> @vampeiyre said:
> The trait has already been fixed to work as intended, on top of being nerfed as well. It definitely works, and it is VERY noticeable in its effectiveness kyle223cat wrote: »
>
> meimeitoo wrote: »
>
> davefenestrator wrote: »
>
> In other words, you like to vape people in PVP and don't want to learn some new tricks to counter a tanky ship?
>
>
>
>
>
> ^^ This!
>
>
>
>
> Pretty much. The trait didn't even change how survivable I was in PvP. In fact I think things got worse for survivability in PvP after the anniversary update. Needless to say I am taking a step away from PvP. There are other areas of this game that are much more enjoyable. Why play a game or a part of a game if it only frustrates you right?
>
>
>
>
> Really? You didn't find this trait a noticeable help in PVP, even post-nerf? Huh. For me, it definitely still counteracts how every RomTac in Pilot ships use Cold-hearted now.
It’s the same, if not a bit worse. 65-75% resists looks great on paper, but in reality it’s going to be much lower due to debuffs. I really don’t understand the interaction between damage resistance debuffs and damage resistance. I thought I did, but after seeing single debuffs cut my resistance in half, I know I don’t know. I have been playing as a healer for 5 years now and I firmly believe that my survivability, relatively to the PvP meta at the time, is at its lowest. This probably explains why I’m one of the only PvP healers left. Not trying to sound like a constant complainer, but that’s the way things are. This is why I’m stepping aside from PvP, at least for now.
EDIT: Sorry for the glitched our quote, I think it’s because I posted this on my phone.
Well, a general rundown of what I'm doing, maybe I found/thought of some things you haven't:
-Hull regen around 300% (so I guess 150% in combat). This is max hull regen and resists in expertise, 2x K-13 resist and regen consoles, resits at rest are 50% before anything else activates.
- Rep Traits: Hull-repairing Nanites, Active Hull Hardening, Automated Protomatter Conduits, Nanoprobe Field Generator, and Precision.
- ASIF placate DOFF & RSP III with uptime extending DOFF
- Invincible, Honored Dead, and Shield Overcharge ship traits
- Oblique Shielding and Repair Crews space traits
- Lukari regen console and the Atlas console (running a three piece of that set actually).
With that rig you will never get vaped 1v1, and you're pretty much going to actually need at least 3 people to kill you, more depending on their skill and gear, and you will make them work for it. Make them work too long, and any Ker'rat cavalry will swing by to smash them to pieces.
It's Cold-hearted and Fire on My Mark (big red bullseye target animation on you) that cuts your resists in half, and FOMM is cleared with Tactical team, Honored Dead should counter Cold-hearted, as the harder they hit you with no shields, the better Honored Dead works.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
> @vampeiyre said:
> The trait has already been fixed to work as intended, on top of being nerfed as well. It definitely works, and it is VERY noticeable in its effectiveness kyle223cat wrote: »
>
> meimeitoo wrote: »
>
> davefenestrator wrote: »
>
> In other words, you like to vape people in PVP and don't want to learn some new tricks to counter a tanky ship?
>
>
>
>
>
> ^^ This!
>
>
>
>
> Pretty much. The trait didn't even change how survivable I was in PvP. In fact I think things got worse for survivability in PvP after the anniversary update. Needless to say I am taking a step away from PvP. There are other areas of this game that are much more enjoyable. Why play a game or a part of a game if it only frustrates you right?
>
>
>
>
> Really? You didn't find this trait a noticeable help in PVP, even post-nerf? Huh. For me, it definitely still counteracts how every RomTac in Pilot ships use Cold-hearted now.
It’s the same, if not a bit worse. 65-75% resists looks great on paper, but in reality it’s going to be much lower due to debuffs. I really don’t understand the interaction between damage resistance debuffs and damage resistance. I thought I did, but after seeing single debuffs cut my resistance in half, I know I don’t know. I have been playing as a healer for 5 years now and I firmly believe that my survivability, relatively to the PvP meta at the time, is at its lowest. This probably explains why I’m one of the only PvP healers left. Not trying to sound like a constant complainer, but that’s the way things are. This is why I’m stepping aside from PvP, at least for now.
EDIT: Sorry for the glitched our quote, I think it’s because I posted this on my phone.
Well, a general rundown of what I'm doing, maybe I found/thought of some things you haven't:
-Hull regen around 300% (so I guess 150% in combat). This is max hull regen and resists in expertise, 2x K-13 resist and regen consoles, resits at rest are 50% before anything else activates.
- Rep Traits: Hull-repairing Nanites, Active Hull Hardening, Automated Protomatter Conduits, Nanoprobe Field Generator, and Precision.
- ASIF placate DOFF & RSP III with uptime extending DOFF
- Invincible, Honored Dead, and Shield Overcharge ship traits
- Oblique Shielding and Repair Crews space traits
- Lukari regen console and the Atlas console (running a three piece of that set actually).
With that rig you will never get vaped 1v1, and you're pretty much going to actually need at least 3 people to kill you, more depending on their skill and gear, and you will make them work for it. Make them work too long, and any Ker'rat cavalry will swing by to smash them to pieces.
It's Cold-hearted and Fire on My Mark (big red bullseye target animation on you) that cuts your resists in half, and FOMM is cleared with Tactical team, Honored Dead should counter Cold-hearted, as the harder they hit you with no shields, the better Honored Dead works.
Those are really good suggestions, also include the Give Your All trait from the Engineering R&D school. I believe I am using most of that stuff. To talk about the Lukari Protomatter console, the Atlas console, and the Shared Integration Circuit console, I don't use those because those are the types of consoles that can be disabled while in use. Every time I'd activate them, they'd just get shut down by a disable. I am using Regenerative Integrity Field, Sustained Radiant Field, and that Reiterative Structural Capacitor console, along with several neutroniums with the hull heal mod, and several of the hull-repairing embassy consoles. I am also currently running the Kobali set, but I have had my eye on the Competitive set. Trait wise I'm using Invincible, Honored Dead, Shield Overload, Synergistic Restoration, and Radiant Nanite Cloud. Rep Traits are the ones you mentioned except instead of precision, I'm using the Nukara defensive trait (the one where you get damage res, shield, and hull cap from high aux). I don't use the aux2sif placate doff or rsp3 with the doff because everyone complains about those 2 things and I try to keep my build completely clean, which includes no immunities.
I believe part of the problem is my standards are too high and so I'm too hard on my builds when I shouldn't be. Back Pre-DR one of my friends had a recluse build that I only saw die one time, and it was when at least 8 high damage escorts were shooting him. That was because back then, shields were relatively much stronger, reliable, and important than they are now. It's more about hull tanking now.
> @vampeiyre said:
> The trait has already been fixed to work as intended, on top of being nerfed as well. It definitely works, and it is VERY noticeable in its effectiveness kyle223cat wrote: »
>
> meimeitoo wrote: »
>
> davefenestrator wrote: »
>
> In other words, you like to vape people in PVP and don't want to learn some new tricks to counter a tanky ship?
>
>
>
>
>
> ^^ This!
>
>
>
>
> Pretty much. The trait didn't even change how survivable I was in PvP. In fact I think things got worse for survivability in PvP after the anniversary update. Needless to say I am taking a step away from PvP. There are other areas of this game that are much more enjoyable. Why play a game or a part of a game if it only frustrates you right?
>
>
>
>
> Really? You didn't find this trait a noticeable help in PVP, even post-nerf? Huh. For me, it definitely still counteracts how every RomTac in Pilot ships use Cold-hearted now.
It’s the same, if not a bit worse. 65-75% resists looks great on paper, but in reality it’s going to be much lower due to debuffs. I really don’t understand the interaction between damage resistance debuffs and damage resistance. I thought I did, but after seeing single debuffs cut my resistance in half, I know I don’t know. I have been playing as a healer for 5 years now and I firmly believe that my survivability, relatively to the PvP meta at the time, is at its lowest. This probably explains why I’m one of the only PvP healers left. Not trying to sound like a constant complainer, but that’s the way things are. This is why I’m stepping aside from PvP, at least for now.
EDIT: Sorry for the glitched our quote, I think it’s because I posted this on my phone.
Well, a general rundown of what I'm doing, maybe I found/thought of some things you haven't:
-Hull regen around 300% (so I guess 150% in combat). This is max hull regen and resists in expertise, 2x K-13 resist and regen consoles, resits at rest are 50% before anything else activates.
- Rep Traits: Hull-repairing Nanites, Active Hull Hardening, Automated Protomatter Conduits, Nanoprobe Field Generator, and Precision.
- ASIF placate DOFF & RSP III with uptime extending DOFF
- Invincible, Honored Dead, and Shield Overcharge ship traits
- Oblique Shielding and Repair Crews space traits
- Lukari regen console and the Atlas console (running a three piece of that set actually).
With that rig you will never get vaped 1v1, and you're pretty much going to actually need at least 3 people to kill you, more depending on their skill and gear, and you will make them work for it. Make them work too long, and any Ker'rat cavalry will swing by to smash them to pieces.
It's Cold-hearted and Fire on My Mark (big red bullseye target animation on you) that cuts your resists in half, and FOMM is cleared with Tactical team, Honored Dead should counter Cold-hearted, as the harder they hit you with no shields, the better Honored Dead works.
Those are really good suggestions, also include the Give Your All trait from the Engineering R&D school. I believe I am using most of that stuff. To talk about the Lukari Protomatter console, the Atlas console, and the Shared Integration Circuit console, I don't use those because those are the types of consoles that can be disabled while in use. Every time I'd activate them, they'd just get shut down by a disable. I am using Regenerative Integrity Field, Sustained Radiant Field, and that Reiterative Structural Capacitor console, along with several neutroniums with the hull heal mod, and several of the hull-repairing embassy consoles. I am also currently running the Kobali set, but I have had my eye on the Competitive set. Trait wise I'm using Invincible, Honored Dead, Shield Overload, Synergistic Restoration, and Radiant Nanite Cloud. Rep Traits are the ones you mentioned except instead of precision, I'm using the Nukara defensive trait (the one where you get damage res, shield, and hull cap from high aux). I don't use the aux2sif placate doff or rsp3 with the doff because everyone complains about those 2 things and I try to keep my build completely clean, which includes no immunities.
I believe part of the problem is my standards are too high and so I'm too hard on my builds when I shouldn't be. Back Pre-DR one of my friends had a recluse build that I only saw die one time, and it was when at least 8 high damage escorts were shooting him. That was because back then, shields were relatively much stronger, reliable, and important than they are now. It's more about hull tanking now.
Yes, Give Your All and Inelastic Collisions (shield heal gives 99% resists for 1.5 seconds) are both things I use and forgot to list.
The Competitive Engines that trigger from hull and shield heals are great. I can't decide if I like the shield though.
Frankly, the Atlas and Lukari console are just straight-up necessary, and if you have them but aren't using them, you're blowing your own toes off. Those consoles can't be turned on while you're disabled, true, but Engineering, Science, and Tac team can, which between them should clear anything long enough to to activate, while keeping you alive when interacting with things like Give Your All and Inelastic Collisions.
Hull regen is super effective and important now, when it never used to be. I'd really encourage you to try the K13 Resist/Regen consoles, the slight trade-off in resist isn't noticeable since resists are multiplicative/dimishing returns, whereas the regen boost is VERY noticeable.
The only people who moan about RSP and ASIF doffs are fail vapers who think they should be able kill something in 3 seconds, and ignore all shields and resists, and if they can't "OMG! Hax! You're a troll!!!11!!1! The game is broken!". TRIBBLE them, and get those DOFFs. So frankly, don't extend honor and mercy to opponents who have none, as you'll receive none.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
Oh, plus, did you get the TOS holo BOFFs? They recently gave them away on the C-Store for some occasion, I don't recall which. Holo Scotty has Techie, a captain trait. Put him as one of your engineers and slot Superior Techie for yourself, that's will very noticeably improve hull heals and regen.
Holo Spock also has Astrophysicist, a captain trait. So he's good to throw in a seat for a little extra drain and EPG if you're running multiple science BOFFs.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
> @vampeiyre said:
> The trait has already been fixed to work as intended, on top of being nerfed as well. It definitely works, and it is VERY noticeable in its effectiveness kyle223cat wrote: »
>
> meimeitoo wrote: »
>
> davefenestrator wrote: »
>
> In other words, you like to vape people in PVP and don't want to learn some new tricks to counter a tanky ship?
>
>
>
>
>
> ^^ This!
>
>
>
>
> Pretty much. The trait didn't even change how survivable I was in PvP. In fact I think things got worse for survivability in PvP after the anniversary update. Needless to say I am taking a step away from PvP. There are other areas of this game that are much more enjoyable. Why play a game or a part of a game if it only frustrates you right?
>
>
>
>
> Really? You didn't find this trait a noticeable help in PVP, even post-nerf? Huh. For me, it definitely still counteracts how every RomTac in Pilot ships use Cold-hearted now.
It’s the same, if not a bit worse. 65-75% resists looks great on paper, but in reality it’s going to be much lower due to debuffs. I really don’t understand the interaction between damage resistance debuffs and damage resistance. I thought I did, but after seeing single debuffs cut my resistance in half, I know I don’t know. I have been playing as a healer for 5 years now and I firmly believe that my survivability, relatively to the PvP meta at the time, is at its lowest. This probably explains why I’m one of the only PvP healers left. Not trying to sound like a constant complainer, but that’s the way things are. This is why I’m stepping aside from PvP, at least for now.
EDIT: Sorry for the glitched our quote, I think it’s because I posted this on my phone.
Well, a general rundown of what I'm doing, maybe I found/thought of some things you haven't:
-Hull regen around 300% (so I guess 150% in combat). This is max hull regen and resists in expertise, 2x K-13 resist and regen consoles, resits at rest are 50% before anything else activates.
- Rep Traits: Hull-repairing Nanites, Active Hull Hardening, Automated Protomatter Conduits, Nanoprobe Field Generator, and Precision.
- ASIF placate DOFF & RSP III with uptime extending DOFF
- Invincible, Honored Dead, and Shield Overcharge ship traits
- Oblique Shielding and Repair Crews space traits
- Lukari regen console and the Atlas console (running a three piece of that set actually).
With that rig you will never get vaped 1v1, and you're pretty much going to actually need at least 3 people to kill you, more depending on their skill and gear, and you will make them work for it. Make them work too long, and any Ker'rat cavalry will swing by to smash them to pieces.
It's Cold-hearted and Fire on My Mark (big red bullseye target animation on you) that cuts your resists in half, and FOMM is cleared with Tactical team, Honored Dead should counter Cold-hearted, as the harder they hit you with no shields, the better Honored Dead works.
Those are really good suggestions, also include the Give Your All trait from the Engineering R&D school. I believe I am using most of that stuff. To talk about the Lukari Protomatter console, the Atlas console, and the Shared Integration Circuit console, I don't use those because those are the types of consoles that can be disabled while in use. Every time I'd activate them, they'd just get shut down by a disable. I am using Regenerative Integrity Field, Sustained Radiant Field, and that Reiterative Structural Capacitor console, along with several neutroniums with the hull heal mod, and several of the hull-repairing embassy consoles. I am also currently running the Kobali set, but I have had my eye on the Competitive set. Trait wise I'm using Invincible, Honored Dead, Shield Overload, Synergistic Restoration, and Radiant Nanite Cloud. Rep Traits are the ones you mentioned except instead of precision, I'm using the Nukara defensive trait (the one where you get damage res, shield, and hull cap from high aux). I don't use the aux2sif placate doff or rsp3 with the doff because everyone complains about those 2 things and I try to keep my build completely clean, which includes no immunities.
I believe part of the problem is my standards are too high and so I'm too hard on my builds when I shouldn't be. Back Pre-DR one of my friends had a recluse build that I only saw die one time, and it was when at least 8 high damage escorts were shooting him. That was because back then, shields were relatively much stronger, reliable, and important than they are now. It's more about hull tanking now.
Yes, Give Your All and Inelastic Collisions (shield heal gives 99% resists for 1.5 seconds) are both things I use and forgot to list.
The Competitive Engines that trigger from hull and shield heals are great. I can't decide if I like the shield though.
Frankly, the Atlas and Lukari console are just straight-up necessary, and if you have them but aren't using them, you're blowing your own toes off. Those consoles can't be turned on while you're disabled, true, but Engineering, Science, and Tac team can, which between them should clear anything long enough to to activate, while keeping you alive when interacting with things like Give Your All and Inelastic Collisions.
Hull regen is super effective and important now, when it never used to be. I'd really encourage you to try the K13 Resist/Regen consoles, the slight trade-off in resist isn't noticeable since resists are multiplicative/dimishing returns, whereas the regen boost is VERY noticeable.
The only people who moan about RSP and ASIF doffs are fail vapers who think they should be able kill something in 3 seconds, and ignore all shields and resists, and if they can't "OMG! Hax! You're a troll!!!11!!1! The game is broken!". **** them, and get those DOFFs. So frankly, don't extend honor and mercy to opponents who have none, as you'll receive none.
The thing I find about the Lukari and Atlas consoles is that yep you can't activate while disabled AND when you do activate them, if you happen to get disabled, they shut down completely and go on cooldown. I've been working on ways to prevent getting disabled while I have them active. I believe attack pattern omega makes you immune to disables, so that's one way. I know one of the competitive warp cores gives resistance to control effects, so that's another.
Yep I love hull regen. I used to only be able to get it to 130% max in combat, now I can get it super high and it really is noticeable. I'll definitely look into the K-13 consoles. I'll also look into using those doffs you mentioned.
I also do have the holographic boffs. For some reason I never realized some of them had such good traits. I really need to use Scotty.
> @vampeiyre said:
> The trait has already been fixed to work as intended, on top of being nerfed as well. It definitely works, and it is VERY noticeable in its effectiveness kyle223cat wrote: »
>
> meimeitoo wrote: »
>
> davefenestrator wrote: »
>
> In other words, you like to vape people in PVP and don't want to learn some new tricks to counter a tanky ship?
>
>
>
>
>
> ^^ This!
>
>
>
>
> Pretty much. The trait didn't even change how survivable I was in PvP. In fact I think things got worse for survivability in PvP after the anniversary update. Needless to say I am taking a step away from PvP. There are other areas of this game that are much more enjoyable. Why play a game or a part of a game if it only frustrates you right?
>
>
>
>
> Really? You didn't find this trait a noticeable help in PVP, even post-nerf? Huh. For me, it definitely still counteracts how every RomTac in Pilot ships use Cold-hearted now.
It’s the same, if not a bit worse. 65-75% resists looks great on paper, but in reality it’s going to be much lower due to debuffs. I really don’t understand the interaction between damage resistance debuffs and damage resistance. I thought I did, but after seeing single debuffs cut my resistance in half, I know I don’t know. I have been playing as a healer for 5 years now and I firmly believe that my survivability, relatively to the PvP meta at the time, is at its lowest. This probably explains why I’m one of the only PvP healers left. Not trying to sound like a constant complainer, but that’s the way things are. This is why I’m stepping aside from PvP, at least for now.
EDIT: Sorry for the glitched our quote, I think it’s because I posted this on my phone.
Well, a general rundown of what I'm doing, maybe I found/thought of some things you haven't:
-Hull regen around 300% (so I guess 150% in combat). This is max hull regen and resists in expertise, 2x K-13 resist and regen consoles, resits at rest are 50% before anything else activates.
- Rep Traits: Hull-repairing Nanites, Active Hull Hardening, Automated Protomatter Conduits, Nanoprobe Field Generator, and Precision.
- ASIF placate DOFF & RSP III with uptime extending DOFF
- Invincible, Honored Dead, and Shield Overcharge ship traits
- Oblique Shielding and Repair Crews space traits
- Lukari regen console and the Atlas console (running a three piece of that set actually).
With that rig you will never get vaped 1v1, and you're pretty much going to actually need at least 3 people to kill you, more depending on their skill and gear, and you will make them work for it. Make them work too long, and any Ker'rat cavalry will swing by to smash them to pieces.
It's Cold-hearted and Fire on My Mark (big red bullseye target animation on you) that cuts your resists in half, and FOMM is cleared with Tactical team, Honored Dead should counter Cold-hearted, as the harder they hit you with no shields, the better Honored Dead works.
Those are really good suggestions, also include the Give Your All trait from the Engineering R&D school. I believe I am using most of that stuff. To talk about the Lukari Protomatter console, the Atlas console, and the Shared Integration Circuit console, I don't use those because those are the types of consoles that can be disabled while in use. Every time I'd activate them, they'd just get shut down by a disable. I am using Regenerative Integrity Field, Sustained Radiant Field, and that Reiterative Structural Capacitor console, along with several neutroniums with the hull heal mod, and several of the hull-repairing embassy consoles. I am also currently running the Kobali set, but I have had my eye on the Competitive set. Trait wise I'm using Invincible, Honored Dead, Shield Overload, Synergistic Restoration, and Radiant Nanite Cloud. Rep Traits are the ones you mentioned except instead of precision, I'm using the Nukara defensive trait (the one where you get damage res, shield, and hull cap from high aux). I don't use the aux2sif placate doff or rsp3 with the doff because everyone complains about those 2 things and I try to keep my build completely clean, which includes no immunities.
I believe part of the problem is my standards are too high and so I'm too hard on my builds when I shouldn't be. Back Pre-DR one of my friends had a recluse build that I only saw die one time, and it was when at least 8 high damage escorts were shooting him. That was because back then, shields were relatively much stronger, reliable, and important than they are now. It's more about hull tanking now.
Yes, Give Your All and Inelastic Collisions (shield heal gives 99% resists for 1.5 seconds) are both things I use and forgot to list.
The Competitive Engines that trigger from hull and shield heals are great. I can't decide if I like the shield though.
Frankly, the Atlas and Lukari console are just straight-up necessary, and if you have them but aren't using them, you're blowing your own toes off. Those consoles can't be turned on while you're disabled, true, but Engineering, Science, and Tac team can, which between them should clear anything long enough to to activate, while keeping you alive when interacting with things like Give Your All and Inelastic Collisions.
Hull regen is super effective and important now, when it never used to be. I'd really encourage you to try the K13 Resist/Regen consoles, the slight trade-off in resist isn't noticeable since resists are multiplicative/dimishing returns, whereas the regen boost is VERY noticeable.
The only people who moan about RSP and ASIF doffs are fail vapers who think they should be able kill something in 3 seconds, and ignore all shields and resists, and if they can't "OMG! Hax! You're a troll!!!11!!1! The game is broken!". **** them, and get those DOFFs. So frankly, don't extend honor and mercy to opponents who have none, as you'll receive none.
The thing I find about the Lukari and Atlas consoles is that yep you can't activate while disabled AND when you do activate them, if you happen to get disabled, they shut down completely and go on cooldown. I've been working on ways to prevent getting disabled while I have them active. I believe attack pattern omega makes you immune to disables, so that's one way. I know one of the competitive warp cores gives resistance to control effects, so that's another.
Yep I love hull regen. I used to only be able to get it to 130% max in combat, now I can get it super high and it really is noticeable. I'll definitely look into the K-13 consoles. I'll also look into using those doffs you mentioned.
I also do have the holographic boffs. For some reason I never realized some of them had such good traits. I really need to use Scotty.
I think the few occasions you describe where those consoles can get shut down are so seldom that it's still essentially self-nerfing to not carry them. I'd say deploy the Sensor Interference Platform rep clicky before you use those consoles. Perhaps I'm also specced/geared differently so I don't experience that almost ever? I know for space skills, I'm specced via engineering to reduce disable times, and in science with control to lessen the likelihood/duration of being affected by such things. The Secondary Shield Projector once activated removes 1 debuff or hazard every 3 seconds for 30 seconds, affects your whole team. Once again, Tac Team, Engineering Team, and Science Team are your friends, they are always useable when you're disabled/stunned. Engineering Team clears disables immediately. I'm pretty sure between one Krenim BOFF and one or two DOFFs you can have ET cooldown lower than global. Use Rally Point Marker right after ET to fix a disable for a massive hull and shield heal that also leaves a HOT, that and/or Hazard Emmitters right after ET anyway in that kind of situation.
Generically, I'd also say for PVP tanking, if you're not using Miracle Worker primary and Strategist secondary, then you're really TRIBBLE up, and you need to switch to those, ha. I laughed when I saw people moaning on the forum about MW spec being useless, when it's clearly a gift from the Ker'rat gods.
Lastly, that Nukara rep trait you're using to add more resists based on aux? IMO, that's pretty much an out-dated waste, since resists in this game are multiplicative/diminishing returns. If you're: Already using armor consoles and all this other stuff we've talked about, in a cruiser or dreadnought with resists as part of its mastery package, specced into armor resits via space skills, then that Nukara rep trait is a waste, it'll add nothing effectively on top of what you're already doing, so picking something else would probably be better. I went with more crit chance personally.
That Competitive rep engine will change your life, get that ASAP.
+12 Flight Speed
(All Impulse Engines increase their speed and turn rate with your Engine Power level)
+13.4 Flight Turn Rate
Thrusters: 25% speed when engines are disabled
Prevailing Engine - Overcharge
Upon activating [Hull] Heal or Shield Heal Bridge Officer abilities:
* +350% Flight Speed for 5 sec
* +350% Flight Turn Rate for 5 sec
* +15 Defense Rating for 5 sec
* +10% Increased recharge speed on Engineering Bridge Officer powers for 10 secs
Full Impulse
Full Impulse draws the power from all of your systems and redirects it to engines. Can only be used out of combat.
Targets Self
+122.7 Flight Speed
Diverts all power to engines
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
Those 1v1 vape 100,000k in a volley runs do not come anywhere near killing a Eng pilot with a reasonable amount of defence while buffs are running.
Wanted to highlight this bit here. WHILE BUFFS ARE RUNNING. That is assuming you have time to buff at all. Many Vapers out there have cloaks, so you don't even know WHEN to buff, and by the time they decloak and attack, its already too late to buff. Even with decent resists, you're gonna live maybe one or two seconds, and that is not enough time to hit all the "save my A**" buffs.
Vapers are built for spike damage. They need all their buffs up to get maximum carnage in a single pass. And typically a vaper will also have a cloak in order to get that opening volley and catch their opponent off guard.
Apart from you can hear the enemy coming into an attack. Even if I miss that sound it’s not possible to kill a decent eng within 1 or 2 seconds. If the eng is being vaped in seconds it’s because something is wrong with the build.
I have had vape ships catch me unaware and I am still alive 15sceond later due to having a decent defence fitted. There are a number of ways to survive that initial few seconds and get chance to respond.
To expand on your point, if I may??
Doing a full-blown vape ship requires a lot of effort and time, and most of the time you can't count on 'teamwork' the way a DPS builder does. meaning that, assuming:
1. you've got the right weapons
2. you've got a good ship for the purpose
3. you've loaded up all the right traits, have the right skills maxed
4. have the right Bridge Officers with the right bridge officer skills...
you're still not in 3-500K vape territory. to pull those off, you have to be aware of not only what YOU are doing, but what your TARGET is doing-you need to be positioned (if you have flanking bonus), you need to hit in the 'gap' if you're not running a sci, or you need to be positioned to activate and exploit your buffs, which means you need to be approaching at the right speed, at the right angle, with the right timing.
Gaps in this case include immunities, which have returned to being chainable less than a year after the rebalance forced gaps, there is nothing quite like hitting everything else just right, and seeing "Immune" pop up.
that means you need to learn to read the buff-bar on your opponent, and read it fast enough to actually USE the knowledge...and some things? don't show up until AFTER you've begun your run.
Rattler's example demonstrates he's still new to this whole idea, and that his build is probably sub-optimal for any engagement that isn't a target shoot against relatively helpless, scripted NPCs.
Players do whacky ****, even experienced players. I've humiliated PvE tacticals looking for a n00bstomp, simply by beating them twice using a lower-tier ship with poorer stats, because I KNOW players do whacky things, those fights generally result in a ragequit when I don't follow the script. (and what is the script? coming in straight and level so he can 'win' the engagement like a good little NPC.)
when you hear that decloaking sound, you hit Tactical Team and floor the accelerator. When you get the purple clock face, you hit science team NOW, even if it means you stop firing, and you turn-because flanking, if he's anywhere but straight on your six, you're going to be taking either Stat-based flanking, or Spec based flanking. (often both), throwing into an angle and Tac TEam and you can survive that first hit, even when your hull is tinfoil, most of the time,and if you're at diagonals to him, his damage is spreading across TWO shield facings instead of boring through one.
when I'm on a Bird of Prey, I'll ABORT a strike run if my target changes his positioning on my approach. it's only when your moves are PREDICTABLE that you're in serious danger from a Vape build.
Why do you think people corkscrew up, up, up, up in Ker'rat and Arenas?? it's because they're trying NOT to present a straight-on shield facing.
it's not that they're in love with getting the interrupt from reaching the end of the map, though it DOES present a 'wall' to help control the engagement-a predictable angle from which you can't be backstabbed.
it's about positioning, situational awareness and knowing how to read those almost-microscopic icons, for the defense, it's about having the basics and stealing the initiative. YOu can hear a cloaker buff at 10k, before he decloaks even. I've used that to get targets to pop their team abilities early, so that I can hit them in the cooldown,or to see what abilities they're carrying, but that trick only works against experienced players who've turned the music and ambient noise down so they can HEAR (and with good headphones, you don't just hear it, you hear where it's coming from.)
and really, after a while playing the game, the music gets damned repetitive, might as well mute it and gain an advantage in awareness.
To further add - this only covers reactive methods of dealing with vapers.
There are proactive methods too.
High Aux power, Sensors skill, Intel specialisation, Emergency Power to Auxiliary, Attack Pattern Lambda, in any science ship but Nebulas work best due to the T3 and T5 consoles, with a sci captain for sensor scan, with the mission reward Jem'Hadar set, and you can see most cloaked vessels out to well beyond their attack run range.
Spec into it to a huge extent, your cloak detection range exceeds what the game will actually display, although for PvP you won't do it as much as this. (compromises your build too much)
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
High Aux power, Sensors skill, Intel specialisation, Emergency Power to Auxiliary, Attack Pattern Lambda, in any science ship but Nebulas work best due to the T3 and T5 consoles, with a sci captain for sensor scan, with the mission reward Jem'Hadar set, and you can see most cloaked vessels out to well beyond their attack run range.
Spec into it to a huge extent, your cloak detection range exceeds what the game will actually display, although for PvP you won't do it as much as this. (compromises your build too much)
In a case like that it would probably require wolfpack tactics or something to try and box in the vaper. You'd have a Snooper with the stealth detection, and you'd have the ships with the ability to actually cause damage. At the right moment, Sensor Scan to reveal the vaper, then the hunters open fire. But that will take some SERIOUS coordination, probably via Voice Chat. And the best part is if the Snooper is a Nebula with the set, Tachyon Detection Grid would affect all allies. So in a way the Nebula would act as an SWACS while the other ships are hunter killers.
Or you could try and either lure the vaper into an ambush situation with cloakers of your own and a bait ship, something juicy that any vaper can't pass up on, or drive a spooked vaper into an ambush, Howlers to the Hunters style.
Really the only good counter to a Vaper is numbers to balance the engagement. One ship goes down, the others try to engage. On the other hand most Vapers would probably not go after a group and try to pick off stragglers.
You know... in a way this is reminding me of World War II, with the problem of German U-Boats wreaking havoc on Allied shipping.
Heh, isn't flying a Nebula in PvP kinda like walking into a graveyard wearing a wreath of garlic around your neck? the T6 version doesn't have a cloak buster console or trait, it's centered on shield cracking and shield tanking.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
I don't PvP if I can help it. Sometimes I might to help a friend find out whats going on with a build, but I don't go out of my way to do it for fun. It just isn't for me because I'm Vaper Bait. Give me someone with a decent PvE build like mine and it actually becomes a good fight. A battle of wills. First mistake in the buffs could lead to defeat, but at the same time luck could be the deciding factor.
I don't see a Vape build as a fair tactic as most of the time they are geared towards maximum alpha strike damage that is very hard to counter alone. Some say its doable, I don't dispute that. But for most casuals like myself who can do 10-15k DPS in Infected, vapers are downright lethal and make PvP not fun.
Anyways... everything with the vapers vs snoopers is basically an arms race. Who can get the first shot off usually wins.
A friend of mine actually brought up a good point off the forums. Someone here actually said to just "listen for the buffs". Well... there's a problem with that. Romulan and Klingon Pilot Escorts can sit just outside of range, buff, afterburn into range, decloak and unload, then slink away before anyone can react. Thereby negating the audible buff sounds. In that situation, you'd need to be a snooper that can detect cloaked ships beyond 10 km. Otherwise... you're a sitting duck.
I rather suspect the majority do not buy ships for traits, they buy the ship for the ship. People who just buy for the traits should not be catered to.
Your suspicion is not proof and therefore cannot determine who should be catered to. I would argue that most people in the game are probably f2p'ers buy the ship for the ship, but most probably don't buy many ships at all given colony dilithium costs and everything else. I buy zen with my credit card to get a ship that has a trait I want and would think that money is more important to cryptic than f2p'ers and the reasons why they buy a ship.
I have bought ships for the console or the trait before, not always, but a few times. Mostly I buy ships because...ummm... one day I may figure that out.
In addition, buffing outside the 10K limits your durations, with something like APO that can put you in a position where you lose your defensive advantage at exactly the wrong time.
Meta response: Who needs Defensive Advantage when they're dead.
Eh..After a few tries..the Decloack Vape is easy enough to get around..Being Fed fighting players with Battle cloaks,I got pretty used to listening for the decloak and watching my 6...But this was also when the Old FBP was EVUL (Smoking crater before i turned around...silly Vapers)...There is also a brief period when their shields are still down..Sci ships (Mainly Scryers at the time) trying a Vape was a bit different to approach..
It also becomes very apparent when that is that players only tactic..When using my Rom sci ships (as a sorta Vaper) after 2 kills I fight them straight up..Which I felt fair when I could see they did not have the requisite skill to beat a Vape style attack. Only to find..They still couldn't beat my ship 1v1 or 2v1..
Tac Team,Jam Sensors or Quantum Singularity Manipulation can give you some breathing space if your expecting a Decloak/Vape attack.
I'm sorry but just "hitting Tactical Team" won't stop a vaper at all. A weeks worth of experience in ker'rat in the present tells anyone that, let alone 5 years worth of experience in my case. Just hitting Tactical Team wouldn't have even stopped a vaper pre-DR let alone now, and that's when shields were much more relevant. Shields just aren't strong enough anymore. You'd have to have a full shield tank to even think about relying on your shields, and even then I wouldn't rely on them 100%.
Reverse Shield Polarity might work, as I have used it to stop vapers before. However, if they're using non-energy weapons, like the console from the T6 B'rel, that's not going to work. You have to rely on hull-tanking for stopping vapers. The console from the temporal cruiser is great, the Kobali 4 piece might work if they are using energy weapons, or a well timed immunity like Improved Temporal Insight. Rock and Roll used to work but I remember the immunity part of that ability not working the last time I used it. Continuity would be another, but you'd have to use the whole Temporal specialization tree and that's probably not worth it vs using Miracle Worker as your primary specialization.
EDIT: Sometimes a vaper will have a science player subnuke the intended target right after they've used their buffs to counter the vaper. Watch out for that.
“I'm sorry but just "hitting Tactical Team" won't stop a vaper at all. A weeks worth of experience in ker'rat in the present tells anyone that, let alone 5 years worth of experience in my case”
Tactical Team will work with the right setup. All you need to do is move enough hitpoint pool to absorb the spike damage and the vape fails. Vapes cannot maintain DPS so its relatively easy to survive a vape attack with the right setup. If anything surviving vape attacks these days is the easiest its been in years. We have so many ways to survive now that vapors have to be more careful then ever before about who and how they vape.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
Uh... and what constitutes "the right setup"? Because I have yet to see it. Tac Team alone is most certainly NOT the end all counter to a vape build. And if they happen to have some kind of Shield Pen... yeeeeaaa... Tac Team ain't gonna protect agaisnt THAT.
Tac Team/Reverse Shield Polarity combo used to be awesome and could actually save your tail in a pinch, but that got nerfed. And a top tier Vaper is gonna be doing upwards of 50-75k DPS MINIMUM. That's gonna be an awful lot of shield points to try and null off THAT kind of firepower.
Uh... and what constitutes "the right setup"? Because I have yet to see it. Tac Team alone is most certainly NOT the end all counter to a vape build. And if they happen to have some kind of Shield Pen... yeeeeaaa... Tac Team ain't gonna protect agaisnt THAT.
Tac Team/Reverse Shield Polarity combo used to be awesome and could actually save your tail in a pinch, but that got nerfed. And a top tier Vaper is gonna be doing upwards of 50-75k DPS MINIMUM. That's gonna be an awful lot of shield points to try and null off THAT kind of firepower.
If you have 20k shields per facing and 50% resistance which is petty poor for someone who specs into shields. That’s a shield hit point pool of 80k.
75k dps gets knocked down to around about 50k from defence+ dodge. 50% resistance knocks 50k down to 25k DPS. With TT moving 80k worth of hitpoitn pool around you should be able to tank 25k DPS without a problem. This is all assuming a pretty weak tank as any decent tank will have better than 50% resistance.
Of course Tac Team won’t do much on a minimum shield build but at the very minimum TT should buy you at least 3 seconds longer before hull damage. 3 seconds is enough to trigger an ASIF doff which buys you another 4 seconds.
Competitive Rep store has a shield battery consumable you buy with dilithium that blocks shield-penetrating weapon damage, just buy the cheap version, as the expensive version adds 40% shield capacity as opposed to 20%, and IMO, it's blocking the shield-bypassing weapon damage we're looking for. Keep in mind people can still hit you with Science and Temporal shield-bypassing stuff like Gravity Well and Tyken's Rift, etc.
Also, Tactical Team clears "Fire on My Mark" and any other tactical debuffs a vaper tries to hit you with on an alpha strike. Pair that with Reverse Shield Polarity III, 120% of incoming damage is converted to shield healing, pair it with the RSP DOFF.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
Honestly your completely right. With the premise that the vapor is going to do 75k dps.
One thing is worth pointing out though. There are vapors out there that do 20k dps, but spike 500k. Its the spike that you need to worry about, not the DPS, because its the spike that can leave an opponent no time to react.
Ok that's my contribution. A friend told me to supply my input to this thread. Input supplied, im heading off.
Honestly your completely right. With the premise that the vapor is going to do 75k dps.
One thing is worth pointing out though. There are vapors out there that do 20k dps, but spike 500k. Its the spike that you need to worry about, not the DPS, because its the spike that can leave an opponent no time to react.
Ok that's my contribution. A friend told me to supply my input to this thread. Input supplied, im heading off.
With enough hitpoints and resistance a ship can take a 500k spike damage and survive. The other option is to use traits like Destabilizing Phase Array, Invincible, Improved Temporal Insight or powers like Continuity which all stop that unexpected spike damage killing you among other options I did not list. Each of the above add on valuable seconds to trigger other survivable options and stop spike damage from killing you.
There are now more ways then ever before to protect and survive against vape attacks. I just listed 5 different ways and I am sure there are more. Simple things like having dodge will knock 100k off that 500k spike before even talking about resistance or defence. There are so many things that work. Its hard for vapers these days, they have to use a lot of skill and pick targets carefully.
Comments
Well, a general rundown of what I'm doing, maybe I found/thought of some things you haven't:
-Hull regen around 300% (so I guess 150% in combat). This is max hull regen and resists in expertise, 2x K-13 resist and regen consoles, resits at rest are 50% before anything else activates.
- Rep Traits: Hull-repairing Nanites, Active Hull Hardening, Automated Protomatter Conduits, Nanoprobe Field Generator, and Precision.
- ASIF placate DOFF & RSP III with uptime extending DOFF
- Invincible, Honored Dead, and Shield Overcharge ship traits
- Oblique Shielding and Repair Crews space traits
- Lukari regen console and the Atlas console (running a three piece of that set actually).
With that rig you will never get vaped 1v1, and you're pretty much going to actually need at least 3 people to kill you, more depending on their skill and gear, and you will make them work for it. Make them work too long, and any Ker'rat cavalry will swing by to smash them to pieces.
It's Cold-hearted and Fire on My Mark (big red bullseye target animation on you) that cuts your resists in half, and FOMM is cleared with Tactical team, Honored Dead should counter Cold-hearted, as the harder they hit you with no shields, the better Honored Dead works.
Those are really good suggestions, also include the Give Your All trait from the Engineering R&D school. I believe I am using most of that stuff. To talk about the Lukari Protomatter console, the Atlas console, and the Shared Integration Circuit console, I don't use those because those are the types of consoles that can be disabled while in use. Every time I'd activate them, they'd just get shut down by a disable. I am using Regenerative Integrity Field, Sustained Radiant Field, and that Reiterative Structural Capacitor console, along with several neutroniums with the hull heal mod, and several of the hull-repairing embassy consoles. I am also currently running the Kobali set, but I have had my eye on the Competitive set. Trait wise I'm using Invincible, Honored Dead, Shield Overload, Synergistic Restoration, and Radiant Nanite Cloud. Rep Traits are the ones you mentioned except instead of precision, I'm using the Nukara defensive trait (the one where you get damage res, shield, and hull cap from high aux). I don't use the aux2sif placate doff or rsp3 with the doff because everyone complains about those 2 things and I try to keep my build completely clean, which includes no immunities.
I believe part of the problem is my standards are too high and so I'm too hard on my builds when I shouldn't be. Back Pre-DR one of my friends had a recluse build that I only saw die one time, and it was when at least 8 high damage escorts were shooting him. That was because back then, shields were relatively much stronger, reliable, and important than they are now. It's more about hull tanking now.
Yes, Give Your All and Inelastic Collisions (shield heal gives 99% resists for 1.5 seconds) are both things I use and forgot to list.
The Competitive Engines that trigger from hull and shield heals are great. I can't decide if I like the shield though.
Frankly, the Atlas and Lukari console are just straight-up necessary, and if you have them but aren't using them, you're blowing your own toes off. Those consoles can't be turned on while you're disabled, true, but Engineering, Science, and Tac team can, which between them should clear anything long enough to to activate, while keeping you alive when interacting with things like Give Your All and Inelastic Collisions.
Hull regen is super effective and important now, when it never used to be. I'd really encourage you to try the K13 Resist/Regen consoles, the slight trade-off in resist isn't noticeable since resists are multiplicative/dimishing returns, whereas the regen boost is VERY noticeable.
The only people who moan about RSP and ASIF doffs are fail vapers who think they should be able kill something in 3 seconds, and ignore all shields and resists, and if they can't "OMG! Hax! You're a troll!!!11!!1! The game is broken!". TRIBBLE them, and get those DOFFs. So frankly, don't extend honor and mercy to opponents who have none, as you'll receive none.
Holo Spock also has Astrophysicist, a captain trait. So he's good to throw in a seat for a little extra drain and EPG if you're running multiple science BOFFs.
The thing I find about the Lukari and Atlas consoles is that yep you can't activate while disabled AND when you do activate them, if you happen to get disabled, they shut down completely and go on cooldown. I've been working on ways to prevent getting disabled while I have them active. I believe attack pattern omega makes you immune to disables, so that's one way. I know one of the competitive warp cores gives resistance to control effects, so that's another.
Yep I love hull regen. I used to only be able to get it to 130% max in combat, now I can get it super high and it really is noticeable. I'll definitely look into the K-13 consoles. I'll also look into using those doffs you mentioned.
I also do have the holographic boffs. For some reason I never realized some of them had such good traits. I really need to use Scotty.
I think the few occasions you describe where those consoles can get shut down are so seldom that it's still essentially self-nerfing to not carry them. I'd say deploy the Sensor Interference Platform rep clicky before you use those consoles. Perhaps I'm also specced/geared differently so I don't experience that almost ever? I know for space skills, I'm specced via engineering to reduce disable times, and in science with control to lessen the likelihood/duration of being affected by such things. The Secondary Shield Projector once activated removes 1 debuff or hazard every 3 seconds for 30 seconds, affects your whole team. Once again, Tac Team, Engineering Team, and Science Team are your friends, they are always useable when you're disabled/stunned. Engineering Team clears disables immediately. I'm pretty sure between one Krenim BOFF and one or two DOFFs you can have ET cooldown lower than global. Use Rally Point Marker right after ET to fix a disable for a massive hull and shield heal that also leaves a HOT, that and/or Hazard Emmitters right after ET anyway in that kind of situation.
Generically, I'd also say for PVP tanking, if you're not using Miracle Worker primary and Strategist secondary, then you're really TRIBBLE up, and you need to switch to those, ha. I laughed when I saw people moaning on the forum about MW spec being useless, when it's clearly a gift from the Ker'rat gods.
Lastly, that Nukara rep trait you're using to add more resists based on aux? IMO, that's pretty much an out-dated waste, since resists in this game are multiplicative/diminishing returns. If you're: Already using armor consoles and all this other stuff we've talked about, in a cruiser or dreadnought with resists as part of its mastery package, specced into armor resits via space skills, then that Nukara rep trait is a waste, it'll add nothing effectively on top of what you're already doing, so picking something else would probably be better. I went with more crit chance personally.
That Competitive rep engine will change your life, get that ASAP.
+12 Flight Speed
(All Impulse Engines increase their speed and turn rate with your Engine Power level)
+13.4 Flight Turn Rate
Thrusters: 25% speed when engines are disabled
Prevailing Engine - Overcharge
Upon activating [Hull] Heal or Shield Heal Bridge Officer abilities:
* +350% Flight Speed for 5 sec
* +350% Flight Turn Rate for 5 sec
* +15 Defense Rating for 5 sec
* +10% Increased recharge speed on Engineering Bridge Officer powers for 10 secs
Full Impulse
Full Impulse draws the power from all of your systems and redirects it to engines. Can only be used out of combat.
Targets Self
+122.7 Flight Speed
Diverts all power to engines
To further add - this only covers reactive methods of dealing with vapers.
There are proactive methods too.
High Aux power, Sensors skill, Intel specialisation, Emergency Power to Auxiliary, Attack Pattern Lambda, in any science ship but Nebulas work best due to the T3 and T5 consoles, with a sci captain for sensor scan, with the mission reward Jem'Hadar set, and you can see most cloaked vessels out to well beyond their attack run range.
Spec into it to a huge extent, your cloak detection range exceeds what the game will actually display, although for PvP you won't do it as much as this. (compromises your build too much)
In a case like that it would probably require wolfpack tactics or something to try and box in the vaper. You'd have a Snooper with the stealth detection, and you'd have the ships with the ability to actually cause damage. At the right moment, Sensor Scan to reveal the vaper, then the hunters open fire. But that will take some SERIOUS coordination, probably via Voice Chat. And the best part is if the Snooper is a Nebula with the set, Tachyon Detection Grid would affect all allies. So in a way the Nebula would act as an SWACS while the other ships are hunter killers.
Or you could try and either lure the vaper into an ambush situation with cloakers of your own and a bait ship, something juicy that any vaper can't pass up on, or drive a spooked vaper into an ambush, Howlers to the Hunters style.
Really the only good counter to a Vaper is numbers to balance the engagement. One ship goes down, the others try to engage. On the other hand most Vapers would probably not go after a group and try to pick off stragglers.
You know... in a way this is reminding me of World War II, with the problem of German U-Boats wreaking havoc on Allied shipping.
My character Tsin'xing
I don't see a Vape build as a fair tactic as most of the time they are geared towards maximum alpha strike damage that is very hard to counter alone. Some say its doable, I don't dispute that. But for most casuals like myself who can do 10-15k DPS in Infected, vapers are downright lethal and make PvP not fun.
Anyways... everything with the vapers vs snoopers is basically an arms race. Who can get the first shot off usually wins.
A friend of mine actually brought up a good point off the forums. Someone here actually said to just "listen for the buffs". Well... there's a problem with that. Romulan and Klingon Pilot Escorts can sit just outside of range, buff, afterburn into range, decloak and unload, then slink away before anyone can react. Thereby negating the audible buff sounds. In that situation, you'd need to be a snooper that can detect cloaked ships beyond 10 km. Otherwise... you're a sitting duck.
I have bought ships for the console or the trait before, not always, but a few times. Mostly I buy ships because...ummm... one day I may figure that out.
Meta response: Who needs Defensive Advantage when they're dead.
It also becomes very apparent when that is that players only tactic..When using my Rom sci ships (as a sorta Vaper) after 2 kills I fight them straight up..Which I felt fair when I could see they did not have the requisite skill to beat a Vape style attack. Only to find..They still couldn't beat my ship 1v1 or 2v1..
Tac Team,Jam Sensors or Quantum Singularity Manipulation can give you some breathing space if your expecting a Decloak/Vape attack.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Reverse Shield Polarity might work, as I have used it to stop vapers before. However, if they're using non-energy weapons, like the console from the T6 B'rel, that's not going to work. You have to rely on hull-tanking for stopping vapers. The console from the temporal cruiser is great, the Kobali 4 piece might work if they are using energy weapons, or a well timed immunity like Improved Temporal Insight. Rock and Roll used to work but I remember the immunity part of that ability not working the last time I used it. Continuity would be another, but you'd have to use the whole Temporal specialization tree and that's probably not worth it vs using Miracle Worker as your primary specialization.
EDIT: Sometimes a vaper will have a science player subnuke the intended target right after they've used their buffs to counter the vaper. Watch out for that.
Tac Team/Reverse Shield Polarity combo used to be awesome and could actually save your tail in a pinch, but that got nerfed. And a top tier Vaper is gonna be doing upwards of 50-75k DPS MINIMUM. That's gonna be an awful lot of shield points to try and null off THAT kind of firepower.
75k dps gets knocked down to around about 50k from defence+ dodge. 50% resistance knocks 50k down to 25k DPS. With TT moving 80k worth of hitpoitn pool around you should be able to tank 25k DPS without a problem. This is all assuming a pretty weak tank as any decent tank will have better than 50% resistance.
Of course Tac Team won’t do much on a minimum shield build but at the very minimum TT should buy you at least 3 seconds longer before hull damage. 3 seconds is enough to trigger an ASIF doff which buys you another 4 seconds.
Competitive Rep store has a shield battery consumable you buy with dilithium that blocks shield-penetrating weapon damage, just buy the cheap version, as the expensive version adds 40% shield capacity as opposed to 20%, and IMO, it's blocking the shield-bypassing weapon damage we're looking for. Keep in mind people can still hit you with Science and Temporal shield-bypassing stuff like Gravity Well and Tyken's Rift, etc.
Also, Tactical Team clears "Fire on My Mark" and any other tactical debuffs a vaper tries to hit you with on an alpha strike. Pair that with Reverse Shield Polarity III, 120% of incoming damage is converted to shield healing, pair it with the RSP DOFF.
Honestly your completely right. With the premise that the vapor is going to do 75k dps.
One thing is worth pointing out though. There are vapors out there that do 20k dps, but spike 500k. Its the spike that you need to worry about, not the DPS, because its the spike that can leave an opponent no time to react.
Ok that's my contribution. A friend told me to supply my input to this thread. Input supplied, im heading off.
There are now more ways then ever before to protect and survive against vape attacks. I just listed 5 different ways and I am sure there are more. Simple things like having dodge will knock 100k off that 500k spike before even talking about resistance or defence. There are so many things that work. Its hard for vapers these days, they have to use a lot of skill and pick targets carefully.
My character Tsin'xing