They should give them out one per Perk Point. A much better way to award them. However, we are stuck with them as is. And if you think about it, wanting more useful items, using one to redo one 'you don't feel like doing' may give you one that you would 'feel like doing' and hence get more of those useful rewards.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Lt. Philip J. Minns
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,373Community Moderator
Then why demand the removal of reroll tokens based on your dislike of them alone? Other people make use of them so why deny them?
When I read "Balance Personal Endeavors" I was totally expecting to see something about the discrepancy between Perk bonuses that seem to favor offense over defense.
As for the OP, I disagree. Space/ground distribution is fine. Reroll tokens are fine (and should remain as is).
As someone who hasn't missed a single PE so far, I'm not even complaining that I get Tzenkethi missions every single day. If it's just bad luck or their missions have more "weight" within the randomization system, I'll never know. I think they're the worst enemy in the game and I hate them so much. But it's fine since I can just reroll their asses goodbye (and wait for them to return the next day).
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,373Community Moderator
Everyone else is not saying to remove something outright. Honestly the Reroll tokens are no different than crafting mats or salvage. At least they're more useful than GPL is in game.
It'd be good if reroll tokens could also be used on a once per level basis to redo the options the RNG decides to spit out for spending the point on.
The randomness of the tasks does seem to be a lot fairer than the stacked deck feel of the reward box side, the majority of which doesn't feel rewarding in the slightest.
You say "Yes", I say "No". You say "Stop" and I say "Go, go, go". Oh no. You say "Goodbye" and I say "Hello, hello, hello". I don't know why you say "Goodbye", I say "Hello, hello, hello". I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello. I say "High", you say "Low". You say "Why?" And I say "I don't know". Oh no. You say "Goodbye" and I say "Hello, hello, hello". I don't know why you say "Goodbye", I say "Hello, hello, hello". (Hello, goodbye, hello, goodbye. Hello, goodbye.) I don't know why you say "Goodbye", I say "Hello"
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It would seem some people don't understand how "random" is supposed to work.
it doesn't seem "Random" when you get 4 crummy ground tasks. I HATE ground and always have. its why my ground builds are mediocre, save for my main, but my space builds are all decent.
> @ltminns said:
> Well, since these are 'Personal' Endeavors, to make them truly 'Personal', the Reroll Tokens should remain. Make it a matter of 'Personal' Honor to not use them if so inclined.
It has nothing to do with honor, that garbage is keeping me from getting useful stuff. If people absolutely must have them then put them in the progression system and give 1 every time you earn a perk point and get them out of the reward boxes.
Reroll tokens are not keeping you from getting useful stuff. They are on top of whatever rewards the Personal Endeavor Reward box would give you without them, not a replacement for one of them. If we removed Reroll tokens from being rewarded that way, you wouldn't suddenly start getting more Energy Credits or Dilithium Ore or whatever else.
Lately there has been a creeping increase of Space personal endeavors vs Ground. I don't hate space nor will stood as low as spewing nonsense as it was done by a former poster who wanted the opposite of this posting a while back.
However, there needs to be a balance from day to day and yes I could use a reroll token but WHY? I love doing endeavors and that is one of the new end game things that keep me coming back to STO.
Personally, I find it so much easier to swap a ground weapon in ONE hand (Plasma/Tetryon/Phaser) and deal X many of damage rather than to go to my ship...swap to another ship build and make sure I get ALL beams/torps/cannons/etc to do the same.
Ground endeavors are also so much quicker to do than their counterparts in space. At the very least Devs should try to balance this fairly close to 50:50.
I'm not ranting and made logical points in the interest to save players time in a daily basis so that they can do more endeavors or move on to other grinds as soon as humanly possible. Isn't it the whole idea for these tasks to be done fairly quick anyways?
Thanks!
Welcome to the RNG - I have TOO MANY ground ones. Wish it would let us state a preference.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
If you could set a preference, it kinda removes the whole idea of enticing players to play things they wouldn't normally do. Let's not forget the initial reason behind Endeavors to begin with was to drive players towards other content in the game beyond what they normally might do in a day.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
> @crypticspartan#0627 said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> > @ltminns said:
> > Well, since these are 'Personal' Endeavors, to make them truly 'Personal', the Reroll Tokens should remain. Make it a matter of 'Personal' Honor to not use them if so inclined.
>
> It has nothing to do with honor, that garbage is keeping me from getting useful stuff. If people absolutely must have them then put them in the progression system and give 1 every time you earn a perk point and get them out of the reward boxes.
>
>
>
>
> Reroll tokens are not keeping you from getting useful stuff. They are on top of whatever rewards the Personal Endeavor Reward box would give you without them, not a replacement for one of them. If we removed Reroll tokens from being rewarded that way, you wouldn't suddenly start getting more Energy Credits or Dilithium Ore or whatever else.
Fair enough spartan, thank you for that clarification, I appreciate it. I still fell those tokens are utterly useless, but it is good to know nonethelesd.
Its all about prospective. For me its the other away around the only thing of value is those tokens. Everything else is utterly useless and I just ignore. I don't even bother to open the box's unless I am in need of a token because there isn't anything else of value to get out of the box for me and there is no point hoarding tokens so I just open as needed.
If you could set a preference, it kinda removes the whole idea of enticing players to play things they wouldn't normally do. Let's not forget the initial reason behind Endeavors to begin with was to drive players towards other content in the game beyond what they normally might do in a day.
True enough. I'd like to see some numbers about this, though. I don't know what kind of data they are collecting, but if they do know what kind of content players like to play - not every player, just some raw numbers like "space STFs are played roughly 60% more than ground ones" - it'd be interesting to know if these endeavors are working.
I, for one, simply skip those that I don't like, if I don't feel like using a reroll token or I have none left to spend. You won't see me going into the Tzenkethi Battlezone no matter how much of a reward I can probably/possibly/more-likely-never get.
Also, with the rewards being as random as they are, people might just not bother going in for the hard (or even medium) endeavors, because they don't feel like spending X time to get practically nothing out of it.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Maybe having the option to select a preference for either ground or space, that'd be nice. I was doing random TFOs with a team last night, and I was the only one hoping for ground - everyone else was space spec'd only.
It's hard to make a balanced ground/space build for your captain and team, so it would definitely be nice if that preference could be selected. That way one loses out.
The correct way to spec your character IS to spec for space. Ground is easy. No seriously, it's stupid easy. Just make sure you've upgraded your ground gear and have an otherwise good ground setup. You don't need spec trees to make yourself good on ground. You don't even need the "correct" spec trees for advanced ground. If you don't know how to set it up, ask around reddit, the DPS channels, etc.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
There are a lot of different opinions in this thread. And even with only the handful of us posting, we can't get a consensus That probably speaks volumes about why there hasn't been an "oh ****" change to the Endeavours.
I'm definitely with Jenny above - I play the ones I want to play only. For me, I'm not likely to jump into a TFO I know I don't enjoy just for a quickie reward. Other than that, I'm usually game to try something I haven't done in some time. For example, I hit up Nukara a few times recently - haven't been there in literal years.
I think the way us as players need to approach this is just do what you enjoy, don't feel pressured to do everything all the time, and gain the incremental benefits however quickly or slowly they happen to accumulate. Guaranteed that Cryptic is measuring all the data behind the system, so I'm sure they'll adjust things if there's a clear trend in what players are and aren't doing.
@coldnapalm Go into 'Sphere of Influence' first Beam in. There is a node on the right, then go into the main chamber, there is a node on one of the platforms. Beam out, then in, do the two nodes again, out and in and you have your six.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Go into 'Sphere of Influence' first Beam in. There is a node on the right, then go into the main chamber, there is a node on one of the platforms. Beam out, then in, do the two nodes again, out and in and you have your six.
I use "Colf Comfort," but yeah that endo is piece of cake. Especially since all episodes now have free transwarps.
@coldnapalm
Go into 'Sphere of Influence' first Beam in. There is a node on the right, then go into the main chamber, there is a node on one of the platforms. Beam out, then in, do the two nodes again, out and in and you have your six.
I leave one character parked outside of Carraya for whenever I get that one. You get 2 each time you load onto the map. Just leave without firing a shot after you get your two R&D mats, then load back in. Rinse and repeat.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yep, but Japori is a little bit more of an irritation since you can't do it without flying into the middle of combat. In Carraya, you can just ignore the combatants.
@coldnapalm
Go into 'Sphere of Influence' first Beam in. There is a node on the right, then go into the main chamber, there is a node on one of the platforms. Beam out, then in, do the two nodes again, out and in and you have your six.
I leave one character parked outside of Carraya for whenever I get that one. You get 2 each time you load onto the map. Just leave without firing a shot after you get your two R&D mats, then load back in. Rinse and repeat.
Actually, any of the kill 5 group romulan patrols generate 2 SPACE nodes. The problem is when you get GROUND ones as they don't generate anymore.
I'm guessing by these two quotes that there's a different endeavor for space and ground material harvesting? If so, LOL. How stupid is it that such a distinction exists? I've skipped enough days of endeavors to have not ran into a ground version I guess. Also is this a known bug or is @ltminns disproving that?
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Well, I do Japori as it has three nodes and I also avoid combat. Go left and there are two nodes away from the combat and there is another on the right side also away. Two Warp in and outs and done. I will check Carraya though.
As to Ground, for 'Sphere of Influence' there are two nodes as I listed above and they do regenerate on any beam out/in. I leave the Episode in my Active Mission Objectives box and Transwarp there as needed.
I am doing almost all the Endeavors on my Discovery Character and don't have any other Character parked anywhere for it. I am spending almost all my time on that Character and only fire up another to do Tetryon, Anti-proton, or Polaron Space damage. Then other Characters will login in to do the Endeavor, deposit the Reward box, and log out. The Discovery Character will pick up the Endeavor Reward box.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
When you get Harvest Ground Materials on Hard it is six NODES. When you get it on Easy it is six MATERIALS.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I am doing almost all the Endeavors on my Discovery Character and don't have any other Character parked anywhere for it. I am spending almost all my time on that Character and only fire up another to do Tetryon, Anti-proton, or Polaron Space damage. Then other Characters will login in to do the Endeavor, deposit the Reward box, and log out. The Discovery Character will pick up the Endeavor Reward box.
I have every form of space damage preset on individual characters so I don't have to swap out any gear. I lucked into this as I wanted to have full sets of all weapon types years before the endeavor system started. After the endeavor system started, I made sure I had one weapon of each damage type for ground on my main since that's easy to swap out. Also all this gear is Mk XV gold. I also have a couple of characters parked here and there for some of the endeavors that I see more often. I have one parked at Nimbus, one at Nukara, one at DS9 and one at Carraya. I use transwarp for the rest like you.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Yep, but Japori is a little bit more of an irritation since you can't do it without flying into the middle of combat. In Carraya, you can just ignore the combatants.
Starbase 234 also has three nodes and you can avoid all combat simply by saying no to the hail.
Japori scanning can easily be done combat free if you fly to the right a shade instead of straight ahead after zoning in & the other two are so far off to the left you can't even see the fight going on.
Even when shaun turns up to kill steal or pets get deployed you can avoid red alerting with a few degrees difference.
@coldnapalm
Go into 'Sphere of Influence' first Beam in. There is a node on the right, then go into the main chamber, there is a node on one of the platforms. Beam out, then in, do the two nodes again, out and in and you have your six.
IIRC that will depend on which faction you are, the nodes are always in the same spots, your beam in point is depending on faction.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Can I recommend Diplomatic Orders for the nodes? Two ground on the first map (no combat), six space nodes on the second (and you can just not hail the klingons if you want to avoid fighting) and I think it's five (maybe six) ground nodes on the map after that (but with a good deal of klingon so you'll have to fight a bit, though it's so dead easy at 65 I feel it barely bears mentioning).
In all, you can do even hard (ground or space) in about 2 minutes or less.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
Of course! It's bugged, broken, or a cash grab if it doesn't give someone what they want immediately!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
As for the OP, I disagree. Space/ground distribution is fine. Reroll tokens are fine (and should remain as is).
As someone who hasn't missed a single PE so far, I'm not even complaining that I get Tzenkethi missions every single day. If it's just bad luck or their missions have more "weight" within the randomization system, I'll never know. I think they're the worst enemy in the game and I hate them so much. But it's fine since I can just reroll their asses goodbye (and wait for them to return the next day).
STO Screenshot Archive
The randomness of the tasks does seem to be a lot fairer than the stacked deck feel of the reward box side, the majority of which doesn't feel rewarding in the slightest.
You say "Stop" and I say "Go, go, go".
Oh no.
You say "Goodbye" and I say "Hello, hello, hello".
I don't know why you say "Goodbye", I say "Hello, hello, hello".
I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello.
I say "High", you say "Low".
You say "Why?" And I say "I don't know".
Oh no.
You say "Goodbye" and I say "Hello, hello, hello".
I don't know why you say "Goodbye", I say "Hello, hello, hello".
(Hello, goodbye, hello, goodbye. Hello, goodbye.)
I don't know why you say "Goodbye", I say "Hello"
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
it doesn't seem "Random" when you get 4 crummy ground tasks. I HATE ground and always have. its why my ground builds are mediocre, save for my main, but my space builds are all decent.
Reroll tokens are not keeping you from getting useful stuff. They are on top of whatever rewards the Personal Endeavor Reward box would give you without them, not a replacement for one of them. If we removed Reroll tokens from being rewarded that way, you wouldn't suddenly start getting more Energy Credits or Dilithium Ore or whatever else.
Welcome to the RNG - I have TOO MANY ground ones. Wish it would let us state a preference.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
If you could set a preference, it kinda removes the whole idea of enticing players to play things they wouldn't normally do.
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True enough. I'd like to see some numbers about this, though. I don't know what kind of data they are collecting, but if they do know what kind of content players like to play - not every player, just some raw numbers like "space STFs are played roughly 60% more than ground ones" - it'd be interesting to know if these endeavors are working.
I, for one, simply skip those that I don't like, if I don't feel like using a reroll token or I have none left to spend. You won't see me going into the Tzenkethi Battlezone no matter how much of a reward I can probably/possibly/more-likely-never get.
Also, with the rewards being as random as they are, people might just not bother going in for the hard (or even medium) endeavors, because they don't feel like spending X time to get practically nothing out of it.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
I'm definitely with Jenny above - I play the ones I want to play only. For me, I'm not likely to jump into a TFO I know I don't enjoy just for a quickie reward. Other than that, I'm usually game to try something I haven't done in some time. For example, I hit up Nukara a few times recently - haven't been there in literal years.
I think the way us as players need to approach this is just do what you enjoy, don't feel pressured to do everything all the time, and gain the incremental benefits however quickly or slowly they happen to accumulate. Guaranteed that Cryptic is measuring all the data behind the system, so I'm sure they'll adjust things if there's a clear trend in what players are and aren't doing.
Go into 'Sphere of Influence' first Beam in. There is a node on the right, then go into the main chamber, there is a node on one of the platforms. Beam out, then in, do the two nodes again, out and in and you have your six.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Agree, that's why you have the re-roll options when you have them available.
Anyhow I usually get a mix of Endeavors.
I leave one character parked outside of Carraya for whenever I get that one. You get 2 each time you load onto the map. Just leave without firing a shot after you get your two R&D mats, then load back in. Rinse and repeat.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yep, but Japori is a little bit more of an irritation since you can't do it without flying into the middle of combat. In Carraya, you can just ignore the combatants.
I'm guessing by these two quotes that there's a different endeavor for space and ground material harvesting? If so, LOL. How stupid is it that such a distinction exists? I've skipped enough days of endeavors to have not ran into a ground version I guess. Also is this a known bug or is @ltminns disproving that?
As to Ground, for 'Sphere of Influence' there are two nodes as I listed above and they do regenerate on any beam out/in. I leave the Episode in my Active Mission Objectives box and Transwarp there as needed.
I am doing almost all the Endeavors on my Discovery Character and don't have any other Character parked anywhere for it. I am spending almost all my time on that Character and only fire up another to do Tetryon, Anti-proton, or Polaron Space damage. Then other Characters will login in to do the Endeavor, deposit the Reward box, and log out. The Discovery Character will pick up the Endeavor Reward box.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I have every form of space damage preset on individual characters so I don't have to swap out any gear. I lucked into this as I wanted to have full sets of all weapon types years before the endeavor system started. After the endeavor system started, I made sure I had one weapon of each damage type for ground on my main since that's easy to swap out. Also all this gear is Mk XV gold. I also have a couple of characters parked here and there for some of the endeavors that I see more often. I have one parked at Nimbus, one at Nukara, one at DS9 and one at Carraya. I use transwarp for the rest like you.
Even when shaun turns up to kill steal or pets get deployed you can avoid red alerting with a few degrees difference.
IIRC that will depend on which faction you are, the nodes are always in the same spots, your beam in point is depending on faction.
Did the Sphere of Influence trick listed here.. done in a couple min. Couldn't be easier, beam in.. collect 2, beam out.. repeat.
In all, you can do even hard (ground or space) in about 2 minutes or less.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'