for "normal" fairy tales - So maybe kissing a sleeping princess and immediately marrying her is not a solid foundation for a happy marriage or a stable country. But the beauty is - it's just one possible story that will be told. But Star Wars isn't a normal fairy tale, it's heavily trademarked. Only Disney can continue the story, and if they do it badly, we're stuck with it.
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All that said, I don't think Star Wars or was beaten by Star Trek. I am fairly certain that the next movie will be quite succesful. People still want to know how it turns out. And Disney's streaming offerings will also attract crowds (including me). Maybe the "Grand Saga" part wasn't what people hoped it to be (but maybe even that will be turned around in IX if the movie is enjoyable enough and ends that story), but the setting offers still plenty of attractive trappings. It might even be more flexibe overall then Star Trek has been so far.
The Star Trek fanbase have never practiced what they preach. This is the fanbase which raged over a 10-second scene showing Sulu with his boyfriend in Beyond and another homosexual couple in Disco. The 'broad church' Star Trek fans are a minority of those who are actually active on forums like this.
Or, TLDR, this fanbase has more 'Gatekeepers' and 'True Scotsmen' than England has garden gates.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
I actually liked the phone joke.
What irritated me about TLJ was some of the stupid things like the Admiral basically throwing fuel onto a fire. She somewhat redeems herself in the end, but for most of the movie I just felt she was a stuck up "mother knows best" type.
Also... arcing turbolasers? Wut?
And... they SOOOO missed an opprotunity to bring in Lando. Instead we got that slicer who turned out to be working for the First Order.
Finally... for an organization that was operating with limited resources... they sure grew quickly, I mean EXPLOSIVELY quickly, after TFA. Going from hostile fringe element to dominating the galaxy in the span of... what? one hour? Hell... the whole concept of the Republic not even considering them a threat if the First Order has THAT MUCH military hardware... is stupid! NO government would just flat out ignore a radical group like that that has basically declared their intentions to destroy you.
I couldn't agree more, Cold. I liked Solo enough, less than Rogue One but way more than bot TFA and TLJ (I actually can't decide which one made me gag more, but I'll get there... in a couple of decades, probably). Do I go around telling people they're wrong because they liked both of them? Nope. Do I consider my opinion the only right one? Nope.
I guess it's too much to ask, on a TRIBBLE FORUM, to have a discussion without people saying "I'm right and you're wrong, and that's that". I guess it's too much to ask, on a TRIBBLE FORUM, to talk about something. Yeah, after all that's not what they were created for! Oh, wait...
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Not ALL of the Star Trek fanbase is as you've depicted. I'm not. And these forums probably represent a small percentage of the total fanbase. There seems to be more 'Gatekeepers' and 'True Scotsman' then there probably is. Because they are so damnably noisy all the time. They substitute volume for logic and reason. Shout something stupid loud enough long enough and other stupid people will gather towards the shouter. The problem is the negative part of the fanbase gets far more attention paid to it than it needs or deserves. Starve it of the attention it craves like an opioid, and it will wither and rot. As it should.
TL;DR - Once again, the best advice is to stop feeding the trolls. Easy to say and preach to others. Very hard to actually do.
Put down the pipe...whatever it has in it, it's NOT tobacco.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
To be honest I think forcing characters to have flaws is bad writing. It takes a lot of writing to explain it, and unless it's a major part of the backstory it's not worth it.
My character Tsin'xing
welll the first three are fairly passive, anakin and luke would just be receiving insights from the force which doesn't need them to do anything it's literally just something all force sensitives get.
leia subconsciously using the force while being very focused on killing jabba is pretty much, while pretty close to the darkside, exactly when something like that would happen.
rey reversing ren's mind probe could probably be written off the same way, ren did most of the work starting it. the mind trick can not, it's an advanced skill that even powerful jedi masters can fail if the person they are trying it on is too alien. personally I figure it's just hollywood's fondness for escalation. but that doesn't make it not a little over the top.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
That's why I didn't have an overall problem with her sparing off with the lightsaber. It was shown that she at least had some weapons training given her line of work and the planet she was on. That all made sense. Her mechanical skills and heck even her atmospheric piloting made sense given that her line of work was shown. Her using the force, after it was confirmed to her as real and utilize it with relative ease seemed a little too far fetched for me. The issue for me was her force use and being naive, not much of anything else - except her swimming.
See I didn't really care much for Anakin's backstory in PM for pretty much the same reasons. And I really didn't feel he was a relatable character nor much of a tragic character, especially since we already know his fate and he was either annoying or a brat in the first two films of the prequels. I also couldn't even fathom Shmi allowing her ONLY child to enter such a dangerous race. Backwoods rules I guess.
With respect to Luke womprat kills or Leia's strangulation strength of Jabba, there wasn't anything shown to show that the force was being channeled. It was told in the novelization in Leia's case and (I'm assuming) Luke's case but it just have easily been she was in a desperate situation and he was just a damn good shot. Which would be expected given there probably isn't all that much else for Luke to do on Tatooine.
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 65, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 65, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 65, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 63, Rom Tac
Sukima, Lvl 65, Fed Vul Sci
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anointed Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Not necessarily. While you're spot on with the first statement (as flag officers aren't required to explain anything even to officers not slapped with insubordination), and you're right, his actions would have been deemed unacceptable I highly doubt they would have shot him for it as a good leader (which Leia is) would have taken into account the mitigating factors. The key ones that saved him in the first instance was...he was successful. Both in taking out Starkiller base and taking out the dreadnought. If he hadn't I doubt Leia would have spared him a trip to the brig rather than a demotion. I suspect that in the later case, he was her best pilot and probably would be hard pressed to find another one given their eventual landing and subsequent fight against the First Order.
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 65, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 65, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 65, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 63, Rom Tac
Sukima, Lvl 65, Fed Vul Sci
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anointed Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
her knowing the some people can rearrange another person's mind, if only temporally, to be more to their likening is very different from doing it. if it took her any real length of time it probably be easier to accept but all of 5 minutes? yeah people finding it a bit questionable aren't being unreasonable here. granted that is rare these days but stranger things have happened.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I'm also considering how well respected he is with the other pilots. Why was it so easy for him to rally a mutiny? Because he was still highly respected by the pilots.
So... You've got an Admiral who seems to not care, a hotshot, hotheaded, well liked pilot who's frustrated with the lack of anything resembling a plan...
It was a powder keg. One that frankly Admiral Holdo should have seen coming a mile away.
Hell... at least telling him there is SOMETHING might have calmed him down a bit, rather that the total brush off that lit the fuse.
My character Tsin'xing
But that really ended up being of no real consequence. Any change or even acceptance of that fact if what Kylo told her was true didn't change her outlook, or heightend (or even diminished) her abilities. There was (at least outwardly) nothing at all. I would hardly call that a flaw.
You see, when I saw that in theaters and subsequent viewings, I looked at that as Luke reaching out to her and relaying his location and able to spot him once he was in-range. While Yoda did mention that there was another, I didn't put two and two together and we (most of the audience) didn't get confirmation of Leia's force sensitivity until RotJ. All of that would indicate that Leia was force-sensitive but I probably would have walked out of the theater as a kid, if Leia started lifting Jabba off slab.
Now that's a stretch, Mark. Given the function of a speeder its probably no different for them than driving a car or riding a motorcycle is for us. She acknowledged to Finn that she had some piloting (rather flying skills) while on the run. I can accept that she would know how to fly and maneuver an endo/exo-atmospheric craft given that its stated she's flown before and demostrated her ability outrunning the tie fighters.
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 65, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 65, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 65, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 63, Rom Tac
Sukima, Lvl 65, Fed Vul Sci
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anointed Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
And that little mistake destroyed over half of the transport fleet because Finn and Tico picked up the wrong codebreaker. It is possible that there will be a redemption story for DJ in Rise of Skywalker, but Finn and Tico are partially responsible for the deaths of all the people on those transport ships.
Uh, last I checked, Dark Empire was set after The Thrawn Trilogy, and Jaina Solo lived to marry Jagged Fel and produce a dynasty that lasted over a century to the Legacy comic series.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Force Persuade is also very effective on heavily indoctrinated and broken people like stormtroopers. Obi-wan mind-tricked an entire squad of stormtroopers at once in ANH, if you recall.
Borrowing from Legends again, in X-Wing: The Krytos Trap, Corran Horn makes himself invisible to a couple of stormtroopers out of sheer desperation not to be found, before he's even remotely aware he's Force-sensitive. In the next book, he tries to do it to a stormtrooper on Thyferra in a less stressful situation and fails miserably. And this is a guy for whom illusions and mental trickery are the main focus of his powerset (the Halcyons and Horns are completely incapable of telekinesis--no Force jumps, no grabbing his lightsaber back after he drops it).
Rey taking two or three tries to do it to a single stormie when she's desperate is honestly fine.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/