If they're allowed to use it....
They could just pass it off as an experimental escort version with a science slant, or a cheaper version of the prometheus without the MVAM.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
If they're allowed to use it....
They could just pass it off as an experimental escort version with a science slant, or a cheaper version of the prometheus without the MVAM.
or just a fed version of the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
The Intrepid had 13 phaser arrays and 5 torpedo launchers. Again, where is it going to keep the torpedo supply for 30 launchers with the limited space they have? And between a torpedo supply large enough to supply an entire fleet of Voyagers and a population of troops over double the size of the crew of the real Voyager, where are they going to keep a wing of fighters and assault drones?
No, Voyager has been seen firing phasers from 18 weapons. Of which one was on the right nacelle which implies a matching un-fired weapon on the left one for 19. It has been seen firing torpedoes from 5 positions standard, plus the side-mount tubes installed for "Scorpion." The forward launchers have fired multiple tubes, I don't recall if the rear and ventral launchers are seen firing multiples or only singles. The total number of tubes is unspecified.
Sorry, the Voyager model has exactly 13 phaser arrays and 5 torpedo launchers. You seem to have been counting sfx mistakes and multiple shots from the same array and getting more weapons than the ship actually has.
If a weapon is fired on screen, it exists. And we're still not talking about torpedo LAUNCHERS, but torpedo TUBES.
Again, the size of torpedo storage was never mentioned for either the real or the fictional Voyager. The number of shuttles was not mentioned for either version (although 10-17 shuttles were lost during Voyager's run through the DQ, they may have built some of them midway like they did the Delta Flyer, rather than bring them all with them from the beginning). Twice the normal crew would just be a matter of putting in bunks instead of single beds in the absurdly spacious crew quarters, something that any reasonably war-focused operator would do as standard.
Where do you get this idea that Voyager had limited space anyway? According to Memory-Alpha, the Intrepid is 344m long with 15 decks. A crew of about 150 is extremely small for a ship that size (I mean come on, that's 10 people per deck). That's why they can have those luxurious private quarters, huge empty corridors and everything. They could even spare 7 of 9 a whole cargo bay all to herself. The kyrians assumed a slightly less...frivolous usage for all that room.
A real life aircraft carrier of that size would have a crew of thousands and nearly 100 aircraft.
The original number of torpedoes wasn't specified (The Cloud said they have only have 38 available torpedoes 6 episodes into the series and can't replace them), but the ship only has so much space in it and the crew mentioning their inability to replace them says they have to store them somewhere as that means they weren't making them on the fly.
The more space you fill up, the less you have left to use. Fill up the ship with torpedoes and you force. Just 2 volleys from 30 launchers would be 60 torpedoes gone, at minimum, and the ship would deplete its supplies extremely fast unless that had a lot of them. They would need to devote a lot of space to storing them and reduce the space left for everything else. Shuttles and fighters are the same, except they'd need a lot more space than torpedoes (they'd need more storage space per craft and the facilities to support them).
Yeah, sure, ignore everything I say, that works well.
Who would disprove it; the Voyager crew who had been dead for centuries or the people who were born centuries after Voyager left? The entire reason the curator of the museum was so hostile was because that was their history; they were being serious with "The Voyager Encounter".
And nobody would've taken it seriously if the setup wasn't reasonably possible.
You clearly don't know how dumb people can be, even WITH facts available and an education. The real-life existence of breatharians, urine therapy and bible literalists should tell you just how wrong that view is...
Of course there's a reason to make an impossible number of weapons; the story got distorted and exaggerated over time, as legends typically do when they survive for long enough without accurate data.
The ship wasn't built on legends, they had original data, that's how they got the backup Doctor as well. It just wasn't entirely complete, so they had to make some educated guesses with some details. And since they assumed it was a warship those guesses tended to be combat-oriented.
That's how legends work; you start with a basic bit of knowledge, which then grows and distorted over time as people twist the facts, adding their own ideas and (whether intentional or not) 'revising' history. End result of centuries of such misinformation and fabrication is a story with little more than a superficial similarity to the original.
There were no centuries, no people doing anything. The simulation was based on data from artefacts they had recently found, same as the Doctor's backup. Do at least watch the episode before arguing about it.
The fake Voyager was in fact very well accurate physical design, with just some extra bits and bobs on the hull, and the interior lighting being darker. Same for all the people shown, all of them had accurate appearance except for odd details like Chakotay's wrong tattoo and 7 of 9 having all her borg stuff on. What they had largely made up was the behavior and actions of the crew.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
There were no centuries, no people doing anything. The simulation was based on data from artefacts they had recently found, same as the Doctor's backup. Do at least watch the episode before arguing about it.
Reactivated after lying inactive for seven hundred years, a backup version of The Doctor tries to uncover the truth about war crimes supposedly committed by Voyager when they passed a planet centuries ago.
That is the VERY FIRST line acting as a summary on the episode Living Witness, episode 23 season 4.
There were no centuries, no people doing anything. The simulation was based on data from artefacts they had recently found, same as the Doctor's backup. Do at least watch the episode before arguing about it.
Reactivated after lying inactive for seven hundred years, a backup version of The Doctor tries to uncover the truth about war crimes supposedly committed by Voyager when they passed a planet centuries ago.
That is the VERY FIRST line acting as a summary on the episode Living Witness, episode 23 season 4.
Clearly states 700 years have passed since Voyager was in that region of space.
<sigh> Do I have to pull out the Picard facepalm meme.
When Voyager was there != when the items were found.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
Voyager was encounted 700 years ago as well, which means they would have records of the encounter. They just altered them to suit a particular narative. How else could they have identified ANYTHING as being from Voyager specifically? Its not like a Tricorder has a USS Voyager lable on it.
If they were found recently without ANY context... they could have come from any starship. Yet they specifically stated they were from Voyager, a ship that passed through 700 years earlier.
Also... the ONLY thing stated to have been recovered recently was The Doctor's backup module, which was thought to contain log entries from the crew, which indicates they had other artifacts much longer, especially if they had enough information, albet heavily distorted, to recreate Voyager the way they did. Archaeological recreations don't happen overnight.
Voyager was encounted 700 years ago as well, which means they would have records of the encounter. They just altered them to suit a particular narative. How else could they have identified ANYTHING as being from Voyager specifically? Its not like a Tricorder has a USS Voyager lable on it.
If they were found recently without ANY context... they could have come from any starship. Yet they specifically stated they were from Voyager, a ship that passed through 700 years earlier.
Also... the ONLY thing stated to have been recovered recently was The Doctor's backup module, which was thought to contain log entries from the crew, which indicates they had other artifacts much longer, especially if they had enough information, albet heavily distorted, to recreate Voyager the way they did. Archaeological recreations don't happen overnight.
We don't know they when the artifacts were discovered, or how they identified them as being from Voyager specifically. That doesn't matter. The point is the simulation is based on original data from Voyager, not "legends." And that data is mostly correct until we get to the minute details.
Yes, they did assume Voyager was a warship and the way they filled in the details they were missing is influenced by that. But the result is a generally plausible estimate of what an Intrepid-class might be like if geared for combat, not some cartoonish caricature based on centuries-old hearsay.
And honestly? The Rhode Island only had minor visual differences and some general performance enhancements - but it had nothing as outlandish as a third nacelle or several omegamegabeam cannons attached to it.
Just like Warship Voyager.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
edited December 2018
Uh... I wouldn't call everything attached to Warship Voyager "minor".
I'd say the changes are comparable to those between the Galaxy and Galaxy-X. I wouldn't be surprised if that thing on the saucer over the secondary deflector was a Galaxy-X Phaser Lance!
Uh... I wouldn't call everything attached to Warship Voyager "minor".
I'd say the changes are comparable to those between the Galaxy and Galaxy-X. I wouldn't be surprised if that thing on the saucer over the secondary deflector was a Galaxy-X Phaser Lance!
The additions to the physical model are various boxy and triangley bits and bobs. Mostly of unknown purpose, except the two turret-looking things in front of the bridge which turn out to be, unsurprisingly, phaser turrets. Using high-resolution fan art to try to make the ships look more different isn't a particularly useful comparison.
It's just a bumpy Intrepid. We can imagine those bumps to be Death Star superlasers for all the difference that makes, which is none.
Although in the context of STO, a lance weapon wouldn't be at all out of place on a Tactical Intrepid, either. We already have escorts with lance weapons as it is. However, since it would be natural for it's console to be the Assault Probes we hear of in the mission, there is little need to give it a non-canon lance weapon.
Voyager was encounted 700 years ago as well, which means they would have records of the encounter. They just altered them to suit a particular narative. How else could they have identified ANYTHING as being from Voyager specifically? Its not like a Tricorder has a USS Voyager lable on it.
I am going to go against you here, on the last part...
We know for a fact, that rank-insignias and/or commbadge from Voyager had microscopic name-tags clearly identifying them as belonging to Voyager.
If something as insignificant and ultimately unreadable can be found on such items, I don't think it's unreasonable to find ID tags on things like PADD's, Phasers and Tricorders.
Post edited by anazonda on
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that anything replicated on a starship would be imprinted with an ID for said ship and even the individual replicator, as well as a personal ID for whoever replicated it. Consider a replicated part failing, you'd want to make sure that the replicator wasn't at fault or repair a faulty replicator, likewise with potential sabotage, you'd want to know who replicated it.
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There's also the fact you'd want to know that who used what and how much. It wouldn't surprice me at all if most Starfleet hardware had ID "chips" as part of their construction. In DSC it's shown that insignia badge has the name and ship of the person it belongs to printed on them in visible text. So it's not unreasonble to assume that in the 100+ since Starfleet wouldn't have the same information only in a different form on their current hardware.
If they make a tactical varient of the Intrepid they should simply follow the same design philosophy as the Galaxy-X and add a third nacelle. There are fan versions I've seen of an Intrepid-X with a third nacelle, won't neccesarily look like the 'warship voyager' but can still pack a punch. Imagine what a Sovereign-X with a third nacelle could do...
There is "no reason in canon" for 90% of our ship rosters to exist. There is no reason for the Alliance to produce a bazillion different ship designs at once, to say nothing of the frivolous 25th century replicas of historical ships going back all the way to the 22nd. There is no reason for them to appropriate off-faction ships from everyone and the kitchen sink, especially exotic aliens like undine that would probably take more work to make flyable than building a normal ship from scratch. No reason for ships made by 3rd world aliens-of-the-week to be able to match the best of the Alliance or conversely hypertech from the far future or races like the iconians to not be ridiculously OP.
We have all these ships because Cryptic wanted to sell them to us. And we will have Warship Voyager if and when Cryptic wants to sell it to us. Whatever excuse they write to explain it's existence to be seen.
It wouldn't even be the first ship Cryptic's Starfleet defictionalized...see also: Dauntless class. And future ships we have by the dozens.
I do not care one bit about some "Warship Voyager", but I agree with this.
There is little reason for the Federation to have the variety of ships that they have in the game, less reason why they would be retrofitting antiques to add to that number, and zero reason for them to be having their officers flying around in non-member ships, let alone enemy ships, to say nothing of the various "future" ships and the Kelvin timeline stuff.
There is, however, a reason for Cryptic to put all of these ships into the game.
Warp, rewatch the episode, Voyager was involved in a planetary civil war, after the war the victors villainized Voyager which became the narrative over the next 700 years. The artifacts, including the doctor's backup copy, were recently discovered by archeologists and their very existence was causing riots. The way you argue it like all you know about the episode is the name.
I don't recall if I ever saw this episode in question, but I seem to remember reading in a review that Warship Voyager was fabrication of the ruling class in the planet to justify either a war or oppression (I can't remember which atm) and thus you probably wouldn't have much details on it anyway as all it needs to be is a "big scary ship".
So it was less of a case of "mistook Voyager for a warship" (which is easy if relatively harmless mistake to make) and more of intentional distorsion of facts to suite the agenda the ruling class was driving (them being the indirect villains of the episode), which would give even less motivation for the Doctor (or his back-up module to be exact) to give any details to anyone even if there was any to give.
It's not difficult, simply put it in-game and say it's a Terran ship that coincidentally looks exactly like Warship Voyager.
The Terrans are more or less completely isolated from the prime universe and still managed to make identical ships like the Walker, Crossfield, Peregrin, and BoPs. This way you get a heavily greebled Intrepid that just so happens to look identical to Warship Voyage without having to do any silly explanations for it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It's not difficult, simply put it in-game and say it's a Terran ship that coincidentally looks exactly like Warship Voyager.
The Terrans are more or less completely isolated from the prime universe and still managed to make identical ships like the Walker, Crossfield, Peregrin, and BoPs. This way you get a heavily greebled Intrepid that just so happens to look identical to Warship Voyage without having to do any silly explanations for it.
Doesn't even need to use the Terran excuse, really. It really is just a bumpy Intrepid and doesn't necessarily need any more explanations for it than a variant of Intrepid. It's appearance could even be unlocked for the normal Intrepid.
But I do imagine Cryptic would want to put in a reference to Warship Voyager in the description anyway, to note its canon origins to people who may not have seen the episode. Much like they did with the Dauntless and the Galaxy-X.
Comments
They could just pass it off as an experimental escort version with a science slant, or a cheaper version of the prometheus without the MVAM.
or just a fed version of the Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Yeah, sure, ignore everything I say, that works well.
The real Voyager is almost all empty space.
And who takes them seriously besides themselves?
There were no centuries, no people doing anything. The simulation was based on data from artefacts they had recently found, same as the Doctor's backup. Do at least watch the episode before arguing about it.
The fake Voyager was in fact very well accurate physical design, with just some extra bits and bobs on the hull, and the interior lighting being darker. Same for all the people shown, all of them had accurate appearance except for odd details like Chakotay's wrong tattoo and 7 of 9 having all her borg stuff on. What they had largely made up was the behavior and actions of the crew.
Um... it wasn't a recent discovery.
That is the VERY FIRST line acting as a summary on the episode Living Witness, episode 23 season 4.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)
Clearly states 700 years have passed since Voyager was in that region of space.
When Voyager was there != when the items were found.
If they were found recently without ANY context... they could have come from any starship. Yet they specifically stated they were from Voyager, a ship that passed through 700 years earlier.
Also... the ONLY thing stated to have been recovered recently was The Doctor's backup module, which was thought to contain log entries from the crew, which indicates they had other artifacts much longer, especially if they had enough information, albet heavily distorted, to recreate Voyager the way they did. Archaeological recreations don't happen overnight.
Yes, they did assume Voyager was a warship and the way they filled in the details they were missing is influenced by that. But the result is a generally plausible estimate of what an Intrepid-class might be like if geared for combat, not some cartoonish caricature based on centuries-old hearsay.
I'd say the changes are comparable to those between the Galaxy and Galaxy-X. I wouldn't be surprised if that thing on the saucer over the secondary deflector was a Galaxy-X Phaser Lance!
It's just a bumpy Intrepid. We can imagine those bumps to be Death Star superlasers for all the difference that makes, which is none.
Although in the context of STO, a lance weapon wouldn't be at all out of place on a Tactical Intrepid, either. We already have escorts with lance weapons as it is. However, since it would be natural for it's console to be the Assault Probes we hear of in the mission, there is little need to give it a non-canon lance weapon.
I am going to go against you here, on the last part...
We know for a fact, that rank-insignias and/or commbadge from Voyager had microscopic name-tags clearly identifying them as belonging to Voyager.
If something as insignificant and ultimately unreadable can be found on such items, I don't think it's unreasonable to find ID tags on things like PADD's, Phasers and Tricorders.
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I do not care one bit about some "Warship Voyager", but I agree with this.
There is little reason for the Federation to have the variety of ships that they have in the game, less reason why they would be retrofitting antiques to add to that number, and zero reason for them to be having their officers flying around in non-member ships, let alone enemy ships, to say nothing of the various "future" ships and the Kelvin timeline stuff.
There is, however, a reason for Cryptic to put all of these ships into the game.
So it was less of a case of "mistook Voyager for a warship" (which is easy if relatively harmless mistake to make) and more of intentional distorsion of facts to suite the agenda the ruling class was driving (them being the indirect villains of the episode), which would give even less motivation for the Doctor (or his back-up module to be exact) to give any details to anyone even if there was any to give.
The Terrans are more or less completely isolated from the prime universe and still managed to make identical ships like the Walker, Crossfield, Peregrin, and BoPs. This way you get a heavily greebled Intrepid that just so happens to look identical to Warship Voyage without having to do any silly explanations for it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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But I do imagine Cryptic would want to put in a reference to Warship Voyager in the description anyway, to note its canon origins to people who may not have seen the episode. Much like they did with the Dauntless and the Galaxy-X.