I'd have to agree. It almost sounds like someone's trying to copy Harmony Gold's war on Battletech to a degree. "Oh look! Similarities! LAWSUIT!"
Okay in the Harmony Gold case, if you think that was just similarities...yeah I don't think what you call similar really counts. The pheonix hawk and shadow hawk were straight up copes of the valkeries. The rifleman and archer was a copy of the ground mechs that defended the SDF1. If you are saying that the "similarities" in the Harmony Gold case is like this one...I'm sorry to say, you are saying that CBS did a BLATANT copy.
Harmony Gold STARTED with a legit case, then went off the rails with stuff that wasn't.
Actually, one of the things that came out in the two most recent iterations of Harmony Gold v. Everybody was that Harmony Gold may never have held a legitimate license to begin with (due to their licensor Tatsunoko not having had the right to license it). This led to the lawsuit against Piranha Games being dismissed with prejudice; the one against Harebrained Schemes and Paradox followed it into the grave shortly afterwards.
Harmony Gold dug their own graves with their litigations. No one wants to let them have ANYTHING for fear HG will try to repeat this with THEIR franchise.
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
I think Harmony Gold thought they could get some quick cash by abusing some the old licenses they had since IIRC they don't really much in terms of income otherwise.
They never thought the people they were suing would actually fight the accusations.
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
I think Harmony Gold thought they could get some quick cash by abusing some the old licenses they had since IIRC they don't really much in terms of income otherwise.
They never thought the people they were suing would actually fight the accusations.
At the moment it doesn't look like they have much in terms of income even with the litigations!
Okay...that is some stupid level of lawsuits that HG is going on and good for them losing them all. Also...how are they still in buisness when nobody will work with them in like 40 years.
Because HG really isn't a "Entertainment Company". They always were a Real Estate Company playing in the Entertainment Industry. A part of the reason they've been lawsuit trolling (beyond what they thought they had...) was they could write off any Robotech/Macross legal costs against their Rights fees to Tatsunoko.
STO CBT Player - 400 day+ Vet, Currently Silver
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
Full, Story-driven, select from start 1-50 Klingon Side
Scrap current Lock Box & Lobi system for something more reasonable
Expand Dil and Rep/Fleet Marks to regular story content
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
I think Harmony Gold thought they could get some quick cash by abusing some the old licenses they had since IIRC they don't really much in terms of income otherwise.
They never thought the people they were suing would actually fight the accusations.
At the moment it doesn't look like they have much in terms of income even with the litigations!
true enough however my point was that they're rather desperate for capital, as they're mostly a real estate company not an entertainment company so they're not that talented in entertainment industry and that's costing them.
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
I think Harmony Gold thought they could get some quick cash by abusing some the old licenses they had since IIRC they don't really much in terms of income otherwise.
They never thought the people they were suing would actually fight the accusations.
At the moment it doesn't look like they have much in terms of income even with the litigations!
true enough however my point was that they're rather desperate for capital, as they're mostly a real estate company not an entertainment company so they're not that talented in entertainment industry and that's costing them.
Have they done any entertainment at all in the last decade?
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
I think Harmony Gold thought they could get some quick cash by abusing some the old licenses they had since IIRC they don't really much in terms of income otherwise.
They never thought the people they were suing would actually fight the accusations.
At the moment it doesn't look like they have much in terms of income even with the litigations!
true enough however my point was that they're rather desperate for capital, as they're mostly a real estate company not an entertainment company so they're not that talented in entertainment industry and that's costing them.
Have they done any entertainment at all in the last decade?
Does them providing us the joy of watching them sue themselves into the dirt count?
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
I think Harmony Gold thought they could get some quick cash by abusing some the old licenses they had since IIRC they don't really much in terms of income otherwise.
They never thought the people they were suing would actually fight the accusations.
At the moment it doesn't look like they have much in terms of income even with the litigations!
true enough however my point was that they're rather desperate for capital, as they're mostly a real estate company not an entertainment company so they're not that talented in entertainment industry and that's costing them.
Have they done any entertainment at all in the last decade?
Not sure to be honest. according to Wikipedia they released something in 2014 but that's not a reliable source so who knows.
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
I think Harmony Gold thought they could get some quick cash by abusing some the old licenses they had since IIRC they don't really much in terms of income otherwise.
They never thought the people they were suing would actually fight the accusations.
At the moment it doesn't look like they have much in terms of income even with the litigations!
true enough however my point was that they're rather desperate for capital, as they're mostly a real estate company not an entertainment company so they're not that talented in entertainment industry and that's costing them.
Have they done any entertainment at all in the last decade?
Does them providing us the joy of watching them sue themselves into the dirt count?
Well, I actually wonder what people are gonna do with that ruling. Can it be applied retroactively?
I think there is some merit to Abdin's case. I think some people are discovery haters, and are using this as a crusade, and some people are too much discovery knight's and attacking Abdin himself on a personal level, or attacking his case. Just because you hate a show, does not make it 100% sure that it did anything wrong legal just because you hate it, I dislike discovery and I understand this, but on the other hand, just because you love the show does not mean that Abdin is some how a greedy lowlife TRIBBLE trying to squeeze some money out of a big corporation because it just happens to have similarities to a game he made before it existed.
I've looked at the evidence and it may be that Abdin is inexperience with legal issues on this scale resulting in his mistakes, after all I doubt any of us have much experience suing a billion dollar corporation on our own.
But also there are some startling similarities between the two properties that are hard to ignore, plus with CBS actions in the past it makes it really hard to ignore the possibility that they are at wrong here.
But I think its too early to reach a true final verdict but I admit I am leaning towards abdin here, purely based off of evidence alone.
I think there is some merit to Abdin's case. I think some people are discovery haters, and are using this as a crusade, and some people are too much discovery knight's and attacking Abdin himself on a personal level, or attacking his case. Just because you hate a show, does not make it 100% sure that it did anything wrong legal just because you hate it, I dislike discovery and I understand this, but on the other hand, just because you love the show does not mean that Abdin is some how a greedy lowlife TRIBBLE trying to squeeze some money out of a big corporation because it just happens to have similarities to a game he made before it existed.
I've looked at the evidence and it may be that Abdin is inexperience with legal issues on this scale resulting in his mistakes, after all I doubt any of us have much experience suing a billion dollar corporation on our own.
But also there are some startling similarities between the two properties that are hard to ignore, plus with CBS actions in the past it makes it really hard to ignore the possibility that they are at wrong here.
But I think its too early to reach a true final verdict but I admit I am leaning towards abdin here, purely based off of evidence alone.
Thing is, I actually sympathise with Abdin. From what I've read, it appears he's been manipulated by the anti-DSC crusade (led by Knight Templar Midnight's Edge) into launching a legal case with barely a chance of succeeding in an attempt to rally people against CBS like Alec Peters did with the Axanar lawsuit. And obviously his solicitors don't care if he wins or not provided they get paid (I'm admittedly assuming there's no such thing as 'no win, no fee' in the US).
I think there is some merit to Abdin's case. I think some people are discovery haters, and are using this as a crusade, and some people are too much discovery knight's and attacking Abdin himself on a personal level, or attacking his case. Just because you hate a show, does not make it 100% sure that it did anything wrong legal just because you hate it, I dislike discovery and I understand this, but on the other hand, just because you love the show does not mean that Abdin is some how a greedy lowlife TRIBBLE trying to squeeze some money out of a big corporation because it just happens to have similarities to a game he made before it existed.
I've looked at the evidence and it may be that Abdin is inexperience with legal issues on this scale resulting in his mistakes, after all I doubt any of us have much experience suing a billion dollar corporation on our own.
But also there are some startling similarities between the two properties that are hard to ignore, plus with CBS actions in the past it makes it really hard to ignore the possibility that they are at wrong here.
But I think its too early to reach a true final verdict but I admit I am leaning towards abdin here, purely based off of evidence alone.
Thing is, I actually sympathise with Abdin. From what I've read, it appears he's been manipulated by the anti-DSC crusade (led by Knight Templar Midnight's Edge) into launching a legal case with barely a chance of succeeding in an attempt to rally people against CBS like Alec Peters did with the Axanar lawsuit. And obviously his solicitors don't care if he wins or not provided they get paid (I'm admittedly assuming there's no such thing as 'no win, no fee' in the US).
We should also remember that IIRC Abdin isn't an american citizen (he's a citizen of Kuwait), so he might not be familiar with the actual US legal system opposed to the "Hollywood" version. I got nothing against those who said his case might have some merit (CBS more or less stealing the orginal B5 concept to make DS9 is rather well known), who I have issues with are the ones who claim that Abdin must be 100% correct because those people dislike Discovery or just big companies in general.
The legal case clearly had enough merit to proceed to the discovery phase (no pun intended), but that doesn't mean CBS did anything illegal either, just that case had enough merit to be "possible".
I think there is some merit to Abdin's case. I think some people are discovery haters, and are using this as a crusade, and some people are too much discovery knight's and attacking Abdin himself on a personal level, or attacking his case. Just because you hate a show, does not make it 100% sure that it did anything wrong legal just because you hate it, I dislike discovery and I understand this, but on the other hand, just because you love the show does not mean that Abdin is some how a greedy lowlife TRIBBLE trying to squeeze some money out of a big corporation because it just happens to have similarities to a game he made before it existed.
I've looked at the evidence and it may be that Abdin is inexperience with legal issues on this scale resulting in his mistakes, after all I doubt any of us have much experience suing a billion dollar corporation on our own.
But also there are some startling similarities between the two properties that are hard to ignore, plus with CBS actions in the past it makes it really hard to ignore the possibility that they are at wrong here.
But I think its too early to reach a true final verdict but I admit I am leaning towards abdin here, purely based off of evidence alone.
Thing is, I actually sympathise with Abdin. From what I've read, it appears he's been manipulated by the anti-DSC crusade (led by Knight Templar Midnight's Edge) into launching a legal case with barely a chance of succeeding in an attempt to rally people against CBS like Alec Peters did with the Axanar lawsuit. And obviously his solicitors don't care if he wins or not provided they get paid (I'm admittedly assuming there's no such thing as 'no win, no fee' in the US).
Oh I understand, I sympathise with him too. I think he's being used and people are hating on him for little reason other than he is becoming a symbol against his will.
And it depends on the Lawyer, though usually you do still have to pay legal fees and I believe he is having to, sometimes Lawyers are willing to do a lawsuit for a percentage of the winnings instead of fees. But I think most aren't willing to do that unless they're absolutely sure they'll win.
But also there are some startling similarities between the two properties that are hard to ignore, plus with CBS actions in the past it makes it really hard to ignore the possibility that they are at wrong here.
I would say that it's really just a handful of paper thin similarities. Most of the similarities are equally true if you compare Abdin's game with TNG. It's that flimsy.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
The problem is there are also similarities to Dune in Abdin's game.
And I had never even HEARD of Abdin and his game until all this shtako started.
But if he wants to try and claim that the uniforms are like his in his game... Enterprise had blue jumpsuit uniforms before Discovery.
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
Yeah, I kinda doubt PDX wasn't helping. It's their money on the line, too, and they're a much bigger company with a better-equipped legal staff.
The problem is there are also similarities to Dune in Abdin's game.
And the backstory of Stargate to boot.
Even the tardigrades can easily be chalked up to coincidence. It's reasonable to assume both series and game were in early development in 2014 when the erroneous paper about tardigrades using horizontal gene transfer was published, which DSC mashed up with papers about mycelium fungal networks in forests and standard Star Trek technobabble to produce the space mushroom drive.
The hilarious part of that is, goofy as it sounds, the spore drive has more roots in actual science than most of the BS the TNG era came up with put together ("crack in the event horizon", anyone?).
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
Yeah, I kinda doubt PDX wasn't helping. It's their money on the line, too, and they're a much bigger company with a better-equipped legal staff.
I believe the real "hero" in that case was PGI (Mechwarrior Online), who kinda were prepared for this and had reserved money for the case, and were not willing to just give up on it.
Of course, it pains me to call PGI "hero". Still pretty disappointed with how MW:O turned out.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Yea... I tried MW:O... didn't like it. My usual "Bullet Magnet" status in Multiplayer kicked in with a vengeance and I always got oneshot. Frankly its worse than World of Tanks. At least in WoT they have tiers for tanks. In MW:O is a free-for-all on mechs. You got a light? Guess what? You're going in with everything, even Assault mechs! Have fun!
MW:O is pretty much just Solaris VII matches. I'll wait for MechWarrior 5.
The problem is there are also similarities to Dune in Abdin's game.
And I had never even HEARD of Abdin and his game until all this shtako started.
But if he wants to try and claim that the uniforms are like his in his game... Enterprise had blue jumpsuit uniforms before Discovery.
Yeah his game has very few things that can be considered original. It borrows heavily from pretty much every sci-fi imaginable. Him trying to sue is pretty much guaranteed to fail.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Hell... I wouldn't be surprised if CBS informed other IP holders about Abdin depending on how much was "borrowed" from their franchises. I actually heard a rumor that the prologue was a full on rip from Dune. I don't know if its true, but if so that is a big problem for him.
Hell... I wouldn't be surprised if CBS informed other IP holders about Abdin depending on how much was "borrowed" from their franchises. I actually heard a rumor that the prologue was a full on rip from Dune. I don't know if its true, but if so that is a big problem for him.
I think again, you're being a bit too venomous about this. The thing is his tardigrades might hold similarities to some of the things in Dune but They're still Tardigrades that function practically the same as how the tardigrade in discovery functions. And the similarities between character's roles, relationships, appearances, and uniforms to the show is pretty startling. The fact that every character that was TRIBBLE in his game, their look a likes in the show are also TRIBBLE helps add to the possibility that CBS did steal ideas from his game.
I would put this case as very similar to the Babylon 5/DS9 thing. CBS most likely did take some ideas, but it could be that just copying premises and ideas isn't enough to sue.
Hell... I wouldn't be surprised if CBS informed other IP holders about Abdin depending on how much was "borrowed" from their franchises. I actually heard a rumor that the prologue was a full on rip from Dune. I don't know if its true, but if so that is a big problem for him.
I think again, you're being a bit too venomous about this. The thing is his tardigrades might hold similarities to some of the things in Dune but They're still Tardigrades that function practically the same as how the tardigrade in discovery functions. And the similarities between character's roles, relationships, appearances, and uniforms to the show is pretty startling. The fact that every character that was TRIBBLE in his game, their look a likes in the show are also TRIBBLE helps add to the possibility that CBS did steal ideas from his game.
I would put this case as very similar to the Babylon 5/DS9 thing. CBS most likely did take some ideas, but it could be that just copying premises and ideas isn't enough to sue.
In the case of B5/DS9, JMS actually pitched B5 to Paramount before DS9 was made, but Paramount weren't interested at the time, so JMS went ahead and made the show with Time Warner (I think, the DVDs I have say WB Home Distribution on the end credits). Then Paramount made DS9. Thing is, DS9 didn't really get similar in plot to B5 until Season 3 (at best).
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
I'm not being venomous at all. I'm just stating a rumor I heard, stated that I don't know if its true, and citing that if it is that is more hot water for him.
While I do wish the haters would stop using it as a rally cry, I'm more tired than venomous really. Just want it to be done and over with so we can just move on.
Trek is Trek. No one said anything about what you must like about it (or hate) to be considered a fan. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
Just... let this frickin' thing go already. beating us over the head with it isn't going to make it go any faster or change opinions or outcomes. What happens happens. We cannot change it. So can we just... live without acting like our lives hinge on swaying people one way or the other over something so... stupid? So what if you don't like it? Its not the end of the world! There's no need for some grand Crusade to "save souls of true believers" or anything like that. Stop getting bent out of shape because some people like something you don't.
I'm not being venomous at all. I'm just stating a rumor I heard, stated that I don't know if its true, and citing that if it is that is more hot water for him.
While I do wish the haters would stop using it as a rally cry, I'm more tired than venomous really. Just want it to be done and over with so we can just move on.
Trek is Trek. No one said anything about what you must like about it (or hate) to be considered a fan. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
Just... let this frickin' thing go already. beating us over the head with it isn't going to make it go any faster or change opinions or outcomes. What happens happens. We cannot change it. So can we just... live without acting like our lives hinge on swaying people one way or the other over something so... stupid? So what if you don't like it? Its not the end of the world! There's no need for some grand Crusade to "save souls of true believers" or anything like that. Stop getting bent out of shape because some people like something you don't.
That has nothing to do with my support for Abdin. I don't support him because "other people like something I don't" I honestly don't even hate Discovery as much as I used to. I was talking earlier about how I don't like how some people are trying to turn Abdin into this grand crusade or something like that.
I just am supporting him on the possibility from the evidence I've seen that CBS stole a large portion from his idea.
He's just a small time game creator trying to take on a big corporation for wrong doing. He's not the boogieman, he's not satan, and he's no crusader. He's just a guy who wanted some credit for his work and was dismissed, threatened, and ignored when he attempting to resolve things outside of court. I bet he doesn't hate Discovery either.
West, there is no evidence that CBS "stole" anything. There is, as yet, no evidence that anyone at CBS was even aware of his game until he brought suit; production for Discovery was already well under way before Tardigrades even came into being, and getting "greenlit" for Steam isn't exactly an E3 appearance, ya know?
Further, the supposed "theft" is of elements so incredibly generic, any SF production - TRIBBLE, almost any current TV production - could be equally "guilty". There's a black medical officer. You mean like Dr. M'Benga in TOS, or Dr. Franklin in B5? There's a g.a.y couple. Well, that's not exactly unique these days. Tardigrades were all the rage back then, thanks to a since-rescinded paper about horizontal gene transfer, and no, the microscopic tardigrades in Abdin's game were nothing like Ripper - if they were, you'd need actual microscopic tardigrades to make the spore drive work, rather than using an alien creature that looks as much like a tardigrade as a seventy-meter-tall Klingon would look like you as a guidance computer through the mycelial network (which conceptually owes quite a lot to the slipstream drive in Andromeda, but it's not like the Roddenberry estate was going to sue a Star Trek production...).
Basically, it's a nuisance suit, with no validity, and the only reason anyone's pretending to support it at this point is that either they're totally unaware of the history of science fiction, or they just want to stick it to the Man.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
That has nothing to do with my support for Abdin...
Wasn't implying it. "You" was being used as a general term. Not specifically directing it towards any particular person. Guess I could have made myself a bit more clear.
I'm just tired of people getting so polarized by things that we basically have to gear up for war just to state our opinions of stuff because of some need to justify that our opinions are right. My opinion is that Discovery isn't terrible, and has started to redeem itself in season 2. Someone else may disagree with me. I respect their opinion. Its when we get Crusaders who try and beat you over the head over you having an opinion that doesn't line up with their own that we have problems. Thats why I'm tired. Went through it with Enterprise, again with the Kelvin Timeline, and now with Discovery.
I'm tired of having to defend my opinions on elements of a franchise I am a fan of. I respect others views. Just don't shove them down my throat as if it is Word of God when you're not the authority on the franchise. Its your opinion. Not Gospel. Treat others the way you want to be treated. IDIC.
Can't we all just... get along?
Anyways... I've said my piece. As for the lawsuit... I am with jonsils on it. There's a lot that can be thrown around. However there's little to no evidence that CBS was even aware of Abdin's game, let alone existance, when they started production on Discovery. And there are legit cases of parallel development as well. IMO that is what this most likely is. A case of parallel development in terms of the use of a Tartegrade. Beyond that I don't see any similarity between the two that can justify a lawsuit. Abdin can't claim the use of blue jumpsuit uniforms because blue jumpsuits are rather generic, and Enterprise did it before Discovery anyways. Hell... could probably cite TNG science uniforms too if you wanted to go farther. And just as jonsils said, other elements are rather common like ethnic backgrounds or orientation/preference for characters.
This is really a matter for the experts to handle.
The hilarious part of that is, goofy as it sounds, the spore drive has more roots in actual science than most of the BS the TNG era came up with put together ("crack in the event horizon", anyone?).
Granted, I am not a mycologist but I had multiple semesters of mycology and know my way around mycorrhiza and mycels and in no way makes the spore drive any sense, especially since it is fueled by spores. If you just needed Tardigrade DNA to "wander" the magic subspace network it's one thing, but the whole concept is really dumb. It's different, granted, but dumb.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
They didn't go after Paradox. They went after Hairbrained Schemes, the actual developer of the PC Battletech. Paradox was just the publisher/distributor.
But yea... no one wants Harmony Gold to act like they own the IP when they only had distribution rights in the first place. Not actual ownership.
I think Harmony Gold thought they could get some quick cash by abusing some the old licenses they had since IIRC they don't really much in terms of income otherwise.
They never thought the people they were suing would actually fight the accusations.
At the moment it doesn't look like they have much in terms of income even with the litigations!
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Because HG really isn't a "Entertainment Company". They always were a Real Estate Company playing in the Entertainment Industry. A part of the reason they've been lawsuit trolling (beyond what they thought they had...) was they could write off any Robotech/Macross legal costs against their Rights fees to Tatsunoko.
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
My character Tsin'xing
Does them providing us the joy of watching them sue themselves into the dirt count?
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
My character Tsin'xing
I've looked at the evidence and it may be that Abdin is inexperience with legal issues on this scale resulting in his mistakes, after all I doubt any of us have much experience suing a billion dollar corporation on our own.
But also there are some startling similarities between the two properties that are hard to ignore, plus with CBS actions in the past it makes it really hard to ignore the possibility that they are at wrong here.
But I think its too early to reach a true final verdict but I admit I am leaning towards abdin here, purely based off of evidence alone.
Thing is, I actually sympathise with Abdin. From what I've read, it appears he's been manipulated by the anti-DSC crusade (led by Knight Templar Midnight's Edge) into launching a legal case with barely a chance of succeeding in an attempt to rally people against CBS like Alec Peters did with the Axanar lawsuit. And obviously his solicitors don't care if he wins or not provided they get paid (I'm admittedly assuming there's no such thing as 'no win, no fee' in the US).
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
We should also remember that IIRC Abdin isn't an american citizen (he's a citizen of Kuwait), so he might not be familiar with the actual US legal system opposed to the "Hollywood" version. I got nothing against those who said his case might have some merit (CBS more or less stealing the orginal B5 concept to make DS9 is rather well known), who I have issues with are the ones who claim that Abdin must be 100% correct because those people dislike Discovery or just big companies in general.
The legal case clearly had enough merit to proceed to the discovery phase (no pun intended), but that doesn't mean CBS did anything illegal either, just that case had enough merit to be "possible".
Oh I understand, I sympathise with him too. I think he's being used and people are hating on him for little reason other than he is becoming a symbol against his will.
And it depends on the Lawyer, though usually you do still have to pay legal fees and I believe he is having to, sometimes Lawyers are willing to do a lawsuit for a percentage of the winnings instead of fees. But I think most aren't willing to do that unless they're absolutely sure they'll win.
My character Tsin'xing
And I had never even HEARD of Abdin and his game until all this shtako started.
But if he wants to try and claim that the uniforms are like his in his game... Enterprise had blue jumpsuit uniforms before Discovery.
Yeah, I kinda doubt PDX wasn't helping. It's their money on the line, too, and they're a much bigger company with a better-equipped legal staff.
And the backstory of Stargate to boot.
Even the tardigrades can easily be chalked up to coincidence. It's reasonable to assume both series and game were in early development in 2014 when the erroneous paper about tardigrades using horizontal gene transfer was published, which DSC mashed up with papers about mycelium fungal networks in forests and standard Star Trek technobabble to produce the space mushroom drive.
The hilarious part of that is, goofy as it sounds, the spore drive has more roots in actual science than most of the BS the TNG era came up with put together ("crack in the event horizon", anyone?).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Of course, it pains me to call PGI "hero". Still pretty disappointed with how MW:O turned out.
MW:O is pretty much just Solaris VII matches. I'll wait for MechWarrior 5.
My character Tsin'xing
I think again, you're being a bit too venomous about this. The thing is his tardigrades might hold similarities to some of the things in Dune but They're still Tardigrades that function practically the same as how the tardigrade in discovery functions. And the similarities between character's roles, relationships, appearances, and uniforms to the show is pretty startling. The fact that every character that was TRIBBLE in his game, their look a likes in the show are also TRIBBLE helps add to the possibility that CBS did steal ideas from his game.
I would put this case as very similar to the Babylon 5/DS9 thing. CBS most likely did take some ideas, but it could be that just copying premises and ideas isn't enough to sue.
In the case of B5/DS9, JMS actually pitched B5 to Paramount before DS9 was made, but Paramount weren't interested at the time, so JMS went ahead and made the show with Time Warner (I think, the DVDs I have say WB Home Distribution on the end credits). Then Paramount made DS9. Thing is, DS9 didn't really get similar in plot to B5 until Season 3 (at best).
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
While I do wish the haters would stop using it as a rally cry, I'm more tired than venomous really. Just want it to be done and over with so we can just move on.
Trek is Trek. No one said anything about what you must like about it (or hate) to be considered a fan. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
Just... let this frickin' thing go already. beating us over the head with it isn't going to make it go any faster or change opinions or outcomes. What happens happens. We cannot change it. So can we just... live without acting like our lives hinge on swaying people one way or the other over something so... stupid? So what if you don't like it? Its not the end of the world! There's no need for some grand Crusade to "save souls of true believers" or anything like that. Stop getting bent out of shape because some people like something you don't.
That has nothing to do with my support for Abdin. I don't support him because "other people like something I don't" I honestly don't even hate Discovery as much as I used to. I was talking earlier about how I don't like how some people are trying to turn Abdin into this grand crusade or something like that.
I just am supporting him on the possibility from the evidence I've seen that CBS stole a large portion from his idea.
He's just a small time game creator trying to take on a big corporation for wrong doing. He's not the boogieman, he's not satan, and he's no crusader. He's just a guy who wanted some credit for his work and was dismissed, threatened, and ignored when he attempting to resolve things outside of court. I bet he doesn't hate Discovery either.
Further, the supposed "theft" is of elements so incredibly generic, any SF production - TRIBBLE, almost any current TV production - could be equally "guilty". There's a black medical officer. You mean like Dr. M'Benga in TOS, or Dr. Franklin in B5? There's a g.a.y couple. Well, that's not exactly unique these days. Tardigrades were all the rage back then, thanks to a since-rescinded paper about horizontal gene transfer, and no, the microscopic tardigrades in Abdin's game were nothing like Ripper - if they were, you'd need actual microscopic tardigrades to make the spore drive work, rather than using an alien creature that looks as much like a tardigrade as a seventy-meter-tall Klingon would look like you as a guidance computer through the mycelial network (which conceptually owes quite a lot to the slipstream drive in Andromeda, but it's not like the Roddenberry estate was going to sue a Star Trek production...).
Basically, it's a nuisance suit, with no validity, and the only reason anyone's pretending to support it at this point is that either they're totally unaware of the history of science fiction, or they just want to stick it to the Man.
Wasn't implying it. "You" was being used as a general term. Not specifically directing it towards any particular person. Guess I could have made myself a bit more clear.
I'm just tired of people getting so polarized by things that we basically have to gear up for war just to state our opinions of stuff because of some need to justify that our opinions are right. My opinion is that Discovery isn't terrible, and has started to redeem itself in season 2. Someone else may disagree with me. I respect their opinion. Its when we get Crusaders who try and beat you over the head over you having an opinion that doesn't line up with their own that we have problems. Thats why I'm tired. Went through it with Enterprise, again with the Kelvin Timeline, and now with Discovery.
I'm tired of having to defend my opinions on elements of a franchise I am a fan of. I respect others views. Just don't shove them down my throat as if it is Word of God when you're not the authority on the franchise. Its your opinion. Not Gospel. Treat others the way you want to be treated. IDIC.
Can't we all just... get along?
Anyways... I've said my piece. As for the lawsuit... I am with jonsils on it. There's a lot that can be thrown around. However there's little to no evidence that CBS was even aware of Abdin's game, let alone existance, when they started production on Discovery. And there are legit cases of parallel development as well. IMO that is what this most likely is. A case of parallel development in terms of the use of a Tartegrade. Beyond that I don't see any similarity between the two that can justify a lawsuit. Abdin can't claim the use of blue jumpsuit uniforms because blue jumpsuits are rather generic, and Enterprise did it before Discovery anyways. Hell... could probably cite TNG science uniforms too if you wanted to go farther. And just as jonsils said, other elements are rather common like ethnic backgrounds or orientation/preference for characters.
This is really a matter for the experts to handle.
Granted, I am not a mycologist but I had multiple semesters of mycology and know my way around mycorrhiza and mycels and in no way makes the spore drive any sense, especially since it is fueled by spores. If you just needed Tardigrade DNA to "wander" the magic subspace network it's one thing, but the whole concept is really dumb. It's different, granted, but dumb.
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