> @marty123#3757 said: > > @mirrorchaos said: > > lordgyor wrote: » > > > > > @terranempire#7881 said: > > > tilarta wrote: » > > > > > > oninotaki18 wrote: » > > > > > > Hey did anyone else notice that the cardassian intel flight deck cruise says “can utilize its Cardassian Cloaking Device”. What is a cardassian cloaking device? Are cardassians getting their own cloak, like romulans have their own battle cloak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's from this episode. > > > The Tal'Shiar outfitted Obsidian Order warships with cloaking devices for a joint assault on the Founder's homeworld. > > > So I'm assuming a Cardassian Cloaking device is just a borrowed Romulan Cloaking device, which would explain how it can battle cloak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has been 40 years since then. They would have built their own cloaks by now. > > > > Plus the Obisidian Order is filled with some of the best spies and thanks to the Dominion they have had plenty of time to study cloaking technology, especially they watched the Romulans putting cloaking tech on Cardassian ships and then later studying captured Klingon and Romulan vessels among others. So with time their scientists would easily have a head start on building a new cloaking tech designed to work with and take advantage of Cardassian Technology. > > > > One possiblity that make Cardassian Cloaks different is that maybe its more resistant to Antiproton Sweeps as they had plenty of time to study that technology as well during the Dominion war and have had the time to prefect it since. > > > > > > > > > > For all intents and purposes the Obsidian order was destroyed completely by the Dominion, a little before the Dominion war started up. The Dominion wanted to remove the Tal Shiar and Obsidian order because they are a threat to their capabilities. > > > > There is no Obsidian Order, nothing, it was destroyed. There is no study of technologies, there is no development of new technologies. i will state it one last time, the Obsidian Order was destroyed. Even if it had survived, it would take a lot longer for it to get back to a point where it can be the intelligence asset it once was because it would have to build up from nothing, that includes finding ways to bankroll the whole thing without leaving any trace of themselves or their activities. even 40 years wouldn't restore even a quarter of their previous ability with an intelligence group that complex. > > If Section 31 came back so can the Obsidian Order >
They killed most of the order, not everyone and they had no benifit in deleting files once Cardassia joined the Dominion. The survivors likely joined the Cardassian Intelligence Service.
PS the Tal Shiar survived having a huge amount of their membership and resources destroyed by the Dominion. If the Talk Shiar Survived, elements and Intel from the Obisidian Order could just as well have survived.
Do you honestly think these groups would pull every undercover spy, ever undercover asset, every handler, every data analyst, every manager they had into the operation, there by destroying their entire intelligence network?
When DS9 refered to the Talk Shiar and Obisidian order being destroyed in the Ambush, they were referring to the leadership and the influence of these groups, many of their best minds we're killed or captured, most of the leadership killed and a huge power vaccum left, and their reputations shredded, not destruction of every trace of these organizations.
The Cardassian Government after the Obisidian Order's defeat turned the Obisidian Order into the Cardassian Intelligence Service, but that doesn't mean they dumped every bit of Intel they'd gathered.
So technically these ships would likely be influenced by the CID not the Obisidian Order, but the CID is the heir of the Obidisian the way the former Soviet States inherited the Intel of the KGB and similar organizations.
The Obsidian Order got killed off in the Dominion war. Apparently some of the remnants that survived became part of the True Way. So there's not much left of the Order. Whatever's left probably got absorbed into the security forces of the current Cardassian government.
> @shpoks said: > markhawkman wrote: » > > The Obsidian Order got killed off in the Dominion war. Apparently some of the remnants that survived became part of the True Way. So there's not much left of the Order. Whatever's left probably got absorbed into the security forces of the current Cardassian government.
They killed most of the order, not everyone and they had no benifit in deleting files once Cardassia joined the Dominion. The survivors likely joined the Cardassian Intelligence Service.
PS the Tal Shiar survived having a huge amount of their membership and resources destroyed by the Dominion. If the Talk Shiar Survived, elements and Intel from the Obisidian Order could just as well have survived.
Do you honestly think these groups would pull every undercover spy, ever undercover asset, every handler, every data analyst, every manager they had into the operation, there by destroying their entire intelligence network?
When DS9 refered to the Talk Shiar and Obisidian order being destroyed in the Ambush, they were referring to the leadership and the influence of these groups, many of their best minds we're killed or captured, most of the leadership killed and a huge power vaccum left, and their reputations shredded, not destruction of every trace of these organizations.
The Cardassian Government after the Obisidian Order's defeat turned the Obisidian Order into the Cardassian Intelligence Service, but that doesn't mean they dumped every bit of Intel they'd gathered.
So technically these ships would likely be influenced by the CID not the Obisidian Order, but the CID is the heir of the Obidisian the way the former Soviet States inherited the Intel of the KGB and similar organizations.
There were survivors yes, but survivors alone doesn't make the Obsidian order, it just makes prisoners and retired agents. Also an intelligence unit leaves no trace of itself or its activities behind and with the Dominion on Cardassia it would of been impossible to set up the order, especially knowing the reason it was destroyed in the first place by the Dominion.
i do think they pulled every resource to work with the Tal Shiar on the Founders homeworld, Enabran Tain bet his entire career and life to stop the Dominion before it became a threat to Cardassia. What better way is there to defeat a threat to Cardassia than having the spies do it and be celebrated as heroes back home and embarassing the military. Besides this, the Order had many Keldons along side a lot DD's, that would mean that the Order would have to recall all their agents for a mission of this size and importance.
What you are left with is a few retired agents of the junior leadership who honestly have no idea what it takes to run the order, and without the reputation to be feared the order has lost its most valued resource which means it is dead. in addition: do you think the Dominion will just allow those spies to return to Cardassia without them being monitored? Enemy agents can be a valued resource to the Klingons and the Federation and Dominion security was ruthless when it came to tracking down informants and spies. For all intents and purposes the order is dead no matter what.
The Cardassian Intelligence Bureau is a completely new intelligence unit, a new intelligence unit was needed after the Obsidian Order was destroyed (and that is what i have been saying all along), it was ran by the Dominion when the Cardassian Union became a member of that power, it was obviously a lot more powerful than the order. There isn't any way the old order would be tolerated under the Dominion.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'm still curious what 'Requires the base game Star Trek Online on Arc in order to play' is supposed to mean, if preordering though Arc would just need you to log on to Arc once to get it on both platforms or if you'd have to buy it seperately on Steam.
I'd expect the former, but hate jumping to conclusions about something not even released yet.
I'm still curious what 'Requires the base game Star Trek Online on Arc in order to play' is supposed to mean, if preordering though Arc would just need you to log on to Arc once to get it on both platforms or if you'd have to buy it seperately on Steam.
I'd expect the former, but hate jumping to conclusions about something not even released yet.
it might be a simple oversight, a force of habit.
But then again PWE have been looking for a way to put all their products under one umbrella for a long time and the old installer and launcher to be made invalid. of course it didn't happen due to issues with ARC at the time. I wonder if there will be another push for to get it all under one DRM software?
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
@mirrorchaos
Oh, I hope they don't try to invalidate Steam as a method of playing Star Trek Online.
The primary concern from Cryptic's point of view is that I use the Steam Wallet transaction system to buy my C-Points.
So therefore, no Steam Client, no C-Point purchases.
Also, there's the fact that I use Steam to make screenshots of Star Trek Online.
If I need/want a screenshot fast, I literally just have to press one key and listen for the confirmation sound.
Mainly though, I don't like Arc because I have no need for it, I only play Star Trek Online, so needing a multigame launcher to enable every other game in their catalog serves no purpose.
Why get a launcher for several games when I only need a direct launcher for just one?
Does anyone have any idea how long it will be before the Gamma Vanguard pack is offered for Preorder on Steam?
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Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
> @mirrorchaos said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > They killed most of the order, not everyone and they had no benifit in deleting files once Cardassia joined the Dominion. The survivors likely joined the Cardassian Intelligence Service. > > PS the Tal Shiar survived having a huge amount of their membership and resources destroyed by the Dominion. If the Talk Shiar Survived, elements and Intel from the Obisidian Order could just as well have survived. > > Do you honestly think these groups would pull every undercover spy, ever undercover asset, every handler, every data analyst, every manager they had into the operation, there by destroying their entire intelligence network? > > When DS9 refered to the Talk Shiar and Obisidian order being destroyed in the Ambush, they were referring to the leadership and the influence of these groups, many of their best minds we're killed or captured, most of the leadership killed and a huge power vaccum left, and their reputations shredded, not destruction of every trace of these organizations. > > The Cardassian Government after the Obisidian Order's defeat turned the Obisidian Order into the Cardassian Intelligence Service, but that doesn't mean they dumped every bit of Intel they'd gathered. > > So technically these ships would likely be influenced by the CID not the Obisidian Order, but the CID is the heir of the Obidisian the way the former Soviet States inherited the Intel of the KGB and similar organizations. > > > > > There were survivors yes, but survivors alone doesn't make the Obsidian order, it just makes prisoners and retired agents. Also an intelligence unit leaves no trace of itself or its activities behind and with the Dominion on Cardassia it would of been impossible to set up the order, especially knowing the reason it was destroyed in the first place by the Dominion. > > i do think they pulled every resource to work with the Tal Shiar on the Founders homeworld, Enabran Tain bet his entire career and life to stop the Dominion before it became a threat to Cardassia. What better way is there to defeat a threat to Cardassia than having the spies do it and be celebrated as heroes back home and embarassing the military. Besides this, the Order had many Keldons along side a lot DD's, that would mean that the Order would have to recall all their agents for a mission of this size and importance. > > What you are left with is a few retired agents of the junior leadership who honestly have no idea what it takes to run the order, and without the reputation to be feared the order has lost its most valued resource which means it is dead. in addition: do you think the Dominion will just allow those spies to return to Cardassia without them being monitored? Enemy agents can be a valued resource to the Klingons and the Federation and Dominion security was ruthless when it came to tracking down informants and spies. For all intents and purposes the order is dead no matter what. > > The Cardassian Intelligence Bureau is a completely new intelligence unit, a new intelligence unit was needed after the Obsidian Order was destroyed (and that is what i have been saying all along), it was ran by the Dominion when the Cardassian Union became a member of that power, it was obviously a lot more powerful than the order. There isn't any way the old order would be tolerated under the Dominion.
I'm not suggesting the Obisidian Order rebuilt itself, I'm suggesting it left behind enough data to jump start a program to eventual develop their own cloaking technology for their ships. Dukat also had aquired a Bird of Prey from the Klingon Empire for Cardassia to study.
I'm not suggesting the Obisidian Order rebuilt itself, I'm suggesting it left behind enough data to jump start a program to eventual develop their own cloaking technology for their ships. Dukat also had aquired a Bird of Prey from the Klingon Empire for Cardassia to study.
Rememeber that the deal was between the two intellligence groups and Central Command had no idea about this. This tends to support the idea that the Order had left nothing to chance. They wouldn't of left anything behind to use when they departed for the GQ.
And let us suggest for the sake of it that there were Order operatives left behind who worked exclusively in Central Command and the Detapa council? They would of erased any last traces of intelligence activities long before the civilians and military got to the area to find out anyway. Also assuming there was any data to salvage? Without any resources there isn't any device they can work on, especially a cloaking device for Cardassian ship.
It would be far easier making a deal with the Romulan Republic for Cloaking devices in exchange for something from the Cardassian Union than it is wondering about the remote chance of the Order leaving behind something that anyone else can get ahold of and developing, especially with the Dominion around and the Intelligence Bureau. At least making that deal with the Republic, the military and civilian leadership can study these devices a little more freely than relying on an isolated intelligence group who could lord over the union with cloaking devices on their ships.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Negotiating with the Romulan Republic? You're joking right. A splinter group seperate from RSE giving them new tech to intergrate a clock design into new ships yet can barely support their small colony. Never liked the Republic faction either. They can make super sized Dreadnaughts in the dozens but can't support themselves without sucking to the feet of the Kdf and Feds & being assimilated by them. Bad fan fiction.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Negotiating with the Romulan Republic? You're joking right. A splinter group seperate from RSE giving them new tech to intergrate a clock design into new ships yet can barely support their small colony.
It is a creditable alternative and a lot less risks attached to it than dealing with the inperialists, the Cardassian Union could easily seek an arrangement with D'Tan. the Cardassian Union may have something the Republic may want as well, a mutual arrangement for two smaller factions, can prove to be of benefit.
Remember that Starfleet and the KDF wanted certain military tech the Republic were happy to trade away for support in building the Republic, why not have a gesture of good will with the Cardassians as well? There isn't any reason the Cardassians can't make an arrangement with the Republic for such devices.
I also doubt the RSE would give the Cardassians cloaks freely, there would of likely been strings attached to their use. It would be a lot more valuable to the Cardassians if the republic didn't have such demands when trading away cloaking tech.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Uh seems writing on a phone is a no-no. All that stuff I wrote was erased.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Negotiating with the Romulan Republic? You're joking right. A splinter group seperate from RSE giving them new tech to intergrate a clock design into new ships yet can barely support their small colony. Never liked the Republic faction either. They can make super sized Dreadnaughts in the dozens but can't support themselves without sucking to the feet of the Kdf and Feds & being assimilated by them. Bad fan fiction.
As I understand it, the Cardassians are mostly an Agarian/farming society now.
If they developed techniques to acclimatize/re-engineer plants to grow away from their native biospheres, that could be of interest to the Romulan Republic and might have been the subject of a trade agreement.
Especially since the RR are having to do exactly that, adjust their plants to suit Defera's biosphere.
But giving them cloaking devices when they have no active military ships to install them on sounds impractical.
I wonder though, are the RR laying claim to RSE captured ships?
I assume the RSE still has the capability to manufacture their fleets, as their ships are everywhere in the game.
Or in the case of defection, some disgruntled RSE commanders could simply be bringing their warships directly to the RR.
There will probably be a Cardassian costume option added to the C-Store or Lobi store at some point.
Not sure exactly how that implementation would go.
Would that costume only be accessible to a Cardassian playable captain or for all characters account wide?
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Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
> @tilarta said: > As I understand it, the Cardassians are mostly an Agarian/farming society now. > If they developed techniques to acclimatize/re-engineer plants to grow away from their native biospheres, that could be of interest to the Romulan Republic and might have been the subject of a trade agreement. > Especially since the RR are having to do exactly that, adjust their plants to suit Defera's biosphere. > But giving them cloaking devices when they have no active military ships to install them on sounds impractical. > > I wonder though, are the RR laying claim to RSE captured ships? > I assume the RSE still has the capability to manufacture their fleets, as their ships are everywhere in the game. > Or in the case of defection, some disgruntled RSE commanders could simply be bringing their warships directly to the RR. > > > There will probably be a Cardassian costume option added to the C-Store or Lobi store at some point. > Not sure exactly how that implementation would go. > Would that costume only be accessible to a Cardassian playable captain or for all characters account wide?
Honestly there is no technological advanced society that is primarily agarian/farming.
I could see 2% to maybe as high as 5% of the Cardassian work force being employed in farming, maybe higher say 10% to 25% in distant colonies, which is normal for an industrial civilization.
Honestly there is no technological advanced society that is primarily agarian/farming.
I could see 2% to maybe as high as 5% of the Cardassian work force being employed in farming, maybe higher say 10% to 25% in distant colonies, which is normal for an industrial civilization.
Not when there are billions of people to feed and fleets of ships are reduced to a smattering of a few convoys which just sneaks past the part where food shortages are a real risk of happening. It is probably a lot higher than that. remember that the union is a large area of space with lots of Cardassian colonies with a lot of people on each one, it isn't a simple matter of an arbitrary number. the overall number would have to be high enough to feed everyone and have enough surplus each month so when there is an issue, the reserves can be accessed and that means filling the reserves to feed every man, woman and child for a long enough amount of time.
It is probably as much as 25%-40% of the workforce, especially since the end of the war, no one can just escape the long term effects of something like that. reconstruction efforts, accounting for the dead, assessing the situation. it is more than likely Cardassia was looking for handouts from the Federation council when the war ended. even 40 years later the agrarian side of the union might still be struggling to keep up. They would need advanced methods of farming to keep up.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
> @mirrorchaos said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > Honestly there is no technological advanced society that is primarily agarian/farming. > > I could see 2% to maybe as high as 5% of the Cardassian work force being employed in farming, maybe higher say 10% to 25% in distant colonies, which is normal for an industrial civilization. > > > > > Not when there are billions of people to feed and fleets of ships are reduced to a smattering of a few convoys which just sneaks past the part where food shortages are a real risk of happening. It is probably a lot higher than that. remember that the union is a large area of space with lots of Cardassian colonies with a lot of people on each one, it isn't a simple matter of an arbitrary number. the overall number would have to be high enough to feed everyone and have enough surplus each month so when there is an issue, the reserves can be accessed and that means filling the reserves to feed every man, woman and child for a long enough amount of time. > > It is probably as much as 25%-40% of the workforce, especially since the end of the war, no one can just escape the long term effects of something like that. reconstruction efforts, accounting for the dead, assessing the situation. it is more than likely Cardassia was lookihandouts from the Federation council when the war ended. even 40 years later the agrarian side of the union might still be struggling to keep up. They would need advanced methods of farming to keep up.
For a period of say ten years while industry and Agriculture get rebuilt and fertile colonies expand to boost food production.
But once that has occurred even in Cardassia's dry climate with the technology they have plus the support of the federation and Klingon Empire, and Cardassian Colonies, Cardassian should be more then capable of producing enough to eat via technology that would employ only small amount of the Cardassian population.
Heck with the technology at at Cardassia's disposal even manufacturing when only employ a small minority of the population, most of the rest would be employed in the service industry, just like every single developed industrialized nation in the real world.
A nation starts out with the vast majority of it's populations employed in Agricultural sector, an industrial revolution changes this and eventual manufacturing replaces Agriculture as the dominate employer.
Over time the population employed by agriculture drops rapidly.
Then technology advances enough that those employed in manufacturing also plummets, replaced by a growing service industry.
This pattern is extremely reliable.
Yes wars, corruption, and so on can disrupt this proceed, set it back, slow it down, and so on, but eventually a society will get there.
And that is in nations whose prewarp technology is primitive compared to Cardassian technology, with Cardassian technology + Fed support, recovery would be extremely rapid and the service industry would dominate.
> @lazarus51166 said: > stark2k wrote: » > > Bummer, it is a "NO" on the Cardassian armor > > suckage, we have to either use Fed silly costumes, or KDF silly costumes - least the Jem Tact uniform maybe customizable to resemble a Cardy outfit. > > I rather have Cryptic sell Cardassian uniforms and weapons in the Lobi store. > > > > > What? kael said they were going to release the uniform in one of the livestreams
For a period of say ten years while industry and Agriculture get rebuilt and fertile colonies expand to boost food production.
But once that has occurred even in Cardassia's dry climate with the technology they have plus the support of the federation and Klingon Empire, and Cardassian Colonies, Cardassian should be more then capable of producing enough to eat via technology that would employ only small amount of the Cardassian population.
Heck with the technology at at Cardassia's disposal even manufacturing when only employ a small minority of the population, most of the rest would be employed in the service industry, just like every single developed industrialized nation in the real world.
A nation starts out with the vast majority of it's populations employed in Agricultural sector, an industrial revolution changes this and eventual manufacturing replaces Agriculture as the dominate employer.
Over time the population employed by agriculture drops rapidly.
Then technology advances enough that those employed in manufacturing also plummets, replaced by a growing service industry.
This pattern is extremely reliable.
Yes wars, corruption, and so on can disrupt this proceed, set it back, slow it down, and so on, but eventually a society will get there.
And that is in nations whose prewarp technology is primitive compared to Cardassian technology, with Cardassian technology + Fed support, recovery would be extremely rapid and the service industry would dominate.
After debating this for a number of pages now like a chess match, i'm going to knock the king down and call it a day on this match. I've known for all that time that none of this is about the discounted jem'hadar packs, but it is one of those indepth discussions that could last a long time and should have its own thread .
Anyway basically what i am saying is that i've gone off topic long enough and i don't see an end to it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
suckage, we have to either use Fed silly costumes, or KDF silly costumes - least the Jem Tact uniform maybe customizable to resemble a Cardy outfit.
I rather have Cryptic sell Cardassian uniforms and weapons in the Lobi store.
What? kael said they were going to release the uniform in one of the livestreams
Clarification: during a livestream, Kael said that Cardassian uniforms were coming. He didn't say how IIRC (possibilities include C-store, Lobi-store, mission reward, and promotional giveaway. Details will come in future.)
Negotiating with the Romulan Republic? You're joking right. A splinter group seperate from RSE giving them new tech to intergrate a clock design into new ships yet can barely support their small colony. Never liked the Republic faction either. They can make super sized Dreadnaughts in the dozens but can't support themselves without sucking to the feet of the Kdf and Feds & being assimilated by them. Bad fan fiction.
Oi...technological capacity and social development aren't co-linear. Groups can, for example, have incredible industrial capacity (because that's what their tech allows) but at the same time struggle with environmental and population issues. See. modern geopolitics.
Asking for help isn't a problem. It's, in fact, rather a major ethos of the Star Trek universe and arguably what allows the Republic (for whom New Romulus is only a capital) to both support its population and field a modern fleet.
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Is there a female option for the Jem’Hadar Vanguard Species?
Canonically, there are no Jem'Hadar females.
Bummer, this is what I thought. I was hoping, though, that somewhere I might have missed something.
Still...AWESOME!!!!! Hubby and I are very excited about this! This is the first expansion where he has planned to buy the pack and he will be purchading the lifetime as well.
So dear Cryptic, when will you finally please tell us how to obtain the Cardassians seperate from the extremely expensive pack? I only want the species, not 1000 ships...
> @jiralinria said: > So dear Cryptic, when will you finally please tell us how to obtain the Cardassians seperate from the extremely expensive pack? I only want the species, not 1000 ships...
Just a hypotheses but I think if you buy any Cardassian ships at all it will open access to Cardassians.
And odds are they will have a bundle for Cardassian ships akin to the 31st Century Temporal Cross Faction bundle. So a single ship for $30 (3000zen) and the 3 Cardassian ship bundle for $60 (or 6,000Zen). So far I'm 50% of the way to earning enough Zen for all three ships.
Comments
no idea on what free ship everyone gets with the expan... you can get a one use T5 bug ship via phoenix boxes.
waiting on more info... frankly $130 for 6 T6 ships to me is not worth it for cash up front.
> > @mirrorchaos said:
> > lordgyor wrote: »
> >
> > > @terranempire#7881 said:
> > > tilarta wrote: »
> > >
> > > oninotaki18 wrote: »
> > >
> > > Hey did anyone else notice that the cardassian intel flight deck cruise says “can utilize its Cardassian Cloaking Device”. What is a cardassian cloaking device? Are cardassians getting their own cloak, like romulans have their own battle cloak?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's from this episode.
> > > The Tal'Shiar outfitted Obsidian Order warships with cloaking devices for a joint assault on the Founder's homeworld.
> > > So I'm assuming a Cardassian Cloaking device is just a borrowed Romulan Cloaking device, which would explain how it can battle cloak.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It has been 40 years since then. They would have built their own cloaks by now.
> >
> > Plus the Obisidian Order is filled with some of the best spies and thanks to the Dominion they have had plenty of time to study cloaking technology, especially they watched the Romulans putting cloaking tech on Cardassian ships and then later studying captured Klingon and Romulan vessels among others. So with time their scientists would easily have a head start on building a new cloaking tech designed to work with and take advantage of Cardassian Technology.
> >
> > One possiblity that make Cardassian Cloaks different is that maybe its more resistant to Antiproton Sweeps as they had plenty of time to study that technology as well during the Dominion war and have had the time to prefect it since.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For all intents and purposes the Obsidian order was destroyed completely by the Dominion, a little before the Dominion war started up. The Dominion wanted to remove the Tal Shiar and Obsidian order because they are a threat to their capabilities.
> >
> > There is no Obsidian Order, nothing, it was destroyed. There is no study of technologies, there is no development of new technologies. i will state it one last time, the Obsidian Order was destroyed. Even if it had survived, it would take a lot longer for it to get back to a point where it can be the intelligence asset it once was because it would have to build up from nothing, that includes finding ways to bankroll the whole thing without leaving any trace of themselves or their activities. even 40 years wouldn't restore even a quarter of their previous ability with an intelligence group that complex.
>
> If Section 31 came back so can the Obsidian Order
>
They killed most of the order, not everyone and they had no benifit in deleting files once Cardassia joined the Dominion. The survivors likely joined the Cardassian Intelligence Service.
PS the Tal Shiar survived having a huge amount of their membership and resources destroyed by the Dominion. If the Talk Shiar Survived, elements and Intel from the Obisidian Order could just as well have survived.
Do you honestly think these groups would pull every undercover spy, ever undercover asset, every handler, every data analyst, every manager they had into the operation, there by destroying their entire intelligence network?
When DS9 refered to the Talk Shiar and Obisidian order being destroyed in the Ambush, they were referring to the leadership and the influence of these groups, many of their best minds we're killed or captured, most of the leadership killed and a huge power vaccum left, and their reputations shredded, not destruction of every trace of these organizations.
The Cardassian Government after the Obisidian Order's defeat turned the Obisidian Order into the Cardassian Intelligence Service, but that doesn't mean they dumped every bit of Intel they'd gathered.
So technically these ships would likely be influenced by the CID not the Obisidian Order, but the CID is the heir of the Obidisian the way the former Soviet States inherited the Intel of the KGB and similar organizations.
> markhawkman wrote: »
>
> The Obsidian Order got killed off in the Dominion war. Apparently some of the remnants that survived became part of the True Way. So there's not much left of the Order. Whatever's left probably got absorbed into the security forces of the current Cardassian government.
Hahahaha outstanding
There were survivors yes, but survivors alone doesn't make the Obsidian order, it just makes prisoners and retired agents. Also an intelligence unit leaves no trace of itself or its activities behind and with the Dominion on Cardassia it would of been impossible to set up the order, especially knowing the reason it was destroyed in the first place by the Dominion.
i do think they pulled every resource to work with the Tal Shiar on the Founders homeworld, Enabran Tain bet his entire career and life to stop the Dominion before it became a threat to Cardassia. What better way is there to defeat a threat to Cardassia than having the spies do it and be celebrated as heroes back home and embarassing the military. Besides this, the Order had many Keldons along side a lot DD's, that would mean that the Order would have to recall all their agents for a mission of this size and importance.
What you are left with is a few retired agents of the junior leadership who honestly have no idea what it takes to run the order, and without the reputation to be feared the order has lost its most valued resource which means it is dead. in addition: do you think the Dominion will just allow those spies to return to Cardassia without them being monitored? Enemy agents can be a valued resource to the Klingons and the Federation and Dominion security was ruthless when it came to tracking down informants and spies. For all intents and purposes the order is dead no matter what.
The Cardassian Intelligence Bureau is a completely new intelligence unit, a new intelligence unit was needed after the Obsidian Order was destroyed (and that is what i have been saying all along), it was ran by the Dominion when the Cardassian Union became a member of that power, it was obviously a lot more powerful than the order. There isn't any way the old order would be tolerated under the Dominion.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'd expect the former, but hate jumping to conclusions about something not even released yet.
it might be a simple oversight, a force of habit.
But then again PWE have been looking for a way to put all their products under one umbrella for a long time and the old installer and launcher to be made invalid. of course it didn't happen due to issues with ARC at the time. I wonder if there will be another push for to get it all under one DRM software?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Oh, I hope they don't try to invalidate Steam as a method of playing Star Trek Online.
The primary concern from Cryptic's point of view is that I use the Steam Wallet transaction system to buy my C-Points.
So therefore, no Steam Client, no C-Point purchases.
Also, there's the fact that I use Steam to make screenshots of Star Trek Online.
If I need/want a screenshot fast, I literally just have to press one key and listen for the confirmation sound.
Mainly though, I don't like Arc because I have no need for it, I only play Star Trek Online, so needing a multigame launcher to enable every other game in their catalog serves no purpose.
Why get a launcher for several games when I only need a direct launcher for just one?
Does anyone have any idea how long it will be before the Gamma Vanguard pack is offered for Preorder on Steam?
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> They killed most of the order, not everyone and they had no benifit in deleting files once Cardassia joined the Dominion. The survivors likely joined the Cardassian Intelligence Service.
>
> PS the Tal Shiar survived having a huge amount of their membership and resources destroyed by the Dominion. If the Talk Shiar Survived, elements and Intel from the Obisidian Order could just as well have survived.
>
> Do you honestly think these groups would pull every undercover spy, ever undercover asset, every handler, every data analyst, every manager they had into the operation, there by destroying their entire intelligence network?
>
> When DS9 refered to the Talk Shiar and Obisidian order being destroyed in the Ambush, they were referring to the leadership and the influence of these groups, many of their best minds we're killed or captured, most of the leadership killed and a huge power vaccum left, and their reputations shredded, not destruction of every trace of these organizations.
>
> The Cardassian Government after the Obisidian Order's defeat turned the Obisidian Order into the Cardassian Intelligence Service, but that doesn't mean they dumped every bit of Intel they'd gathered.
>
> So technically these ships would likely be influenced by the CID not the Obisidian Order, but the CID is the heir of the Obidisian the way the former Soviet States inherited the Intel of the KGB and similar organizations.
>
>
>
>
> There were survivors yes, but survivors alone doesn't make the Obsidian order, it just makes prisoners and retired agents. Also an intelligence unit leaves no trace of itself or its activities behind and with the Dominion on Cardassia it would of been impossible to set up the order, especially knowing the reason it was destroyed in the first place by the Dominion.
>
> i do think they pulled every resource to work with the Tal Shiar on the Founders homeworld, Enabran Tain bet his entire career and life to stop the Dominion before it became a threat to Cardassia. What better way is there to defeat a threat to Cardassia than having the spies do it and be celebrated as heroes back home and embarassing the military. Besides this, the Order had many Keldons along side a lot DD's, that would mean that the Order would have to recall all their agents for a mission of this size and importance.
>
> What you are left with is a few retired agents of the junior leadership who honestly have no idea what it takes to run the order, and without the reputation to be feared the order has lost its most valued resource which means it is dead. in addition: do you think the Dominion will just allow those spies to return to Cardassia without them being monitored? Enemy agents can be a valued resource to the Klingons and the Federation and Dominion security was ruthless when it came to tracking down informants and spies. For all intents and purposes the order is dead no matter what.
>
> The Cardassian Intelligence Bureau is a completely new intelligence unit, a new intelligence unit was needed after the Obsidian Order was destroyed (and that is what i have been saying all along), it was ran by the Dominion when the Cardassian Union became a member of that power, it was obviously a lot more powerful than the order. There isn't any way the old order would be tolerated under the Dominion.
I'm not suggesting the Obisidian Order rebuilt itself, I'm suggesting it left behind enough data to jump start a program to eventual develop their own cloaking technology for their ships. Dukat also had aquired a Bird of Prey from the Klingon Empire for Cardassia to study.
Rememeber that the deal was between the two intellligence groups and Central Command had no idea about this. This tends to support the idea that the Order had left nothing to chance. They wouldn't of left anything behind to use when they departed for the GQ.
And let us suggest for the sake of it that there were Order operatives left behind who worked exclusively in Central Command and the Detapa council? They would of erased any last traces of intelligence activities long before the civilians and military got to the area to find out anyway. Also assuming there was any data to salvage? Without any resources there isn't any device they can work on, especially a cloaking device for Cardassian ship.
It would be far easier making a deal with the Romulan Republic for Cloaking devices in exchange for something from the Cardassian Union than it is wondering about the remote chance of the Order leaving behind something that anyone else can get ahold of and developing, especially with the Dominion around and the Intelligence Bureau. At least making that deal with the Republic, the military and civilian leadership can study these devices a little more freely than relying on an isolated intelligence group who could lord over the union with cloaking devices on their ships.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
It is a creditable alternative and a lot less risks attached to it than dealing with the inperialists, the Cardassian Union could easily seek an arrangement with D'Tan. the Cardassian Union may have something the Republic may want as well, a mutual arrangement for two smaller factions, can prove to be of benefit.
Remember that Starfleet and the KDF wanted certain military tech the Republic were happy to trade away for support in building the Republic, why not have a gesture of good will with the Cardassians as well? There isn't any reason the Cardassians can't make an arrangement with the Republic for such devices.
I also doubt the RSE would give the Cardassians cloaks freely, there would of likely been strings attached to their use. It would be a lot more valuable to the Cardassians if the republic didn't have such demands when trading away cloaking tech.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
> Uh seems writing on a phone is a no-no. All that stuff I wrote was erased.
Been there, that always sucks.
Well said!
suckage, we have to either use Fed silly costumes, or KDF silly costumes - least the Jem Tact uniform maybe customizable to resemble a Cardy outfit.
I rather have Cryptic sell Cardassian uniforms and weapons in the Lobi store.
If they developed techniques to acclimatize/re-engineer plants to grow away from their native biospheres, that could be of interest to the Romulan Republic and might have been the subject of a trade agreement.
Especially since the RR are having to do exactly that, adjust their plants to suit Defera's biosphere.
But giving them cloaking devices when they have no active military ships to install them on sounds impractical.
I wonder though, are the RR laying claim to RSE captured ships?
I assume the RSE still has the capability to manufacture their fleets, as their ships are everywhere in the game.
Or in the case of defection, some disgruntled RSE commanders could simply be bringing their warships directly to the RR.
There will probably be a Cardassian costume option added to the C-Store or Lobi store at some point.
Not sure exactly how that implementation would go.
Would that costume only be accessible to a Cardassian playable captain or for all characters account wide?
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
> As I understand it, the Cardassians are mostly an Agarian/farming society now.
> If they developed techniques to acclimatize/re-engineer plants to grow away from their native biospheres, that could be of interest to the Romulan Republic and might have been the subject of a trade agreement.
> Especially since the RR are having to do exactly that, adjust their plants to suit Defera's biosphere.
> But giving them cloaking devices when they have no active military ships to install them on sounds impractical.
>
> I wonder though, are the RR laying claim to RSE captured ships?
> I assume the RSE still has the capability to manufacture their fleets, as their ships are everywhere in the game.
> Or in the case of defection, some disgruntled RSE commanders could simply be bringing their warships directly to the RR.
>
>
> There will probably be a Cardassian costume option added to the C-Store or Lobi store at some point.
> Not sure exactly how that implementation would go.
> Would that costume only be accessible to a Cardassian playable captain or for all characters account wide?
Honestly there is no technological advanced society that is primarily agarian/farming.
I could see 2% to maybe as high as 5% of the Cardassian work force being employed in farming, maybe higher say 10% to 25% in distant colonies, which is normal for an industrial civilization.
Not when there are billions of people to feed and fleets of ships are reduced to a smattering of a few convoys which just sneaks past the part where food shortages are a real risk of happening. It is probably a lot higher than that. remember that the union is a large area of space with lots of Cardassian colonies with a lot of people on each one, it isn't a simple matter of an arbitrary number. the overall number would have to be high enough to feed everyone and have enough surplus each month so when there is an issue, the reserves can be accessed and that means filling the reserves to feed every man, woman and child for a long enough amount of time.
It is probably as much as 25%-40% of the workforce, especially since the end of the war, no one can just escape the long term effects of something like that. reconstruction efforts, accounting for the dead, assessing the situation. it is more than likely Cardassia was looking for handouts from the Federation council when the war ended. even 40 years later the agrarian side of the union might still be struggling to keep up. They would need advanced methods of farming to keep up.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
What? kael said they were going to release the uniform in one of the livestreams
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> Honestly there is no technological advanced society that is primarily agarian/farming.
>
> I could see 2% to maybe as high as 5% of the Cardassian work force being employed in farming, maybe higher say 10% to 25% in distant colonies, which is normal for an industrial civilization.
>
>
>
>
> Not when there are billions of people to feed and fleets of ships are reduced to a smattering of a few convoys which just sneaks past the part where food shortages are a real risk of happening. It is probably a lot higher than that. remember that the union is a large area of space with lots of Cardassian colonies with a lot of people on each one, it isn't a simple matter of an arbitrary number. the overall number would have to be high enough to feed everyone and have enough surplus each month so when there is an issue, the reserves can be accessed and that means filling the reserves to feed every man, woman and child for a long enough amount of time.
>
> It is probably as much as 25%-40% of the workforce, especially since the end of the war, no one can just escape the long term effects of something like that. reconstruction efforts, accounting for the dead, assessing the situation. it is more than likely Cardassia was lookihandouts from the Federation council when the war ended. even 40 years later the agrarian side of the union might still be struggling to keep up. They would need advanced methods of farming to keep up.
For a period of say ten years while industry and Agriculture get rebuilt and fertile colonies expand to boost food production.
But once that has occurred even in Cardassia's dry climate with the technology they have plus the support of the federation and Klingon Empire, and Cardassian Colonies, Cardassian should be more then capable of producing enough to eat via technology that would employ only small amount of the Cardassian population.
Heck with the technology at at Cardassia's disposal even manufacturing when only employ a small minority of the population, most of the rest would be employed in the service industry, just like every single developed industrialized nation in the real world.
A nation starts out with the vast majority of it's populations employed in Agricultural sector, an industrial revolution changes this and eventual manufacturing replaces Agriculture as the dominate employer.
Over time the population employed by agriculture drops rapidly.
Then technology advances enough that those employed in manufacturing also plummets, replaced by a growing service industry.
This pattern is extremely reliable.
Yes wars, corruption, and so on can disrupt this proceed, set it back, slow it down, and so on, but eventually a society will get there.
And that is in nations whose prewarp technology is primitive compared to Cardassian technology, with Cardassian technology + Fed support, recovery would be extremely rapid and the service industry would dominate.
> stark2k wrote: »
>
> Bummer, it is a "NO" on the Cardassian armor
>
> suckage, we have to either use Fed silly costumes, or KDF silly costumes - least the Jem Tact uniform maybe customizable to resemble a Cardy outfit.
>
> I rather have Cryptic sell Cardassian uniforms and weapons in the Lobi store.
>
>
>
>
> What? kael said they were going to release the uniform in one of the livestreams
Which live stream?
After debating this for a number of pages now like a chess match, i'm going to knock the king down and call it a day on this match. I've known for all that time that none of this is about the discounted jem'hadar packs, but it is one of those indepth discussions that could last a long time and should have its own thread
Anyway basically what i am saying is that i've gone off topic long enough and i don't see an end to it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Clarification: during a livestream, Kael said that Cardassian uniforms were coming. He didn't say how IIRC (possibilities include C-store, Lobi-store, mission reward, and promotional giveaway. Details will come in future.)
Oi...technological capacity and social development aren't co-linear. Groups can, for example, have incredible industrial capacity (because that's what their tech allows) but at the same time struggle with environmental and population issues. See. modern geopolitics.
Asking for help isn't a problem. It's, in fact, rather a major ethos of the Star Trek universe and arguably what allows the Republic (for whom New Romulus is only a capital) to both support its population and field a modern fleet.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Still...AWESOME!!!!! Hubby and I are very excited about this! This is the first expansion where he has planned to buy the pack and he will be purchading the lifetime as well.
> So dear Cryptic, when will you finally please tell us how to obtain the Cardassians seperate from the extremely expensive pack? I only want the species, not 1000 ships...
Just a hypotheses but I think if you buy any Cardassian ships at all it will open access to Cardassians.
And odds are they will have a bundle for Cardassian ships akin to the 31st Century Temporal Cross Faction bundle. So a single ship for $30 (3000zen) and the 3 Cardassian ship bundle for $60 (or 6,000Zen). So far I'm 50% of the way to earning enough Zen for all three ships.