Still not one shred of reporting about this from any news source, not one mention anywhere. Twitter, reddit, and youtube ARE NOT NEWS, and never have been. There is no shred of proof that any suit has even been filed.
That's what I'm saying... very scary that some folk treat this as a "real" news story just because it's on YouTube. Honestly, the gullibility of certain people is astounding.
Some Youtube channels have more credibility than official news outlets and it is likely that the future of news will be from credible Youtube channels rather than CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NY Times, etc. Youtube is a mix of the extremely good and extremely bad since anyone with journalistic integrity, insanity, or dishonesty can report the news.
So, ST:D could be getting get sued. If true, the only real question we should be debating would be, could CBS/ST:D lose?
Could they? Technically, yes.
Would they? I very much doubt it. If for no other reason than CBS likely has deeper pockets and could drag it out long enough that the guy goes broke or simply gives up. And even if some damning evidence came to light that could cause CBS to lose the case in court, they would then simply settle out of court.
Hello. My name is iamynaught and I am an altaholic.
So, ST:D could be getting get sued. If true, the only real question we should be debating would be, could CBS/ST:D lose?
Could they? Technically, yes.
Would they? I very much doubt it. If for no other reason than CBS likely has deeper pockets and could drag it out long enough that the guy goes broke or simply gives up. And even if some damning evidence came to light that could cause CBS to lose the case in court, they would then simply settle out of court.
And at this point the case seems to be paper thin, and not of enough substance to stand up in court.
According to an interview with Rock Paper Shotgun (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/11/08/a-tale-of-two-tardigrades/), Abdin was extremely upset by the similarities between Tartigrades and Star Trek: Discovery. “I did not touch my computer at all,” says Abdin. “I was too scared to log on my email or any other social media outlet. I felt some lawyer is going to call me any moment telling me I cannot continue developing Tardigrades”.
“My ideal outcome,” concludes Abdin, “is to get addressed by the producers and [know that they’ll] let me be, to finish my project.”
This is simultaneously paranoid(since CBS didn't contact him), and a rather pathetic cry for attention.
According to an email Abdin sent to YouTuber Doomcock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByduvAexiKI
Abdin was contacted via email by CBS legal after his interview with Rock Paper Shotgun. Abdin sent a reply directing CBS legal to his lawyers, but they appeared reluctant to do so. Eventually, Abdin was able to get into a Skype call so that CBS could deliver terms. According to Abdin, CBS would no longer use the tartigrade character and they would not sue him for plagiarism. However, Abdin states that CBS refused to follow up on the call and now he feels compelled to go forward with legal proceedings to protect his work.
It seems to me this could all have been avoided if CBS just followed through on providing Abdin with legal documents stating "we will not sue for plagiarism". As far as I can tell, that is all the game's creator wants, regardless of the spin others put on it. He is not trying to destroy TRIBBLE. He is not trying to "get them moneys". He just wants an assurance that CBS's rabid legal team wont chew his genitals off if he tries to make money from his game.
I'm not convinced it was CBS that contacted him. Nothing of substance was discussed outside of Skype despite multiple emails being exchanged? Sounds like someone who doesn't want attribution. That part feels like he may have been trolled.
Doomcock's interview has several interesting bits of history regarding the case. I numbered it based on the paragraph structure of Doomcock's email.
1a: Anas Abdin claims to have never seen Discovery prior to multiple IP lawyers volunteering to take the case.
1b: He also claims that he watched it because friends and fans of his project urged him to.
1c: And that he spent quite a lot of time making lists of similarities while watching the show.
1d: why did multiple lawyers send him emails volunteering? were they fishing for clients?
3: he mentions a lot of "striking similarities" most of which are little more than vague resemblances.
3a: he does mention a detail that I'd not encountered earlier about how Yolanda(the character allegedly similar to Burnham) is accused of treason at some point. (again only a vague whiff of similarity)
3b: he describes Discovery as having an "Egyptian atmosphere"... lol wut?
3c: allegedly the case file is just some of the similarities as he could "go on forever"
4: CBS apparently doesn't care about his game's existence.
5: He claims that he was emailed by CBS in response to an interview posted by "Rock Paper Shotgun". This is suspicious since the CBS side of the process didn't make any firm statements until he talked to them via Skype. Which was allegedly meant as a start of negotiations, but was the only actual contact.
~speculation~ Did Anas Abdin ever verify that he was ACTUALLY talking to a representative of CBS?
6: Wow, Now THAT is a leading question! Doomcock phrased it was if Axanar was innocent of wrong doing and shut down for being popular.
6a: Anas claims he hadn't heard of it before Doomcock asked about it.
8: apparently one or more people tried to hack Anas's Twitter. The way it's brought up makes it feel like Anas's trying to paint it as the work of CBS...
Interesting insights. Makes me think Abdin is the victim of Discovery haters. The case wasn't his idea, and he basically got talked into it by supporters and lawyers.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
No he absolutely did not. For reference: here's his development thread.
It's the name of his game and it's the d@mn logo.
Yup, Tardigrades. Not "large man sized tardigrades that are directly involved in FTL space travel." The content people are claiming Discovery plagiarized was not public until July 2017. It is practically impossible for DSC to have lifted Anas's Tardigrade concept for their show. Other character details cited as being plagiarized from the the protagonists of the game (ie. the relationship between Carter+Aziz, Aziz's ethnicity) were unveiled (apparently) ~6 months after Discovery announced its casting decisions and characters details began to emerge. Furthermore, the plagiarism campaign has omitted relevant information (ex. Yolanda being a communications officer in the Uhura mold) or simply got basic information regarding the game wrong (Carter isn't the guy with blond sideburns, the two share scenes in art which premiered Nov 2016.)
The case is not well supported and this from simply quoting dates and details available from the primary source of information (the dev's own blog, linked previously, which can be corroborated through his youtube postings.) Quoting secondary sources in response is inadequate, you need to do better in arguing your case than by repeating second-hand misinformation with a louder voice (as if that has any function beyond illustrating your own interests in this matter.)
Its all starting to feel more and more fishy to me.
Given the dedication to misinformation, amplifying it, and a lack of basic investigation (ex. who's the main character), I'm lumping it with a general internet harassment campaign of a major pop-culture studio. It's unfortunately starting to become more common given the current state of social media (youtube and twitter in particular.) So, definitely evaluate punditry on the matter critically, beware of demagoguery, ask for verifiable documentation, and dig into the primary source material wherever possible.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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Still not one shred of reporting about this from any news source, not one mention anywhere. Twitter, reddit, and youtube ARE NOT NEWS, and never have been. There is no shred of proof that any suit has even been filed.
Actually, I've found references to it on a few gaming sites, e.g. Rock, Paper, Shotgun. Which, that article actually looks to be pretty fair coverage.
Whereas the only mentions of tardigrades from a brief search of NPR.org are science articles about actual tardigrades.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Some Youtube channels have more credibility than official news outlets
Midnight's Edge is most definitely not one of them.
Never said he was. I said anyone with insanity can report the news on Youtube which probably applies to his case since I never watched his Youtube channel. However, my post was based on the fact that more and more people are getting their news from Youtube channels rather than conventional methods.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
Never said he was. I said anyone with insanity can report the news on Youtube which probably applies to his case since I never watched his Youtube channel. However, my post was based on the fact that more and more people are getting their news from Youtube channels rather than conventional methods.
The problem with that is that you can EASILY have a War of the Worlds scenario. The original War of the Worlds was a radio drama set up to sound real. If people didn't catch the disclaimer at the beginning saying it was a radio drama and not real, people honestly believed Earth was being invaded by Mars and panicked.
YouTubers might not be so kind to put up such a disclaimer and just report what they want, and people will believe it because "Its on the internet, it has to be true". Hell... there's a couple channels that analyse various things, be it organizations or characters, from different franchises. And they do it in a way that makes it look like they are actually doing profiles on real things from alternate realities. Its clever and pretty cool, but still drawing from fiction.
REAL news would get lost in the noise, and would not be as easily identifiable as real.
I'm not saying that its not a good source of news, as I have watched a couple things myself, but they were more tied to Entertainment stuff like announcements and background stuff regarding movies. For example it's been hinted in viral marketing for Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom that the Spinosaurus from Jurassic Park III might have actually been the first Hybrid, which is kinda backed up by the fact Alan Grant was familiar with the list of Dinosaurs InGen recreated and the Spinosaurus wasn't on the list. They may have had embryos or genetic data, but no actual specimens like what was encountered on Isla Sorna. And that thing was HIGHLY aggressive, alot like the I-Rex.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I watched the video you posted Markhawkman about the game play footage, the first part/intro is based off of the first part/intro of the original Dune movie released in 1984. which I linked below: I'm not sure the guy/game maker has much to stand on, though I am no expert on the legal side of things.
YouTube? Seriously? Do I need to repeat again the caution about believing anything on YouTube? (Marble Hornets, EverymanHYBRID, TribeTwelve, the series my son is addicted to showing a young man in his late teens or early twenties apparently destroying tens of thousands of dollars in electronic equipment for stupid reasons...)
Its all starting to feel more and more fishy to me.
Given the dedication to misinformation, amplifying it, and a lack of basic investigation (ex. who's the main character), I'm lumping it with a general internet harassment campaign of a major pop-culture studio. It's unfortunately starting to become more common given the current state of social media (youtube and twitter in particular.) So, definitely evaluate punditry on the matter critically, beware of demagoguery, ask for verifiable documentation, and dig into the primary source material wherever possible.
Yeah, after reading the Doomcock interview, I'm wondering how much of this was Anas's idea and how much was other people manipulating him. I mean his first viewing of Discovery he spent his time watching making a list of everything that was even vaguely similar. I mean the way the Doomcock interview was phrased it came across as if he though "light skinned woman with wavy red hair" was actually a unique character design.
YouTubers might not be so kind to put up such a disclaimer and just report what they want, and people will believe it because "Its on the internet, it has to be true". Hell... there's a couple channels that analyse various things, be it organizations or characters, from different franchises. And they do it in a way that makes it look like they are actually doing profiles on real things from alternate realities. Its clever and pretty cool, but still drawing from fiction.
Around here we have this magazine named "Home & Garden". One of the recurring article series they do is to take a plant or animal in each issue and discuss it's value as part of a home garden environment. For example: it might be a plant like Goldenrod, some people think it's pretty, some hate it because it makes them sneeze. Well, one year as an April fool's joke they did the article on Mothra.
I'm sure most people got the joke, but those who had no idea what Mothra was probably didn't.
This breaking: Water is Wet, and Youtube is not a source!! see more on Cable Newslike Infotainment Product, where we'll pretend to be objective and tell you what you should think about our Non-Stories, but first, six hours of obsessing on celebrities who are famous mostly for being Famous!!!
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I watched the video you posted Markhawkman about the game play footage, the first part/intro is based off of the first part/intro of the original Dune movie released in 1984. which I linked below: I'm not sure the guy/game maker has much to stand on, though I am no expert on the legal side of things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H5jeLxUy-0
Truth is, I don't think the case will ever get prosecuted. when you closely examine the list of "striking similarities" most are paper thin. One of them is that both have a TRIBBLE Caucasian blonde guy. That's not evidence of plagiarism. Now he does mention that both characters have their romantic partner die.... but in very different ways. And he actually felt the need to try to say the idea of having an Irish stereotype as a member of the crew was plagiarism. Seriously? Near-albino pale skin and wavy red hair is not a unique look, it's the most stereotypically Irish thing short of wearing a Shamrock while drinking beer. This seems to be the foundation of the case, a long list of trivial similarities that aren't actually all that similar.
I'm expecting him to get laughed out of court or worse. Especially if CBS's lawyers get mean. Why? because Anas wasn't particularly creative and often was rather blatant about borrowing concepts.... and in one case a sound clip of a monologue. CBS's counter-case will probably demonstrate how his game doesn't look like Discovery, and do so by showing the parts of it obviously inspired by previous works. Abdin's case is potentially professional suicide. Seriously, he has a machine nearly identical to a https://avp.wikia.com/wiki/P-5000_Powered_Work_Loader in his game.... and he's going to sue CBS for ripping HIM off?
Ok the opening monologue isn't word-for-word the same, but pretty close.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I could see CBS winning this lawsuit, they have the financial clout to win the case. An indie developer does not stand a chance.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Asari are a special case - somehow they manage to be attractive to humans, salarians, turians (who have a different chirality to their DNA, for crying out loud!), and freaking krogan. (The barkeep on Ilium was the daughter of an asari matriarch and a krogan warlord - lots of fighting, lots of making up, and she inherited her dad's mouth.)
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Fun part there is that for salarians and turians, asari shouldn't be - turians are similar to metallic, bipedal birds, and salarians have cloaca (and apparently aren't really built to enjoy sex - the one in the bar, on the verge of entering his mating contract, didn't understand why his human and turian buddies wanted to throw him a "bachelor party", and really didn't understand why he was supposed to find the dancing asari entertaining, which kind of freaked him when he realized that it was).
Not sure what I find worse, we find out that all aliens look like us or we are the ugliest aliens. All aliens looking like us would certainly make interstellar relations far easier, but so boring.
Comments
Some Youtube channels have more credibility than official news outlets and it is likely that the future of news will be from credible Youtube channels rather than CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NY Times, etc. Youtube is a mix of the extremely good and extremely bad since anyone with journalistic integrity, insanity, or dishonesty can report the news.
Could they? Technically, yes.
Would they? I very much doubt it. If for no other reason than CBS likely has deeper pockets and could drag it out long enough that the guy goes broke or simply gives up. And even if some damning evidence came to light that could cause CBS to lose the case in court, they would then simply settle out of court.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
Doomcock's interview has several interesting bits of history regarding the case. I numbered it based on the paragraph structure of Doomcock's email.
1a: Anas Abdin claims to have never seen Discovery prior to multiple IP lawyers volunteering to take the case.
1b: He also claims that he watched it because friends and fans of his project urged him to.
1c: And that he spent quite a lot of time making lists of similarities while watching the show.
1d: why did multiple lawyers send him emails volunteering? were they fishing for clients?
3: he mentions a lot of "striking similarities" most of which are little more than vague resemblances.
3a: he does mention a detail that I'd not encountered earlier about how Yolanda(the character allegedly similar to Burnham) is accused of treason at some point. (again only a vague whiff of similarity)
3b: he describes Discovery as having an "Egyptian atmosphere"... lol wut?
3c: allegedly the case file is just some of the similarities as he could "go on forever"
4: CBS apparently doesn't care about his game's existence.
5: He claims that he was emailed by CBS in response to an interview posted by "Rock Paper Shotgun". This is suspicious since the CBS side of the process didn't make any firm statements until he talked to them via Skype. Which was allegedly meant as a start of negotiations, but was the only actual contact.
~speculation~ Did Anas Abdin ever verify that he was ACTUALLY talking to a representative of CBS?
6: Wow, Now THAT is a leading question! Doomcock phrased it was if Axanar was innocent of wrong doing and shut down for being popular.
6a: Anas claims he hadn't heard of it before Doomcock asked about it.
8: apparently one or more people tried to hack Anas's Twitter. The way it's brought up makes it feel like Anas's trying to paint it as the work of CBS...
Interesting insights. Makes me think Abdin is the victim of Discovery haters. The case wasn't his idea, and he basically got talked into it by supporters and lawyers.
My character Tsin'xing
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Yup, Tardigrades. Not "large man sized tardigrades that are directly involved in FTL space travel." The content people are claiming Discovery plagiarized was not public until July 2017. It is practically impossible for DSC to have lifted Anas's Tardigrade concept for their show. Other character details cited as being plagiarized from the the protagonists of the game (ie. the relationship between Carter+Aziz, Aziz's ethnicity) were unveiled (apparently) ~6 months after Discovery announced its casting decisions and characters details began to emerge. Furthermore, the plagiarism campaign has omitted relevant information (ex. Yolanda being a communications officer in the Uhura mold) or simply got basic information regarding the game wrong (Carter isn't the guy with blond sideburns, the two share scenes in art which premiered Nov 2016.)
The case is not well supported and this from simply quoting dates and details available from the primary source of information (the dev's own blog, linked previously, which can be corroborated through his youtube postings.) Quoting secondary sources in response is inadequate, you need to do better in arguing your case than by repeating second-hand misinformation with a louder voice (as if that has any function beyond illustrating your own interests in this matter.)
Nuff said.
Given the dedication to misinformation, amplifying it, and a lack of basic investigation (ex. who's the main character), I'm lumping it with a general internet harassment campaign of a major pop-culture studio. It's unfortunately starting to become more common given the current state of social media (youtube and twitter in particular.) So, definitely evaluate punditry on the matter critically, beware of demagoguery, ask for verifiable documentation, and dig into the primary source material wherever possible.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Actually, I've found references to it on a few gaming sites, e.g. Rock, Paper, Shotgun. Which, that article actually looks to be pretty fair coverage.
But as far as mainstream news? Well, even the Crapsanar lawsuit was (briefly) covered on NPR: https://www.npr.org/2016/05/08/477257970/is-klingon-a-living-language-thats-for-human-courts-to-decide
Whereas the only mentions of tardigrades from a brief search of NPR.org are science articles about actual tardigrades.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Never said he was. I said anyone with insanity can report the news on Youtube which probably applies to his case since I never watched his Youtube channel. However, my post was based on the fact that more and more people are getting their news from Youtube channels rather than conventional methods.
The problem with that is that you can EASILY have a War of the Worlds scenario. The original War of the Worlds was a radio drama set up to sound real. If people didn't catch the disclaimer at the beginning saying it was a radio drama and not real, people honestly believed Earth was being invaded by Mars and panicked.
YouTubers might not be so kind to put up such a disclaimer and just report what they want, and people will believe it because "Its on the internet, it has to be true". Hell... there's a couple channels that analyse various things, be it organizations or characters, from different franchises. And they do it in a way that makes it look like they are actually doing profiles on real things from alternate realities. Its clever and pretty cool, but still drawing from fiction.
REAL news would get lost in the noise, and would not be as easily identifiable as real.
I'm not saying that its not a good source of news, as I have watched a couple things myself, but they were more tied to Entertainment stuff like announcements and background stuff regarding movies. For example it's been hinted in viral marketing for Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom that the Spinosaurus from Jurassic Park III might have actually been the first Hybrid, which is kinda backed up by the fact Alan Grant was familiar with the list of Dinosaurs InGen recreated and the Spinosaurus wasn't on the list. They may have had embryos or genetic data, but no actual specimens like what was encountered on Isla Sorna. And that thing was HIGHLY aggressive, alot like the I-Rex.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I'm sure most people got the joke, but those who had no idea what Mothra was probably didn't.
My character Tsin'xing
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
My character Tsin'xing
Properly, though, they're aliens. They shouldn't be "attractive" to us.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"