Haven't heard anything from the moderators on this yet, or wondering what Cryptic's take is on the system so far. it would be interesting to know what the official line is and what the forum mods have to say on the matter.. assuming they are allowed to do so.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
-1
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Well... we at least know Baddmoon is getting headaches from the moving threads side of things.
I'm not seeing any reports generated off of any of these "reactions". The only thing I've noticed is that down voting is "sinking" threads, a power that only mods had before. Effectively driving a thread to the bottom even if it remains active. This is problematic for mods because, now, we have to hunt for active threads rather than them "rising" to the top.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Haven't heard anything from the moderators on this yet, or wondering what Cryptic's take is on the system so far. it would be interesting to know what the official line is and what the forum mods have to say on the matter.. assuming they are allowed to do so.
I bet, to paraphrase Ash (from 'Alien', not the Pokemon kid), they'd reply something like "Well, as I said, we're still... collating."
I'm not seeing any reports generated off of any of these "reactions". The only thing I've noticed is that down voting is "sinking" threads, a power that only mods had before. Effectively driving a thread to the bottom even if it remains active. This is problematic for mods because, now, we have to hunt for active threads rather than them "rising" to the top.
yeah, that seemed more like an act of frustration than something on the record. i'm sure BMR wouldn't want that to be his/her official word on the matter and getting taken out of context. Giving BMR the benefit of the doubt, leaving it all open for now.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Interesting. I didn't realize threads, as a whole, could 'sink' too (I probably misunderstood, initially, thinking it was ppl's posts inside a thread that could sink upon downvoting).
I think the WAR thread in General is an example. For some reason it's still rather low on the page, despite the fact I had posted TODAY, not yesterday, in that thread. If its a symptom of downvoting or not... I don't know.
Tbh, I don't think I like the idea of threads sinking/rising at all. And IF the powers that be decide they should sink/rise at all, then just based on 'activity over the last X days' or something. But I just as soon see them just the way they were: it's not just harder for moderators to find 'sunken' threads, but for my poor brain too.
It seems counterproductive. So a thread with no updates can rise to the top and you waste time clicking on it only to find nothing has been added. While a thread with new posts you want to read can go down and you have to hunt it out.
Plus I have now seen redacted posts get votes ages after being redacted again showing how bad this system is.
The whole thing is a sorry mess.
We've got people getting downvoted to oblivion just because someone hada grudge against them.
We've got several small groups/factions that clearly upvote "members" constantly regardless of content.
Threads are getting buried and moved about because the downvotes power where a thread stays on the board, a system ripe for abuse.
The flag/report button doesn't seem to actually do anything.
I'm not seeing any reports generated off of any of these "reactions". The only thing I've noticed is that down voting is "sinking" threads, a power that only mods had before. Effectively driving a thread to the bottom even if it remains active. This is problematic for mods because, now, we have to hunt for active threads rather than them "rising" to the top.
I can see this being used in spiteful ways! The next time a few aren't happy with the ships released or the lack of a ship for a particular race, will downvote the thread to the point where others won't be able to see the news for new stuff. The same for patch notes. This could be used to busy contest threads to limit entries and the contest exposure to those who visit the forum. Sinking bug reports and threads about Tribble content and testing because people aren't happy, etc. This is a serious issue that can adversely affect how PWE tries to deliver important information to players that visit the forums.
Edit: Others users should not be able to affect and decide what content I come here to see, read, etc.
I'm not seeing any reports generated off of any of these "reactions". The only thing I've noticed is that down voting is "sinking" threads, a power that only mods had before. Effectively driving a thread to the bottom even if it remains active. This is problematic for mods because, now, we have to hunt for active threads rather than them "rising" to the top.
I can see this being used in spiteful ways! The next time a few aren't happy with the ships released or the lack of a ship for a particular race, will downvote the thread to the point where others won't be able to see the news for new stuff. The same for patch notes. This could be used to busy contest threads to limit entries and the contest exposure to those who visit the forum. Sinking bug reports and threads about Tribble content and testing because people aren't happy, etc. This is a serious issue that can adversely affect how PWE tries to deliver important information to players that visit the forums.
Edit: Others users should not be able to affect and decide what content I come here to see, read, etc.
Agreed. Not to mention it makes a moderator's job hell trying to go through all the threads and finding a recent one that's been pushed all the way down because of downvotes.
Who would have thought that the Forums would obey Newton's third law (For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The whole thing is a sorry mess.
We've got people getting downvoted to oblivion just because someone hada grudge against them.
We've got several small groups/factions that clearly upvote "members" constantly regardless of content.
Threads are getting buried and moved about because the downvotes power where a thread stays on the board, a system ripe for abuse.
The flag/report button doesn't seem to actually do anything.
Not to mention that retalitory strike when the spam button was used on a post and turned into a new fire. Now one user is ignoring the other and the other one has no interests in playing such mind games.
yeah, things are not looking great.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I can see this being used in spiteful ways! The next time a few aren't happy with the ships released or the lack of a ship for a particular race, will downvote the thread to the point where others won't be able to see the news for new stuff. The same for patch notes. This could be used to busy contest threads to limit entries and the contest exposure to those who visit the forum. Sinking bug reports and threads about Tribble content and testing because people aren't happy, etc. This is a serious issue that can adversely affect how PWE tries to deliver important information to players that visit the forums.
Let's do it. Sometimes things just need an object lesson in why they're a bad idea.
They don't need our help to realize the error on their ways. There are enough people around here already abusing the system to hopefully cause enough chaos to bring about the change.
Edit: The war thread is one of many perfect examples.
I can see this being used in spiteful ways! The next time a few aren't happy with the ships released or the lack of a ship for a particular race, will downvote the thread to the point where others won't be able to see the news for new stuff. The same for patch notes. This could be used to busy contest threads to limit entries and the contest exposure to those who visit the forum. Sinking bug reports and threads about Tribble content and testing because people aren't happy, etc. This is a serious issue that can adversely affect how PWE tries to deliver important information to players that visit the forums.
Let's do it. Sometimes things just need an object lesson in why they're a bad idea.
They don't need our help to realize the error on their ways. There are enough people around here already abusing the system to hopefully cause enough chaos to bring about the change.
Edit: The war thread is one of many perfect examples.
Considering the effects of up/downvoting on how high or low the posts go is a reaction to the new system, is it a matter of how many votes the posts are downvoted, or does the threads themselves have a separate upvote/downvote system?
I can see this being used in spiteful ways! The next time a few aren't happy with the ships released or the lack of a ship for a particular race, will downvote the thread to the point where others won't be able to see the news for new stuff. The same for patch notes. This could be used to busy contest threads to limit entries and the contest exposure to those who visit the forum. Sinking bug reports and threads about Tribble content and testing because people aren't happy, etc. This is a serious issue that can adversely affect how PWE tries to deliver important information to players that visit the forums.
Let's do it. Sometimes things just need an object lesson in why they're a bad idea.
They don't need our help to realize the error on their ways. There are enough people around here already abusing the system to hopefully cause enough chaos to bring about the change.
Edit: The war thread is one of many perfect examples.
I'm slightly more cynical when it comes to Cryptic's ability/willingness to listen to reason. (I mean, if they were genuinely interested in our opinion about this, you'd think they'd asked us about it beforehand). Let's just hope we, the players, can persuade them to change their mind, along with (hopefully) some mods telling them it's really an unworkable situation.
I can see this being used in spiteful ways! The next time a few aren't happy with the ships released or the lack of a ship for a particular race, will downvote the thread to the point where others won't be able to see the news for new stuff. The same for patch notes. This could be used to busy contest threads to limit entries and the contest exposure to those who visit the forum. Sinking bug reports and threads about Tribble content and testing because people aren't happy, etc. This is a serious issue that can adversely affect how PWE tries to deliver important information to players that visit the forums.
Let's do it. Sometimes things just need an object lesson in why they're a bad idea.
They don't need our help to realize the error on their ways. There are enough people around here already abusing the system to hopefully cause enough chaos to bring about the change.
Edit: The war thread is one of many perfect examples.
I'm slightly more cynical when it comes to Cryptic's ability/willingness to listen to reason. (I mean, if they were genuinely interested in our opinion about this, you'd think they'd asked us about it beforehand). Let's just hope we, the players, can persuade them to change their mind, along with (hopefully) some mods telling them it's really an unworkable situation.
I totally understand why you think that way. When it comes to game content and changes, this is very common thinking based on the history of STO. This is more of solely a forum issue though. As much as the devs seem to favor Reddit and this has probably been implemented in a way to try and lure some of those who abandoned this place for Reddit instead. There is still a large enough group of players that do come here and don't bother with Reddit.
I am also counting on that the abuse of these actions having an affect on how easy it is to moderate and promote content will be enough for them to think twice and get rid of it. The T6 Ambassador ship thread had 4 downvotes the last time I looked. Why people are so against more content, even if it isn't content they are interested in, is beyond me. If that starts to impact their sales numbers due to people sinking their threads. Then hopefully PWE's desire to accumulate more money will be the kick in the rear they need to do away with this silly system.
So if a new thread gets buried by downvoting does this mean upvote bombing could effectively necro enough threads to fill the entire front page of the forums?
Not suggesting anyone does this but it would highlight the stupidity of a system that shunts threads about based on voting up&down rather that how up to date or relevant they happen to be. Remove those two tags and it'd be marginally better.
However
If it ain't broke don't fix it or indeed poke it or add stuff to mess things up even if they distract away from the editmonster lurking in the background.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Unfortunately we're gonna be stuck with it at least for the weekend.
But yea... easy solution is to just outright remove the up/down vote options so they cannot be abused in order to manipulate the forums so show or hide any particular threads based on prejudices. Should also cut down a bit on malicious downvote attacks on specific users because they don't agree with their views.
A bit more complex would be to shift it to an agree/disagree, but not affect thread placement whatsoever.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Does the Up/Down vote work in GNN? If so, you can effectively bury a current Announcement/News Thread.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Lt. Philip J. Minns
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
It probably does. Hence why we're not liking this...
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I've reduced the number of reactions to just Off Topic and Upvote/Downvote. See how you like that.
That's interesting. Reading the feedback, I got the impression that "downvote" was the most unpopular option. Are the threads still rising/sinking based on the up- and downvotes they're getting? (I hope not).
Comments
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I bet, to paraphrase Ash (from 'Alien', not the Pokemon kid), they'd reply something like "Well, as I said, we're still... collating."
yeah, that seemed more like an act of frustration than something on the record. i'm sure BMR wouldn't want that to be his/her official word on the matter and getting taken out of context. Giving BMR the benefit of the doubt, leaving it all open for now.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Plus I have now seen redacted posts get votes ages after being redacted again showing how bad this system is.
We've got people getting downvoted to oblivion just because someone hada grudge against them.
We've got several small groups/factions that clearly upvote "members" constantly regardless of content.
Threads are getting buried and moved about because the downvotes power where a thread stays on the board, a system ripe for abuse.
The flag/report button doesn't seem to actually do anything.
I can see this being used in spiteful ways! The next time a few aren't happy with the ships released or the lack of a ship for a particular race, will downvote the thread to the point where others won't be able to see the news for new stuff. The same for patch notes. This could be used to busy contest threads to limit entries and the contest exposure to those who visit the forum. Sinking bug reports and threads about Tribble content and testing because people aren't happy, etc. This is a serious issue that can adversely affect how PWE tries to deliver important information to players that visit the forums.
Edit: Others users should not be able to affect and decide what content I come here to see, read, etc.
Agreed. Not to mention it makes a moderator's job hell trying to go through all the threads and finding a recent one that's been pushed all the way down because of downvotes.
I can vouch for Edge.
How about "non-canonical!"?
Who would have thought that the Forums would obey Newton's third law (For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction).
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Commanding Officer U.S.S. Helena C
Not to mention that retalitory strike when the spam button was used on a post and turned into a new fire. Now one user is ignoring the other and the other one has no interests in playing such mind games.
yeah, things are not looking great.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
They don't need our help to realize the error on their ways. There are enough people around here already abusing the system to hopefully cause enough chaos to bring about the change.
Edit: The war thread is one of many perfect examples.
Considering the effects of up/downvoting on how high or low the posts go is a reaction to the new system, is it a matter of how many votes the posts are downvoted, or does the threads themselves have a separate upvote/downvote system?
I'm slightly more cynical when it comes to Cryptic's ability/willingness to listen to reason.
I totally understand why you think that way. When it comes to game content and changes, this is very common thinking based on the history of STO. This is more of solely a forum issue though. As much as the devs seem to favor Reddit and this has probably been implemented in a way to try and lure some of those who abandoned this place for Reddit instead. There is still a large enough group of players that do come here and don't bother with Reddit.
I am also counting on that the abuse of these actions having an affect on how easy it is to moderate and promote content will be enough for them to think twice and get rid of it. The T6 Ambassador ship thread had 4 downvotes the last time I looked. Why people are so against more content, even if it isn't content they are interested in, is beyond me. If that starts to impact their sales numbers due to people sinking their threads. Then hopefully PWE's desire to accumulate more money will be the kick in the rear they need to do away with this silly system.
Not suggesting anyone does this but it would highlight the stupidity of a system that shunts threads about based on voting up&down rather that how up to date or relevant they happen to be. Remove those two tags and it'd be marginally better.
However
If it ain't broke don't fix it or indeed poke it or add stuff to mess things up even if they distract away from the editmonster lurking in the background.
But yea... easy solution is to just outright remove the up/down vote options so they cannot be abused in order to manipulate the forums so show or hide any particular threads based on prejudices. Should also cut down a bit on malicious downvote attacks on specific users because they don't agree with their views.
A bit more complex would be to shift it to an agree/disagree, but not affect thread placement whatsoever.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Was this take ur kids to work for the day there idea
I've reduced the number of reactions to just Off Topic and Upvote/Downvote. See how you like that.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
That's interesting. Reading the feedback, I got the impression that "downvote" was the most unpopular option. Are the threads still rising/sinking based on the up- and downvotes they're getting? (I hope not).
Also, why are Spam/Abuse flaggings still public?
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
you went after the wrong one. insightful, awesome and LoL were just fine. you only needed to take out the down vote to keep from abuse.
besides this, are the moderators going to have a better time tracking threads that are downvoted now?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I agree with you. PLUS, I do not want posts moved up or down because of popularity or because of gossip or cliques controlling content.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin