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More about the Abdin case.... again...

markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
Just to avoid derailing the other thread.
the law suit continues.


Me still cheering for Abdin, more so, now. *shakes her pom-poms*
to preface: I actually read the suit Anas filed, and yeah, it's paper thin and probably not going to hold up to legal scrutiny. So far the judge has done nothing but "ok you filed the paperwork right on the third try".

The latest actual news is that the judge told Anas to provide proof that CBS was aware of his game's EXISTENCE prior to the lawsuit. Which makes sense as the original filing had no such proof. http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=tardigrades_discovery_extension So far Anas's lawyers have gotten to the point where they'd have to sift through CBS's internal emails to find actual proof since they've failed to find it elsewhere.

This video.... is written by someone who apparently never paid attention to the details of the case:

01:32 claims Discovery is produced by Bad Robot, it's not. (Bad Robot works for Paramount not CBS)

01:50 claims they stole ides from Paul Stamets, when he actually helped with production.

02:00 Implies they stole the Mycelial network idea, but doesn't even bother trying to provide an explanation of how it could be stolen from Anas since his work doesn't even use that concept.

02:18 and here we go with the feeble and paper-thin comparisons, now with inaccurate dates. It shows the character creation dates Anas used on his blog, compared with the AIRDATE of the first Discovery episode, NOT the date Discovery's production staff actually created the characters. We don't have the exact dates, but it was probably at least a year before the first Discovery episode aired.

03:00 Doesn't work like that. Multiple cases of vague similarity do not prove anything beyond the fact that both shows used disparate appearances for the characters. Also the tardigrade in Discovery ISN'T blue! So that's another factual inaccuracy in the video.

03:55 The allegation that CBS at some point offered to not sue Abdin, is dubious. Why? After getting ignored, some guy sends Abdin an email asking to talk over Skype, then DOESN'T say anything of any substance other than that vaguely threatening "offer" before promising to get in touch later... and not doing so. Was that even CBS? We don't know.

04:00 Wildly inaccurate description of the fan-film guidelines. CBS only sued Peters over Axanar. They were actually SUPPORTIVE of Continues. The difference is the amount of money Peters kept out of the fan donations for his personal "living expenses".

04:50 - 05:30 This a bunch of garbage unworthy of discussion.

06:07 As hate mail goes this is pretty tame. Also this is presented as coming from "a Star Trek: Discovery fan", however the person is actually just bashing Anas's game and said NOTHING about Discovery.

07:40 As mentioned earlier, Anas's case has run out of straws to grasp at and the judge basically told him to provide proof or else. So now Abdin is putting out a public request for evidence he can use in his case... because he doesn't have anything worthy of filing a lawsuit over.

09:00 this a a distortion of the truth. Just for starters, his point 1 is actually WRONG because all the court actually did was allow the discovery phase of the trial to start. It is not a "ruling" it was simply stating that the court wanted to see if Abdin could provide evidence more substantial than what he had in the filing. Which he hasn't and the court ordered him to provide proof that CBS knew of his game's existence. Which he is still franticly scrabbling to find.

10:30 This is presented as a discussion of fact, but isn't a discussion of fact at all. It's Abdin trying to make CBS look bad without any reason.

11:40 here we have a classic example of someone who doesn't understand IP law trying to argue a case. There's a big difference between vague concepts and specific characters. You can't say a character is "stolen" when the only similarity is "looks like a stereotypical Irish woman." But that's the foundation of Abdin's case, multiple instances of that level of similarity.

The case is IMO a PR smear campaign. It's been thrown around the internet more than the legal arena. That's not how you do things if you want justice.
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«134

Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    I'd have to agree. It almost sounds like someone's trying to copy Harmony Gold's war on Battletech to a degree. "Oh look! Similarities! LAWSUIT!"

    Honestly I'm getting sick of this coming up every once in a while being portrayed as "justice against The Man". There's nothing alike between the two! It would be like the guy behind Star Wars: The Clone Wars getting sued by CBS because DS9 had a "Clone War" as well, and that's flimsy because the Jem'Hadar aren't clones per se, but just genetically engineered soldiers.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I'd have to agree. It almost sounds like someone's trying to copy Harmony Gold's war on Battletech to a degree. "Oh look! Similarities! LAWSUIT!"

    Honestly I'm getting sick of this coming up every once in a while being portrayed as "justice against The Man". There's nothing alike between the two! It would be like the guy behind Star Wars: The Clone Wars getting sued by CBS because DS9 had a "Clone War" as well, and that's flimsy because the Jem'Hadar aren't clones per se, but just genetically engineered soldiers.

    I think big problem here is that many see this lawsuit less as means of justice and more as way to get Discovery off the air for the crime of not being the series they wanted.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    spiritborn wrote: »
    I think big problem here is that many see this lawsuit less as means of justice and more as way to get Discovery off the air for the crime of not being the series they wanted.

    Exactly. Its not about justice. Its a petty attack on something they feel doesn't belong, and thus will back anything that will destroy it.

    I personally respect people's opinions. Hell... I respect smoke's position in another thread. However that respect does get lost if I am repeatedly beat over the head with it. Smoke keeps it low key. Just saying something every once in a while. But anyone who tries to gatekeep and beats people over the head a lot in order to get them to conform to their way of thinking lose my respect.

    Many of the arguments against Discovery are mostly recycled from Enterprise and the Kelvin Timeline, with a few new ones added in. And we already have one Forumite who is against the upcomming Picard series just on the virtue of it being new and thus obviously gonna be garbage. And that is before we know anything that happens in the show at all.

    I just don't understand the hate honestly.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    spiritborn wrote: »
    I think big problem here is that many see this lawsuit less as means of justice and more as way to get Discovery off the air for the crime of not being the series they wanted.

    Exactly. Its not about justice. Its a petty attack on something they feel doesn't belong, and thus will back anything that will destroy it.

    I personally respect people's opinions. Hell... I respect smoke's position in another thread. However that respect does get lost if I am repeatedly beat over the head with it. Smoke keeps it low key. Just saying something every once in a while. But anyone who tries to gatekeep and beats people over the head a lot in order to get them to conform to their way of thinking lose my respect.

    Many of the arguments against Discovery are mostly recycled from Enterprise and the Kelvin Timeline, with a few new ones added in. And we already have one Forumite who is against the upcomming Picard series just on the virtue of it being new and thus obviously gonna be garbage. And that is before we know anything that happens in the show at all.

    I just don't understand the hate honestly.

    Where I loose all patience with those people is when I'm accused of dishonesty when not agreeing with them.

    You can dislike Discovery, I mean a lot of your enjoyment of the series depends on the character of Burnham and if you cannot connect with that character you might not like the series. That said when you start accusing people who could connect with character of being dishonest or "hating Star Trek" that crosses the line, from innocent differences of opinion to fanatism.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    Agreed.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,808 Arc User
    Sounds like a smear campaign to me
    NMXb2ph.png
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    • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,952 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      I'd have to agree. It almost sounds like someone's trying to copy Harmony Gold's war on Battletech to a degree. "Oh look! Similarities! LAWSUIT!"
      Harmony Gold's case was a lot better than this. Because FASA did really use Robotech designs (or whatever that franchise is called) for some of its mechs. But back then, they believe they had a license to do so, but Harmony Gold argued otherwise.

      Later on, the case gets thinner and thinner, as FASA and its successors produced new artwork that was inspired on the original ideas, but was decidely different. At that point we're slowly entering the "they have a black woman with hair as main character, that's clearly copying my idea", but they stil had more similarity, like "and their black woman has a scar over her right face in the shape of a 8, and my character has a scar on her forehead in the shape of an ∞) "

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    • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,929 Arc User
      spiritborn wrote: »
      I think big problem here is that many see this lawsuit less as means of justice and more as way to get Discovery off the air for the crime of not being the series they wanted.

      100% correct.

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    • tymerstotymersto Member Posts: 433 Arc User
      coldnapalm wrote: »
      Okay in the Harmony Gold case, if you think that was just similarities...yeah I don't think what you call similar really counts. The pheonix hawk and shadow hawk were straight up copes of the valkeries. The rifleman and archer was a copy of the ground mechs that defended the SDF1. If you are saying that the "similarities" in the Harmony Gold case is like this one...I'm sorry to say, you are saying that CBS did a BLATANT copy.

      As a BT fan, when it comes to the Unseen/Reseen/Classic Mechs, can you at least get their original series' inspirations right?
      SDF Macross:
      Valkyrie - BT Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie, and Stinger and Wasp LAMs
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    • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
      coldnapalm wrote: »
      rattler2 wrote: »
      I'd have to agree. It almost sounds like someone's trying to copy Harmony Gold's war on Battletech to a degree. "Oh look! Similarities! LAWSUIT!"
      Okay in the Harmony Gold case, if you think that was just similarities...yeah I don't think what you call similar really counts. The pheonix hawk and shadow hawk were straight up copes of the valkeries. The rifleman and archer was a copy of the ground mechs that defended the SDF1. If you are saying that the "similarities" in the Harmony Gold case is like this one...I'm sorry to say, you are saying that CBS did a BLATANT copy.
      Harmony Gold STARTED with a legit case, then went off the rails with stuff that wasn't.
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    • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
      azrael605 wrote: »
      Smoke and "her" agenda SMDH.

      At least smoke doesn't ramrod it down our throats every chance she gets. Just a blurb every once in a while.
      coldnapalm wrote: »
      Okay in the Harmony Gold case, if you think that was just similarities...yeah I don't think what you call similar really counts. The pheonix hawk and shadow hawk were straight up copes of the valkeries. The rifleman and archer was a copy of the ground mechs that defended the SDF1. If you are saying that the "similarities" in the Harmony Gold case is like this one...I'm sorry to say, you are saying that CBS did a BLATANT copy.

      The OLD mechs like the Marauder and Warhammer yes. But HG tried again when Battletech was released on PC, even going so far as saying an Atlas looked like an Armored Veritech. The ONLY thing they have in common is two arms, two legs, and a head. They look NOTHING alike. Hell... several of the mechs they targeted looked NOTHING like their stuff other than being a humanoid walking war machine of death. THAT is what I'm getting at.
      66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
      The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
      My criteria for "ramrodding" is basically doing it every chance they get, even if the subject is only remotely related to the subject they hate. Kinda like coldnapalm has been doing. That's more frequent than Smoke.

      While I do feel that Smoke's interests are more "stick it to the man", its still relatively tame compared to some other individuals on the forums.
      66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
      The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
      azrael605 wrote: »
      > @rattler2 said:
      > My criteria for "ramrodding" is basically doing it every chance they get, even if the subject is only remotely related to the subject they hate. Kinda like coldnapalm has been doing. That's more frequent than Smoke.
      >
      > While I do feel that Smoke's interests are more "stick it to the man", its still relatively tame compared to some other individuals on the forums.

      I have much more of a problem with smoke because of the stated fact that whether or not CBS actually did anything wrong "she" wants them to lose, just because they are a "big corporation". That kind of garbage has no business anywhere. It is injustice plain and simple, and no matter what subject someone may be "ramrodding" injustice is billions of times more offensive to me.
      It's the "Robin Hood" mentality but divorced from why Robin Hood was considered a hero.

      This was the period in English history right after the English nobility talked the king into taking the forests that used to (essentially) be public property, and making them the private property of the nobles. Thus forcing the peasants who made a living off the land to pay the nobility for what had previously been free.
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    • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,598 Arc User
      You are aware, Mark, that Robin Hood is a mythical figure, and the stories date from centuries later?

      I'm curious, Azrael. Why do you keep putting quotation marks around Smoke's preferred gender pronoun?
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    • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
      jonsills wrote: »
      You are aware, Mark, that Robin Hood is a mythical figure, and the stories date from centuries later?
      That's debatable, the important part is the social context behind the stories not whether Robin Hood was real.
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    • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
      azrael605 wrote: »
      > @jonsills said:
      > You are aware, Mark, that Robin Hood is a mythical figure, and the stories date from centuries later?
      >
      > I'm curious, Azrael. Why do you keep putting quotation marks around Smoke's preferred gender pronoun?

      Because I do not believe that smoke is female, or even transgender female.

      As for Robin Hood, there are multiple permutations of that name (such as Robyn Hod) recorded in documents dating to the era when the stories originated, centuries before King Richard the Lion Heart. If any of those individuals was ever Robin of Locksley is unknown. It may have even been the era's equivalent of John Doe.
      That or "Kilroy was here". IE a pseudonym used in an attempt to remain anonymous. we'll probably never know the exact specifics. But we do know the name was used in a variety of documents in several contexts.
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    • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,647 Arc User
      According to Wood's "Merrie Englande: the Legend of Robin Hood in In Search of England" the name "Robin Hood" was indeed a "John Doe", it was used to describe nameless criminals since the 13th century. Uprisings against the noble's policy of "owning" the forests and more importantly the hunt were frequent not only in England, for instance that's what led to the German Peasant War in the early 16th century.

      One interesting aspect of being a forest ecologist is that I took courses of forest history which were quite interesting pig-2.gif

      To stay remotely on topic, I agree that most of the support for this suit stem from people dissatisfied with Discovery and the course it took (I count myself among those, all in all. I like some of it). However I also think that there is no grounds to stand on and the person developing the Tardigrade game will probably horribly lose, driven by supporters that sacrifice himin an futile attempt to stick it to CBS.​​
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    • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
      angrytarg wrote: »
      According to Wood's "Merrie Englande: the Legend of Robin Hood in In Search of England" the name "Robin Hood" was indeed a "John Doe", it was used to describe nameless criminals since the 13th century. Uprisings against the noble's policy of "owning" the forests and more importantly the hunt were frequent not only in England, for instance that's what led to the German Peasant War in the early 16th century.

      One interesting aspect of being a forest ecologist is that I took courses of forest history which were quite interesting pig-2.gif

      To stay remotely on topic, I agree that most of the support for this suit stem from people dissatisfied with Discovery and the course it took (I count myself among those, all in all. I like some of it). However I also think that there is no grounds to stand on and the person developing the Tardigrade game will probably horribly lose, driven by supporters that sacrifice himin an futile attempt to stick it to CBS.​​

      You should write a film. 'The Legend of Robin Hood as seen through the trees'. It's the story of Sherwood forest between the 10th and 15th centuries and the various Robin's Hood that move through it.
      22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
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    • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 35,957 Arc User
      edited June 2019
      artan42 wrote: »
      angrytarg wrote: »
      According to Wood's "Merrie Englande: the Legend of Robin Hood in In Search of England" the name "Robin Hood" was indeed a "John Doe", it was used to describe nameless criminals since the 13th century. Uprisings against the noble's policy of "owning" the forests and more importantly the hunt were frequent not only in England, for instance that's what led to the German Peasant War in the early 16th century.

      One interesting aspect of being a forest ecologist is that I took courses of forest history which were quite interesting pig-2.gif

      To stay remotely on topic, I agree that most of the support for this suit stem from people dissatisfied with Discovery and the course it took (I count myself among those, all in all. I like some of it). However I also think that there is no grounds to stand on and the person developing the Tardigrade game will probably horribly lose, driven by supporters that sacrifice himin an futile attempt to stick it to CBS.​​

      You should write a film. 'The Legend of Robin Hood as seen through the trees'.

      Not being funny, but that sounds like a microhistory book (speaking as a history student).
    • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
      ryan218 wrote: »
      artan42 wrote: »
      angrytarg wrote: »
      According to Wood's "Merrie Englande: the Legend of Robin Hood in In Search of England" the name "Robin Hood" was indeed a "John Doe", it was used to describe nameless criminals since the 13th century. Uprisings against the noble's policy of "owning" the forests and more importantly the hunt were frequent not only in England, for instance that's what led to the German Peasant War in the early 16th century.

      One interesting aspect of being a forest ecologist is that I took courses of forest history which were quite interesting pig-2.gif

      To stay remotely on topic, I agree that most of the support for this suit stem from people dissatisfied with Discovery and the course it took (I count myself among those, all in all. I like some of it). However I also think that there is no grounds to stand on and the person developing the Tardigrade game will probably horribly lose, driven by supporters that sacrifice himin an futile attempt to stick it to CBS.

      You should write a film. 'The Legend of Robin Hood as seen through the trees'.

      Not being funny, but that sounds like a microhistory book (speaking as a history student).

      I have a book like that from the perspective of York throughout history. Or had, I've no clue where I've put it and I want to read it again.​​
      22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
      Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
      JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

      #TASforSTO


      '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
      'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
      'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
      '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
      'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
      '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 35,957 Arc User
      artan42 wrote: »
      ryan218 wrote: »
      artan42 wrote: »
      angrytarg wrote: »
      According to Wood's "Merrie Englande: the Legend of Robin Hood in In Search of England" the name "Robin Hood" was indeed a "John Doe", it was used to describe nameless criminals since the 13th century. Uprisings against the noble's policy of "owning" the forests and more importantly the hunt were frequent not only in England, for instance that's what led to the German Peasant War in the early 16th century.

      One interesting aspect of being a forest ecologist is that I took courses of forest history which were quite interesting pig-2.gif

      To stay remotely on topic, I agree that most of the support for this suit stem from people dissatisfied with Discovery and the course it took (I count myself among those, all in all. I like some of it). However I also think that there is no grounds to stand on and the person developing the Tardigrade game will probably horribly lose, driven by supporters that sacrifice himin an futile attempt to stick it to CBS.

      You should write a film. 'The Legend of Robin Hood as seen through the trees'.

      Not being funny, but that sounds like a microhistory book (speaking as a history student).

      I have a book like that from the perspective of York throughout history. Or had, I've no clue where I've put it and I want to read it again.​​

      Yeah, I've got a couple of Ipswich and Suffolk.
    • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,950 Arc User
      edited June 2019
      coldnapalm wrote: »
      rattler2 wrote: »
      I'd have to agree. It almost sounds like someone's trying to copy Harmony Gold's war on Battletech to a degree. "Oh look! Similarities! LAWSUIT!"
      Okay in the Harmony Gold case, if you think that was just similarities...yeah I don't think what you call similar really counts. The pheonix hawk and shadow hawk were straight up copes of the valkeries. The rifleman and archer was a copy of the ground mechs that defended the SDF1. If you are saying that the "similarities" in the Harmony Gold case is like this one...I'm sorry to say, you are saying that CBS did a BLATANT copy.
      Harmony Gold STARTED with a legit case, then went off the rails with stuff that wasn't.

      Actually, one of the things that came out in the two most recent iterations of Harmony Gold v. Everybody was that Harmony Gold may never have held a legitimate license to begin with (due to their licensor Tatsunoko not having had the right to license it). This led to the lawsuit against Piranha Games being dismissed with prejudice; the one against Harebrained Schemes and Paradox followed it into the grave shortly afterwards.
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    • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 35,957 Arc User
      starswordc wrote: »
      coldnapalm wrote: »
      rattler2 wrote: »
      I'd have to agree. It almost sounds like someone's trying to copy Harmony Gold's war on Battletech to a degree. "Oh look! Similarities! LAWSUIT!"
      Okay in the Harmony Gold case, if you think that was just similarities...yeah I don't think what you call similar really counts. The pheonix hawk and shadow hawk were straight up copes of the valkeries. The rifleman and archer was a copy of the ground mechs that defended the SDF1. If you are saying that the "similarities" in the Harmony Gold case is like this one...I'm sorry to say, you are saying that CBS did a BLATANT copy.
      Harmony Gold STARTED with a legit case, then went off the rails with stuff that wasn't.

      Actually, one of the things that came out in the two most recent iterations of Harmony Gold v. Everybody was that Harmony Gold may never have held a legitimate license to begin with (due to their licensor Tatsunoko not having had the right to license it). This led to the lawsuit against Piranha Games being dismissed with prejudice; the one against Harebrained Schemes and Paradox followed it into the grave shortly afterwards.

      Here's the funny thing: I'm a big fan of Paradox games, and this is the first I've heard of Harmony Gold suing 'em. They're that irrelevant.
    This discussion has been closed.