This might have something to do with it. Would you want to hold hands with people that murdered your entire species/planet only just a few decades ago?
"BASHIR: Eight hundred million dead. GARAK: And casualty reports still coming in. Well, aren't you going to congratulate me, Doctor? My exile is now officially over. I've returned home. Or rather, to what's left of it."
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
When we got the Delta Quadrant, how many new playable species did we get? The correct answer is one, the Talaxians, and only for LTS.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The Delta expansion wasn't a faction though. The Romulans were and so is - in my opinion - the Dominion. That's why I was hoping for more than just the Jham'Hadar.
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
I utterly support the addition of Vorta to the Dominion. And no we don't need to justify it. No more than the free will ex-drug addicted genocide warriors that are now being upgraded to be more compassionate to people and becoming freaking scientists... 'aka' Odo's Jem'Hadar Vanguard. And big NO to the suggestion that if Vorta are included we should handicap them in combat. -15/20% in weapon accuracy and dmg due to poor eyesight. If we are going to pull that stunt we may as well make all women -60 weaker in all dmg/hp and that didn't go very well over in Conan MMO. People don't want their race/gender weaker due to aesthetics. To be more realistic we should get the Jem'Hadar to -200 reduction on all stats (both space & ground) if the player stops consuming their white. How that for being accurate to head canon?
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> @terranempire#7881 said: > I utterly support the addition of Vorta to the Dominion. And no we don't need to justify it. No more than the free will ex-drug addicted genocide warriors that are now being upgraded to be more compassionate to people and becoming freaking scientists... 'aka' Odo's Jem'Hadar Vanguard. And big NO to the suggestion that if Vorta are included we should handicap them in combat. -15/20% in weapon accuracy and dmg due to poor eyesight. If we are going to pull that stunt we may as well make all women -60 weaker in all dmg/hp and that didn't go very well over in Conan MMO. People don't want their race/gender weaker due to aesthetics. To be more realistic we should get the Jem'Hadar to -200 reduction on all stats (both space & ground) if the player stops consuming their white. How that for being accurate to head canon?
Jem'hadar were never brainless warriors, they have to be able to run star ships so they are designed with a keen grasp of science and engineering, otherwise they couldn't run and maintain the complex star ship technology. Remember the episode where they captured the defiant and the crew were amazed by how fast the Jem'hadar were learning to fix the warpcore.
The Jem'hadar might be savage brutes, but they are extremely smart savage brutes and advanced scientific and egineering skills are a requirement of their job which invovles the use of extremely advanced technologies.
Nobody said they were brainless ofc they can operate their ships and some extent repair it. But they still have a primary function. Soldiers. I don't ever remember the Founder saying to Weyoun how is the progress going with our Jem'Hadar scientists? Did you? No. She said Vorta. Those are the men and women that oversee the plans/operations/science Division and new technologies not the damn Jem'Hadar. They operate it they don't create it. Big difference. Jaffa that serve the Goa'uld in Stargate aren't dumb either. But they are the foot soldiers of their Empire. They don't know how Goa'uld "magic" works. Same goes with the Jem.
Post edited by terranempire#7881 on
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> @eristhevorta said: > Cardassians are not playable for Romulans or Dominion though. I agree that they don't fit inside the Romulan Republic story arc, but why not the Dominion?
They don’t fit in the Klingon story arc but that didn’t stop cryptic, so why not Romulan or Dominion
> @terranempire#7881 said: > Nobody said they were brainless ofc they can operate their ships and some extent repair it. But they still have a primary function. Soldiers. I don't ever remember the Founder saying to Weyoun how is the progress going with our Jem'Hadar scientists? Did you? No. She said Vorta. Those are the men and women that oversee the plans/operations/science Division and new technologies not the damn Jem'Hadar. They operate it they don't create it. Big difference. Jaffa that serve the Goa'uld in Stargate aren't dumb either. But they are the foot soldiers of their Empire. They don't know how Goa'uld "magic" works. Same goes with the Jem.
The Jem'hadar aren't Jaffa, they do understand how the technology works, there is a reason they call them Jem'hadar ships, not Dominion ships, the Jem'hadar build and design them, fly them, maintain them. And they can be both Scientists, Engineers, Tacticians, as well as Soldiers, look at real world militaries have scientists and engineers and doctors among their ranks.
The Vorta dealt with the Founders disease because it didn't require military science or engineering, so Vorta sciencists were better suited to the task.
> @terranempire#7881 said:
> Nobody said they were brainless ofc they can operate their ships and some extent repair it. But they still have a primary function. Soldiers. I don't ever remember the Founder saying to Weyoun how is the progress going with our Jem'Hadar scientists? Did you? No. She said Vorta. Those are the men and women that oversee the plans/operations/science Division and new technologies not the damn Jem'Hadar. They operate it they don't create it. Big difference. Jaffa that serve the Goa'uld in Stargate aren't dumb either. But they are the foot soldiers of their Empire. They don't know how Goa'uld "magic" works. Same goes with the Jem.
The Jem'hadar aren't Jaffa, they do understand how the technology works, there is a reason they call them Jem'hadar ships, not Dominion ships, the Jem'hadar build and design them, fly them, maintain them. And they can be both Scientists, Engineers, Tacticians, as well as Soldiers, look at real world militaries have scientists and engineers and doctors among their ranks.
The Vorta dealt with the Founders disease because it didn't require military science or engineering, so Vorta sciencists were better suited to the task.
I would say that the actual research and development is primarily done by Vorta though. While Jem'hadar are capable of building and maintaining tech, they're not known for beinn all that skilled at inventing things.
I utterly support the addition of Vorta to the Dominion. And no we don't need to justify it. No more than the free will ex-drug addicted genocide warriors that are now being upgraded to be more compassionate to people and becoming freaking scientists... 'aka' Odo's Jem'Hadar Vanguard. And big NO to the suggestion that if Vorta are included we should handicap them in combat. -15/20% in weapon accuracy and dmg due to poor eyesight. If we are going to pull that stunt we may as well make all women -60 weaker in all dmg/hp and that didn't go very well over in Conan MMO. People don't want their race/gender weaker due to aesthetics. To be more realistic we should get the Jem'Hadar to -200 reduction on all stats (both space & ground) if the player stops consuming their white. How that for being accurate to head canon?
Scientists AND doctors/surgeons/medical professionals... registered medical professionals.
AND engineers - those that have studied aerospace engineering would have me stop with a "say no more" - for the Founders' sake! Not only that, technical fabrications, computer sciences, hyper-advanced futuristic fiber optics...
The fact that not even just Odo's enhanced Jem Vanguards can take upon and master those career paths throws the "Vorta can't do it" out the window.
Why people are so vehemently advocating a canonical standpoint for this non-canon game is beyond me.
Canon went STRAIGHT out the window the moment they unveiled their first lockbox and let slip(prematurely) the Galor-class starship to not only the Federation but to the Klingons as well.
Don't even get me started on UNDINE ships and the facepalm worthy *I C O N I A N* vessels.
I think we are well, WELL beyond the "can't do it becuz brek teh canonz" mark.
Hmm.. the engineered soldier/whatever aspect to the Jem'hadar and Vorta reminds me a lot of the Zentraedi in Macross. In Macross we found out that there was only one reason the Zentraedi didn't have children.... their creators lied to them and told them they had to make clones to perpetuate their race.
As for the Vorta? Maybe they just don't? Maybe they do? Truth is we've NEVER seen the origin story of ANY Vorta ever. We know they can be RE-created by cloning, and that they became the race they are because of Founder re-engineering, but not how this applies on a personal level.
The Jem'hadar? I personally suspect that even if there aren't any females there is no reason there can't be. It seems like a relatively simple thing to change.
Some speculated that the Jem'Hadar were once normal race that ended up being conquered and due to their aggression towards the Founders were punished and alterted to become their foot soldiers and to enforce their will. Destined to be their subservient minions for eternity. Or they really were just created from scratch. The first one certainly is more sinister, but the latter is just as cruel. The Founders don't care for their creation because to them they are solids and that contemptment makes the Jem'Hadar suffer regardless of their origins. Vorta I felt if the story is true by Weyoun were pretty much the opposite. They got rewarded for their courage. I don't think all Vorta are cloned. After all there still needs to be a original template. Maybe this is a prestige for Vorta that have served the Dominion so well that they are preserved and deemed essential/valuable.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Personally I always went with the theory that the Jem'Hadar were created from scratch by the Founders. Or perhaps that fragments of DNA from several different native GQ species were taken and combined together via genetically engineering to produce the Jem'Hadar.
Regardless of the origin of the species I've always felt sorry for the Jem'Hadar and the Heralds. Nothing but disposable tools for the Founders, given no more worth than a tricorder or a phaser or at best a ship despite the fact the Jem'Hadar have shown potential to be so much more. I took no satisfaction in killing what I term "genetic slaves."
As for the Vorta, in lacking any evidence to the contrary I've chosen to accept Wayoun's story and it sort of makes sense. The Vorta aren't worthless and disposable to the Founders. They're not a dime a dozen. The Vorta are Captains, Administrators, and scientists generally well protected and from what I recall, fairly well treated with some even being personal servants of particular founders.
Still, being do drastically altered just to serve.... I feel sorry for the Vorta too. And I wish we had the option to play as one or have some as boffs. Afterall if Odo is making his own breed of Jem'Hadar "Vanguard" then its equally plausible he made his own breed of combat-capable "Vorta Vanguard" too.
The Jem'hadar aren't Jaffa, they do understand how the technology works, there is a reason they call them Jem'hadar ships, not Dominion ships, the Jem'hadar build and design them, fly them, maintain them. And they can be both Scientists, Engineers, Tacticians, as well as Soldiers, look at real world militaries have scientists and engineers and doctors among their ranks.
The Vorta dealt with the Founders disease because it didn't require military science or engineering, so Vorta sciencists were better suited to the task.
Not seeing it. If Jem'Hadar had science officers they would have been able to heal Keevan when he was injured. So they defiantly don't have any Jem'Hadar doctors. Operating the equipment and making basic repairs doesn't make them scientists/inventors either. It be pretty damn stupid if the Founders made their super drug homicidal shock troopers to be self-sufficient to the point they could build Dominion warships in the dozens, tend to their own medical needs, and build new weapons without Founder/Vorta supervision. So they pretty much ARE like the Jaffa. They can do the basics but they can't run the entire organisation structure without their gods.
Jem'Hadar don't design and build the ships. They're called Jem'Hadar ships because they are mostly manned by them. In all intents and purposes they are Dominion ships. Vorta oversee the construction/designs and implementation of the upgrades (originally built by the Founders). They are built in automated super factories. Jem'Hadar don't build them at all.
Real world militaries aren't Jem'Hadar. You forget Jem'Hadar were created to be disposable. They don't have a Medical corps/Engineer Corps. Their ships are mass produced and easily replaced. They don't have science observatory/labs or medical bays. They were designed for one purpose to fight and die for the Dominion. Not self preserve themselves and invent/design.
When you see the baby Jem'Hadar with Odo in that episode. Odo tries to encourage him to be something else. A artist, a doctor, a inventor (whatever he wants) And all he wants to do is kill people and die for the founders. That what they were programmed to do. It will take more than a joke made by the devs on Ten Forward Weekly to retcon that away.
Regardless though it is a game and they can play Jem'Hadar medic if they want or freaking lustful party animal on Risa in swimsuit. But by that merit I want to play my Vorta tactical officer and I'll be damned if I get told I can't because of [insert reason] when I just gave you a good detail why they should be nothing but solider Jem'Hadar.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Vorta as the LTS race this time around to say sorry about the talaxians?
Just imagine the galactic storm of keech if they announce that!
Y E S.
God, YES.
Vorta are the premium race of the Gamma Quadrant.
Please, PLEASE. LET IT BE SO.
PLEASE, SAY, YES.
MAKE IT SO, CRYPTIC
I think i would start a new toon for this ...
I'd make two just for this. Right now it has put me off buying the Gamma pack until something other than Jem'Hadar is playable. I am not paying £100 for faction that is missing nearly 90% of its member races.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
But by that merit I want to play my Vorta tactical officer and I'll be damned if I get told I can't because of [insert reason] when I just gave you a good detail why they should be nothing but solider Jem'Hadar.
Eridian is a science officer... but she's a blue mage(mix of offense and defense) style wizard. Also she totally shoots people with a Polaron rifle.
Eridian is a science officer... but she's a blue mage(mix of offense and defense) style wizard. Also she totally shoots people with a Polaron rifle.
Nice! Now this is what I want to see implemented. After all it is the "Order of Things".
Let this be a reminder to all you Jem'Hadar that you still need to be kept on a leash. We already saw what happens when silly Alpha Jem'Hadar get too much free reign and initiative which leads to stupidity. Remember: "Obedience is Victory! And Victory is Life!"
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> @terranempire#7881 said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > > The Jem'hadar aren't Jaffa, they do understand how the technology works, there is a reason they call them Jem'hadar ships, not Dominion ships, the Jem'hadar build and design them, fly them, maintain them. And they can be both Scientists, Engineers, Tacticians, as well as Soldiers, look at real world militaries have scientists and engineers and doctors among their ranks. > > The Vorta dealt with the Founders disease because it didn't require military science or engineering, so Vorta sciencists were better suited to the task. > > > > > Not seeing it. If Jem'Hadar had science officers they would have been able to heal Keevan when he was injured. So they defiantly don't have any Jem'Hadar doctors. Operating the equipment and making basic repairs doesn't make them scientists/inventors either. It be pretty damn stupid if the Founders made their super drug homicidal shock troopers to be self-sufficient to the point they could build Dominion warships in the dozens, tend to their own medical needs, and build new weapons without Founder/Vorta supervision. So they pretty much ARE like the Jaffa. They can do the basics but they can't run the entire organisation structure without their gods. > > Jem'Hadar don't design and build the ships. They're called Jem'Hadar ships because they are mostly manned by them. In all intents and purposes they are Dominion ships. Vorta oversee the construction/designs and implementation of the upgrades (originally built by the Founders). They are built in automated super factories. Jem'Hadar don't build them at all. > > Real world militaries aren't Jem'Hadar. You forget Jem'Hadar were created to be disposable. They don't have a Medical corps/Engineer Corps. Their ships are mass produced and easily replaced. They don't have science observatory/labs or medical bays. They were designed for one purpose to fight and die for the Dominion. Not self preserve themselves and invent/design. > > When you see the baby Jem'Hadar with Odo in that episode. Odo tries to encourage him to be something else. A artist, a doctor, a inventor (whatever he wants) And all he wants to do is kill people and die for the founders. That what they were programmed to do. It will take more than a joke made by the devs on Ten Forward Weekly to retcon that away. > > Regardless though it is a game and they can play Jem'Hadar medic if they want or freaking lustful party animal on Risa in swimsuit. But by that merit I want to play my Vorta tactical officer and I'll be damned if I get told I can't because of [insert reason] when I just gave you a good detail why they should be nothing but solider Jem'Hadar.
They're science officers are likely of a more physics bent them Doctors, at least back then. Still the science officers may have died when Keevan's ships crashed.
> @mikoto8472 said: > Personally I always went with the theory that the Jem'Hadar were created from scratch by the Founders. Or perhaps that fragments of DNA from several different native GQ species were taken and combined together via genetically engineering to produce the Jem'Hadar. > > Regardless of the origin of the species I've always felt sorry for the Jem'Hadar and the Heralds. Nothing but disposable tools for the Founders, given no more worth than a tricorder or a phaser or at best a ship despite the fact the Jem'Hadar have shown potential to be so much more. I took no satisfaction in killing what I term "genetic slaves." > > As for the Vorta, in lacking any evidence to the contrary I've chosen to accept Wayoun's story and it sort of makes sense. The Vorta aren't worthless and disposable to the Founders. They're not a dime a dozen. The Vorta are Captains, Administrators, and scientists generally well protected and from what I recall, fairly well treated with some even being personal servants of particular founders. > > Still, being do drastically altered just to serve.... I feel sorry for the Vorta too. And I wish we had the option to play as one or have some as boffs. Afterall if Odo is making his own breed of Jem'Hadar "Vanguard" then its equally plausible he made his own breed of combat-capable "Vorta Vanguard" too.
I think the Heralds were treated better generally then Jem'hadar, bit at the end of the day the Iconians were as willing to sacrifice the lives of Heralds as any Founder.
I watched the Ep "one little ship" Jem'Hadar didn't know how to repair the Defiant's warp core or any of the circuitry without Sisko and the rest of his team. Sisko even goaded the Second Jem'Hadar Elder that he would need to spend 6 hrs trying to teach them the basics of engineering theory for warp drive. If they really are scientists and tech savvy they wouldn't need help. I am sure they could learn or be programmed to do so. But first glance they don't have expertise to do so other than battle tactics.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
So anybody know if Dominion/Jem'Hadar have their own unique transporter beam out/in FX appearance? Or do they just look the same as Starfleets?
Post edited by terranempire#7881 on
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Looking at Eris beaming out and a few other occasions they are blueish. Always puzzled me why the Dominion has rifles that fire blue and other times fire lilac/purple. Would make more sense if they stayed purple seeing as their shields/hull/warp nacelles are that colour.
Never mind found out myself. Looks like they used both colours. Looks pretty neat. Glad there is purple.
Not a big fan of devs putting random fed/kling npcs on the ships though (looks stupid and breaks my immersion). Why couldn't they keep Jem'Hadar & Vorta npcs on board the bridges/decks just like in the intro?
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
It would be sensible of the devs to just drop by now and then and say "yup, we get it, you want playable Vorta and are willing to pay for it".
Sure, whether they want to earn money or not will be a team decision (meaning the leaders of the team get to decide that, in most companies), but at least proven understanding that many fans want that... would be nice.
That's been mentioned in live streams. Literally EVERY live stream at least one person asks when we'll get playable Vorta.
It would be sensible of the devs to just drop by now and then and say "yup, we get it, you want playable Vorta and are willing to pay for it".
Sure, whether they want to earn money or not will be a team decision (meaning the leaders of the team get to decide that, in most companies), but at least proven understanding that many fans want that... would be nice.
That's been mentioned in live streams. Literally EVERY live stream at least one person asks when we'll get playable Vorta.
Maybe we can get @ambassadorkael#6946 to provide us confirmation on that subject? I know he mentioned it few weeks back that he was doing research in feedback to see how many people wanted playable Vorta. I think the amount of begging and Vorta posters/images and frequent posts of them suggests we want them badly.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> @terranempire#7881 said: > markhawkman wrote: » > > sophlogimo wrote: » > > It would be sensible of the devs to just drop by now and then and say "yup, we get it, you want playable Vorta and are willing to pay for it". > > Sure, whether they want to earn money or not will be a team decision (meaning the leaders of the team get to decide that, in most companies), but at least proven understanding that many fans want that... would be nice. > > > > That's been mentioned in live streams. Literally EVERY live stream at least one person asks when we'll get playable Vorta. > > > > > Maybe we can get @ambassadorkael#6946 to provide us confirmation on that subject? I know he mentioned it few weeks back that he was doing research in feedback to see how many people wanted playable Vorta. I think the amount of begging and Vorta posters/images and frequent posts of them suggests we want them badly. > > Come on @ambassadorkael#6946 throw us a bone.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Comments
"BASHIR: Eight hundred million dead.
GARAK: And casualty reports still coming in. Well, aren't you going to congratulate me, Doctor? My exile is now officially over. I've returned home. Or rather, to what's left of it."
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> I utterly support the addition of Vorta to the Dominion. And no we don't need to justify it. No more than the free will ex-drug addicted genocide warriors that are now being upgraded to be more compassionate to people and becoming freaking scientists... 'aka' Odo's Jem'Hadar Vanguard. And big NO to the suggestion that if Vorta are included we should handicap them in combat. -15/20% in weapon accuracy and dmg due to poor eyesight. If we are going to pull that stunt we may as well make all women -60 weaker in all dmg/hp and that didn't go very well over in Conan MMO. People don't want their race/gender weaker due to aesthetics. To be more realistic we should get the Jem'Hadar to -200 reduction on all stats (both space & ground) if the player stops consuming their white. How that for being accurate to head canon?
Jem'hadar were never brainless warriors, they have to be able to run star ships so they are designed with a keen grasp of science and engineering, otherwise they couldn't run and maintain the complex star ship technology. Remember the episode where they captured the defiant and the crew were amazed by how fast the Jem'hadar were learning to fix the warpcore.
The Jem'hadar might be savage brutes, but they are extremely smart savage brutes and advanced scientific and egineering skills are a requirement of their job which invovles the use of extremely advanced technologies.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> Cardassians are not playable for Romulans or Dominion though. I agree that they don't fit inside the Romulan Republic story arc, but why not the Dominion?
They don’t fit in the Klingon story arc but that didn’t stop cryptic, so why not Romulan or Dominion
> Nobody said they were brainless ofc they can operate their ships and some extent repair it. But they still have a primary function. Soldiers. I don't ever remember the Founder saying to Weyoun how is the progress going with our Jem'Hadar scientists? Did you? No. She said Vorta. Those are the men and women that oversee the plans/operations/science Division and new technologies not the damn Jem'Hadar. They operate it they don't create it. Big difference. Jaffa that serve the Goa'uld in Stargate aren't dumb either. But they are the foot soldiers of their Empire. They don't know how Goa'uld "magic" works. Same goes with the Jem.
The Jem'hadar aren't Jaffa, they do understand how the technology works, there is a reason they call them Jem'hadar ships, not Dominion ships, the Jem'hadar build and design them, fly them, maintain them. And they can be both Scientists, Engineers, Tacticians, as well as Soldiers, look at real world militaries have scientists and engineers and doctors among their ranks.
The Vorta dealt with the Founders disease because it didn't require military science or engineering, so Vorta sciencists were better suited to the task.
My character Tsin'xing
Y E S.
God, YES.
Vorta are the premium race of the Gamma Quadrant.
Please, PLEASE. LET IT BE SO.
PLEASE, SAY, YES.
MAKE IT SO, CRYPTIC.
Scientists AND doctors/surgeons/medical professionals... registered medical professionals.
AND engineers - those that have studied aerospace engineering would have me stop with a "say no more" - for the Founders' sake! Not only that, technical fabrications, computer sciences, hyper-advanced futuristic fiber optics...
The fact that not even just Odo's enhanced Jem Vanguards can take upon and master those career paths throws the "Vorta can't do it" out the window.
Why people are so vehemently advocating a canonical standpoint for this non-canon game is beyond me.
Canon went STRAIGHT out the window the moment they unveiled their first lockbox and let slip(prematurely) the Galor-class starship to not only the Federation but to the Klingons as well.
Don't even get me started on UNDINE ships and the facepalm worthy *I C O N I A N* vessels.
I think we are well, WELL beyond the "can't do it becuz brek teh canonz" mark.
As for the Vorta? Maybe they just don't? Maybe they do? Truth is we've NEVER seen the origin story of ANY Vorta ever. We know they can be RE-created by cloning, and that they became the race they are because of Founder re-engineering, but not how this applies on a personal level.
The Jem'hadar? I personally suspect that even if there aren't any females there is no reason there can't be. It seems like a relatively simple thing to change.
My character Tsin'xing
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Regardless of the origin of the species I've always felt sorry for the Jem'Hadar and the Heralds. Nothing but disposable tools for the Founders, given no more worth than a tricorder or a phaser or at best a ship despite the fact the Jem'Hadar have shown potential to be so much more. I took no satisfaction in killing what I term "genetic slaves."
As for the Vorta, in lacking any evidence to the contrary I've chosen to accept Wayoun's story and it sort of makes sense. The Vorta aren't worthless and disposable to the Founders. They're not a dime a dozen. The Vorta are Captains, Administrators, and scientists generally well protected and from what I recall, fairly well treated with some even being personal servants of particular founders.
Still, being do drastically altered just to serve.... I feel sorry for the Vorta too. And I wish we had the option to play as one or have some as boffs. Afterall if Odo is making his own breed of Jem'Hadar "Vanguard" then its equally plausible he made his own breed of combat-capable "Vorta Vanguard" too.
I think i would start a new toon for this ...
Not seeing it. If Jem'Hadar had science officers they would have been able to heal Keevan when he was injured. So they defiantly don't have any Jem'Hadar doctors. Operating the equipment and making basic repairs doesn't make them scientists/inventors either. It be pretty damn stupid if the Founders made their super drug homicidal shock troopers to be self-sufficient to the point they could build Dominion warships in the dozens, tend to their own medical needs, and build new weapons without Founder/Vorta supervision. So they pretty much ARE like the Jaffa. They can do the basics but they can't run the entire organisation structure without their gods.
Jem'Hadar don't design and build the ships. They're called Jem'Hadar ships because they are mostly manned by them. In all intents and purposes they are Dominion ships. Vorta oversee the construction/designs and implementation of the upgrades (originally built by the Founders). They are built in automated super factories. Jem'Hadar don't build them at all.
Real world militaries aren't Jem'Hadar. You forget Jem'Hadar were created to be disposable. They don't have a Medical corps/Engineer Corps. Their ships are mass produced and easily replaced. They don't have science observatory/labs or medical bays. They were designed for one purpose to fight and die for the Dominion. Not self preserve themselves and invent/design.
When you see the baby Jem'Hadar with Odo in that episode. Odo tries to encourage him to be something else. A artist, a doctor, a inventor (whatever he wants) And all he wants to do is kill people and die for the founders. That what they were programmed to do. It will take more than a joke made by the devs on Ten Forward Weekly to retcon that away.
Regardless though it is a game and they can play Jem'Hadar medic if they want or freaking lustful party animal on Risa in swimsuit. But by that merit I want to play my Vorta tactical officer and I'll be damned if I get told I can't because of [insert reason] when I just gave you a good detail why they should be nothing but solider Jem'Hadar.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I'd make two just for this. Right now it has put me off buying the Gamma pack until something other than Jem'Hadar is playable. I am not paying £100 for faction that is missing nearly 90% of its member races.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
My character Tsin'xing
Let this be a reminder to all you Jem'Hadar that you still need to be kept on a leash. We already saw what happens when silly Alpha Jem'Hadar get too much free reign and initiative which leads to stupidity. Remember: "Obedience is Victory! And Victory is Life!"
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> lordgyor wrote: »
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> The Jem'hadar aren't Jaffa, they do understand how the technology works, there is a reason they call them Jem'hadar ships, not Dominion ships, the Jem'hadar build and design them, fly them, maintain them. And they can be both Scientists, Engineers, Tacticians, as well as Soldiers, look at real world militaries have scientists and engineers and doctors among their ranks.
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> The Vorta dealt with the Founders disease because it didn't require military science or engineering, so Vorta sciencists were better suited to the task.
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> Not seeing it. If Jem'Hadar had science officers they would have been able to heal Keevan when he was injured. So they defiantly don't have any Jem'Hadar doctors. Operating the equipment and making basic repairs doesn't make them scientists/inventors either. It be pretty damn stupid if the Founders made their super drug homicidal shock troopers to be self-sufficient to the point they could build Dominion warships in the dozens, tend to their own medical needs, and build new weapons without Founder/Vorta supervision. So they pretty much ARE like the Jaffa. They can do the basics but they can't run the entire organisation structure without their gods.
>
> Jem'Hadar don't design and build the ships. They're called Jem'Hadar ships because they are mostly manned by them. In all intents and purposes they are Dominion ships. Vorta oversee the construction/designs and implementation of the upgrades (originally built by the Founders). They are built in automated super factories. Jem'Hadar don't build them at all.
>
> Real world militaries aren't Jem'Hadar. You forget Jem'Hadar were created to be disposable. They don't have a Medical corps/Engineer Corps. Their ships are mass produced and easily replaced. They don't have science observatory/labs or medical bays. They were designed for one purpose to fight and die for the Dominion. Not self preserve themselves and invent/design.
>
> When you see the baby Jem'Hadar with Odo in that episode. Odo tries to encourage him to be something else. A artist, a doctor, a inventor (whatever he wants) And all he wants to do is kill people and die for the founders. That what they were programmed to do. It will take more than a joke made by the devs on Ten Forward Weekly to retcon that away.
>
> Regardless though it is a game and they can play Jem'Hadar medic if they want or freaking lustful party animal on Risa in swimsuit. But by that merit I want to play my Vorta tactical officer and I'll be damned if I get told I can't because of [insert reason] when I just gave you a good detail why they should be nothing but solider Jem'Hadar.
They're science officers are likely of a more physics bent them Doctors, at least back then. Still the science officers may have died when Keevan's ships crashed.
> Personally I always went with the theory that the Jem'Hadar were created from scratch by the Founders. Or perhaps that fragments of DNA from several different native GQ species were taken and combined together via genetically engineering to produce the Jem'Hadar.
>
> Regardless of the origin of the species I've always felt sorry for the Jem'Hadar and the Heralds. Nothing but disposable tools for the Founders, given no more worth than a tricorder or a phaser or at best a ship despite the fact the Jem'Hadar have shown potential to be so much more. I took no satisfaction in killing what I term "genetic slaves."
>
> As for the Vorta, in lacking any evidence to the contrary I've chosen to accept Wayoun's story and it sort of makes sense. The Vorta aren't worthless and disposable to the Founders. They're not a dime a dozen. The Vorta are Captains, Administrators, and scientists generally well protected and from what I recall, fairly well treated with some even being personal servants of particular founders.
>
> Still, being do drastically altered just to serve.... I feel sorry for the Vorta too. And I wish we had the option to play as one or have some as boffs. Afterall if Odo is making his own breed of Jem'Hadar "Vanguard" then its equally plausible he made his own breed of combat-capable "Vorta Vanguard" too.
I think the Heralds were treated better generally then Jem'hadar, bit at the end of the day the Iconians were as willing to sacrifice the lives of Heralds as any Founder.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I would like to see this as well.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Never mind found out myself. Looks like they used both colours. Looks pretty neat. Glad there is purple.
Not a big fan of devs putting random fed/kling npcs on the ships though (looks stupid and breaks my immersion). Why couldn't they keep Jem'Hadar & Vorta npcs on board the bridges/decks just like in the intro?
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
My character Tsin'xing
Maybe we can get @ambassadorkael#6946 to provide us confirmation on that subject? I know he mentioned it few weeks back that he was doing research in feedback to see how many people wanted playable Vorta. I think the amount of begging and Vorta posters/images and frequent posts of them suggests we want them badly.
Come on @ambassadorkael#6946 throw us a bone.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> markhawkman wrote: »
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> sophlogimo wrote: »
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> It would be sensible of the devs to just drop by now and then and say "yup, we get it, you want playable Vorta and are willing to pay for it".
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> Sure, whether they want to earn money or not will be a team decision (meaning the leaders of the team get to decide that, in most companies), but at least proven understanding that many fans want that... would be nice.
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> That's been mentioned in live streams. Literally EVERY live stream at least one person asks when we'll get playable Vorta.
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> Maybe we can get @ambassadorkael#6946 to provide us confirmation on that subject? I know he mentioned it few weeks back that he was doing research in feedback to see how many people wanted playable Vorta. I think the amount of begging and Vorta posters/images and frequent posts of them suggests we want them badly.
>
> Come on @ambassadorkael#6946 throw us a bone.
Well I'll throw my support behind playable Vorta.
Thank you
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes