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Well... Looks like the producers of TRIBBLE have some serious explaining to do

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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,550 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    If Discovery was able to map each point in the spore network, then a computer could be used for navigation assuming that each point didn't randomly move. Of course, such a method would require years or decades to map the spore network. So it would be helpful for creating something like the Stargate network, but not to the level that was shown in Discovery where they can instantly appear next to the enemy.

    The spore network is a chaotic network. Computers are great at using brute force or following instructions, but they are terrible at intuition. Try to create a computer program that can get from your computer to my computer without the internet addresses or the structure of the internet. The program would have to try every point in the network since every point would be a valid destination. If your computer was in the Eastern United States and my computer was in the Western United States and your signal ended up in England, then you would know you are going the wrong way. A computer would not be able to figure that out. They would just know that they were in a location called England with no understanding of how that relates to the Western United States or Eastern United States. With the spore network, it could be even more difficult. To go from the Earth to Alpha Centauri, it could require travelling through points represented by Tau Ceti, Qo'noS, Bajor, Vulcan, Ferenginar, and finally Alpha Centauri.
    That is not how mapping and plotting a course work.

    The user designates a destination and that is where the computer starts plotting from. Endpoint to where you are. Have you used a GPS navigation system? One that maps a route for you? That is how they work.

    While I have enjoyed this discussion, at this point, I think we will have to agree to disagree. While fleshy beings have creativity, intuition and experience, they are also prone to being distracted, tired, forgetful and have poor response times compared to machines. I have seen some of the really amazing things modern computers and programs can map, plenty of things that shift and move in real time. My belief is that the fleshy being is required more for drama purposes than functionality.

    The spore network is far more complex than something as simple as a highway network or the internet. Location does not need to correspond to distance. So going from Earth to Alpha Centauri might require travelling the equivalent of 70,000 lightyears while travelling from Earth to Ocampa might be the equivalent of travelling 4 lightyears. I might be exaggerating about how bad it is, but the Stellaris Hyperlane system shows the problem with the spore network.

    2016_05_19_5.png

    Notice how some of the star systems that are relatively close by to another star system can take travelling through 10 or 20 jumps while locations that are just as close only require travelling through a couple of star systems. Of course, the spore network is instantaneous, but Stamet or the Tardigrade has to plot a course through each star system to get to the right location. Throw in the possibility that the spore network constantly changes and organic life is much better than computers at navigating the network. Computers are terrible at recognizing patterns which is what might be needed for using the spore network.

    tasks.png
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,828 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »

    It is implied that Ripper might be sentient by the Doctor. Being a prisoner, completely alien to anything the Federation has encountered, and being used in experiments against their will definitely doesn't help with having philosophical discussions. Since we only saw Ripper at their absolute worst, then there is no way to determine if they are intelligent. Although, being able to be used as an organic supercomputer implies that Ripper is intelligent.

    It's not unlike the ethical implications of what happened on the Equinox. The difference is that DIS has better writing.

    How poorly written is Equinox (haven't seen it) if TRIBBLE has better writing?
    I've seen fanfiction that has a more original and better storyline than TRIBBLE, so Equinox must be horrid.

    Equinox was kind of a throw away plot to let Janeway go all Rambo on another Starfleet ship while gloating about how ethically superior she was during the previous seasons of the show (which occurred after she gave the Borg weapons to exterminate Species 8472). Sadly the writing feeds into the Janeway as a tyrant concept. As soon as Janeway learns there is another Starfleet ship in the Delta Quadrant the first thing she does is look up a regulation that will let her claim seniority over the other captain, and then declares her intent to scuttle the second ship. All of this occurs before Janeway has any clue that the Equinox crew has done anything immoral. The episode ends with her declaring the entire crew of the other ship irredeemably guilty and uses it as justification to kill all but a couple of them. Overall it was a pretty low point for Janeway's character.

    Also it didn't make much sense that Equinox was brought to the Delta Quadrant prior to Voyager by the same circumstances without investigating.
    And good point about Janeway. She was always jumping back and forth ethically and morally. In the episode "Phage" she was not willing to kill a Vidiian to get Neelix his lungs back because that would be egoistic, but a season later she happily tells Tuvix to go f*** himself for wanting to exist while she simply wanted Tuvok and Neelix (mostly Tuvok) back. She literally made an individual that was born from an accident hate itself so much that it willingly gave up on its life.

    The writers behind Voyager were that stupid throughout the entire seven seasons.

    It's actually even worse than that. Tuvix was begging not to be killed but Janeway ordered the Doctor to do it anyway, and then switched him off and did it herself when the Doctor rightly refused the illegal order.

    The Doctor should've just sedated her and had Chakotay take command for a while.
    On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,550 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »

    It is implied that Ripper might be sentient by the Doctor. Being a prisoner, completely alien to anything the Federation has encountered, and being used in experiments against their will definitely doesn't help with having philosophical discussions. Since we only saw Ripper at their absolute worst, then there is no way to determine if they are intelligent. Although, being able to be used as an organic supercomputer implies that Ripper is intelligent.

    It's not unlike the ethical implications of what happened on the Equinox. The difference is that DIS has better writing.

    How poorly written is Equinox (haven't seen it) if TRIBBLE has better writing?
    I've seen fanfiction that has a more original and better storyline than TRIBBLE, so Equinox must be horrid.

    Equinox was kind of a throw away plot to let Janeway go all Rambo on another Starfleet ship while gloating about how ethically superior she was during the previous seasons of the show (which occurred after she gave the Borg weapons to exterminate Species 8472). Sadly the writing feeds into the Janeway as a tyrant concept. As soon as Janeway learns there is another Starfleet ship in the Delta Quadrant the first thing she does is look up a regulation that will let her claim seniority over the other captain, and then declares her intent to scuttle the second ship. All of this occurs before Janeway has any clue that the Equinox crew has done anything immoral. The episode ends with her declaring the entire crew of the other ship irredeemably guilty and uses it as justification to kill all but a couple of them. Overall it was a pretty low point for Janeway's character.

    Also it didn't make much sense that Equinox was brought to the Delta Quadrant prior to Voyager by the same circumstances without investigating.
    And good point about Janeway. She was always jumping back and forth ethically and morally. In the episode "Phage" she was not willing to kill a Vidiian to get Neelix his lungs back because that would be egoistic, but a season later she happily tells Tuvix to go f*** himself for wanting to exist while she simply wanted Tuvok and Neelix (mostly Tuvok) back. She literally made an individual that was born from an accident hate itself so much that it willingly gave up on its life.

    The writers behind Voyager were that stupid throughout the entire seven seasons.

    It's actually even worse than that. Tuvix was begging not to be killed but Janeway ordered the Doctor to do it anyway, and then switched him off and did it herself when the Doctor rightly refused the illegal order.

    The Doctor should've just sedated her and had Chakotay take command for a while.
    On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.

    That is assuming that there was not a way to save everyone. My opinion is that the teleporter is a cloning device that disintegrates the original and creates a duplicate copy at the destination. As long as Voyager had the patterns of Neelix, Tuvok, and Tuvix and the right materials, then everyone could have been saved.

  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    jonsills wrote: »
    On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.


    Yes, but ultimately it's not about making a choice but about accepting a change. I know that many scenes in that episode are trying to manipulate the audience into thinking that Tuvix is creepy and everybody misses Neelix and Tuvok so much, but I don't fall for that. The matter at hand is that there was a change that nobody accepted.

    Tuvix was there and alive. He shared traits and expertise from both Neelix and Tuvok. He also developed his own personality around traits from both personalities. So. Ultimately, nothing would have been truly lost and the "at the expense of somebody else"-point is thus completely pointless. He lived at the expense of two seperate beings that were combined into one instead. One mouth less to feed I'd say, especially in Voyager's circumstance of having "limited" supplies due to being stranded.

    And even without all that considered, Tuvix was well and alive, didn't commit crimes or anything and he had a right to exist as much as everybody else.

  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,132 Arc User
    And even without all that considered, Tuvix was well and alive, didn't commit crimes or anything and he had a right to exist as much as everybody else.

    So did Tuvok and Neelix. Who spoke up for them and their right to live?

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,828 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »

    It is implied that Ripper might be sentient by the Doctor. Being a prisoner, completely alien to anything the Federation has encountered, and being used in experiments against their will definitely doesn't help with having philosophical discussions. Since we only saw Ripper at their absolute worst, then there is no way to determine if they are intelligent. Although, being able to be used as an organic supercomputer implies that Ripper is intelligent.

    It's not unlike the ethical implications of what happened on the Equinox. The difference is that DIS has better writing.

    How poorly written is Equinox (haven't seen it) if TRIBBLE has better writing?
    I've seen fanfiction that has a more original and better storyline than TRIBBLE, so Equinox must be horrid.

    Equinox was kind of a throw away plot to let Janeway go all Rambo on another Starfleet ship while gloating about how ethically superior she was during the previous seasons of the show (which occurred after she gave the Borg weapons to exterminate Species 8472). Sadly the writing feeds into the Janeway as a tyrant concept. As soon as Janeway learns there is another Starfleet ship in the Delta Quadrant the first thing she does is look up a regulation that will let her claim seniority over the other captain, and then declares her intent to scuttle the second ship. All of this occurs before Janeway has any clue that the Equinox crew has done anything immoral. The episode ends with her declaring the entire crew of the other ship irredeemably guilty and uses it as justification to kill all but a couple of them. Overall it was a pretty low point for Janeway's character.

    Also it didn't make much sense that Equinox was brought to the Delta Quadrant prior to Voyager by the same circumstances without investigating.
    And good point about Janeway. She was always jumping back and forth ethically and morally. In the episode "Phage" she was not willing to kill a Vidiian to get Neelix his lungs back because that would be egoistic, but a season later she happily tells Tuvix to go f*** himself for wanting to exist while she simply wanted Tuvok and Neelix (mostly Tuvok) back. She literally made an individual that was born from an accident hate itself so much that it willingly gave up on its life.

    The writers behind Voyager were that stupid throughout the entire seven seasons.

    It's actually even worse than that. Tuvix was begging not to be killed but Janeway ordered the Doctor to do it anyway, and then switched him off and did it herself when the Doctor rightly refused the illegal order.

    The Doctor should've just sedated her and had Chakotay take command for a while.
    On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.

    That is assuming that there was not a way to save everyone. My opinion is that the teleporter is a cloning device that disintegrates the original and creates a duplicate copy at the destination. As long as Voyager had the patterns of Neelix, Tuvok, and Tuvix and the right materials, then everyone could have been saved.
    Your "opinion" has been thoroughly discredited by Word of God. And trying to use anything from The Big Bang Theory, whose alleged humor is based on mocking nerds, is hardly going to prove anything - the closest they come to "accuracy" is on those whiteboards in the apartment, whose equations are written out for them by honest-to-Hawking physicists.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    And even without all that considered, Tuvix was well and alive, didn't commit crimes or anything and he had a right to exist as much as everybody else.

    So did Tuvok and Neelix. Who spoke up for them and their right to live?

    In a way they were not dead. Tuvix basically combined their skills, memories and traits of their personalities. The only thing they'd have lost would have been a full-time-cook in the mess-hall. And one actor would have had to find a new job.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,132 Arc User
    In a way they were not dead.

    Did either of them have their individuality and freedom to live their lives as they wanted? No.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    valoreah wrote: »
    In a way they were not dead.

    Did either of them have their individuality and freedom to live their lives as they wanted? No.

    It's actually hard to tell. To get clear answers to that they would have needed to leave Tuvix be Tuvix for a season or two and THEN decide what to do. By that time they might have even figured out alternative solutions. Plus, it would have made for a great B-storythread over the show and might have made it a lot more interesting IMO. It would have been the more um.. I don't know.. the more Star-Trek-like solution to actually give it time and figure stuff out before doing a quick emotional decision. You know, looking into the human condition a bit more and actually doing some research in the field to find out how they could make one person that was previously two persons into three perhaps?

    Eventually that failure is to blame on the writers behind Voyager that had no clue what they were doing. They thought the audience is stupid and they just need to push the tearduct-buttons a bit. But in fact, the stuff in that episode was not suited for one episode that had to be concluded by the end.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,132 Arc User
    It's actually hard to tell.

    No, it isn't hard to tell at all.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    It's actually hard to tell.

    No, it isn't hard to tell at all.

    You see, that's the thing about actual sci-fi. Everything is possible in sci-fi.

    There is no confirmed precedent in real life that tells us how a combination of two persons would actually work. Tuvix definately was going to be his own individual, but he clearly expressed that multiple traces of the two individuals that formed him were still there.

    These traces were never further looked into. It was like "Oh but I miss Neelix" "Oh but I miss Tuvok" "Tuvix is so creepy". Guess what? F*** him then, have Janeway just be a dipsh*t once more.

    Bad writing. Period.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    It's actually hard to tell.

    No, it isn't hard to tell at all.

    You see, that's the thing about actual sci-fi. Everything is possible in sci-fi.

    There is no confirmed precedent in real life that tells us how a combination of two persons would actually work. Tuvix definately was going to be his own individual, but he clearly expressed that multiple traces of the two individuals that formed him were still there.

    These traces were never further looked into. It was like "Oh but I miss Neelix" "Oh but I miss Tuvok" "Tuvix is so creepy". Guess what? F*** him then, have Janeway just be a dipsh*t once more.

    Bad writing. Period.

    it's a value judgement, do you REALLY want a security chief who lies a lot and cooks things that kill the ship? or a cook who can break your spine with his pinky if you criticise the soup in the mess-hall?

    Tuvix isn't the BEST traits of the two entities he's composed of, nor the worst traits....he's a mixture that is an unknown factor the moment you need to have known factors. for example, how good could he be at his job if, in the event of security breach, he reacts like NEELIX instead of like an officer who's served for decades? How about in a situation that requires empathy and understanding-but instead, you get rigid Tuvokisms?

    Tuvix the entity is a civilian, not because he necessarily lacks the training, but because his reactions are no longer something that the crew can actually count on in a crisis. It really doesn't matter so much whether people liked, or disliked the composite entity, when you're dealing with critical function, you need to have your officers 'on point' and ready for duty.

    You're making a good, logical point here. But...

    In case I didn't make it clear. This entire episode is the result of bad writing. Like pretty much every other Voyager-episode.
    The writers went a very cheap route with it. Combine two individuals via a transporter-accident and have the crew be like crybabies about the losses until they start talking about morality a bit (on a low level) and have the lead decide to kill a new individual that was the direct result of said accident to remedy the accident.

    This kinda thing worked a lot better in episodes from TOS and TNG. Kirk:2 and Rascals from TNG are examples of how you can do something like that much better without further implications according to the episodic format (the major conflict has to be concluded by the end). Tuvix as an episode was simply not suited for that - considering the competence of Voyager's writing-team.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    patrickngo wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    It's actually hard to tell.

    No, it isn't hard to tell at all.

    You see, that's the thing about actual sci-fi. Everything is possible in sci-fi.

    There is no confirmed precedent in real life that tells us how a combination of two persons would actually work. Tuvix definately was going to be his own individual, but he clearly expressed that multiple traces of the two individuals that formed him were still there.

    These traces were never further looked into. It was like "Oh but I miss Neelix" "Oh but I miss Tuvok" "Tuvix is so creepy". Guess what? F*** him then, have Janeway just be a dipsh*t once more.

    Bad writing. Period.

    it's a value judgement, do you REALLY want a security chief who lies a lot and cooks things that kill the ship? or a cook who can break your spine with his pinky if you criticise the soup in the mess-hall?

    Tuvix isn't the BEST traits of the two entities he's composed of, nor the worst traits....he's a mixture that is an unknown factor the moment you need to have known factors. for example, how good could he be at his job if, in the event of security breach, he reacts like NEELIX instead of like an officer who's served for decades? How about in a situation that requires empathy and understanding-but instead, you get rigid Tuvokisms?

    Tuvix the entity is a civilian, not because he necessarily lacks the training, but because his reactions are no longer something that the crew can actually count on in a crisis. It really doesn't matter so much whether people liked, or disliked the composite entity, when you're dealing with critical function, you need to have your officers 'on point' and ready for duty.

    You're making a good, logical point here. But...

    In case I didn't make it clear. This entire episode is the result of bad writing. Like pretty much every other Voyager-episode.
    The writers went a very cheap route with it. Combine two individuals via a transporter-accident and have the crew be like crybabies about the losses until they start talking about morality a bit (on a low level) and have the lead decide to kill a new individual that was the direct result of said accident to remedy the accident.

    This kinda thing worked a lot better in episodes from TOS and TNG. Kirk:2 and Rascals from TNG are examples of how you can do something like that much better without further implications according to the episodic format (the major conflict has to be concluded by the end). Tuvix as an episode was simply not suited for that - considering the competence of Voyager's writing-team.

    considering I actually rate Voyager below Enterprise in terms of writing quality, I am forced to agree with you.

    Enterprise had some potential to it. Voyager had potential too, but it would have needed a writing team like the BSG-one to make it believable. But prequels are always a difficult thing IMO, it's harder to write them properly than it seems. And they saved their better scripts for so long that by the time they pulled some of them out the show was already dead. You could even tell the cast was depressed by the start of season four, when they all look like tired, defeated and all that optimism of going into space again is like completely not there when they try to force smiles at each other when the slightly refitted NX-01 embarks again. It was really sad to watch that.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Honestly? TOS had good moments, but overall I think the writing in TOS sucked.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,994 Arc User
    if course it did - it was a product of the 60s when everyone was baking their brains on acid​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • jansil#1393 jansil Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I fell in love with Star Trek as a kid, watching reruns of TOS. To this day, I loath James T. Kirk because not only of the Bad Writing, but also because of the Bad-Acting as well. I actually cheered when he died in the TNG:Generations movie, because we would never see Shatner again. Chris Pine > William Shatner any day. DS9 was the best in Writing, in my opinion, followed by TNG.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,132 Arc User
    I fell in love with Star Trek as a kid, watching reruns of TOS. To this day, I loath James T. Kirk because not only of the Bad Writing, but also because of the Bad-Acting as well. I actually cheered when he died in the TNG:Generations movie, because we would never see Shatner again. Chris Pine > William Shatner any day.

    Blasphemer!
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • jansil#1393 jansil Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    I fell in love with Star Trek as a kid, watching reruns of TOS. To this day, I loath James T. Kirk because not only of the Bad Writing, but also because of the Bad-Acting as well. I actually cheered when he died in the TNG:Generations movie, because we would never see Shatner again. Chris Pine > William Shatner any day.

    Blasphemer!

    Great Character, but a bad actor ruined him. The Chris Pine version of Kirk, is a thousand times better. I would love to see a full TOS remake with the Kelvin Timeline Actors.
  • tousseautousseau Member Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    Bah...

    The Spores can be nothing else but "Melange".

    While the tartigrade obviously belong to the Spacing Guild...
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    Honestly? TOS had good moments, but overall I think the writing in TOS sucked.

    It was a different time and the quality of an episode largely depended on which author's pass they picked and Roddenberry had too much influence as well. He was not the genius people often want to make him out to be. He had a good *general* idea back then, he was not a good producer though. Good episodes were the result of good writing of creative authors.

    TNG, while overall being okay, had many relatively bad episodes too, but the overall quality was most of the time still leagues above Voyager.

    DS9 had the best writing-team of all Star Trek (but also derived from the classic episodic formula lateron), at least from the end of season 2 onwards. It kinda stagnated after season 6 though. Season 7 and the series-finale were very unsatisfying to me, and the end of the Dominion-War was achieved in a way that felt like the authors went out of ideas and just rushed *some* conclusion out. Like Dukat posing as a bajoran and nobody getting suspicious about that familiar face and voice (Alaimo still looked and sounded like Dukat even without his usual prosthetics, if bajorans are so easy to fool there'd have never been a resistance).

    DIS has high production-values, and the writers seem to treat the given source-material with a lot more respect than I hoped for initially. Not having Berman or Braga involved is another plus.

  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,132 Arc User
    Great Character, but a bad actor ruined him.

    As a fully ordained minister in the First Church of Shatnerology and laureate of the Institute for Toupological Studies, I declare this post heresy.
    The Chris Pine version of Kirk, is a thousand times better. I would love to see a full TOS remake with the Kelvin Timeline Actors.

    As would I. :wink:

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,994 Arc User
    i declare your declaration of heresy to be heresy​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    Shatner also wrote the best comedy-novels in the world. Oh wait... they're supposed to be sequels to Generations.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,132 Arc User
    i declare your declaration of heresy to be heresy​​

    Wouldn't that be double heresy??
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,550 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »

    It is implied that Ripper might be sentient by the Doctor. Being a prisoner, completely alien to anything the Federation has encountered, and being used in experiments against their will definitely doesn't help with having philosophical discussions. Since we only saw Ripper at their absolute worst, then there is no way to determine if they are intelligent. Although, being able to be used as an organic supercomputer implies that Ripper is intelligent.

    It's not unlike the ethical implications of what happened on the Equinox. The difference is that DIS has better writing.

    How poorly written is Equinox (haven't seen it) if TRIBBLE has better writing?
    I've seen fanfiction that has a more original and better storyline than TRIBBLE, so Equinox must be horrid.

    Equinox was kind of a throw away plot to let Janeway go all Rambo on another Starfleet ship while gloating about how ethically superior she was during the previous seasons of the show (which occurred after she gave the Borg weapons to exterminate Species 8472). Sadly the writing feeds into the Janeway as a tyrant concept. As soon as Janeway learns there is another Starfleet ship in the Delta Quadrant the first thing she does is look up a regulation that will let her claim seniority over the other captain, and then declares her intent to scuttle the second ship. All of this occurs before Janeway has any clue that the Equinox crew has done anything immoral. The episode ends with her declaring the entire crew of the other ship irredeemably guilty and uses it as justification to kill all but a couple of them. Overall it was a pretty low point for Janeway's character.

    Also it didn't make much sense that Equinox was brought to the Delta Quadrant prior to Voyager by the same circumstances without investigating.
    And good point about Janeway. She was always jumping back and forth ethically and morally. In the episode "Phage" she was not willing to kill a Vidiian to get Neelix his lungs back because that would be egoistic, but a season later she happily tells Tuvix to go f*** himself for wanting to exist while she simply wanted Tuvok and Neelix (mostly Tuvok) back. She literally made an individual that was born from an accident hate itself so much that it willingly gave up on its life.

    The writers behind Voyager were that stupid throughout the entire seven seasons.

    It's actually even worse than that. Tuvix was begging not to be killed but Janeway ordered the Doctor to do it anyway, and then switched him off and did it herself when the Doctor rightly refused the illegal order.

    The Doctor should've just sedated her and had Chakotay take command for a while.
    On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.

    That is assuming that there was not a way to save everyone. My opinion is that the teleporter is a cloning device that disintegrates the original and creates a duplicate copy at the destination. As long as Voyager had the patterns of Neelix, Tuvok, and Tuvix and the right materials, then everyone could have been saved.
    Your "opinion" has been thoroughly discredited by Word of God. And trying to use anything from The Big Bang Theory, whose alleged humor is based on mocking nerds, is hardly going to prove anything - the closest they come to "accuracy" is on those whiteboards in the apartment, whose equations are written out for them by honest-to-Hawking physicists.

    Even if you have a problem with The Big Bang Theory, it still doesn't disprove that video. The teleporter is known to work by disintegrating a person at one location and reintegrating the person in another location. The teleporter has already cloned Riker in the Second Chances episode and split Kirk into his good and evil counterparts in the Evil Within episode.

    Therefore, the teleporter is able to clone individuals provided the right modifications are made and the only reason why the Federation doesn't do it is due to the ethical implications of cloning. It also ruins any drama in the show since any dead Starfleet Officer could just be cloned using their pattern from the last time they used the teleporter. So Janeway could have saved Tuvok, Tuvix, and Neelix provided she gave any effort in saving all three of them.
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