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JJ's back for JJ Wars Episode 9 ...

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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Not sure what this means yet, Abrams did some real good through the stuff he has done. It doesn't seem like Abrams style to rehash something, he usually goes out of his way to do something different or find a different look on it.

    Really? Most everything he's done from what I've seen is a rehash of something previous. I really haven't seen anything of his that I would call "original".

    Why does this have to get into a debate when you could research up yourself what Abrams has done? He has been co-creator of series from Fringe to Lost, all the way to Cloverfield and the recent Force Awakens.

    Please make your own judgements, but from what i have seen there were a few standouts, Lost was one of the big ones, he was apart of a team of people who created this series and turned it into something cool to watch as the survivors of an airline crash end up fighting for their lives while advancing their storylines.
    Alias was about a woman who was recruited by shady people and works with spies to uncover a whole lot of bad while digging up history about her father between other things. Fringe
    Fringe while it is a crime fighting team, however the use of fantasy means of resolving a case like syncing up peoples minds to each other or download data from a persons brain and even more.

    all three had one thing in common, they were not like CSI or NCIS with a straight investgative approach and the use of firearms. All three were about something a different.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Still doesn't explain Rey being OP as hell.

    Wasn't Rey thrown against a tree and knocked unconcious and Finn had to protect her from Ren while she recovered?
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    He also did Person of Interest with the Nolan brothers, an extremely topical near-future sci-fi action-thriller.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    Yeah... it hasn't officially been confirmed yet, but a Death Star is clearly visible on the packaging art for Kylo Ren's custom star fighter. Of course that is only the beginning of the oversized equipment that the First Order has up its sleeves for Ep 8.

    For the First Order allegedly being resource starved compared to the Old Empire they actually seem to be better equipped. Of course part of that seems to be JJ's philosophy that bigger is always better, like how he upsized the ships in his Star Trek films. It kind of makes you wonder if he is compensating for something... >:)
    It's an in-universe thing called the Tarkin doctrine. The idea was to make their weapons huge so as to cause maximum fear. Killing people is fine and all but you can't sue the dead for slave labor. You need to intimidate the living into servitude.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    starswordc wrote: »
    He also did Person of Interest with the Nolan brothers, an extremely topical near-future sci-fi action-thriller.

    I don't think he was personally much involved with it (and technically, only one of the Nolan brother's was working on POI, I think), but he has influence and I think he can recognize talent and good ideas and supports them when they come his way.

    I am not a big fan of Force Awakens or the Kelvin Timeline movies, but I think he has overall been a pretty good influence in Hollywood. (Heck, if he'd literally and not just figuratively in the minds of some hard core fans would ruin both Star trek and Star Wars, I#d still forgive him because he was, however remote, part of Person of Interest. ST and SW will recover from anything, I think, but missing POI entirely?)
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Still doesn't explain Rey being OP as hell.

    Wasn't Rey thrown against a tree and knocked unconcious and Finn had to protect her from Ren while she recovered?

    While she had been... how do you explain an UNTRAINED Force User overpowering a TRAINED Force User's grip and being able to Mind Trick a Stormtrooper?
    When Luke was just starting out he struggled to extract his lightsaber from where a Wampa jammed it into some ice, and struggled to extract his X-Wing from a swamp. Yoda even chastized him for lack of control! Now we have Rey, who DIDN'T have an Obi-Wan or Yoda to even get her started, and she's already mind tricking Stormtroopers and pulling lightsabers out of the grips of others!
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
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  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Still doesn't explain Rey being OP as hell.

    Wasn't Rey thrown against a tree and knocked unconcious and Finn had to protect her from Ren while she recovered?

    While she had been... how do you explain an UNTRAINED Force User overpowering a TRAINED Force User's grip and being able to Mind Trick a Stormtrooper?
    When Luke was just starting out he struggled to extract his lightsaber from where a Wampa jammed it into some ice, and struggled to extract his X-Wing from a swamp. Yoda even chastized him for lack of control! Now we have Rey, who DIDN'T have an Obi-Wan or Yoda to even get her started, and she's already mind tricking Stormtroopers and pulling lightsabers out of the grips of others!

    implying ben solo was trained force user... which I'm pretty sure is like saying the 14 years who took a few classes at the local community center is a trained boxer. and since when is mind tricking a stormtrooper been worth speaking of, in this case a poor man's stormtrooper who already had his will broken. and isn't one of the big things with jedi letting go of you let go your conscious self and acting on instinct?

    nothing rey has done is really at that crazy. compared to say destroying a force ghost of an anicent sith lord or throwing a fleet of star destroyers across a system. or really most of the things untrained but powerful froce users seem to do with annoying frequency.

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Rey's feats of strength are not the great, the heaviest thing she ever moved with the Force was a light sabre, and it took her several tries to pull of the mind trick.

    Also... it's been hinted that those who are Force sensitive don't necessarily need formal training to learn to use it. Also let's not forget that Maz Kanata explained to Rey the basics of how to use the Force.
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Ben's hardly a Sith Master. It's not so much Rey being overpowered but Ben being underpowered.

    The mind trick is perfectly reasonable to think about using, and they've been show to work on almost everybody (excluding Jabba and Cad Bane) so that's not OP.

    And Ben's clearly not a centre of emotional stability is he. Using the force takes balance and concentration (even for Dark Side users) and Ben had just spent time pumping himself full of adrenaline and hate. Not a great mindset for concentration.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
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  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    artan42 wrote: »
    Ben's hardly a Sith Master. It's not so much Rey being overpowered but Ben being underpowered.

    The mind trick is perfectly reasonable to think about using, and they've been show to work on almost everybody (excluding Jabba and Cad Bane) so that's not OP.

    And Ben's clearly not a centre of emotional stability is he. Using the force takes balance and concentration (even for Dark Side users) and Ben had just spent time pumping himself full of adrenaline and hate. Not a great mindset for concentration.​​

    Lest we forget, Luke deflected blaster fire with a lightsaber, and destroyed the Death Star, just by having a old man tell him to "stretch out with your feelings" and "act on instinct." By the time of the Battle of Hoth, Luke even had the ability to force-grab items from short-range, out-of-reach distances... but still, without being properly trained in the Force.

    Oh, yeah, and Rey's story is still unfolding, so other explanations on top of this can easily explain her perceived "OP-ness."
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Still doesn't explain Rey being OP as hell.

    Wasn't Rey thrown against a tree and knocked unconcious and Finn had to protect her from Ren while she recovered?

    While she had been... how do you explain an UNTRAINED Force User overpowering a TRAINED Force User's grip and being able to Mind Trick a Stormtrooper?
    When Luke was just starting out he struggled to extract his lightsaber from where a Wampa jammed it into some ice, and struggled to extract his X-Wing from a swamp. Yoda even chastized him for lack of control! Now we have Rey, who DIDN'T have an Obi-Wan or Yoda to even get her started, and she's already mind tricking Stormtroopers and pulling lightsabers out of the grips of others!

    how do you explain a platoon of furry, spear-wielding teddy bears overpowering an entire LEGION of the emperor's elite guard?​​
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    I don't mind Rey so much, I'm pretty sure she was trained in childhood and had her memories supressed. I'm not a fan of minorities working for the Empire, as the "white male human supremacist" angle went well with the N@zi / fascist analogue the Empire always symbolized. The good guy Rebels should be diverse, the evil Empire an enforced monoculture. But I digress.

    The First Order is a Na.zi analogue, the Empire is just an Empire. It's designed to be dictatorial (something to rebel against) not oppressive. Lucas didn't use the Naz.is as inspiration (well, apart from uniforms) though he did use the Third Reich along with the British and Roman Empires as the basis for the Empire.


    And why are you using the word 'minorities' to mean 'non-white'? Non-white people outnumber white people by a significant margin. Using 'minorities' to mean 'non-white' only works when referring to a country or region, not people.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • highlord83highlord83 Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Typical JJ IS SCI-FI HERPES screaming

    Good. I'm glad to see him back, and look forward to what gets put together under his lead. I enjoyed his take on Star Trek and love Force Awakens, so he's got a high bar to clear.
    artan42 wrote: »
    Ben's hardly a Sith Master. It's not so much Rey being overpowered but Ben being underpowered.

    The mind trick is perfectly reasonable to think about using, and they've been show to work on almost everybody (excluding Jabba and Cad Bane) so that's not OP.

    And Ben's clearly not a centre of emotional stability is he. Using the force takes balance and concentration (even for Dark Side users) and Ben had just spent time pumping himself full of adrenaline and hate. Not a great mindset for concentration.​​

    He'd also just been gutshot with a light anti-material weapon. People bitching about Rey being an OP mary sue forget everything that Luke pulled off in Star Wars.
    "So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
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  • highlord83highlord83 Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    double post
    "So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
    -Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
  • lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    Everything Luke pulled off? He ran around like a child having to be saved at practically every turn in "A New Hope", it wasn't until the very end that he triumphed and even then he needed Han to come rescue him from Vader. Luke's successes in the Original Trilogy were slowly built up on top of a foundation of failures. He had to work and overcome his own weakness to become the hero everyone remembers.

    In contrast Rey's first outing establishes her as a better mechanic than Chewbacca, a better pilot than Han, and a better fighter than Luke. Everyone she meets is instantly drawn to her, to the point that Leia ignores her long time friend Chewbacca and goes to a total stranger in Rey for support on Han's death. The real problem here is that Rey is only at the beginning of her journey and can only get more powerful from here.


    Episode 7 definitely suffered from a disconnect in how it was presented. In the opening crawl we are told that the Rebels won and the Empire was defeated, but once the actual action starts it appears as if nothing has changed since the end of Return of the Jedi. The Empire and Rebellion might have changed their names, but the status quo between them still remains. It ultimately rendered everything that happened in the original trilogy irrelevant.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Still doesn't explain Rey being OP as hell.

    Wasn't Rey thrown against a tree and knocked unconcious and Finn had to protect her from Ren while she recovered?

    While she had been... how do you explain an UNTRAINED Force User overpowering a TRAINED Force User's grip and being able to Mind Trick a Stormtrooper?
    When Luke was just starting out he struggled to extract his lightsaber from where a Wampa jammed it into some ice, and struggled to extract his X-Wing from a swamp. Yoda even chastized him for lack of control! Now we have Rey, who DIDN'T have an Obi-Wan or Yoda to even get her started, and she's already mind tricking Stormtroopers and pulling lightsabers out of the grips of others!

    What really bothered me about that scene is Kylo Ren had to move his head to avoid being hit by the lightsaber as it went past him, couldn't be have simply caught it with his hand?
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    yeah, let's try to catch a blade made of pure plasma that can slice through flesh and bone like a superheated cosmic knife through butter...​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    yeah, let's try to catch a blade made of pure plasma that can slice through flesh and bone like a superheated cosmic knife through butter...​​

    It was not ignited ...
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    Everything Luke pulled off? He ran around like a child having to be saved at practically every turn in "A New Hope", it wasn't until the very end that he triumphed and even then he needed Han to come rescue him from Vader. Luke's successes in the Original Trilogy were slowly built up on top of a foundation of failures. He had to work and overcome his own weakness to become the hero everyone remembers.

    In contrast Rey's first outing establishes her as a better mechanic than Chewbacca, a better pilot than Han, and a better fighter than Luke. Everyone she meets is instantly drawn to her, to the point that Leia ignores her long time friend Chewbacca and goes to a total stranger in Rey for support on Han's death. The real problem here is that Rey is only at the beginning of her journey and can only get more powerful from here.


    Episode 7 definitely suffered from a disconnect in how it was presented. In the opening crawl we are told that the Rebels won and the Empire was defeated, but once the actual action starts it appears as if nothing has changed since the end of Return of the Jedi. The Empire and Rebellion might have changed their names, but the status quo between them still remains. It ultimately rendered everything that happened in the original trilogy irrelevant.

    This seems appropriate:
    Cracked wrote:
    5. Undoing the Ending of Return of the Jedi
    4518.jpg?v=1

    As Seen In: The Thrawn Trilogy, X-Wing Series, Jedi Academy Trilogy and many more novels, comics and video games.

    Everything had wrapped up nicely at the end of Return of the Jedi. We see the Imperial menace defeated over the forest moon of Endor by the likes of Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, Han Solo, Chewbacca the Wookiee and Lando "The Last Black Man in the Galaxy" Calrissian.
    4521.jpg?v=1
    He's a collector's item.

    The Emperor's plan to recruit Luke to the dark side failed, and Darth Vader redeemed himself by dunking the raisin-faced TRIBBLE into the reactor core of the Death Star like Lebron James. Vader, electrocuted and hairless--and decidedly not James Earl Jones--died and the Death Star exploded, effectively wiping out the Sith, releasing their chokehold on the Galaxy and infuriating whoever was the lienholder on the destroyed battle station.
    4515.jpg?v=1
    "Bank of America is going to be pissed."

    ↓Continue Reading Below
    Simultaneous celebrations were held on countless planets because evidently news travels fast through the infinite expanse of TRIBBLE space. Our heroes dance with some teddy bears and the credits roll.

    Not So Fast...

    In the unofficial "sequel" stories, this happens:
    4520.jpg?v=1


    That is, the Empire keeps rolling right along, imposing space-tyranny on all who stand in their way.

    And the thing is, it's hard to argue with the idea.

    Neither the Emperor nor the Death Star had ever been a threat to the Rebellion, so, you know, TRIBBLE those first three movies. The Imperials had been able to control the Galaxy without a Death Star for a couple of decades, relying instead on fleet warfare and ground support for good old fashioned genocide. As for the Emperor, does killing the leader of a tyrannical government with a powerful and loyal army immediately end the entire conflict?
    4524.jpg?v=1
    No.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Never understood Star Wars. From the all the trailers over the years, it looks like a medieval space knight thingy.

    ( No, I won't watch one, I suffered through a Ewok cartoon in the ninety's. )

    Nothing really medieval about it other than the Jedi and Sith favoring energy swords as their primary weapon. For the OT, take a WWII movie, add in some western and gangster scenes, and a bit of space magic, and you have a general idea of what it's like.

    The PT is more about politics, the outbreak of war in a Galaxy that's seen peace for so long there is no longer a standing military, and an elusive enemy that's manipulating all sides in an effort to gain ultimate power. It also has the single most poorly written romance I have ever watched, and one of the most important characters is played by a guy who can't act worth a damn. Oh and a character who is consistently shown to be strong and independent literally dies because they are too sad about how things turn out in the end. Not suicide, they just get sad and die.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    In contrast Rey's first outing establishes her as a better mechanic than Chewbacca, a better pilot than Han, and a better fighter than Luke. Everyone she meets is instantly drawn to her, to the point that Leia ignores her long time friend Chewbacca and goes to a total stranger in Rey for support on Han's death. The real problem here is that Rey is only at the beginning of her journey and can only get more powerful from here.

    Rey being a better mechanic can be explained away by what she had been doing on Jakku to survive. She was a scavenger who traded parts from things like Star Destroyer wrecks for food. Doing that for years means you get at least a passing knowledge of what things do. I mean the first time we see her she's taking parts out of an ISD. Pilot, on the other hand... that one I can't give a good explanation on. She's decent with that speeder bike, but flying an old YT-1300 that's been modded?

    And yea... I also agree that it almost felt like a hybrid sequel/reboot.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • trygvar13trygvar13 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    Not sure what this means yet, Abrams did some real good through the stuff he has done. It doesn't seem like Abrams style to rehash something, he usually goes out of his way to do something different or find a different look on it.

    Really? Into Darkness was a cheap attempt at Wrath of Khan. The Force Awakens a cheap attempt at A New Hope. Cloverfield a cheap attempt at Godzilla. Super 8 a cheap attempt at ET...
    Dahar Master Qor'aS
  • trygvar13trygvar13 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    mhall85 wrote: »
    Some real hyperbolic conclusion-jumping going on in here...

    If recent news is any indication, the STORY GROUP (and, ultimately, Kathleen Kennedy) run the Star Wars universe. Not Abrams. Not Rian Johnson. Not any other director or writer. If Lucasfilm doesn't like the script, they'll pull it. If they don't like the director, they'll fire him/her. Abrams is one to play ball with Lucasfilm, while still giving us (at least) a good movie.

    The JJ-Hate is strong in here!

    Yes it is. After what he did to Star Trek how can you blame us? :(
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  • trygvar13trygvar13 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    mhall85 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Not sure what this means yet, Abrams did some real good through the stuff he has done. It doesn't seem like Abrams style to rehash something, he usually goes out of his way to do something different or find a different look on it.

    A lot of parallels can be drawn between ANH and TFA.
    • Evil faction has a planetkiller
    • Hero came from a desert planet
    • Hero gets a mentor
    • Hero gets Anakin's Lightsaber
    • Mentor dies
    • An X-Wing kills the Planetkiller before it can destroy the base (Even a very brief Trench Run)

    While TFA was a decent movie, if someone has seen the original Star Wars you can see the similarities in particular plot points between the two. The main issues I have with TFA is...
    • Rey is OP as hell.
    • Starkiller Base is a frickin' two shot Death Star on sterroids.

    Point 1, we have to consider Rey's personality. She wasn't interested in the Force, and basically ran from it when confronted via Anakin's lightsaber. She had NO training whatsoever. And she was able to not only do a Mind Trick on a Stormtrooper, but pull the Skywalker Lightsaber out of Kylo Ren's Force Grip and proceed to fight him in a lightsaber duel. And Kylo IS a trained Force User.
    Point 2: Starkiller Base used the local star as fuel for its main gun. There is no indication that it can move. It is literally a two shot throwaway weapon as without a star, any plant life on the surface would eventually die, and the habitable parts of the planet will become unihabitable.

    Sharing story beats is one thing... even major plot points... but TFA is not a complete rehash of ANH. Some of those story beats, while admittedly similar, do not EXACTLY copy the parallel scene/theme/device from ANH. I wouldn't say that Han fulfilled the same role as Obi-Wan (Kenobi was more mentor/teacher/sage, while Han was more of a father-type). ANH doesn't have an Imperial defector actively leave to join the rebellion. Rey is also not the one to make the "trench run" in TFA. In fact, her capture & rescue makes her a mishmash of Luke & Leia.

    And, all of that said, NONE of that proves one way or another that Abrams was solely responsible for these decisions, nor does it prove one way or another that (if he DID make it happen in TFA) he'll do it in Episode IX.

    I don't know if Episode IX will be good, or will end this trilogy well. None of us know that. I'm pretty confident, though, that the film will LOOK fantastic. Further, Abrams does seem to excel at character moments, so I also think that he'll handle any sort of Carrie Fisher tribute very well.

    Anything else, in terms of judgement, is premature at best.

    TFA is actually a rehash of A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Ice planet, Han falling down the shaft, from Empire. Imperial defector, taking down the shield from Return of the Jedi...
    Dahar Master Qor'aS
  • trygvar13trygvar13 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    mhall85 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Not sure what this means yet, Abrams did some real good through the stuff he has done. It doesn't seem like Abrams style to rehash something, he usually goes out of his way to do something different or find a different look on it.

    A lot of parallels can be drawn between ANH and TFA.
    • Evil faction has a planetkiller
    • Hero came from a desert planet
    • Hero gets a mentor
    • Hero gets Anakin's Lightsaber
    • Mentor dies
    • An X-Wing kills the Planetkiller before it can destroy the base (Even a very brief Trench Run)

    While TFA was a decent movie, if someone has seen the original Star Wars you can see the similarities in particular plot points between the two. The main issues I have with TFA is...
    • Rey is OP as hell.
    • Starkiller Base is a frickin' two shot Death Star on sterroids.

    Point 1, we have to consider Rey's personality. She wasn't interested in the Force, and basically ran from it when confronted via Anakin's lightsaber. She had NO training whatsoever. And she was able to not only do a Mind Trick on a Stormtrooper, but pull the Skywalker Lightsaber out of Kylo Ren's Force Grip and proceed to fight him in a lightsaber duel. And Kylo IS a trained Force User.
    Point 2: Starkiller Base used the local star as fuel for its main gun. There is no indication that it can move. It is literally a two shot throwaway weapon as without a star, any plant life on the surface would eventually die, and the habitable parts of the planet will become unihabitable.

    Sharing story beats is one thing... even major plot points... but TFA is not a complete rehash of ANH. Some of those story beats, while admittedly similar, do not EXACTLY copy the parallel scene/theme/device from ANH. I wouldn't say that Han fulfilled the same role as Obi-Wan (Kenobi was more mentor/teacher/sage, while Han was more of a father-type). ANH doesn't have an Imperial defector actively leave to join the rebellion. Rey is also not the one to make the "trench run" in TFA. In fact, her capture & rescue makes her a mishmash of Luke & Leia.

    And, all of that said, NONE of that proves one way or another that Abrams was solely responsible for these decisions, nor does it prove one way or another that (if he DID make it happen in TFA) he'll do it in Episode IX.

    I don't know if Episode IX will be good, or will end this trilogy well. None of us know that. I'm pretty confident, though, that the film will LOOK fantastic. Further, Abrams does seem to excel at character moments, so I also think that he'll handle any sort of Carrie Fisher tribute very well.

    Anything else, in terms of judgement, is premature at best.

    The worst thing about TFA was the pacing. Except for the final scene John Williams' music could never properly take flight. It was going way too fast. A theme like The Imperial March or Approaching the Death Star could never be used. It kept jumping from one scene to the other. From I heard Rian's approach was quite different and I'm hoping we will get to hear the potential of John Williams' genius.
    Dahar Master Qor'aS
  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    So, I just watched a YouTube video (no spoilers) about a SlashFilm report about some early screenings of The Last Jedi.

    The consensus seems to be that it is VERY different from the rest of the saga films, to the point that it will be divisive among fans.

    This intrigues me, as Star Wars fans (like Trek fans) don't seem to handle change well. This is also what gives me hope about Abrams and Episode IX. Without knowing what happens in The Last Jedi, should the film alter the status quo to such a controversial degree? Beyond the fact that I don't think he'll WANT to, I don't think it will be POSSIBLE for Abrams to successfully "rehash" Return of the Jedi. ROTJ has three main beats: rescue of one of the main characters from imprisonment on a desert world, befriending furry creatures on a forrest world to destroy a major superweapon, and defeat the "evil" while also redeeming the once-thought-villian.

    That's pretty paint-by-numbers, in terms of plot... but I can only see one of those beats being repurposed... MAYBE.
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