While it is another example of our old nemesis, the D'Derpidex, what particularly aggravated this player is that it happened in the post-50 range, where, up to that point, he was FINE. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
what is so hard about the d'deridex? you just stay away and pound in it, keep something back for the plasmas. sure you won't know that the first time but after the second or thrid you either learn it or like being beat over the noggin with a stick.
Knowing how to use Roman numerals to count, that is not the issue.
The issue is knowing that those numbers and colors on the icons and used in the game has a ranking to go with them and that is associated with the level your character is competing at.
you mean that standard coloring scheme that is in pretty much every frigging MMO since WoW? you can't really calim ignorance after you save the azura you get your first green gear. if you don't ask or compare, that's on you
highER, like comparing mk2 with a mk3.... It's blatantly obvious even if the level difference is small.
Yes, and nobody is positing that newbies are intentionally discarding high-mark gear in favor of continuing to use low-mark gear. The reason newbies are generally running gear of far lower mark than they otherwise might be able to is because the game simply does not issue this gear. Let's imagine you're a fresh level 9 newbie. You hit level 10. What happens? Quinn bugs you to get a new ship. Hey, new ship! You get a new ship (and probably pick the wrong one, shooting yourself in the foot in the future). Does this new ship come with a brand new spanking load of MK IV gear? Nope. You get a set of mismatched white guns, and I'm not sure what mark they are, but your consoles are just completely empty. Where does one even get MK IV consoles from? The Exchange? Those prices are highway robbery as far as a newbie is concerned. Stuff you picked up off the floor? No guarantee any of it matches. You ever wonder why newbies are seen wielding stuff like Tetryon Tac Consoles 2-4 marks below what they should be using, when they don't even have any tetryon weapons?
So you just splat over whatever you have. If you find something, one of two things happens:
A. You correctly recognize that this item has no relevance to you because it doesn't match anything on your ship, so you toss that MK XII Polaroid console you just found because your ship is full of Mk VII phasers (and a random MK X disruptor because 10 is a bigger number than 7). You still have not gained any tac consoles.
B. You slap that sucker on replacing your MK V phaser console because 12 is a bigger number than 5! What even is a polaron? This thing has a bigger number than my old one AND it is GREEN instead of white! (DPS -> -however many % an MK V console is even worth)
5 minutes later, you find a tetryon beam. It has a bigger number than your phaser turret! Stick it on! (DPS -> 0 because a rear beam can't even fire at a target your forward cannon is aimed at)
Result: A newbie ship that isn't an actual coherent build of any kind, just a collection of random junk they found on the floor...because frankly, what else would they even have?
even if it's just white gear the ship equipment vendor will sell you odd number marks up to your level, so sure you make be able to use mk iv, but you can at least buy mk 3 gear.
However, because the game offers no real access to this increased level of equipment, except through either an extremely convoluted, expensive, and waiting-intensive crafting process, or through paying exhorbitant fees on the Exchange, money newbies simply do not have, the power growth of the new player to match the increased demands basically grinds to a dead halt. He plateaus right there at the level 50 point, while NPCs continue to grow in power. By the time he's at level 65, NPCs are causing nearly twice as much damage as they were before and he's doing half as much damage as he should be. The game is now abruptly 4x as hard as it was and the newbie has received absolutely nothing to deal with this.
What you really mean is "doesn't hand it to you on a silver platter"...
Noob Story: There's a mission in the same story arc that involves sitting down at a conference table with various representatives for diplomatic talks. For the life of me not ever having had to sit at a table before I couldn't figure out how to proceed. I exited the mission and googled the sit commands. After trying all of them and failing to proceed yet again I asked for help in zone chat and even offered EC for an answer. Then somebody told me all I had to do was click on a chair.
thats why the new tutorials have you sit down
lol yes.
But they should take that part out so that others will suffer through what I went through. It teaches you a lesson.
...Let's imagine you're a fresh level 9 newbie. You hit level 10. What happens? Quinn bugs you to get a new ship. Hey, new ship! You get a new ship (and probably pick the wrong one, shooting yourself in the foot in the future). Does this new ship come with a brand new spanking load of MK IV gear? Nope. You get a set of mismatched white guns, and I'm not sure what mark they are, but your consoles are just completely empty. Where does one even get MK IV consoles from? The Exchange? Those prices are highway robbery as far as a newbie is concerned...
Have to agree that the way in which that shiny new ship comes equipped does set a bad example for a new player. A mix of beams, cannons, maybe a turret, and way too many torpedoes is setting up a new player to under perform. I do think having a more usable setup out of the box could help educate by setting a reasonable example for new players and it wouldn't cost the game anything as they'd still be bound white weapons with zero EC value.
This would be some good advice for the "what can we teach better" thread.
And what would that "more usable" setup be? D(H)Cs/turrets? Beam broadsides? DBBs even though there are no stock omnibeams to go with them? How many torpedoes is an appropriate amount? There are those who would say none. On the other hand, some build ships with nothing but torpedoes. Who's meta gets passed on as gospel to the poor newbies who aren't paying attention? And what happens when the metagame marches on and the more usable default build is once again "wrong?"
Or for that matter, what about when newbie not-paying-attention gets his "more usable" build with, for example, all beams and wonders why his CRF doesn't do anything on it (since he's not paying attention)?
IMO, ships other than your starter should come equipped with nothing except unique special items, for those ships that have them.
Take what I said as a casual suggestion, not really anything I'm beating a drum about. I hear you. People do have to pay attention or they may as well be watching TV instead of playing a game.
You've made some very valid and well worded posts in this thread. One wonders where to draw the line here. I was actually concerned about the leveling experience at one point earlier, not so much now and after seeing a squishy poster was using a Mk I tac console at end-game, even less.
Learning how to play the game (whatever it takes) is the norm. In any game. As is some players failing to learn how to play, no matter what.
Fact is, players being spoon-fed what to do, some players will see as boring spoilers. And that's no fun. There simply is no universal solution to what is fun for everyone.
Remember how I keep saying "This Is How Newbies Actually Are"? Watch this space for yet another one of these newbie builds which is getting its face pushed in by level scaling.
I don't really get what you hope to accomplish by highlighting bottom-of-the-barrel "newbie builds." Besides insulting new players.
My point isn't to "insult new players". My point is to point out that this is how new players ACTUALLY play, NOT how we veterans understand how to play, and that these examples are not isolated cases of people being unusually thick, but are, in fact, representative of actual newbies and how they play the game. That there's a real problem in how newbies are trained to play the game, by the game, and this is resulting in the reported 99% attrition rate on PS4, with an unknown, but probably similar, number on all other platforms.
How SOME new players actually play. How some old players probably play, too. But as I said, if players refuse to read what a tac console affects or what mark their items are, giving them a ship building tutorial isn't going to make them. They'll just skip through that without reading, too.
And as others have already said, that's mostly normal churn. The game's F2P, people download it, play for a while then forget about it. I've probably tried hundreds of F2P games just to see what they were like and quit after one or two sessions. Not because I had trouble learning them, but because they just didn't catch my interest enough. Some I've downloaded just because I had some time to pass and then deleted right away, especially on mobile. Also many that I've played for a few days or weeks and then got bored with. Maybe 4 or 5 that I've played long-term, including STO. That's not a problem, that's how F2P works. It encourages everyone to try with zero commitment.
You would do well to actually post link or screenshot of these "reports" of atrition rate on PS4. If you're referring to the trophies, those are only viisble to people who have downloaded and played the game. I do suppose I could download it just to see the statistics, but hey, that would then count me as "attrition," because I never played it any further.
For that matter, I look at the trophies to games I own and people finish only like 20-40% of games they actualy paid for. And trophies that won't pop during the main story often have single-digit rarity.
Knowing how to use Roman numerals to count, that is not the issue.
The issue is knowing that those numbers and colors on the icons and used in the game has a ranking to go with them and that is associated with the level your character is competing at.
you mean that standard coloring scheme that is in pretty much every frigging MMO since WoW? you can't really calim ignorance after you save the azura you get your first green gear. if you don't ask or compare, that's on you
Never played another MMO.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Dude you have over 3 thousand forum posts. I have seen you on these forums for over a year. If you haven't figured out the color scheme for item rarity which is not solely used in MMOs by now, thats on you, not the game.
I wasn't talking about me....when it comes to color schemes and numbers. I was talking about new players needing those rules to go by.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Ok, but you haven't explained why the game should be balanced around being played by people that bad.
Because the game completely fails to teach them NOT to be that bad. Because we're currently losing 99% of our new players, with an 80% loss rate between those who even survived to 60 and those who have subsequently dropped dead before getting far enough for us to see them.
Given the source of this "information", I don't see how we can draw any meaningful conclusions from it, since it literally includes everyone who ever DLed the game.
noobs need to l2p. They just need to pay attention. Even in WOW you're just lead around in Ah, bank and trainers and not how to beat ragnaros or whatever their current endgame raid is (stopped payin attention at Molten core). Anyways in STO at lvl10 you're given a ship and lead to the shipyard. At lvl11 you're given a full DOFF compliment thus introduced to DOFFing. At lvl20 you're given 20 photonic R&D doffs introducing you to R&D. At lvl50 you're lead to the REPUTATION page. The simple most important part of the game. At lvl52 you're introduced to admiralty. At that moment you should stop leveling and concentrate your effort on REP and ADM. Acquiring rep marks and ship cards. Up until lvl52 your gearscore, your ship, your build is irrelevant. If you stick around ingame you will acquire that knowledge, be it fleet, stfs, forums, whateva...
Ok, but you haven't explained why the game should be balanced around being played by people that bad.
Because the game completely fails to teach them NOT to be that bad. Because we're currently losing 99% of our new players, with an 80% loss rate between those who even survived to 60 and those who have subsequently dropped dead before getting far enough for us to see them.
Given the source of this "information", I don't see how we can draw any meaningful conclusions from it, since it literally includes everyone who ever DLed the game.
All of these systems were introduced to be used by veterans that had a preexisting pool of resources to draw upon to fund it and little else to be doing except that. None of them are of any real use to newbies who aren't prepared to heavily game the system pay attention or learn to play the game.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Ouch. I'd like to see a thread that's had some good points made stick around for a while Sarcasm about the variety of ways numbers can be interpreted do not equal any intent to be anti-studio on my part.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
then you shouldn't have brought it up to begin with; statistics are always heavily biased at best, outright lies at worst
Frequent poster in this thread brings up some statistics from a console version of the game, mentions a second number of % people retained at x rank (around end game).
I don't have any access or seen a link to console statistics but accept that console players may frequently download and try numerous games which may result in said statistics so don't give any meaning to the number.
Having managed or help manage several groups for a long time I don't necessarily disagree with his % retained by end-game numbers.
I want the % / end-game number to be as high as possible... actually want the tried it and decided to stay one to be the same as well (which is why I even bother to post in this thread - because I care).
Yes, statistics are biased unless you know what the criteria is being used. The (art) poster was used as an example as the criteria used is unknown.
Comments
what is so hard about the d'deridex? you just stay away and pound in it, keep something back for the plasmas. sure you won't know that the first time but after the second or thrid you either learn it or like being beat over the noggin with a stick.
you mean that standard coloring scheme that is in pretty much every frigging MMO since WoW? you can't really calim ignorance after you save the azura you get your first green gear. if you don't ask or compare, that's on you
even if it's just white gear the ship equipment vendor will sell you odd number marks up to your level, so sure you make be able to use mk iv, but you can at least buy mk 3 gear.
My character Tsin'xing
But they should take that part out so that others will suffer through what I went through. It teaches you a lesson.
You've made some very valid and well worded posts in this thread. One wonders where to draw the line here. I was actually concerned about the leveling experience at one point earlier, not so much now and after seeing a squishy poster was using a Mk I tac console at end-game, even less.
QFT
Some people are clueless. So what? Such is life.
My character Tsin'xing
And as others have already said, that's mostly normal churn. The game's F2P, people download it, play for a while then forget about it. I've probably tried hundreds of F2P games just to see what they were like and quit after one or two sessions. Not because I had trouble learning them, but because they just didn't catch my interest enough. Some I've downloaded just because I had some time to pass and then deleted right away, especially on mobile. Also many that I've played for a few days or weeks and then got bored with. Maybe 4 or 5 that I've played long-term, including STO. That's not a problem, that's how F2P works. It encourages everyone to try with zero commitment.
You would do well to actually post link or screenshot of these "reports" of atrition rate on PS4. If you're referring to the trophies, those are only viisble to people who have downloaded and played the game. I do suppose I could download it just to see the statistics, but hey, that would then count me as "attrition," because I never played it any further.
For that matter, I look at the trophies to games I own and people finish only like 20-40% of games they actualy paid for. And trophies that won't pop during the main story often have single-digit rarity.
My character Tsin'xing
Never played another MMO.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I wasn't talking about me....when it comes to color schemes and numbers. I was talking about new players needing those rules to go by.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
My character Tsin'xing
STO teaches you, you just need to listen.
Fixed that for you.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I don't have any access or seen a link to console statistics but accept that console players may frequently download and try numerous games which may result in said statistics so don't give any meaning to the number.
Having managed or help manage several groups for a long time I don't necessarily disagree with his % retained by end-game numbers.
I want the % / end-game number to be as high as possible... actually want the tried it and decided to stay one to be the same as well (which is why I even bother to post in this thread - because I care).
Yes, statistics are biased unless you know what the criteria is being used. The (art) poster was used as an example as the criteria used is unknown.
The thread title was really about scaling. The rest is covered elsewhere or just grandstanding imho. We were all new players once.
My character Tsin'xing
It was stupid of me to use the art I did as an example about statistics. /facepalm.
If I was able to choose a subtitle for this thread that applies to myself it would be something like "Good Intentions Gone Awry".