test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Spore Drive Top Secret Failer (Cannon Talk Star Trek Discovery)

ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 466 Arc User
Hay Guys Now that we reach the Half way point in the First Season of Star Trek Discovery we see the Spore Drive being something unreliable. So these means it can be fit in to Cannon all together and here is a reason why through out Starfleet history they constantly do alternate ways of FTL either being trans-warp Slipstream Warp Drive and now Spore Drive. So why have we not heard of something like of Spore Drive until Now will this could have been a above Top Secret Project by Starfleet and or (section 31) way to win the War the Klingons but as we see in the Series the Dangers it gives with the Creature and Lt Stamen. So We have to assume the Spore Drive was just another failure with Starfleet to go Faster then warp 9.
May the Shwartz Be With You
CWpA7_1VAAA7vBh.jpg
«13

Comments

  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    I certainly hope they don't go the Section 31 route. Those guys are overused and overpowered, and a secret organization of antiheroes is a lot less interesting than a genuine hero who's forced to take extreme action out of desperation.
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,676 Community Moderator
    Those guys are overused and overpowered

    Kinda like the Borg in nearly all TNG era Star Trek games.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Klingon get access to it and kill the network by mistake.

    Problem solved.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,070 Arc User
    You would need to build a rather large cannon to fit the entire spore drive inside it. As it stands now, since this appeared on a Star Trek episode, it is part of the official Star Trek canon now.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,676 Community Moderator
    Odds are the risks and limitations of hte Spore Drive outweigh the benefits. While yes, it makes FTL travel dang near instant, the fact you need a biological component to navigate long distances is a problem. Discovery herself was only able to manage short hops with only her computer. Now... can it be possible that late 24th or even 25th Century Bio-Neural tech can improve that? Maybe. But still... we saw what happened to the Glenn.

    Just like Transwarp and Slipstream... probably not worth the investment and risk over traditional, proven Warp Drive.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,766 Arc User
    So far, the Spore Drive not only requires a biological component, it damages the biological component. Given the existence of warp drive, I can see where Starfleet would toss spores into the big bin of "well, that didn't work...".
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    ryuranger wrote: »
    Hay Guys Now that we reach the Half way point in the First Season of Star Trek Discovery we see the Spore Drive being something unreliable. So these means it can be fit in to Cannon all together and here is a reason why through out Starfleet history they constantly do alternate ways of FTL either being trans-warp Slipstream Warp Drive and now Spore Drive. So why have we not heard of something like of Spore Drive until Now will this could have been a above Top Secret Project by Starfleet and or (section 31) way to win the War the Klingons but as we see in the Series the Dangers it gives with the Creature and Lt Stamen. So We have to assume the Spore Drive was just another failure with Starfleet to go Faster then warp 9.

    The drive is working perfectly, it's the biological component that was unreliable and whats worse is that Stamets did it on purpose as he mentioned how he loves his doctor friend before which strongly suggested he knew before hand what was coming next for him, he basically begged Lorca to try again to make sure.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    That's The Hole Point The Drive dose Work why it should but the you need a sentient life-from to Operate it that's a major Problem and whats happening to the Luteninte he is becoming like Mitchal from Where No One Gone Before Because of it The Only way to make such a Drive work is a Emulator to Simulate it is what they were talking about in the 5th Episode Chose your pain
    May the Shwartz Be With You
    CWpA7_1VAAA7vBh.jpg
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    No, the drive is good, but if there were others who were able to power the spore drive than just Stamets, the Discovery wouldn't be in the position it is, alone out in the middle of nowhere. The drive itself is reliable, but if Discovery had more than one or two people they could rotate around to power the calculations along the mycelial network, it would avoid the unreliability of the biological component when one can rest up and allow another to do it.

    The drive works as it is intended, it just a tax on the biological component to keep doing the same thing over a duration without the chance to recouperate. However because Discovery doesn't have anything that calculate or store information as fast and as much as a humanoid brain or even a larger non-humanoid brain at this point, it's still a requirement to have such a biological component.

    If Starfleet ever developed a computer fast enough to calculate and store vast amounts of information and release it as fast, the biological component wouldn't be required. For now Lorca is going to have to have Stamets rest up a bit to give his body the chance to recouperate after such a taxing experience, he has little choice in the matter, or inject someone else with hybrid tartargrade dna so it's not so depenedent on Stamets to overdo it.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    We know the drive works. We know that it needs a powerful computational component to operate fully. We know some animals can handle this and that gene swapping can pass this to others.
    And we know that at present their computers can’t handle the load, but 24c ones with bioneural gel pack might be more capable. So we know quite a lot about how the drive works, we just don’t know the consequences of its wider use.

    I think the major reason we never heard of the tech again is because it went wrong. I’m fairly certain that either Discovery is lost for good, or is in some sort of Voyager situation where they must now work together (including the Klingon) to overcome the problems and find a way home.

    So because if that I’d hazard a guess and say SF wipes all knowledge of the project from their records. Probably even more likely when you consider how adverse they are to genetic manipulation, Stamets is literally a walking crime scene with the doctor and captain as the accused as well.

    There are suggestions they have ended up in a mirror universe so I’m wondering if they escape and decide that the drive is simply too dangerous based on what they find there. Maybe they destroy the network to stop anything crossing over to protect their own universe.
    SulMatuul.png
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    I think the major reason we never heard of the tech again is because it went wrong. I’m fairly certain that either Discovery is lost for good, or is in some sort of Voyager situation where they must now work together (including the Klingon) to overcome the problems and find a way home.

    So because if that I’d hazard a guess and say SF wipes all knowledge of the project from their records. Probably even more likely when you consider how adverse they are to genetic manipulation, Stamets is literally a walking crime scene with the doctor and captain as the accused as well.

    There are suggestions they have ended up in a mirror universe so I’m wondering if they escape and decide that the drive is simply too dangerous based on what they find there. Maybe they destroy the network to stop anything crossing over to protect their own universe.

    We will have to see what happens in 2018 when the remainer or the season airs as to how badly Stamet's may have screwed up before speculating to the fate of the drive. If it turns out it was just Stamet's pushing too hard, then finding an alternative means to run the spore drive would be a priority. So long as it works correctly on the Discovery, i don't think Lorca would give up the advantage he has with the Klingons in the area if he can pull off a number of victories as big as what happened with T'Kuvma's ship and Kol.

    On the other hand if L'Rell finds out about the device and manages to twist and torture Tyler to the point he reveals everything to her and she escapes with not only the knowledge of the drive, but a container of the mycelial spores and Tyler who may know about how much it works and worse those details are revealed to the wider Klingon empire, just out of principle Lorca might have little choice but to dismantle such a drive and rely on old fashioned warp drive once again rather than proving to the wider galaxy what they were up to.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,844 Arc User
    L'Rell doesn't have to torture Tyler. They're on the same side ;)
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    I expect that the problems with the spore drive will have to prove insurmountable, otherwise we would have seen other races using that technology in the future series. Either the mycelium network is destroyed/cut off forever, or it has a side effect so dangerous that no sane person would even consider using it again. It would take something far worse than "oh no we're trapped in the mirror universe" for that to happen.
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,548 Arc User
    I expect that the problems with the spore drive will have to prove insurmountable, otherwise we would have seen other races using that technology in the future series. Either the mycelium network is destroyed/cut off forever, or it has a side effect so dangerous that no sane person would even consider using it again. It would take something far worse than "oh no we're trapped in the mirror universe" for that to happen.

    If there is a 1% chance of ships disappearing into another universe using the spore drive, then the system is not reliable and would be scrapped. Only organizations that don't care about the risk would use it.
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    I expect that the problems with the spore drive will have to prove insurmountable, otherwise we would have seen other races using that technology in the future series. Either the mycelium network is destroyed/cut off forever, or it has a side effect so dangerous that no sane person would even consider using it again. It would take something far worse than "oh no we're trapped in the mirror universe" for that to happen.

    If there is a 1% chance of ships disappearing into another universe using the spore drive, then the system is not reliable and would be scrapped. Only organizations that don't care about the risk would use it.

    So... Klingons, Romulans, Borg, Cardassians, Ferengi, and others? Hell, if there was a 99% chance the mycelium network could get Voyager home, don't you think Janeway would have tried it? Wouldn't it have been reintroduced during the Dominion War out of desparation?

    The dangers would have to be a lot worse than that for this to be universally abandoned. Like, the warp kind of dangerous. So dangerous that no sane person would ever go near that thing again, no matter how desperately they might need it.
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,548 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    I expect that the problems with the spore drive will have to prove insurmountable, otherwise we would have seen other races using that technology in the future series. Either the mycelium network is destroyed/cut off forever, or it has a side effect so dangerous that no sane person would even consider using it again. It would take something far worse than "oh no we're trapped in the mirror universe" for that to happen.

    If there is a 1% chance of ships disappearing into another universe using the spore drive, then the system is not reliable and would be scrapped. Only organizations that don't care about the risk would use it.

    So... Klingons, Romulans, Borg, Cardassians, Ferengi, and others? Hell, if there was a 99% chance the mycelium network could get Voyager home, don't you think Janeway would have tried it? Wouldn't it have been reintroduced during the Dominion War out of desparation?

    The dangers would have to be a lot worse than that for this to be universally abandoned. Like, the warp kind of dangerous. So dangerous that no sane person would ever go near that thing again, no matter how desperately they might need it.

    The only ones that might use it on a regular basis is the Ferengi if it is extremely profitable. Organizations like the Tal Shiar, Section 31, and the Obsidian Order would use it for Black Ops, but their merchant and militaries wouldn't. A Spore Drive with a 1% chance of entering another universe is a desperation technology.

    If the Spore Drive has a 1% chance of entering into another universe, then any ship will be lost given enough jumps which is why it is not an acceptable risk to most organizations unless they are truly desperate like the exact situation that Discovery is set in.

    With the risk of entering another universe, then there is the chance of encountering races like Species 8472 or Daemons from the Immaterium. Have enough ships with Spore Drives lost to another universe and the Milky Way Galaxy will be invaded by some hostile alien race.

  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    The Way the Drive Works and Why its its ultimate Failure manly lack of Tech the Way the Spores Communicate with another Creature to allow it to Travel. They Need to be in Perfect balance with one and other other wise its Worthless like we Saw in the Mid Season Finally when the Stamets Lost Control of him self and the Ship went some were in the universe maybe even in another Time. In the Episode Choose your Pain Stamets Burnham and Tilly were talking about creating an Emulator for the Spores to Communicate with but because Saru was pushing them Stamets augmented him self so they can Save the Captain. I Think that's why my self it was a Failure for Starfleet if the Three Were able to do a Emulation Bio navigator to allow the Spores communicate with then things would have been Different
    May the Shwartz Be With You
    CWpA7_1VAAA7vBh.jpg
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    The ship is probably going to be destroyed eventually and in such a way that Star Fleet will never know why or how.
    (of course this won't happen till the show is cancelled/finishes its run)

    I believe that we'll also be shown that the Spore Drive messes with all the crews DNA and/or Brain Functions every time they jump, which is another reason it's never used again.
    (just not as quickly as Stamets)

    And if Lorca's Admiral Cornwell lover, turns out to be the Lethe from TOS "Dagger of the Mind", (and they do look very similar - see below) then her eventually ending up at the Tantalus V - Rehab Colony also ties into this theory.
    latest?cb=20080813101926
    MV5BZTY5ZWQ0ZTEtZDUyZi00NTMyLWI2YjQtMmY5NGJmY2VjZjU2XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjk3NTUyOTc@._V1_SY467_CR0,0,521,467_AL_.jpg




    B)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    my guess is still some variation of eldritch horror. that or the spore network dies from overuse.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,070 Arc User
    Just my 2 quatloos... I believe the spore technology will be abandoned due to the affects on the biological "pilot".
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,548 Arc User
    daveyny wrote: »
    And if Lorca's Admiral Cornwell lover, turns out to be the Lethe from TOS "Dagger of the Mind", (and they do look very similar - see below) then her eventually ending up at the Tantalus V - Rehab Colony also ties into this theory.

    I forget if Kol chopped off Corwell's legs or if he just disabled them. If true, then she would need to undergo limb regeneration or use highly advanced prosthetics to become Lethe. Nog has a biosynthetic and Geordi has his VISOR so it likely means that regeneration is not used in the 23rd or 24th Century Federation.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,218 Arc User
    The spore drive will be continuously developed and Starfleet will eventually remove the need for a biological component with technologic improvements(and remove the need to do ship spins), dub it "transwarp" and install the first system that doesn't require a biological component on to the new USS Excelsior. However, a "sabotage" happens to the Excelsior and the Federation assumes that, even though they got it right the second time, their previous assumption of the drive needing the biological component persists and development of "transwarp" closes till the late 24th century.

    Calling it now.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    orangeitis wrote: »
    The spore drive will be continuously developed and Starfleet will eventually remove the need for a biological component with technologic improvements(and remove the need to do ship spins), dub it "transwarp" and install the first system that doesn't require a biological component on to the new USS Excelsior. However, a "sabotage" happens to the Excelsior and the Federation assumes that, even though they got it right the second time, their previous assumption of the drive needing the biological component persists and development of "transwarp" closes till the late 24th century.

    Calling it now.
    I kinda figured the tech that went into excelsior was derived from Xindi Vortex drives.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    daveyny wrote: »
    And if Lorca's Admiral Cornwell lover, turns out to be the Lethe from TOS "Dagger of the Mind", (and they do look very similar - see below) then her eventually ending up at the Tantalus V - Rehab Colony also ties into this theory.

    I forget if Kol chopped off Corwell's legs or if he just disabled them. If true, then she would need to undergo limb regeneration or use highly advanced prosthetics to become Lethe. Nog has a biosynthetic and Geordi has his VISOR so it likely means that regeneration is not used in the 23rd or 24th Century Federation.

    Just disabled. And Kol didn't really do anything to her, she was just lying there, presumed dead. L'Rell seemed to have electro(plasma)cuted her.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • damienvryce2damienvryce2 Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Just use Vulcans. I'm sure their brains and bodies could handle the shroom drive. Makes sense to me.

    But since it has to fail for canon sake, it's likely going to be a catastrophic failure since there is absolutely no mention of it being used by anyone in the future.
    STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
    I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    my guess is still some variation of eldritch horror.

    I would love it if that were the case, but i don't see Trek going down the Lovecraftian nebulous cosmic horror path.
    If they were to take that route my guess would be they jump to a universe/dimension that is so bad or holds something so terrible they have to cut it off or good. Mirror universe seems bad but not that bad really, it'd have to be something truly terrible. Perhaps there is a universe where some cosmic monstrosity has devoured all life and it hungers for a new realm to devour. But a combination of Trek, Hellboy and Lovecraft's mythos seems unlikely.

    Or, the spore network gets killed off or damaged somehow is another guess.
    SulMatuul.png
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    my guess is still some variation of eldritch horror.

    I would love it if that were the case, but i don't see Trek going down the Lovecraftian nebulous cosmic horror path.
    If they were to take that route my guess would be they jump to a universe/dimension that is so bad or holds something so terrible they have to cut it off or good. Mirror universe seems bad but not that bad really, it'd have to be something truly terrible. Perhaps there is a universe where some cosmic monstrosity has devoured all life and it hungers for a new realm to devour. But a combination of Trek, Hellboy and Lovecraft's mythos seems unlikely.

    Or, the spore network gets killed off or damaged somehow is another guess.
    Remember the Solanae? Yeah, that sort of thing.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,548 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    my guess is still some variation of eldritch horror.

    I would love it if that were the case, but i don't see Trek going down the Lovecraftian nebulous cosmic horror path.
    If they were to take that route my guess would be they jump to a universe/dimension that is so bad or holds something so terrible they have to cut it off or good. Mirror universe seems bad but not that bad really, it'd have to be something truly terrible. Perhaps there is a universe where some cosmic monstrosity has devoured all life and it hungers for a new realm to devour. But a combination of Trek, Hellboy and Lovecraft's mythos seems unlikely.

    Or, the spore network gets killed off or damaged somehow is another guess.

    The more boring scenario is that Discovery just traveled to the Prime Universe from the Discovery Universe. If the spores used to power the Spore Drive are only present in the Discovery Universe, then it would give a good explanation why other Star Trek series never mentioned it. Especially if the mushrooms used to create the spores require a special type of soil. So even if the Discovery gives the spores to the 23rd Century Starfleet, then it could only be used until the spores are gone or at least limited to one ship.

    Of course, Discovery could have ripped off part of STO's Agents of Yesterday expansion and have the Spore Drive transport them to the 25th Century.

    So the issue is did Discovery start in the Prime Universe 10 years before TOS or did it end up in the Prime Universe 10 years before TOS.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I'm going with "starkaos es mucho loco" :p

    It seems more likely that we'll get a reason for why this isn't used later, maybe a retcon that it IS used just has special sauce needed.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,548 Arc User
    I'm going with "starkaos es mucho loco" :p

    It seems more likely that we'll get a reason for why this isn't used later, maybe a retcon that it IS used just has special sauce needed.

    Thanks for the compliment. I find everyone es mucho loco. It is the only explanation that can be used to make sense out of this crazy world. Normality is just hiding how insane we truly are. Some people don't bother hiding the truth. Besides, it makes the world more fun with everyone crazy.
Sign In or Register to comment.