If I remember correctly, I believe there is a definitive time limit on how long the pattern buffer can hold a person's data stream before it starts to degrade.
That's why Scotty had to come up with a clever way to alter the transporter pattern buffer on the USS JENOLAN to hold his pattern for so many years in "RELICS".
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
It is implied that Ripper might be sentient by the Doctor. Being a prisoner, completely alien to anything the Federation has encountered, and being used in experiments against their will definitely doesn't help with having philosophical discussions. Since we only saw Ripper at their absolute worst, then there is no way to determine if they are intelligent. Although, being able to be used as an organic supercomputer implies that Ripper is intelligent.
It's not unlike the ethical implications of what happened on the Equinox. The difference is that DIS has better writing.
How poorly written is Equinox (haven't seen it) if TRIBBLE has better writing?
I've seen fanfiction that has a more original and better storyline than TRIBBLE, so Equinox must be horrid.
Equinox was kind of a throw away plot to let Janeway go all Rambo on another Starfleet ship while gloating about how ethically superior she was during the previous seasons of the show (which occurred after she gave the Borg weapons to exterminate Species 8472). Sadly the writing feeds into the Janeway as a tyrant concept. As soon as Janeway learns there is another Starfleet ship in the Delta Quadrant the first thing she does is look up a regulation that will let her claim seniority over the other captain, and then declares her intent to scuttle the second ship. All of this occurs before Janeway has any clue that the Equinox crew has done anything immoral. The episode ends with her declaring the entire crew of the other ship irredeemably guilty and uses it as justification to kill all but a couple of them. Overall it was a pretty low point for Janeway's character.
Also it didn't make much sense that Equinox was brought to the Delta Quadrant prior to Voyager by the same circumstances without investigating.
And good point about Janeway. She was always jumping back and forth ethically and morally. In the episode "Phage" she was not willing to kill a Vidiian to get Neelix his lungs back because that would be egoistic, but a season later she happily tells Tuvix to go f*** himself for wanting to exist while she simply wanted Tuvok and Neelix (mostly Tuvok) back. She literally made an individual that was born from an accident hate itself so much that it willingly gave up on its life.
The writers behind Voyager were that stupid throughout the entire seven seasons.
It's actually even worse than that. Tuvix was begging not to be killed but Janeway ordered the Doctor to do it anyway, and then switched him off and did it herself when the Doctor rightly refused the illegal order.
The Doctor should've just sedated her and had Chakotay take command for a while.
On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.
That is assuming that there was not a way to save everyone. My opinion is that the teleporter is a cloning device that disintegrates the original and creates a duplicate copy at the destination. As long as Voyager had the patterns of Neelix, Tuvok, and Tuvix and the right materials, then everyone could have been saved.
Your "opinion" has been thoroughly discredited by Word of God. And trying to use anything from The Big Bang Theory, whose alleged humor is based on mocking nerds, is hardly going to prove anything - the closest they come to "accuracy" is on those whiteboards in the apartment, whose equations are written out for them by honest-to-Hawking physicists.
Even if you have a problem with The Big Bang Theory, it still doesn't disprove that video. The teleporter is known to work by disintegrating a person at one location and reintegrating the person in another location. The teleporter has already cloned Riker in the Second Chances episode and split Kirk into his good and evil counterparts in the Evil Within episode.
Therefore, the teleporter is able to clone individuals provided the right modifications are made and the only reason why the Federation doesn't do it is due to the ethical implications of cloning. It also ruins any drama in the show since any dead Starfleet Officer could just be cloned using their pattern from the last time they used the teleporter. So Janeway could have saved Tuvok, Tuvix, and Neelix provided she gave any effort in saving all three of them.
It doesn't disintegrate or recreate things, it converts a person from matter to energy and back again, a process during which the person being transported is "fully conscious" through the entire process, even when in the "disassembled" state.
Yes Riker was duplicated, but through a freak accident that would normally be impossible. Just like Voyager had all its matter duplicated as a result of passing through a Subspace divergence field. As for Kirk, he wasn't truly duplicated, which is why he was dying and had to be re-integrated in order to survive.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Even if you have a problem with The Big Bang Theory, it still doesn't disprove that video. The teleporter is known to work by disintegrating a person at one location and reintegrating the person in another location. The teleporter has already cloned Riker in the Second Chances episode and split Kirk into his good and evil counterparts in the Evil Within episode.
The transporter operates on pixie dust.
It's why you get Charles Barkley grabbing space worms while beaming around (you couldn't do that if you were obliterated then copied). Additionally, all those episodes where the transporter 'failed' would be awkward.
"Well, we tried to beam the captain up, but something stopped the transit process. Guess we need a new captain."
It is implied that Ripper might be sentient by the Doctor. Being a prisoner, completely alien to anything the Federation has encountered, and being used in experiments against their will definitely doesn't help with having philosophical discussions. Since we only saw Ripper at their absolute worst, then there is no way to determine if they are intelligent. Although, being able to be used as an organic supercomputer implies that Ripper is intelligent.
It's not unlike the ethical implications of what happened on the Equinox. The difference is that DIS has better writing.
How poorly written is Equinox (haven't seen it) if TRIBBLE has better writing?
I've seen fanfiction that has a more original and better storyline than TRIBBLE, so Equinox must be horrid.
Equinox was kind of a throw away plot to let Janeway go all Rambo on another Starfleet ship while gloating about how ethically superior she was during the previous seasons of the show (which occurred after she gave the Borg weapons to exterminate Species 8472). Sadly the writing feeds into the Janeway as a tyrant concept. As soon as Janeway learns there is another Starfleet ship in the Delta Quadrant the first thing she does is look up a regulation that will let her claim seniority over the other captain, and then declares her intent to scuttle the second ship. All of this occurs before Janeway has any clue that the Equinox crew has done anything immoral. The episode ends with her declaring the entire crew of the other ship irredeemably guilty and uses it as justification to kill all but a couple of them. Overall it was a pretty low point for Janeway's character.
Also it didn't make much sense that Equinox was brought to the Delta Quadrant prior to Voyager by the same circumstances without investigating.
And good point about Janeway. She was always jumping back and forth ethically and morally. In the episode "Phage" she was not willing to kill a Vidiian to get Neelix his lungs back because that would be egoistic, but a season later she happily tells Tuvix to go f*** himself for wanting to exist while she simply wanted Tuvok and Neelix (mostly Tuvok) back. She literally made an individual that was born from an accident hate itself so much that it willingly gave up on its life.
The writers behind Voyager were that stupid throughout the entire seven seasons.
It's actually even worse than that. Tuvix was begging not to be killed but Janeway ordered the Doctor to do it anyway, and then switched him off and did it herself when the Doctor rightly refused the illegal order.
The Doctor should've just sedated her and had Chakotay take command for a while.
On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.
That is assuming that there was not a way to save everyone. My opinion is that the teleporter is a cloning device that disintegrates the original and creates a duplicate copy at the destination. As long as Voyager had the patterns of Neelix, Tuvok, and Tuvix and the right materials, then everyone could have been saved.
Your "opinion" has been thoroughly discredited by Word of God. And trying to use anything from The Big Bang Theory, whose alleged humor is based on mocking nerds, is hardly going to prove anything - the closest they come to "accuracy" is on those whiteboards in the apartment, whose equations are written out for them by honest-to-Hawking physicists.
Even if you have a problem with The Big Bang Theory, it still doesn't disprove that video. The teleporter is known to work by disintegrating a person at one location and reintegrating the person in another location. The teleporter has already cloned Riker in the Second Chances episode and split Kirk into his good and evil counterparts in the Evil Within episode.
Therefore, the teleporter is able to clone individuals provided the right modifications are made and the only reason why the Federation doesn't do it is due to the ethical implications of cloning. It also ruins any drama in the show since any dead Starfleet Officer could just be cloned using their pattern from the last time they used the teleporter. So Janeway could have saved Tuvok, Tuvix, and Neelix provided she gave any effort in saving all three of them.
It doesn't disintegrate or recreate things, it converts a person from matter to energy and back again, a process during which the person being transported is "fully conscious" through the entire process, even when in the "disassembled" state.
Yes Riker was duplicated, but through a freak accident that would normally be impossible. Just like Voyager had all its matter duplicated as a result of passing through a Subspace divergence field. As for Kirk, he wasn't truly duplicated, which is why he was dying and had to be re-integrated in order to survive.
You call it converts a person from matter to energy while I call it disintegration. Vaporizing a person with a phaser until there is nothing left is converting a person from matter to energy. Only difference is that the transporter records your energy pattern while the phaser doesn't. Either way your original body is disassembled and a pattern is created. It is not as simple as changing a person into energy and then back into matter. The only teleportation that I liked was the folded space transporter in The High Ground episode from TNG. Sure it slowly kills you, but at least it doesn't kill you and creates an exact copy.
If a freak accident happened once, then it can happen again. It is just a matter of figuring out why it happened and duplicating the process. So if the transporter is capable of cloning an individual, then it can clone an army provided the right conditions are met. All that matters is the ethics of it.
You can call it "disintegration" if you like, but Word of God, that is to say the people who created this fiction, say you're wrong.
I mean, I could say that the warp drive functions by putting all their yardsticks into cold water so they shrink and thus measure shorter distances between stars. I'd be wrong, but I could say that...
You can call it "disintegration" if you like, but Word of God, that is to say the people who created this fiction, say you're wrong.
I mean, I could say that the warp drive functions by putting all their yardsticks into cold water so they shrink and thus measure shorter distances between stars. I'd be wrong, but I could say that...
Being turned into energy is hazardous to almost everyone's health. The only times when it is not is some alien race evolving into some energy lifeform and Q having some fun.
If you want to experience the fun of teleportation by having your entire body dismantled into an energy pattern and have an identical copy appear in a different location, then go right ahead. I will wait for the alternative that doesn't require killing me.
The philosophical ramifications of teleportation depend on the philosophy a person believes in. A materialist would be perfectly happy with teleportation due to it doesn't matter if they exist as this bundle of particles or another bundle of particles that have exactly the same pattern as the previous bundle.
Any person that believes in the soul would have a problem with transportation due to what happens to the soul. If the body is just a container for the soul, then it doesn't matter where the body is since either the body will not work due to the soul being permanently separated from the body resulting in transporters being only useful for non-living items or the soul will always follow the body.
Doesent qumtom machinacs say the is u dismantle something at the qumtom lvl and reassemble it someware else at the qumtom lvl excatly the same it is tge same thing? And theres that entanglement thoey going round.........
It is implied that Ripper might be sentient by the Doctor. Being a prisoner, completely alien to anything the Federation has encountered, and being used in experiments against their will definitely doesn't help with having philosophical discussions. Since we only saw Ripper at their absolute worst, then there is no way to determine if they are intelligent. Although, being able to be used as an organic supercomputer implies that Ripper is intelligent.
It's not unlike the ethical implications of what happened on the Equinox. The difference is that DIS has better writing.
How poorly written is Equinox (haven't seen it) if TRIBBLE has better writing?
I've seen fanfiction that has a more original and better storyline than TRIBBLE, so Equinox must be horrid.
Equinox was kind of a throw away plot to let Janeway go all Rambo on another Starfleet ship while gloating about how ethically superior she was during the previous seasons of the show (which occurred after she gave the Borg weapons to exterminate Species 8472). Sadly the writing feeds into the Janeway as a tyrant concept. As soon as Janeway learns there is another Starfleet ship in the Delta Quadrant the first thing she does is look up a regulation that will let her claim seniority over the other captain, and then declares her intent to scuttle the second ship. All of this occurs before Janeway has any clue that the Equinox crew has done anything immoral. The episode ends with her declaring the entire crew of the other ship irredeemably guilty and uses it as justification to kill all but a couple of them. Overall it was a pretty low point for Janeway's character.
Also it didn't make much sense that Equinox was brought to the Delta Quadrant prior to Voyager by the same circumstances without investigating.
And good point about Janeway. She was always jumping back and forth ethically and morally. In the episode "Phage" she was not willing to kill a Vidiian to get Neelix his lungs back because that would be egoistic, but a season later she happily tells Tuvix to go f*** himself for wanting to exist while she simply wanted Tuvok and Neelix (mostly Tuvok) back. She literally made an individual that was born from an accident hate itself so much that it willingly gave up on its life.
The writers behind Voyager were that stupid throughout the entire seven seasons.
It's actually even worse than that. Tuvix was begging not to be killed but Janeway ordered the Doctor to do it anyway, and then switched him off and did it herself when the Doctor rightly refused the illegal order.
The Doctor should've just sedated her and had Chakotay take command for a while.
On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.
That is assuming that there was not a way to save everyone. My opinion is that the teleporter is a cloning device that disintegrates the original and creates a duplicate copy at the destination. As long as Voyager had the patterns of Neelix, Tuvok, and Tuvix and the right materials, then everyone could have been saved.
Your "opinion" has been thoroughly discredited by Word of God. And trying to use anything from The Big Bang Theory, whose alleged humor is based on mocking nerds, is hardly going to prove anything - the closest they come to "accuracy" is on those whiteboards in the apartment, whose equations are written out for them by honest-to-Hawking physicists.
Even if you have a problem with The Big Bang Theory, it still doesn't disprove that video. The teleporter is known to work by disintegrating a person at one location and reintegrating the person in another location. The teleporter has already cloned Riker in the Second Chances episode and split Kirk into his good and evil counterparts in the Evil Within episode.
Therefore, the teleporter is able to clone individuals provided the right modifications are made and the only reason why the Federation doesn't do it is due to the ethical implications of cloning. It also ruins any drama in the show since any dead Starfleet Officer could just be cloned using their pattern from the last time they used the teleporter. So Janeway could have saved Tuvok, Tuvix, and Neelix provided she gave any effort in saving all three of them.
It doesn't disintegrate or recreate things, it converts a person from matter to energy and back again, a process during which the person being transported is "fully conscious" through the entire process, even when in the "disassembled" state.
Yes Riker was duplicated, but through a freak accident that would normally be impossible. Just like Voyager had all its matter duplicated as a result of passing through a Subspace divergence field. As for Kirk, he wasn't truly duplicated, which is why he was dying and had to be re-integrated in order to survive.
You call it converts a person from matter to energy while I call it disintegration. Vaporizing a person with a phaser until there is nothing left is converting a person from matter to energy. Only difference is that the transporter records your energy pattern while the phaser doesn't. Either way your original body is disassembled and a pattern is created. It is not as simple as changing a person into energy and then back into matter. The only teleportation that I liked was the folded space transporter in The High Ground episode from TNG. Sure it slowly kills you, but at least it doesn't kill you and creates an exact copy.
If a freak accident happened once, then it can happen again. It is just a matter of figuring out why it happened and duplicating the process. So if the transporter is capable of cloning an individual, then it can clone an army provided the right conditions are met. All that matters is the ethics of it.
I love it how you completely ignored the part where its clearly established that people remain conscious through the entire process from beginning to end.
In TNG: Realm of Fear it is shown that people can even interact with objects while IN the matter stream, I.E while they are what you call "disintegrated".
It is the definite episode that proves beyond all doubt in-universe that a transporter is not a murder/clone machine.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Doesn't this come out at just the right time? The jump drive just can't be explained in canon. It was never mentioned before and never heard of again. We have even seen 29th century ships on tv and and they were still using warp drive. This will give TRIBBLE a way out of this canon mess.
If I remember correctly, I believe there is a definitive time limit on how long the pattern buffer can hold a person's data stream before it starts to degrade.
That's why Scotty had to come up with a clever way to alter the transporter pattern buffer on the USS JENOLAN to hold his pattern for so many years in "RELICS".
But I bet that Starfleet implemented those alterations into their software for transporters after receiving Enterprise's mission-report from that event. Starfleet LIKES added safety-measures and redundancies.
But I bet that Starfleet implemented those alterations into their software for transporters after receiving Enterprise's mission-report from that event. Starfleet LIKES added safety-measures and redundancies.
That actually seems to vary quite a bit from writer to writer... Some writers/producers/directors were pretty bad about intentionally ignoring continuity. It was actually a mandated thing under different producers that they avoid mentioning stuff from previous episodes. The staff actually had to fight to get a follow up episode for Best of Both Worlds to let Picard deal with the emotional baggage of everything that happened.
Then there is just the "rule of cool" stuff where Starfleet apparently loads its consoles with fireworks and rocks to make those pretty looking explosions.
It is implied that Ripper might be sentient by the Doctor. Being a prisoner, completely alien to anything the Federation has encountered, and being used in experiments against their will definitely doesn't help with having philosophical discussions. Since we only saw Ripper at their absolute worst, then there is no way to determine if they are intelligent. Although, being able to be used as an organic supercomputer implies that Ripper is intelligent.
It's not unlike the ethical implications of what happened on the Equinox. The difference is that DIS has better writing.
How poorly written is Equinox (haven't seen it) if TRIBBLE has better writing?
I've seen fanfiction that has a more original and better storyline than TRIBBLE, so Equinox must be horrid.
Equinox was kind of a throw away plot to let Janeway go all Rambo on another Starfleet ship while gloating about how ethically superior she was during the previous seasons of the show (which occurred after she gave the Borg weapons to exterminate Species 8472). Sadly the writing feeds into the Janeway as a tyrant concept. As soon as Janeway learns there is another Starfleet ship in the Delta Quadrant the first thing she does is look up a regulation that will let her claim seniority over the other captain, and then declares her intent to scuttle the second ship. All of this occurs before Janeway has any clue that the Equinox crew has done anything immoral. The episode ends with her declaring the entire crew of the other ship irredeemably guilty and uses it as justification to kill all but a couple of them. Overall it was a pretty low point for Janeway's character.
Also it didn't make much sense that Equinox was brought to the Delta Quadrant prior to Voyager by the same circumstances without investigating.
And good point about Janeway. She was always jumping back and forth ethically and morally. In the episode "Phage" she was not willing to kill a Vidiian to get Neelix his lungs back because that would be egoistic, but a season later she happily tells Tuvix to go f*** himself for wanting to exist while she simply wanted Tuvok and Neelix (mostly Tuvok) back. She literally made an individual that was born from an accident hate itself so much that it willingly gave up on its life.
The writers behind Voyager were that stupid throughout the entire seven seasons.
It's actually even worse than that. Tuvix was begging not to be killed but Janeway ordered the Doctor to do it anyway, and then switched him off and did it herself when the Doctor rightly refused the illegal order.
The Doctor should've just sedated her and had Chakotay take command for a while.
On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.
That is assuming that there was not a way to save everyone. My opinion is that the teleporter is a cloning device that disintegrates the original and creates a duplicate copy at the destination. As long as Voyager had the patterns of Neelix, Tuvok, and Tuvix and the right materials, then everyone could have been saved.
Your "opinion" has been thoroughly discredited by Word of God. And trying to use anything from The Big Bang Theory, whose alleged humor is based on mocking nerds, is hardly going to prove anything - the closest they come to "accuracy" is on those whiteboards in the apartment, whose equations are written out for them by honest-to-Hawking physicists.
Even if you have a problem with The Big Bang Theory, it still doesn't disprove that video. The teleporter is known to work by disintegrating a person at one location and reintegrating the person in another location. The teleporter has already cloned Riker in the Second Chances episode and split Kirk into his good and evil counterparts in the Evil Within episode.
Therefore, the teleporter is able to clone individuals provided the right modifications are made and the only reason why the Federation doesn't do it is due to the ethical implications of cloning. It also ruins any drama in the show since any dead Starfleet Officer could just be cloned using their pattern from the last time they used the teleporter. So Janeway could have saved Tuvok, Tuvix, and Neelix provided she gave any effort in saving all three of them.
It doesn't disintegrate or recreate things, it converts a person from matter to energy and back again, a process during which the person being transported is "fully conscious" through the entire process, even when in the "disassembled" state.
Yes Riker was duplicated, but through a freak accident that would normally be impossible. Just like Voyager had all its matter duplicated as a result of passing through a Subspace divergence field. As for Kirk, he wasn't truly duplicated, which is why he was dying and had to be re-integrated in order to survive.
You call it converts a person from matter to energy while I call it disintegration. Vaporizing a person with a phaser until there is nothing left is converting a person from matter to energy. Only difference is that the transporter records your energy pattern while the phaser doesn't. Either way your original body is disassembled and a pattern is created. It is not as simple as changing a person into energy and then back into matter. The only teleportation that I liked was the folded space transporter in The High Ground episode from TNG. Sure it slowly kills you, but at least it doesn't kill you and creates an exact copy.
If a freak accident happened once, then it can happen again. It is just a matter of figuring out why it happened and duplicating the process. So if the transporter is capable of cloning an individual, then it can clone an army provided the right conditions are met. All that matters is the ethics of it.
I love it how you completely ignored the part where its clearly established that people remain conscious through the entire process from beginning to end.
In TNG: Realm of Fear it is shown that people can even interact with objects while IN the matter stream, I.E while they are what you call "disintegrated".
It is the definite episode that proves beyond all doubt in-universe that a transporter is not a murder/clone machine.
So the transporter temporarily converts people into energy beings? I have stated numerous times that the transporter disintegrates or dismantles people into an energy pattern. Whether that energy pattern is capable of thought and movement is not known. The perception of 'remaining conscious' could just be a hallucination created by the brain to deal with the process of disintegration and reintegration. Just like the light at the end of the tunnel for Near Death Experiences.
Realm of Fear is a freak accident. It is the only episode that had quasi-energy microbes which messed up how the transporter's energy patterns worked. Without quasi-energy microbes, the energy patterns are not stuck in transit. It is possible that the energy patterns were modified so that people were conscious of their time as an energy pattern. So there is no way to know if 99.999999% of the time, remaining conscious is merely a hallucination while 0.000001% of the time they are actually conscious within the energy pattern. Personally, I think that Barclay is the toy of some adolescent god similar to Q Jr due to all the weird experiences that he goes through.
That actually seems to vary quite a bit from writer to writer... Some writers/producers/directors were pretty bad about intentionally ignoring continuity. It was actually a mandated thing under different producers that they avoid mentioning stuff from previous episodes. The staff actually had to fight to get a follow up episode for Best of Both Worlds to let Picard deal with the emotional baggage of everything that happened.
To be fair, this particular detail is fairly minor. And having every detail from previous episodes incorporated was completely impossible for a weekly TV-show that had an episodic structure. First Contact was much more insulting to previous TNG-canon when it comes to that, especially considering that there have been several more Borg-episodes after Bobw, and Picard eventually got over his assimilation fairly well. But because of fan-service and because they felt like they wanted to make the TNG-movies more action-heavy they completely rewrote Picard's character and incorporated very stupid ideas like him being "banned" from fighting the Borg at Earth. Not to mention the Borg apparently being completely brainless now. Time-travelling Borg would be the most devastating thing ever, and there'd be no need for them to do that right in front of a federation-fleet.
Seriously. What kind of organized fleetcommand would ban a highly modern and well-armed ship from a priority-one home-defense? Even if Picard was banned they could have just confined him to quarter for the duration of the battle.
Aaaanyway.
The producers for Star Trek were most of the time the same. Gene Roddenberry passed the torch to Rick Berman at some point and aside from a majority of DS9 he was very much in control of the TV-productions (as well as the TNG-movies). Star Trek suffered from that, because on TNG he was still doing okay, but it was easier anyway as the foundation was established and they had good writers on their team. It also didn't help that when it came to the movies, Berman refused to employ actual movie-writers and resorted to his team of TV-writers. On Nemesis they changed that, but the writers they had were just some Spiner/Stewart-fanboys. For example, Picard going apesh*t driving a frikkin buggy is more like a Patrick-Stewart-thing than a Captain-Picard-thing, as driving is a hobby of Stewart.
Good writing results in episodes like Best of both worlds, where characters actually are written like they have brains and emotion.
Bad writing results in movies like Generations that lead to infinite facepalms over plot-conveniences and -holes.
I have stated numerous times that the transporter disintegrates or dismantles people into an energy pattern.
Why yes, yes you have. Interestingly enough, though, simply repeating a statement, particularly a statement contradicting the information provided by the folks who invented the silly thing and who certainly ought to know better than either of us what it does, does not make said statement correct.
I could say over and over that the Earth is flat, but it will persist in being an oblate spheroid despite me. I can say over and over and over that Jean-Luc Picard isn't in fact French, because the actor portraying him is obviously British, but the show says otherwise, and that takes precedence. And you can keep telling us that the transporter "disintegrates or dismantles people" - but this is stated to be untrue by the showrunners. They know, you don't.
The thing is, beaming is hogwash. Based on what physicists know it's nothing but pure fiction. Of course it'd be like one if not the most handy invention ever, but the cold numbers of physics put into words make it very clear that without miracles it'd be completely impossible.
For doing it the way Star Trek does it you'd need to completely dismantle matter on a subatomic level so nothing remains. Only a bit of heat, just roughly 10 billion degrees celsius (easy, right?) would be necessary to achieve this for a typical-sized adult.
The next problem would be to actually save the structure and relation of molecules and even the quantum-condition and rebuild that on a different location 1:1. Every little electron and its current state would be important.
And that's the short version.
Clone-jumping however, something like that might actually work eventually.
I have stated numerous times that the transporter disintegrates or dismantles people into an energy pattern.
Why yes, yes you have. Interestingly enough, though, simply repeating a statement, particularly a statement contradicting the information provided by the folks who invented the silly thing and who certainly ought to know better than either of us what it does, does not make said statement correct.
I could say over and over that the Earth is flat, but it will persist in being an oblate spheroid despite me. I can say over and over and over that Jean-Luc Picard isn't in fact French, because the actor portraying him is obviously British, but the show says otherwise, and that takes precedence. And you can keep telling us that the transporter "disintegrates or dismantles people" - but this is stated to be untrue by the showrunners. They know, you don't.
Transporters have been known to separate a person into their evil and good counterparts, turn adults into children, create a clone, cure a disease, and create a new body. Essentially, transporters does whatever the writers want it to. So if there is no coherent set of rules in the show to govern how the transporter works, then the showrunners, 'Word of God', and the folks who created the silly thing know how the transporter works as well as we do. According to the showrunners, 'Word of God', and the folks who created the silly thing, the transporter is just a cheap and interesting way of getting from point A to point B.
So how do you turn matter into an energy pattern without dismantling or disintegrating the matter? The simplest explanation of what a transporter is that transporters convert a person or object into an energy pattern (a process called dematerialization), then "beam" it to a target, where it is reconverted into matter (rematerialization). So for a few seconds, the entity known as jonsills is removed from existence when they are transported.
By using a powerful scanner, an energy pattern can be created without destroying the original body, but that is cloning. There is a short story and an Outer Limits episode called "Think Like a Dinosaur" where there is communication problems after a transporter is used and the original body survives until communications are restored a few days later and reveals that the transported body is just fine. The Transporter Officer has to kill the original body to 'balance the equation'. The only major difference between Star Trek transporters and other transporters work is that the original is kept alive until it is verified that the transporter worked properly.
Even if every atom is placed in its original place still doesn't change the fact that the original body ceases to exist. If you take a structure created out of lego, take it completely apart, and then build the exact same structure, it is not the original structure just something that looks like the original structure.
So as long as a ship has the crew member's energy pattern and the right equipment, then they can create as many crew members as they want, turn old and experienced officers into young and experienced officers, cure any disease or injury by restoring the crew member to a previous backup, and resurrect the dead. Transporters seem to much like a Deus Ex Machina technology.
If transporters worked like that, then they could be used as described.
They have never been used as described.
Therefore, your idea of how they work is incorrect. Instead, I'll go with the official versions - conversion and transmission, not disintegration and replacement.
Next, the lifeform or object to be beamed was scanned on the quantum level, using a molecular imaging scanner. At this point, Heisenberg compensators took into account the position and direction of all subatomic particles composing the object or individual and created a map of the physical structure being disassembled, amounting to billions of kiloquads of data.
Simultaneously, the object was broken down into a stream of subatomic particles, also called the matter stream. While certain types of energy could be transported safely, active phaser beams would be disrupted during this breakdown process. (TNG: "Datalore") The matter stream was briefly stored in a pattern buffer while the system compensates for Doppler shift to the destination.
The matter stream was then transmitted to its destination across a subspace domain. (TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II") As with any type of transmission of energy or radiation, scattering and degradation of the signal must be monitored closely. The annular confinement beam (ACB) acted to maintain the integrity of the information contained in the energy beam. Finally, the initial process was reversed and the object or individual was reassembled at the destination.
Not sure about you, but being broken down into a stream of subatomic particles certainly seems like disintegration. Conversion would mean that transported beings are somehow temporarily converted into energy and not broken down into subatomic particles.
Next, the lifeform or object to be beamed was scanned on the quantum level, using a molecular imaging scanner. At this point, Heisenberg compensators took into account the position and direction of all subatomic particles composing the object or individual and created a map of the physical structure being disassembled, amounting to billions of kiloquads of data.
Simultaneously, the object was broken down into a stream of subatomic particles, also called the matter stream. While certain types of energy could be transported safely, active phaser beams would be disrupted during this breakdown process. (TNG: "Datalore") The matter stream was briefly stored in a pattern buffer while the system compensates for Doppler shift to the destination.
The matter stream was then transmitted to its destination across a subspace domain. (TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II") As with any type of transmission of energy or radiation, scattering and degradation of the signal must be monitored closely. The annular confinement beam (ACB) acted to maintain the integrity of the information contained in the energy beam. Finally, the initial process was reversed and the object or individual was reassembled at the destination.
Not sure about you, but being broken down into a stream of subatomic particles certainly seems like disintegration. Conversion would mean that transported beings are somehow temporarily converted into energy and not broken down into subatomic particles.
Yes, that is exactly what it means. Why are you having so much trouble understanding this?
If I remember correctly, I believe there is a definitive time limit on how long the pattern buffer can hold a person's data stream before it starts to degrade.
That's why Scotty had to come up with a clever way to alter the transporter pattern buffer on the USS JENOLAN to hold his pattern for so many years in "RELICS".
The pattern buffer stored the signals as the buffer underwent a continous diagnostic scan to avoid degredation of the information stored in the buffer. Typically it takes a few minutes or few seconds of storage for a signal or a group of signals stored in buffer before it is all lost due to degredation, however the diagnostic scan made sure the patterns were not lost and neither did the signals degrade.
To accomplish it, certain systems were adjusted or removed; the transporters got power from the auxillary systems while the rematerialisation subroutines were disabled, so there is no way to rearrange the signals back into what they were before. Meanwhile the phase inducers were connected to the emitter array. Due to what some people on the series implied, phase inducers are probably some sort of mechanical component in the power systems of a starship while the array is some form of technology that works to project energy, they are usually found in transporters, tractor beams to shielding based technologies.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Next, the lifeform or object to be beamed was scanned on the quantum level, using a molecular imaging scanner. At this point, Heisenberg compensators took into account the position and direction of all subatomic particles composing the object or individual and created a map of the physical structure being disassembled, amounting to billions of kiloquads of data.
Simultaneously, the object was broken down into a stream of subatomic particles, also called the matter stream. While certain types of energy could be transported safely, active phaser beams would be disrupted during this breakdown process. (TNG: "Datalore") The matter stream was briefly stored in a pattern buffer while the system compensates for Doppler shift to the destination.
The matter stream was then transmitted to its destination across a subspace domain. (TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II") As with any type of transmission of energy or radiation, scattering and degradation of the signal must be monitored closely. The annular confinement beam (ACB) acted to maintain the integrity of the information contained in the energy beam. Finally, the initial process was reversed and the object or individual was reassembled at the destination.
Not sure about you, but being broken down into a stream of subatomic particles certainly seems like disintegration. Conversion would mean that transported beings are somehow temporarily converted into energy and not broken down into subatomic particles.
Yes, that is exactly what it means. Why are you having so much trouble understanding this?
Because the various equipment related to the transporter disproves this. The biofilter that scans an incoming matter stream, the Heisenberg Compensators that monitor the position and momentum of subatomic particles, and the molecular imaging scanner all show that the transporter works on matter transmission and not energy transmission. There is a lot of references of a matter stream in Star Trek when referring to the transporter. If Star Trek's transporters worked by converting matter into energy, then they would use the 'energy stream' not 'matter stream'. The Realm of Fear episodes refers to the matter stream, molecular resolution, and molecular cohesion when talking about the transporter.
BARCLAY: I've always managed to avoid it somehow. You wouldn't believe how many hours that I've logged in shuttlecraft. I mean, The idea of being deconstructed, molecule by molecule. It's more than I can stand. Even when I was a child, I always had a dreadful fear that if ever I was dematerialised that I would never come back again whole. I know it sounds crazy, but
TROI: It's not crazy about it. You are being taken apart molecule by molecule. Reg, you're not the first person to have anxiety about transporting. We can desensitise you to this type of fear. It's a slow and gradual process, but it works.
DATA: The microbes exist simultaneously as both matter and energy. The biofilter cannot distinguish them from the matter stream.
LAFORGE: Right, but if we held Barclay suspended in mid-transport at the point where matter starts to lose molecular cohesion.
There is The Savage Curtain episode from TOS which states that energy-matter scramblers convert matter into energy and there is the Encounter at Farpoint episode with "If the transporters can convert our bodies to an energy beam" Therefore the easiest explanation is that the writers changed how the transporter works after Encounter at Farpoint since biofilter, Heisenberg Compensator, and molecular imaging scanner were introduced after Encounter at Farpoint. There is no need for a Heisenberg Compensator or use the term 'matter stream' if transporters converted matter into energy.
However, even if the transporter worked by converting matter into energy, then it still doesn't change the problem of being killed and a duplicate created at another location. The transporter doesn't temporarily evolve people into energy beings before bringing them back. If a person is converted into energy, then they cease to exist. It doesn't matter if the transmission is sent as energy, matter, or a bunch of 1s and 0s. Every time the transporter is used on a person, then that person ceases to exist for at least a few seconds.
Next, the lifeform or object to be beamed was scanned on the quantum level, using a molecular imaging scanner. At this point, Heisenberg compensators took into account the position and direction of all subatomic particles composing the object or individual and created a map of the physical structure being disassembled, amounting to billions of kiloquads of data.
Simultaneously, the object was broken down into a stream of subatomic particles, also called the matter stream. While certain types of energy could be transported safely, active phaser beams would be disrupted during this breakdown process. (TNG: "Datalore") The matter stream was briefly stored in a pattern buffer while the system compensates for Doppler shift to the destination.
The matter stream was then transmitted to its destination across a subspace domain. (TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II") As with any type of transmission of energy or radiation, scattering and degradation of the signal must be monitored closely. The annular confinement beam (ACB) acted to maintain the integrity of the information contained in the energy beam. Finally, the initial process was reversed and the object or individual was reassembled at the destination.
Not sure about you, but being broken down into a stream of subatomic particles certainly seems like disintegration. Conversion would mean that transported beings are somehow temporarily converted into energy and not broken down into subatomic particles.
Yes, that is exactly what it means. Why are you having so much trouble understanding this?
Because the various equipment related to the transporter disproves this. The biofilter that scans an incoming matter stream, the Heisenberg Compensators that monitor the position and momentum of subatomic particles, and the molecular imaging scanner all show that the transporter works on matter transmission and not energy transmission. There is a lot of references of a matter stream in Star Trek when referring to the transporter. If Star Trek's transporters worked by converting matter into energy, then they would use the 'energy stream' not 'matter stream'. The Realm of Fear episodes refers to the matter stream, molecular resolution, and molecular cohesion when talking about the transporter.
BARCLAY: I've always managed to avoid it somehow. You wouldn't believe how many hours that I've logged in shuttlecraft. I mean, The idea of being deconstructed, molecule by molecule. It's more than I can stand. Even when I was a child, I always had a dreadful fear that if ever I was dematerialised that I would never come back again whole. I know it sounds crazy, but
TROI: It's not crazy about it. You are being taken apart molecule by molecule. Reg, you're not the first person to have anxiety about transporting. We can desensitise you to this type of fear. It's a slow and gradual process, but it works.
DATA: The microbes exist simultaneously as both matter and energy. The biofilter cannot distinguish them from the matter stream.
LAFORGE: Right, but if we held Barclay suspended in mid-transport at the point where matter starts to lose molecular cohesion.
There is The Savage Curtain episode from TOS which states that energy-matter scramblers convert matter into energy and there is the Encounter at Farpoint episode with "If the transporters can convert our bodies to an energy beam" Therefore the easiest explanation is that the writers changed how the transporter works after Encounter at Farpoint since biofilter, Heisenberg Compensator, and molecular imaging scanner were introduced after Encounter at Farpoint. There is no need for a Heisenberg Compensator or use the term 'matter stream' if transporters converted matter into energy.
However, even if the transporter worked by converting matter into energy, then it still doesn't change the problem of being killed and a duplicate created at another location. The transporter doesn't temporarily evolve people into energy beings before bringing them back. If a person is converted into energy, then they cease to exist. It doesn't matter if the transmission is sent as energy, matter, or a bunch of 1s and 0s. Every time the transporter is used on a person, then that person ceases to exist for at least a few seconds.
Since we have never turned people from matter to energy and back, or had people that stopped temporarily existing and then came back, I think we cannot really make many assumptions on what happens to your "self". If by any measure possible, the person after the transport occurred still is the same person as the first one, we can probably assume that it is the same person.
Of course, even if there are possible measures that show a person to be different from the person she was before, we still often consider them the same. If we grow, get older, get injured, we still say the same, though there are clear differences.
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> @jonsills said: > On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.
No, see, Tuvix's separation fails a particular moral test called "consent". Neelix and Tuvok "died" in an accident, it was nobody's fault except perhaps the engineers who designed the transporter in question. But Tuvix? His "death" was due to an intentional act to which he did not agree. THAT is what makes it murder.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Next, the lifeform or object to be beamed was scanned on the quantum level, using a molecular imaging scanner. At this point, Heisenberg compensators took into account the position and direction of all subatomic particles composing the object or individual and created a map of the physical structure being disassembled, amounting to billions of kiloquads of data.
Simultaneously, the object was broken down into a stream of subatomic particles, also called the matter stream. While certain types of energy could be transported safely, active phaser beams would be disrupted during this breakdown process. (TNG: "Datalore") The matter stream was briefly stored in a pattern buffer while the system compensates for Doppler shift to the destination.
The matter stream was then transmitted to its destination across a subspace domain. (TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II") As with any type of transmission of energy or radiation, scattering and degradation of the signal must be monitored closely. The annular confinement beam (ACB) acted to maintain the integrity of the information contained in the energy beam. Finally, the initial process was reversed and the object or individual was reassembled at the destination.
Not sure about you, but being broken down into a stream of subatomic particles certainly seems like disintegration. Conversion would mean that transported beings are somehow temporarily converted into energy and not broken down into subatomic particles.
Yes, that is exactly what it means. Why are you having so much trouble understanding this?
Because the various equipment related to the transporter disproves this. The biofilter that scans an incoming matter stream, the Heisenberg Compensators that monitor the position and momentum of subatomic particles, and the molecular imaging scanner all show that the transporter works on matter transmission and not energy transmission. There is a lot of references of a matter stream in Star Trek when referring to the transporter. If Star Trek's transporters worked by converting matter into energy, then they would use the 'energy stream' not 'matter stream'. The Realm of Fear episodes refers to the matter stream, molecular resolution, and molecular cohesion when talking about the transporter.
BARCLAY: I've always managed to avoid it somehow. You wouldn't believe how many hours that I've logged in shuttlecraft. I mean, The idea of being deconstructed, molecule by molecule. It's more than I can stand. Even when I was a child, I always had a dreadful fear that if ever I was dematerialised that I would never come back again whole. I know it sounds crazy, but
TROI: It's not crazy about it. You are being taken apart molecule by molecule. Reg, you're not the first person to have anxiety about transporting. We can desensitise you to this type of fear. It's a slow and gradual process, but it works.
DATA: The microbes exist simultaneously as both matter and energy. The biofilter cannot distinguish them from the matter stream.
LAFORGE: Right, but if we held Barclay suspended in mid-transport at the point where matter starts to lose molecular cohesion.
There is The Savage Curtain episode from TOS which states that energy-matter scramblers convert matter into energy and there is the Encounter at Farpoint episode with "If the transporters can convert our bodies to an energy beam" Therefore the easiest explanation is that the writers changed how the transporter works after Encounter at Farpoint since biofilter, Heisenberg Compensator, and molecular imaging scanner were introduced after Encounter at Farpoint. There is no need for a Heisenberg Compensator or use the term 'matter stream' if transporters converted matter into energy.
However, even if the transporter worked by converting matter into energy, then it still doesn't change the problem of being killed and a duplicate created at another location. The transporter doesn't temporarily evolve people into energy beings before bringing them back. If a person is converted into energy, then they cease to exist. It doesn't matter if the transmission is sent as energy, matter, or a bunch of 1s and 0s. Every time the transporter is used on a person, then that person ceases to exist for at least a few seconds.
Since we have never turned people from matter to energy and back, or had people that stopped temporarily existing and then came back, I think we cannot really make many assumptions on what happens to your "self". If by any measure possible, the person after the transport occurred still is the same person as the first one, we can probably assume that it is the same person.
Of course, even if there are possible measures that show a person to be different from the person she was before, we still often consider them the same. If we grow, get older, get injured, we still say the same, though there are clear differences.
There have been people that stopped temporarily existing assuming that you believe that the bible is true with Lazarus and Jesus. Then there is the case of people that suffer through Near Death Experiences. Obviously, that is different from teleportation since only their consciousness stopped temporarily existing and not their body.
Until we can prove or disprove the existence of the soul, then it is only a philosophical dilemma. The whole problem with the transporter problem is that the duplicate is exactly identical to the original. Even if a person is killed every time a transporter is used, there is no way for the rest of the world to confirm if the original is dead and afterlife is not filled with duplicates. So until it is proved that the soul does or doesn't exist, then a person's willingness to use a transporter that converts them into a stream of subatomic particles or energy is based on their philosophy or religion. It all depends on how important the body is to one's existence.
But Star Trek is obviously not written in that way. The transporter is by all intends and purposes meant to transport one person from a to b, not make copies. That's the intention behind it and it was never suggested otherwise. Even if you derive a different functionality from events in a episode, it still was never meant to be this way.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The interesting thing with the transporter paradox is that people seem to fundamentally miss that we really don't have anything resembling it in real life, and the assumption "souls exist" doesn't help to make any determination either. Maybe if you copy a person in some process, they actually share a soul? And once they die in go to that afterlife, they actually remember that they were these two people at a time? Maybe the soul actually would connect them and they would act as person that controlled two bodies? Absent any physical evidence of souls and what they are, we can make up any story about them.
And if there aren't souls.. Well, we might be modified copy of a previous self that no longer exists all the time. We don't really know or understand it yet, except on our subjective perspective. But since our subjective experience lacks teleportation and copying, we can still only guess what these would mean.
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But Star Trek is obviously not written in that way. The transporter is by all intends and purposes meant to transport one person from a to b, not make copies. That's the intention behind it and it was never suggested otherwise. Even if you derive a different functionality from events in a episode, it still was never meant to be this way.
Well it did make a copy so if it happened once, then it can happen again accidentally or on purpose. It is just a matter of the writers forgetting that some particular feature is now canon. Just like how Star Trek Beyond forgot about Khan's transporter that would replace starships.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
But Star Trek is obviously not written in that way. The transporter is by all intends and purposes meant to transport one person from a to b, not make copies. That's the intention behind it and it was never suggested otherwise. Even if you derive a different functionality from events in a episode, it still was never meant to be this way.
Well it did make a copy so if it happened once, then it can happen again accidentally or on purpose. It is just a matter of the writers forgetting that some particular feature is now canon. Just like how Star Trek Beyond forgot about Khan's transporter that would replace starships.
They didn't forget anything. The technology for long-range beaming has existed in the franchise since at least TNG: the Ferengi and the Dominion both had it, but they both plainly still find a use for starships. Obviously there's technical limitations that make it impractical for large-scale use. Cargo capacity would be an obvious one, since the most it's ever been used for is to transport three people at once.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
That's why Scotty had to come up with a clever way to alter the transporter pattern buffer on the USS JENOLAN to hold his pattern for so many years in "RELICS".
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It doesn't disintegrate or recreate things, it converts a person from matter to energy and back again, a process during which the person being transported is "fully conscious" through the entire process, even when in the "disassembled" state.
Yes Riker was duplicated, but through a freak accident that would normally be impossible. Just like Voyager had all its matter duplicated as a result of passing through a Subspace divergence field. As for Kirk, he wasn't truly duplicated, which is why he was dying and had to be re-integrated in order to survive.
It's why you get Charles Barkley grabbing space worms while beaming around (you couldn't do that if you were obliterated then copied). Additionally, all those episodes where the transporter 'failed' would be awkward.
"Well, we tried to beam the captain up, but something stopped the transit process. Guess we need a new captain."
You call it converts a person from matter to energy while I call it disintegration. Vaporizing a person with a phaser until there is nothing left is converting a person from matter to energy. Only difference is that the transporter records your energy pattern while the phaser doesn't. Either way your original body is disassembled and a pattern is created. It is not as simple as changing a person into energy and then back into matter. The only teleportation that I liked was the folded space transporter in The High Ground episode from TNG. Sure it slowly kills you, but at least it doesn't kill you and creates an exact copy.
If a freak accident happened once, then it can happen again. It is just a matter of figuring out why it happened and duplicating the process. So if the transporter is capable of cloning an individual, then it can clone an army provided the right conditions are met. All that matters is the ethics of it.
I mean, I could say that the warp drive functions by putting all their yardsticks into cold water so they shrink and thus measure shorter distances between stars. I'd be wrong, but I could say that...
Being turned into energy is hazardous to almost everyone's health. The only times when it is not is some alien race evolving into some energy lifeform and Q having some fun.
If you want to experience the fun of teleportation by having your entire body dismantled into an energy pattern and have an identical copy appear in a different location, then go right ahead. I will wait for the alternative that doesn't require killing me.
The philosophical ramifications of teleportation depend on the philosophy a person believes in. A materialist would be perfectly happy with teleportation due to it doesn't matter if they exist as this bundle of particles or another bundle of particles that have exactly the same pattern as the previous bundle.
Any person that believes in the soul would have a problem with transportation due to what happens to the soul. If the body is just a container for the soul, then it doesn't matter where the body is since either the body will not work due to the soul being permanently separated from the body resulting in transporters being only useful for non-living items or the soul will always follow the body.
I love it how you completely ignored the part where its clearly established that people remain conscious through the entire process from beginning to end.
In TNG: Realm of Fear it is shown that people can even interact with objects while IN the matter stream, I.E while they are what you call "disintegrated".
It is the definite episode that proves beyond all doubt in-universe that a transporter is not a murder/clone machine.
But I bet that Starfleet implemented those alterations into their software for transporters after receiving Enterprise's mission-report from that event. Starfleet LIKES added safety-measures and redundancies.
That actually seems to vary quite a bit from writer to writer... Some writers/producers/directors were pretty bad about intentionally ignoring continuity. It was actually a mandated thing under different producers that they avoid mentioning stuff from previous episodes. The staff actually had to fight to get a follow up episode for Best of Both Worlds to let Picard deal with the emotional baggage of everything that happened.
Then there is just the "rule of cool" stuff where Starfleet apparently loads its consoles with fireworks and rocks to make those pretty looking explosions.
So the transporter temporarily converts people into energy beings? I have stated numerous times that the transporter disintegrates or dismantles people into an energy pattern. Whether that energy pattern is capable of thought and movement is not known. The perception of 'remaining conscious' could just be a hallucination created by the brain to deal with the process of disintegration and reintegration. Just like the light at the end of the tunnel for Near Death Experiences.
Realm of Fear is a freak accident. It is the only episode that had quasi-energy microbes which messed up how the transporter's energy patterns worked. Without quasi-energy microbes, the energy patterns are not stuck in transit. It is possible that the energy patterns were modified so that people were conscious of their time as an energy pattern. So there is no way to know if 99.999999% of the time, remaining conscious is merely a hallucination while 0.000001% of the time they are actually conscious within the energy pattern. Personally, I think that Barclay is the toy of some adolescent god similar to Q Jr due to all the weird experiences that he goes through.
To be fair, this particular detail is fairly minor. And having every detail from previous episodes incorporated was completely impossible for a weekly TV-show that had an episodic structure. First Contact was much more insulting to previous TNG-canon when it comes to that, especially considering that there have been several more Borg-episodes after Bobw, and Picard eventually got over his assimilation fairly well. But because of fan-service and because they felt like they wanted to make the TNG-movies more action-heavy they completely rewrote Picard's character and incorporated very stupid ideas like him being "banned" from fighting the Borg at Earth. Not to mention the Borg apparently being completely brainless now. Time-travelling Borg would be the most devastating thing ever, and there'd be no need for them to do that right in front of a federation-fleet.
Seriously. What kind of organized fleetcommand would ban a highly modern and well-armed ship from a priority-one home-defense? Even if Picard was banned they could have just confined him to quarter for the duration of the battle.
Aaaanyway.
The producers for Star Trek were most of the time the same. Gene Roddenberry passed the torch to Rick Berman at some point and aside from a majority of DS9 he was very much in control of the TV-productions (as well as the TNG-movies). Star Trek suffered from that, because on TNG he was still doing okay, but it was easier anyway as the foundation was established and they had good writers on their team. It also didn't help that when it came to the movies, Berman refused to employ actual movie-writers and resorted to his team of TV-writers. On Nemesis they changed that, but the writers they had were just some Spiner/Stewart-fanboys. For example, Picard going apesh*t driving a frikkin buggy is more like a Patrick-Stewart-thing than a Captain-Picard-thing, as driving is a hobby of Stewart.
Good writing results in episodes like Best of both worlds, where characters actually are written like they have brains and emotion.
Bad writing results in movies like Generations that lead to infinite facepalms over plot-conveniences and -holes.
I could say over and over that the Earth is flat, but it will persist in being an oblate spheroid despite me. I can say over and over and over that Jean-Luc Picard isn't in fact French, because the actor portraying him is obviously British, but the show says otherwise, and that takes precedence. And you can keep telling us that the transporter "disintegrates or dismantles people" - but this is stated to be untrue by the showrunners. They know, you don't.
The thing is, beaming is hogwash. Based on what physicists know it's nothing but pure fiction. Of course it'd be like one if not the most handy invention ever, but the cold numbers of physics put into words make it very clear that without miracles it'd be completely impossible.
For doing it the way Star Trek does it you'd need to completely dismantle matter on a subatomic level so nothing remains. Only a bit of heat, just roughly 10 billion degrees celsius (easy, right?) would be necessary to achieve this for a typical-sized adult.
The next problem would be to actually save the structure and relation of molecules and even the quantum-condition and rebuild that on a different location 1:1. Every little electron and its current state would be important.
And that's the short version.
Clone-jumping however, something like that might actually work eventually.
Transporters have been known to separate a person into their evil and good counterparts, turn adults into children, create a clone, cure a disease, and create a new body. Essentially, transporters does whatever the writers want it to. So if there is no coherent set of rules in the show to govern how the transporter works, then the showrunners, 'Word of God', and the folks who created the silly thing know how the transporter works as well as we do. According to the showrunners, 'Word of God', and the folks who created the silly thing, the transporter is just a cheap and interesting way of getting from point A to point B.
So how do you turn matter into an energy pattern without dismantling or disintegrating the matter? The simplest explanation of what a transporter is that transporters convert a person or object into an energy pattern (a process called dematerialization), then "beam" it to a target, where it is reconverted into matter (rematerialization). So for a few seconds, the entity known as jonsills is removed from existence when they are transported.
By using a powerful scanner, an energy pattern can be created without destroying the original body, but that is cloning. There is a short story and an Outer Limits episode called "Think Like a Dinosaur" where there is communication problems after a transporter is used and the original body survives until communications are restored a few days later and reveals that the transported body is just fine. The Transporter Officer has to kill the original body to 'balance the equation'. The only major difference between Star Trek transporters and other transporters work is that the original is kept alive until it is verified that the transporter worked properly.
Even if every atom is placed in its original place still doesn't change the fact that the original body ceases to exist. If you take a structure created out of lego, take it completely apart, and then build the exact same structure, it is not the original structure just something that looks like the original structure.
So as long as a ship has the crew member's energy pattern and the right equipment, then they can create as many crew members as they want, turn old and experienced officers into young and experienced officers, cure any disease or injury by restoring the crew member to a previous backup, and resurrect the dead. Transporters seem to much like a Deus Ex Machina technology.
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They have never been used as described.
Therefore, your idea of how they work is incorrect. Instead, I'll go with the official versions - conversion and transmission, not disintegration and replacement.
Not sure about you, but being broken down into a stream of subatomic particles certainly seems like disintegration. Conversion would mean that transported beings are somehow temporarily converted into energy and not broken down into subatomic particles.
The pattern buffer stored the signals as the buffer underwent a continous diagnostic scan to avoid degredation of the information stored in the buffer. Typically it takes a few minutes or few seconds of storage for a signal or a group of signals stored in buffer before it is all lost due to degredation, however the diagnostic scan made sure the patterns were not lost and neither did the signals degrade.
To accomplish it, certain systems were adjusted or removed; the transporters got power from the auxillary systems while the rematerialisation subroutines were disabled, so there is no way to rearrange the signals back into what they were before. Meanwhile the phase inducers were connected to the emitter array. Due to what some people on the series implied, phase inducers are probably some sort of mechanical component in the power systems of a starship while the array is some form of technology that works to project energy, they are usually found in transporters, tractor beams to shielding based technologies.
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Because the various equipment related to the transporter disproves this. The biofilter that scans an incoming matter stream, the Heisenberg Compensators that monitor the position and momentum of subatomic particles, and the molecular imaging scanner all show that the transporter works on matter transmission and not energy transmission. There is a lot of references of a matter stream in Star Trek when referring to the transporter. If Star Trek's transporters worked by converting matter into energy, then they would use the 'energy stream' not 'matter stream'. The Realm of Fear episodes refers to the matter stream, molecular resolution, and molecular cohesion when talking about the transporter.
There is The Savage Curtain episode from TOS which states that energy-matter scramblers convert matter into energy and there is the Encounter at Farpoint episode with "If the transporters can convert our bodies to an energy beam" Therefore the easiest explanation is that the writers changed how the transporter works after Encounter at Farpoint since biofilter, Heisenberg Compensator, and molecular imaging scanner were introduced after Encounter at Farpoint. There is no need for a Heisenberg Compensator or use the term 'matter stream' if transporters converted matter into energy.
However, even if the transporter worked by converting matter into energy, then it still doesn't change the problem of being killed and a duplicate created at another location. The transporter doesn't temporarily evolve people into energy beings before bringing them back. If a person is converted into energy, then they cease to exist. It doesn't matter if the transmission is sent as energy, matter, or a bunch of 1s and 0s. Every time the transporter is used on a person, then that person ceases to exist for at least a few seconds.
Since we have never turned people from matter to energy and back, or had people that stopped temporarily existing and then came back, I think we cannot really make many assumptions on what happens to your "self". If by any measure possible, the person after the transport occurred still is the same person as the first one, we can probably assume that it is the same person.
Of course, even if there are possible measures that show a person to be different from the person she was before, we still often consider them the same. If we grow, get older, get injured, we still say the same, though there are clear differences.
> On the third hand, leaving Tuvix in place still leaves Tuvok and Neelix dead. Sometimes you've gotta make a choice. Now, you can argue whether Janeway made the right choice, but either way somebody had to live at someone else's expense - no way around it here.
No, see, Tuvix's separation fails a particular moral test called "consent". Neelix and Tuvok "died" in an accident, it was nobody's fault except perhaps the engineers who designed the transporter in question. But Tuvix? His "death" was due to an intentional act to which he did not agree. THAT is what makes it murder.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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There have been people that stopped temporarily existing assuming that you believe that the bible is true with Lazarus and Jesus. Then there is the case of people that suffer through Near Death Experiences. Obviously, that is different from teleportation since only their consciousness stopped temporarily existing and not their body.
Until we can prove or disprove the existence of the soul, then it is only a philosophical dilemma. The whole problem with the transporter problem is that the duplicate is exactly identical to the original. Even if a person is killed every time a transporter is used, there is no way for the rest of the world to confirm if the original is dead and afterlife is not filled with duplicates. So until it is proved that the soul does or doesn't exist, then a person's willingness to use a transporter that converts them into a stream of subatomic particles or energy is based on their philosophy or religion. It all depends on how important the body is to one's existence.
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And if there aren't souls.. Well, we might be modified copy of a previous self that no longer exists all the time. We don't really know or understand it yet, except on our subjective perspective. But since our subjective experience lacks teleportation and copying, we can still only guess what these would mean.
Well it did make a copy so if it happened once, then it can happen again accidentally or on purpose. It is just a matter of the writers forgetting that some particular feature is now canon. Just like how Star Trek Beyond forgot about Khan's transporter that would replace starships.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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They didn't forget anything. The technology for long-range beaming has existed in the franchise since at least TNG: the Ferengi and the Dominion both had it, but they both plainly still find a use for starships. Obviously there's technical limitations that make it impractical for large-scale use. Cargo capacity would be an obvious one, since the most it's ever been used for is to transport three people at once.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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