> @jonsills said: > sophlogimo wrote: » > > And why, oh why on Earth a "cover identity"? I WANT TO PLAY AS THIS GUY, THAT'S WHY I CREATED HIM! Being thrown into the future isn't THAT unusual in Starfleet, technically it isn't even time travel. Why can't we just be ourselves, with everybody nodding and saying "it is fortunate that you survived after all. Your performance at the defense of Starbase 1 is still Academy teaching material"? > > > > Because being thrown into the future IS unusual. Remember, your toon is the only one experiencing all this, so you're the only person who's been rescued from death by Daniels and recruited into his service. (The idea is similar to the method used by the two sides in Fritz Lieber's "Change War" stories, written back in the late '50s, where recruits were taken from the ranks of those who were about to die, so their removal from the timeline wouldn't affect anything else.) > > You were chosen because you died in a fashion that didn't leave a corpse. Changing that information could result in unacceptable changes to the timeline; the entire purpose of Daniels' organization, after all, is to ensure that temporal operatives of various factions don't **** up history and make their future cease to exist (apparently, it's the best outcome of all the timelines they've investigated). They can't stop all the changes, which is why the "information packet" in the most recent blog posting notes that you may find discrepancies between official historical records and what you can remember them saying before. The concept is similar to a throwaway bit in David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself, where the protagonist accidentally dropped a Coke bottle while visiting Herculaneum before the volcano, then found that President Robert Kennedy had ordered a crash program to investigate the possibility of time travel after archaeologists found it, so he had to go back and talk himself out of killing Sirhan Sirhan.
Actually you didn't die in the dsc storyline, you were transported to the future by the Klingon weapon, Daniels just sort of intercepted you and recruited you to help sort out the mess of everyone else that was present also being transported to the future.
> @jonsills said:
> sophlogimo wrote: »
>
> And why, oh why on Earth a "cover identity"? I WANT TO PLAY AS THIS GUY, THAT'S WHY I CREATED HIM! Being thrown into the future isn't THAT unusual in Starfleet, technically it isn't even time travel. Why can't we just be ourselves, with everybody nodding and saying "it is fortunate that you survived after all. Your performance at the defense of Starbase 1 is still Academy teaching material"?
>
>
>
> Because being thrown into the future IS unusual. Remember, your toon is the only one experiencing all this, so you're the only person who's been rescued from death by Daniels and recruited into his service. (The idea is similar to the method used by the two sides in Fritz Lieber's "Change War" stories, written back in the late '50s, where recruits were taken from the ranks of those who were about to die, so their removal from the timeline wouldn't affect anything else.)
>
> You were chosen because you died in a fashion that didn't leave a corpse. Changing that information could result in unacceptable changes to the timeline; the entire purpose of Daniels' organization, after all, is to ensure that temporal operatives of various factions don't **** up history and make their future cease to exist (apparently, it's the best outcome of all the timelines they've investigated). They can't stop all the changes, which is why the "information packet" in the most recent blog posting notes that you may find discrepancies between official historical records and what you can remember them saying before. The concept is similar to a throwaway bit in David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself, where the protagonist accidentally dropped a Coke bottle while visiting Herculaneum before the volcano, then found that President Robert Kennedy had ordered a crash program to investigate the possibility of time travel after archaeologists found it, so he had to go back and talk himself out of killing Sirhan Sirhan.
Actually you didn't die in the dsc storyline, you were transported to the future by the Klingon weapon, Daniels just sort of intercepted you and recruited you to help sort out the mess of everyone else that was present also being transported to the future.
You only die in the TOS storyline
You were picked up by Daniels before you could die - that's why you wake up in his temporal observatory. According to history you died, and if he hadn't intervened you probably would have. In the TOS storyline, you were killed fighting a rearguard action so the rest of the fleet could escape ambush; in the DSC storyline, you were killed by the mycelial weapon tearing apart local spacetime. (For an example of what should have happened to you, I refer you to the DSC episode where they found the crew of the Glenn. Being killed by Ripper might have been a mercy at that point...)
Because you are not from this universe, you are an anomaly.
And yes, you got a "Cover Identity", but it is actually all you in there, just with altered dates and places.
You went to school with the rest in our timeline, did the things you did in our time line, much covered up as Covert Ops or so, maybe Section 666, or whatever.
It is still you, you got your name still, your qualifications, ranks, just... Borgified (read: adapted).
Thus, you are actually you, your past is besides dates you, you are only in a different reality now.
Discovery is prime universe. Get over it.
Then please tell me where all the bloody inconsistencies come from?
Santa Claus???
Klingons don't get drunk.
They just get less sober.
Because you are not from this universe, you are an anomaly.
And yes, you got a "Cover Identity", but it is actually all you in there, just with altered dates and places.
You went to school with the rest in our timeline, did the things you did in our time line, much covered up as Covert Ops or so, maybe Section 666, or whatever.
It is still you, you got your name still, your qualifications, ranks, just... Borgified (read: adapted).
Thus, you are actually you, your past is besides dates you, you are only in a different reality now.
Discovery is prime universe. Get over it.
Then please tell me where all the bloody inconsistencies come from?
Santa Claus???
Where do the other inconsistencies in Star Trek come from?
It worked better for the story they were writing now to do things differently than they were done in a story written before.
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The Discovery may be a sci-fi series, possibly even a good one, but - for Continuity's and CANON'S sake - do not call it a Star Trek.
Only because the creators became so arrogant or so impotent that they cannot come up with anything new and creative within the canon's frame, we have those silly experiments, like Jar Jar Abram's Kelvin Timeline or... the Discovery. It's like spitting on the already existing and well established lore.
I have only seen clips of Discovery on YouTube. I refuse to pay for Yet Another Streaming Service so I did not have the opportunity to see Discovery in full. What I did see reminded me more of the Battlestar Galactica reboot than Star Trek.
If the creators want to call it canon, I can't argue. Call it Prime Universe? Sure. Just a way different tone and outlook from what I'm used to for Star Trek.
You were picked up by Daniels before you could die - that's why you wake up in his temporal observatory. According to history you died, and if he hadn't intervened you probably would have.
From what do you conclude this? All he sais is you've been catapulted into the 25th century, along with a few other ships (such as the IKS Lukara, which supposedly is somewhere out there and needs to be found). So no, you don't die. You're simply in the relatively far future. Which happens all the time in Starfleet (USS Bozeman, for an on-screen example that isn't the hero ship).
We could simply emerge with our ship in the new era, hail Starfleet command and report for duty. Done. Daniels isn't really needed here, and a cover identity is totally, utterly, fully unnecessary and frankly bothers me by reigning in what should be MY domain, not the game's.
(Besides, it is risky: What if someone finds out who I really am? Why take that risk by doing unnecessary work? Why tell more lies than you need to? That's secret service 101: Only lie when you have to, so there are fewer chances to be found out.)
To play the devil's advocate here, Starfleet lost three ships at the fall of Starbase One, in addition to the losses suffered at the station itself. Downfall was Cyptic's take on that battle, with the player's ship being one of the three that fought to defend the station.
Your ship getting "pulled" into the 25th Century was just one of those instances of gameplay taking precedence over story. You have to make some allowances for that. But I do agree with some critics that this same-old, same-old mess in TRIBBLE felt rushed and lazy.
> @kurzis said: > > @jonsills said: > > sophlogimo wrote: » > > > > And why, oh why on Earth a "cover identity"? I WANT TO PLAY AS THIS GUY, THAT'S WHY I CREATED HIM! Being thrown into the future isn't THAT unusual in Starfleet, technically it isn't even time travel. Why can't we just be ourselves, with everybody nodding and saying "it is fortunate that you survived after all. Your performance at the defense of Starbase 1 is still Academy teaching material"? > > > > > > > > Because being thrown into the future IS unusual. Remember, your toon is the only one experiencing all this, so you're the only person who's been rescued from death by Daniels and recruited into his service. (The idea is similar to the method used by the two sides in Fritz Lieber's "Change War" stories, written back in the late '50s, where recruits were taken from the ranks of those who were about to die, so their removal from the timeline wouldn't affect anything else.) > > > > You were chosen because you died in a fashion that didn't leave a corpse. Changing that information could result in unacceptable changes to the timeline; the entire purpose of Daniels' organization, after all, is to ensure that temporal operatives of various factions don't **** up history and make their future cease to exist (apparently, it's the best outcome of all the timelines they've investigated). They can't stop all the changes, which is why the "information packet" in the most recent blog posting notes that you may find discrepancies between official historical records and what you can remember them saying before. The concept is similar to a throwaway bit in David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself, where the protagonist accidentally dropped a Coke bottle while visiting Herculaneum before the volcano, then found that President Robert Kennedy had ordered a crash program to investigate the possibility of time travel after archaeologists found it, so he had to go back and talk himself out of killing Sirhan Sirhan. > > Actually you didn't die in the dsc storyline, you were transported to the future by the Klingon weapon, Daniels just sort of intercepted you and recruited you to help sort out the mess of everyone else that was present also being transported to the future. > > You only die in the TOS storyline >
Actually and I can't believe I'm defending said person but Daniels did say that after the battle your character is listed KIA.
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> @azrael605 said: > Same complaints, to the letter, that people made about TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, etc. None of them mattered then, they don't matter now, and they will not matter in the future. The franchise owners make all decisions of what is or isn't canon. I don't like Sisko, other than Archer he's the worst captain in the entire franchise, both are canon regardless of my feelings on it. Just as the Kelvin Timeline and Discovery are canon regardless of anyone else's feelings about it.
And I personally think Sisko is the BEST captain. Simply for one fact alone.
He had the utter gonads to punch Q right square in the face and not give one solitary Frak he did it.
And when the beams are flying and stuff is going to hell in a hand basket, there's noone better.
Picard is the better diplomat, Kirk is the best explorer, Sisko is the best war leader.
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Because you are not from this universe, you are an anomaly.
And yes, you got a "Cover Identity", but it is actually all you in there, just with altered dates and places.
You went to school with the rest in our timeline, did the things you did in our time line, much covered up as Covert Ops or so, maybe Section 666, or whatever.
It is still you, you got your name still, your qualifications, ranks, just... Borgified (read: adapted).
Thus, you are actually you, your past is besides dates you, you are only in a different reality now.
Discovery is prime universe. Get over it.
Then please tell me where all the bloody inconsistencies come from?
Santa Claus???
@kiksken , officially in universe, the inconsistencies for Discovery do not exist. Star Trek: Discovery is for all intents and purposes a visual reboot. Let's recap what they've given new visuals for.
- Star Trek Uniforms: The Discovery Uniforms are much different than the ones used on the original pilot, which we know was set in 2254. Discovery starts just 2 years after it.
- Starfleet Ships: Ships look a lot different compared to what was the style used in the 60s, but that's because production values have increased. Also compared to TOS which was on a smaller budget and thus didn't create as many ships for TOS, so in those days, we were treated with almost every Starfleet ship as a Constitution era class ship, or that the Klingons and Romulans used one to two models of ship for the time. Discovery matches later series that they would have more than just one particular class of ship for a service branch of the Federation that is in charge of defending it.
- Interiors: While we know what the interiors looked like between the 1st and 2nd pilots of TOS, another major criticism that Discovery gets is that the interiors do not look like the TOS ones. Again, this is due to the production value of the show. They didn't want TOS interiors, they wanted stuff that looks like we would be using in the future.
- Klingons: The biggest inconsistency we've seen mentioned is how radically different the Klingons look compared to either TOS or even Enterprise or later series. Part of this stems from the creators wanting the Klingons to be ridged. (In TOS, they were supposed to have been ridged, but there was a limit as to what they could do for makeup at the time for the show). As we know from Season 1, the Klingons went bald, but for Season 2 they added hair to the Klingon heads, so that they now are closer to the Klingon style most will remember, while keeping the reimagined look.
- Klingon ships: This is another inconsistency that I felt I should address since there's been mixed emotions here about the ships. As we know in TOS and later series, including STO, Klingon ships tend to follow a pretty similar uniform design choice. However the ships in Discovery do not follow a consistent pattern. It could be explained in universe that because the Great Houses were doing their own things, the ship classes were all different because they were designed by the various houses. (Out of universe, they just wanted radically different designs for Klingons).
Look, if you don't want to accept Discovery as canon with the rest of the star trek universe, you have a right to. Just don't expect everyone else to follow along with your opinion.
You were picked up by Daniels before you could die - that's why you wake up in his temporal observatory. According to history you died, and if he hadn't intervened you probably would have.
From what do you conclude this? All he sais is you've been catapulted into the 25th century, along with a few other ships (such as the IKS Lukara, which supposedly is somewhere out there and needs to be found). So no, you don't die. You're simply in the relatively far future. Which happens all the time in Starfleet (USS Bozeman, for an on-screen example that isn't the hero ship).
We could simply emerge with our ship in the new era, hail Starfleet command and report for duty. Done. Daniels isn't really needed here, and a cover identity is totally, utterly, fully unnecessary and frankly bothers me by reigning in what should be MY domain, not the game's.
(Besides, it is risky: What if someone finds out who I really am? Why take that risk by doing unnecessary work? Why tell more lies than you need to? That's secret service 101: Only lie when you have to, so there are fewer chances to be found out.)
To play the devil's advocate here, Starfleet lost three ships at the fall of Starbase One, in addition to the losses suffered at the station itself. Downfall was Cyptic's take on that battle, with the player's ship being one of the three that fought to defend the station.
Your ship getting "pulled" into the 25th Century was just one of those instances of gameplay taking precedence over story. You have to make some allowances for that. But I do agree with some critics that this same-old, same-old mess in TRIBBLE felt rushed and lazy.
To be clear: I have no issue with the forward time travel at all. We need to be where the game's content is, after all. I have trouble with the whole notion of requiring a "cover identity". So why do I have a scalable starship, if it was destroyed at StarBase 1? Why would I be the one commanding it?
WHY NOT CHOOSE THE MUCH SIMPLER SOLUTION OF BEING CATAPULTED FORWARD IN TIME JUST OPENLY, WITHOUT COVER IDENTITIES OR SUCH NONSENSE?
To better integrate it into existing stories, specifically the AOY stuff.
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Freighter we rescue, captain sounded like he was trying to mimic mark hamill's joker. The colony of "moyna's" full of bad aussie accents.
Being told to go to full impulse but being locked because some klingon off in the distance (the reason for full impulse being needed) is talking to us.
Checking the box to disable popups doesn't actually disable popups.
Inconsistent weapons during cutscenes, only rifle we're offered at the start is the sniper yet we're shown using a rapidly firing rifle. During the moyne doorbreach we've suddenly decided to use a pistol.
Pretty generic and lazy rehash of existing tutorials which makes me wonder how much cbs actually paid to shoehorn disco into the game so soon after victory is waiting.
You tried to go full impulse at the wrong moment, I guess - no issue with that here. Popups were properly disabled, too. Can't say why yours didn't work that way.
The rapid-fire rifle in the cutscene, as I recall, was being fired by someone else. As for the sudden change in weapon appearance in the cutscene, if it bothers you that much, you're gonna really hate some of the later ones, especially if you do the Specters arc. (Thank Rao that one's no longer mandatory!)
As for the "rehash" - it's a tutorial, intended for new players. It's designed to teach you how to perform the basic functions of the game. Until and unless those functions change, the same tutorial will remain useful, just as Army Basic Training hasn't undergone any fundamental changes since at least the 1980s. That's why veterans generally get the option to skip. I took this tutorial in large part because I wanted to see what differences they put in - I particularly enjoyed the new voiceovers and the Rush Easter egg (Cadets Lifeson, Peart, and Lee) - but I certainly didn't expect to see any game mechanics I hadn't seen in any of the others, because there aren't any new low-level game mechanics in the game itself.
> @jonsills said: > You tried to go full impulse at the wrong moment, I guess - no issue with that here. Popups were properly disabled, too. Can't say why yours didn't work that way. > > The rapid-fire rifle in the cutscene, as I recall, was being fired by someone else. As for the sudden change in weapon appearance in the cutscene, if it bothers you that much, you're gonna really hate some of the later ones, especially if you do the Specters arc. (Thank Rao that one's no longer mandatory!) > > As for the "rehash" - it's a tutorial, intended for new players. It's designed to teach you how to perform the basic functions of the game. Until and unless those functions change, the same tutorial will remain useful, just as Army Basic Training hasn't undergone any fundamental changes since at least the 1980s. That's why veterans generally get the option to skip. I took this tutorial in large part because I wanted to see what differences they put in - I particularly enjoyed the new voiceovers and the Rush Easter egg (Cadets Lifeson, Peart, and Lee) - but I certainly didn't expect to see any game mechanics I hadn't seen in any of the others, because there aren't any new low-level game mechanics in the game itself.
Ok on the Tutorial section. Why is it then that the Romulan, Klingon and AoY tutorial manage to do the same thing but are not carbon copies of the 2409 Main Federation branch?
Sorry on this point you're wrong. The others I don't have an issue with. But this "Oh it's just there to teach newer players to play the game." When every other faction's tutorial does THE SAME THING, but manages to do it without a complete rehash and it's own story.
It's why people are calling it a ripoff and lazy, because it's exactly what it is. I again point to AoY, Romulan and KDF tutorials. Hell even the Jem'Hadar had a short tutorial that was not a knockoff of the Federation tutorial.
Cryptic could of done better and HAS done better and it is not wrong to call them out on their laziness.
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It seems..... very short? I have half a day left...I guess, I go back to DOFFing.
I changed all the BOFFs to look different. I have added a black woman and an Asian man.
I don't care what Quinn likes so they all kept the Discovery uniforms...in fuschia and periwinkle blue...with nice black and silver accents. Collar doesn't change, though.
You can tell the voice actors are much more professional. The animation seems a bit regressed...more cartoony.
Everything ran smoothly for me, even though I was signing out between stories for hours on end.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Cryptic could of done better and HAS done better and it is not wrong to call them out on their laziness.
Well...not sure it is entirely laziness....it seems they bit off more than they could chew with Discovery right on the tail of Gamma Quadrant. And a new story for Discovery character's tutorial was one of the concessions they had to make.
Maybe they will revisit that when things slow down a bit. I know, not what you want to hear.
Cryptic keeps and sticks to deadlines and schedules like crazy. And if it isn't in the schedule....well...it gets tabled until it does get in there. I understand they are still making missions for Discovery story arc....so more Discovery is coming. And I understand they have changed some small stuff in the other Fed missions to tie in more with Discovery.
And no, I did not read the entire thread, so sorry if I missed interpreted your post.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Actually and I can't believe I'm defending said person but Daniels did say that after the battle your character is listed KIA.
Your listed as KIA, but you didn't die obviously, because you wouldn't be in the future if you did. You also don't die in AOY either.
Had Daniels not intervened (in AoY at least), you would have died, though. There was no way you were going to survive facing off against a major Klingon fleet all on your lonesome in a lousy Pioneer-class cruiser, after all. So you and your crew were plucked from the timeline at the moment of your death, so you could become an agent who could move through time and never be missed.
It's unclear whether Daniels saved you in AoD, but as far as history is concerned it's the same thing - you were vaporized at Starbase One, and now you're free to be Daniels' agent in time-travel adventures.
> @where2r1 said: > It seems..... very short? I have half a day left...I guess, I go back to DOFFing. > > I changed all the BOFFs to look different. I have added a black woman and an Asian man. > I don't care what Quinn likes so they all kept the Discovery uniforms...in fuschia and periwinkle blue...with nice black and silver accents. Collar doesn't change, though. > > You can tell the voice actors are much more professional. The animation seems a bit regressed...more cartoony. > > Everything ran smoothly for me, even though I was signing out between stories for hours on end.
If you want to change the collar, switch to the simple shirt, change the collar on it, then flip back. Collar changes.
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> @talonxv said: > If you want to change the collar, switch to the simple shirt, change the collar on it, then flip back. Collar changes.
LOL! That is the oddest thing I have ever heard of. I will try it, maybe, out of curiosity. But I am pretty much finished with Discovery characters. Back to grinding my Gamma recruits for account unlocks...I have not finished all the Gamma Quad missions on them.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
> @where2r1 said: > > @talonxv said: > > If you want to change the collar, switch to the simple shirt, change the collar on it, then flip back. Collar changes. > > LOL! That is the oddest thing I have ever heard of. I will try it, maybe, out of curiosity. But I am pretty much finished with Discovery characters. Back to grinding my Gamma recruits for account unlocks...I have not finished all the Gamma Quad missions on them. > >
Found it funny myself. But it works.
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1 silly stupid question. I thought tue Discovery herself was the only testbed of the spore drive. Or was it on every freaking crossfield ship?
Cause apparently it's on all of them now. And Also I thought because of the registry number denoted where in the line a ship fell. But Tilly calls the Crossfield class a new class?
Kiksen, you seem to ignore that DSC is IN THE PRIME TIMELINE. That's been stated, over and over, by the only people with the authority to determine it. Further, the supposed "technological differences" between DSC and TOS are matters of aesthetics, not technology, and are due in large part to the fact that the show is no longer being filmed in the 1960s at a video resolution that most of us would today find unacceptable for a crayon drawing.
Get over it.
The trick is that there is more than one way to "say" it, and it is not the first time CBS has said things to mislead the audience for what they apparently think are surprise plot twists. CBS tells us it is Prime, but they also show us that it is a paradox caused by the Tholians grabbing the Defiant and losing it to the Terran Empire. Things like the persistence of the Terran uniform and the fact that it is covered in icons point to the distortion of the existential link between their prime and mirror universes putting even more (prime) Terran influence in the Federation than existed in TOS Prime. The thing is, with a paradox setup like that in order for the NuPrime universes to exist the original Prime universes have to exist as well. It is possible that they exist on different phases on the same time trunk or something like that, but to work they do have to both exist or it breaks the loop.
The changes between old Prime and NuPrime are more than just esthetics, the technology works differently though they use the same names for things. If it was just a style difference and the tech was the same then things like the main-screens would still be screens though they might look different, but NuPrime uses windows instead.
Warp does not even work quite the same way, it is more like a hyperdrive than the TOS warp. For instance it is not possible in TOS to "escape into warp" like they have DSC, they just accelerate away and it takes about six seconds or so to get up to cruising speed from a dead stop instead of just bampf! they are in warp (and apparently their own little private space). Every series before DSC featured chases and often the pursuer would catch the runner or at least would end up close enough to shoot at each other in a running battle (ENT even did it for an entire episode while they worked on a way of synching the cannons with both the shields and the warp field so they could shoot back).
In TOS warp was seamless and you could even use warp to move at sublight speeds or even sit in one spot and just pivot incredibly fast. You could even go a little faster than light using impulse drives though not very fast by warp standards, the "advanced impulse" that Scotty figured the Romulan warbird used. Warp nacelles, even with the reduced versatility compared to TOS, tend to be bulkier (expressed more in length than chunkiness though the Malachowski's are rather thick).
Sensors in TOS were lightyears ahead of DSC sensors, and so was the gunnery. In TOS the average engagement distance was around 30,000 kilometers, in DSC the ships are close enough to clearly see shapes and surface details with the naked eye. In one episode Enterprise bullseyed Nomad, a robotic probe about the size of a medium kitchen trash can, at 90,000 kilometers while being buffeted around and knocked out of warp. In TNG a rogue Federation ship caused an interstellar diplomatic crisis by destroying a Cardassian freighter and its destroyer escort in a warp chase at close to 300,000 kilometers. In DSC they apparently do not even detect incoming ships until they are pretty much close enough drop out of warp on top of them much less be able to shoot at them. In TOS they hit more often than they missed, while in DSC they shoot a lot faster but despite considerably shorter range engagements they seem to hit more like the one time in twenty that police gun battles average in the real world.
The only way to sensibly fit DSC into STO is to treat it like they do Kelvin and other alternate timelines, by taking the same kind of approach that TNG did with the episode "Parellels", but adding that stuff bleeds back and forth without the majority of the people in the story noticing the discrepancies.
Comments
> sophlogimo wrote: »
>
> And why, oh why on Earth a "cover identity"? I WANT TO PLAY AS THIS GUY, THAT'S WHY I CREATED HIM! Being thrown into the future isn't THAT unusual in Starfleet, technically it isn't even time travel. Why can't we just be ourselves, with everybody nodding and saying "it is fortunate that you survived after all. Your performance at the defense of Starbase 1 is still Academy teaching material"?
>
>
>
> Because being thrown into the future IS unusual. Remember, your toon is the only one experiencing all this, so you're the only person who's been rescued from death by Daniels and recruited into his service. (The idea is similar to the method used by the two sides in Fritz Lieber's "Change War" stories, written back in the late '50s, where recruits were taken from the ranks of those who were about to die, so their removal from the timeline wouldn't affect anything else.)
>
> You were chosen because you died in a fashion that didn't leave a corpse. Changing that information could result in unacceptable changes to the timeline; the entire purpose of Daniels' organization, after all, is to ensure that temporal operatives of various factions don't **** up history and make their future cease to exist (apparently, it's the best outcome of all the timelines they've investigated). They can't stop all the changes, which is why the "information packet" in the most recent blog posting notes that you may find discrepancies between official historical records and what you can remember them saying before. The concept is similar to a throwaway bit in David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself, where the protagonist accidentally dropped a Coke bottle while visiting Herculaneum before the volcano, then found that President Robert Kennedy had ordered a crash program to investigate the possibility of time travel after archaeologists found it, so he had to go back and talk himself out of killing Sirhan Sirhan.
Actually you didn't die in the dsc storyline, you were transported to the future by the Klingon weapon, Daniels just sort of intercepted you and recruited you to help sort out the mess of everyone else that was present also being transported to the future.
You only die in the TOS storyline
Santa Claus???
They just get less sober.
Where do the other inconsistencies in Star Trek come from?
It worked better for the story they were writing now to do things differently than they were done in a story written before.
Only because the creators became so arrogant or so impotent that they cannot come up with anything new and creative within the canon's frame, we have those silly experiments, like Jar Jar Abram's Kelvin Timeline or... the Discovery. It's like spitting on the already existing and well established lore.
If the creators want to call it canon, I can't argue. Call it Prime Universe? Sure. Just a way different tone and outlook from what I'm used to for Star Trek.
To play the devil's advocate here, Starfleet lost three ships at the fall of Starbase One, in addition to the losses suffered at the station itself. Downfall was Cyptic's take on that battle, with the player's ship being one of the three that fought to defend the station.
Your ship getting "pulled" into the 25th Century was just one of those instances of gameplay taking precedence over story. You have to make some allowances for that. But I do agree with some critics that this same-old, same-old mess in TRIBBLE felt rushed and lazy.
> > @jonsills said:
> > sophlogimo wrote: »
> >
> > And why, oh why on Earth a "cover identity"? I WANT TO PLAY AS THIS GUY, THAT'S WHY I CREATED HIM! Being thrown into the future isn't THAT unusual in Starfleet, technically it isn't even time travel. Why can't we just be ourselves, with everybody nodding and saying "it is fortunate that you survived after all. Your performance at the defense of Starbase 1 is still Academy teaching material"?
> >
> >
> >
> > Because being thrown into the future IS unusual. Remember, your toon is the only one experiencing all this, so you're the only person who's been rescued from death by Daniels and recruited into his service. (The idea is similar to the method used by the two sides in Fritz Lieber's "Change War" stories, written back in the late '50s, where recruits were taken from the ranks of those who were about to die, so their removal from the timeline wouldn't affect anything else.)
> >
> > You were chosen because you died in a fashion that didn't leave a corpse. Changing that information could result in unacceptable changes to the timeline; the entire purpose of Daniels' organization, after all, is to ensure that temporal operatives of various factions don't **** up history and make their future cease to exist (apparently, it's the best outcome of all the timelines they've investigated). They can't stop all the changes, which is why the "information packet" in the most recent blog posting notes that you may find discrepancies between official historical records and what you can remember them saying before. The concept is similar to a throwaway bit in David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself, where the protagonist accidentally dropped a Coke bottle while visiting Herculaneum before the volcano, then found that President Robert Kennedy had ordered a crash program to investigate the possibility of time travel after archaeologists found it, so he had to go back and talk himself out of killing Sirhan Sirhan.
>
> Actually you didn't die in the dsc storyline, you were transported to the future by the Klingon weapon, Daniels just sort of intercepted you and recruited you to help sort out the mess of everyone else that was present also being transported to the future.
>
> You only die in the TOS storyline
>
Actually and I can't believe I'm defending said person but Daniels did say that after the battle your character is listed KIA.
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> Same complaints, to the letter, that people made about TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, etc. None of them mattered then, they don't matter now, and they will not matter in the future. The franchise owners make all decisions of what is or isn't canon. I don't like Sisko, other than Archer he's the worst captain in the entire franchise, both are canon regardless of my feelings on it. Just as the Kelvin Timeline and Discovery are canon regardless of anyone else's feelings about it.
And I personally think Sisko is the BEST captain. Simply for one fact alone.
He had the utter gonads to punch Q right square in the face and not give one solitary Frak he did it.
And when the beams are flying and stuff is going to hell in a hand basket, there's noone better.
Picard is the better diplomat, Kirk is the best explorer, Sisko is the best war leader.
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@kiksken , officially in universe, the inconsistencies for Discovery do not exist. Star Trek: Discovery is for all intents and purposes a visual reboot. Let's recap what they've given new visuals for.
- Star Trek Uniforms: The Discovery Uniforms are much different than the ones used on the original pilot, which we know was set in 2254. Discovery starts just 2 years after it.
- Starfleet Ships: Ships look a lot different compared to what was the style used in the 60s, but that's because production values have increased. Also compared to TOS which was on a smaller budget and thus didn't create as many ships for TOS, so in those days, we were treated with almost every Starfleet ship as a Constitution era class ship, or that the Klingons and Romulans used one to two models of ship for the time. Discovery matches later series that they would have more than just one particular class of ship for a service branch of the Federation that is in charge of defending it.
- Interiors: While we know what the interiors looked like between the 1st and 2nd pilots of TOS, another major criticism that Discovery gets is that the interiors do not look like the TOS ones. Again, this is due to the production value of the show. They didn't want TOS interiors, they wanted stuff that looks like we would be using in the future.
- Klingons: The biggest inconsistency we've seen mentioned is how radically different the Klingons look compared to either TOS or even Enterprise or later series. Part of this stems from the creators wanting the Klingons to be ridged. (In TOS, they were supposed to have been ridged, but there was a limit as to what they could do for makeup at the time for the show). As we know from Season 1, the Klingons went bald, but for Season 2 they added hair to the Klingon heads, so that they now are closer to the Klingon style most will remember, while keeping the reimagined look.
- Klingon ships: This is another inconsistency that I felt I should address since there's been mixed emotions here about the ships. As we know in TOS and later series, including STO, Klingon ships tend to follow a pretty similar uniform design choice. However the ships in Discovery do not follow a consistent pattern. It could be explained in universe that because the Great Houses were doing their own things, the ship classes were all different because they were designed by the various houses. (Out of universe, they just wanted radically different designs for Klingons).
Look, if you don't want to accept Discovery as canon with the rest of the star trek universe, you have a right to. Just don't expect everyone else to follow along with your opinion.
To better integrate it into existing stories, specifically the AOY stuff.
Freighter we rescue, captain sounded like he was trying to mimic mark hamill's joker. The colony of "moyna's" full of bad aussie accents.
Being told to go to full impulse but being locked because some klingon off in the distance (the reason for full impulse being needed) is talking to us.
Checking the box to disable popups doesn't actually disable popups.
Inconsistent weapons during cutscenes, only rifle we're offered at the start is the sniper yet we're shown using a rapidly firing rifle. During the moyne doorbreach we've suddenly decided to use a pistol.
Pretty generic and lazy rehash of existing tutorials which makes me wonder how much cbs actually paid to shoehorn disco into the game so soon after victory is waiting.
The rapid-fire rifle in the cutscene, as I recall, was being fired by someone else. As for the sudden change in weapon appearance in the cutscene, if it bothers you that much, you're gonna really hate some of the later ones, especially if you do the Specters arc. (Thank Rao that one's no longer mandatory!)
As for the "rehash" - it's a tutorial, intended for new players. It's designed to teach you how to perform the basic functions of the game. Until and unless those functions change, the same tutorial will remain useful, just as Army Basic Training hasn't undergone any fundamental changes since at least the 1980s. That's why veterans generally get the option to skip. I took this tutorial in large part because I wanted to see what differences they put in - I particularly enjoyed the new voiceovers and the Rush Easter egg (Cadets Lifeson, Peart, and Lee) - but I certainly didn't expect to see any game mechanics I hadn't seen in any of the others, because there aren't any new low-level game mechanics in the game itself.
> You tried to go full impulse at the wrong moment, I guess - no issue with that here. Popups were properly disabled, too. Can't say why yours didn't work that way.
>
> The rapid-fire rifle in the cutscene, as I recall, was being fired by someone else. As for the sudden change in weapon appearance in the cutscene, if it bothers you that much, you're gonna really hate some of the later ones, especially if you do the Specters arc. (Thank Rao that one's no longer mandatory!)
>
> As for the "rehash" - it's a tutorial, intended for new players. It's designed to teach you how to perform the basic functions of the game. Until and unless those functions change, the same tutorial will remain useful, just as Army Basic Training hasn't undergone any fundamental changes since at least the 1980s. That's why veterans generally get the option to skip. I took this tutorial in large part because I wanted to see what differences they put in - I particularly enjoyed the new voiceovers and the Rush Easter egg (Cadets Lifeson, Peart, and Lee) - but I certainly didn't expect to see any game mechanics I hadn't seen in any of the others, because there aren't any new low-level game mechanics in the game itself.
Ok on the Tutorial section. Why is it then that the Romulan, Klingon and AoY tutorial manage to do the same thing but are not carbon copies of the 2409 Main Federation branch?
Sorry on this point you're wrong. The others I don't have an issue with. But this "Oh it's just there to teach newer players to play the game." When every other faction's tutorial does THE SAME THING, but manages to do it without a complete rehash and it's own story.
It's why people are calling it a ripoff and lazy, because it's exactly what it is. I again point to AoY, Romulan and KDF tutorials. Hell even the Jem'Hadar had a short tutorial that was not a knockoff of the Federation tutorial.
Cryptic could of done better and HAS done better and it is not wrong to call them out on their laziness.
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I changed all the BOFFs to look different. I have added a black woman and an Asian man.
I don't care what Quinn likes so they all kept the Discovery uniforms...in fuschia and periwinkle blue...with nice black and silver accents. Collar doesn't change, though.
You can tell the voice actors are much more professional. The animation seems a bit regressed...more cartoony.
Everything ran smoothly for me, even though I was signing out between stories for hours on end.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Well...not sure it is entirely laziness....it seems they bit off more than they could chew with Discovery right on the tail of Gamma Quadrant. And a new story for Discovery character's tutorial was one of the concessions they had to make.
Maybe they will revisit that when things slow down a bit. I know, not what you want to hear.
Cryptic keeps and sticks to deadlines and schedules like crazy. And if it isn't in the schedule....well...it gets tabled until it does get in there. I understand they are still making missions for Discovery story arc....so more Discovery is coming. And I understand they have changed some small stuff in the other Fed missions to tie in more with Discovery.
And no, I did not read the entire thread, so sorry if I missed interpreted your post.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Your listed as KIA, but you didn't die obviously, because you wouldn't be in the future if you did. You also don't die in AOY either.
It's unclear whether Daniels saved you in AoD, but as far as history is concerned it's the same thing - you were vaporized at Starbase One, and now you're free to be Daniels' agent in time-travel adventures.
> It seems..... very short? I have half a day left...I guess, I go back to DOFFing.
>
> I changed all the BOFFs to look different. I have added a black woman and an Asian man.
> I don't care what Quinn likes so they all kept the Discovery uniforms...in fuschia and periwinkle blue...with nice black and silver accents. Collar doesn't change, though.
>
> You can tell the voice actors are much more professional. The animation seems a bit regressed...more cartoony.
>
> Everything ran smoothly for me, even though I was signing out between stories for hours on end.
If you want to change the collar, switch to the simple shirt, change the collar on it, then flip back. Collar changes.
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> If you want to change the collar, switch to the simple shirt, change the collar on it, then flip back. Collar changes.
LOL! That is the oddest thing I have ever heard of. I will try it, maybe, out of curiosity. But I am pretty much finished with Discovery characters. Back to grinding my Gamma recruits for account unlocks...I have not finished all the Gamma Quad missions on them.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
> > @talonxv said:
> > If you want to change the collar, switch to the simple shirt, change the collar on it, then flip back. Collar changes.
>
> LOL! That is the oddest thing I have ever heard of. I will try it, maybe, out of curiosity. But I am pretty much finished with Discovery characters. Back to grinding my Gamma recruits for account unlocks...I have not finished all the Gamma Quad missions on them.
>
>
Found it funny myself. But it works.
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The trick is that there is more than one way to "say" it, and it is not the first time CBS has said things to mislead the audience for what they apparently think are surprise plot twists. CBS tells us it is Prime, but they also show us that it is a paradox caused by the Tholians grabbing the Defiant and losing it to the Terran Empire. Things like the persistence of the Terran uniform and the fact that it is covered in icons point to the distortion of the existential link between their prime and mirror universes putting even more (prime) Terran influence in the Federation than existed in TOS Prime. The thing is, with a paradox setup like that in order for the NuPrime universes to exist the original Prime universes have to exist as well. It is possible that they exist on different phases on the same time trunk or something like that, but to work they do have to both exist or it breaks the loop.
The changes between old Prime and NuPrime are more than just esthetics, the technology works differently though they use the same names for things. If it was just a style difference and the tech was the same then things like the main-screens would still be screens though they might look different, but NuPrime uses windows instead.
Warp does not even work quite the same way, it is more like a hyperdrive than the TOS warp. For instance it is not possible in TOS to "escape into warp" like they have DSC, they just accelerate away and it takes about six seconds or so to get up to cruising speed from a dead stop instead of just bampf! they are in warp (and apparently their own little private space). Every series before DSC featured chases and often the pursuer would catch the runner or at least would end up close enough to shoot at each other in a running battle (ENT even did it for an entire episode while they worked on a way of synching the cannons with both the shields and the warp field so they could shoot back).
In TOS warp was seamless and you could even use warp to move at sublight speeds or even sit in one spot and just pivot incredibly fast. You could even go a little faster than light using impulse drives though not very fast by warp standards, the "advanced impulse" that Scotty figured the Romulan warbird used. Warp nacelles, even with the reduced versatility compared to TOS, tend to be bulkier (expressed more in length than chunkiness though the Malachowski's are rather thick).
Sensors in TOS were lightyears ahead of DSC sensors, and so was the gunnery. In TOS the average engagement distance was around 30,000 kilometers, in DSC the ships are close enough to clearly see shapes and surface details with the naked eye. In one episode Enterprise bullseyed Nomad, a robotic probe about the size of a medium kitchen trash can, at 90,000 kilometers while being buffeted around and knocked out of warp. In TNG a rogue Federation ship caused an interstellar diplomatic crisis by destroying a Cardassian freighter and its destroyer escort in a warp chase at close to 300,000 kilometers. In DSC they apparently do not even detect incoming ships until they are pretty much close enough drop out of warp on top of them much less be able to shoot at them. In TOS they hit more often than they missed, while in DSC they shoot a lot faster but despite considerably shorter range engagements they seem to hit more like the one time in twenty that police gun battles average in the real world.
The only way to sensibly fit DSC into STO is to treat it like they do Kelvin and other alternate timelines, by taking the same kind of approach that TNG did with the episode "Parellels", but adding that stuff bleeds back and forth without the majority of the people in the story noticing the discrepancies.