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THE TRIBBLE SPACE CHANGES FEEDBACK THREAD!

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    pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,177 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    lucho80 wrote: »
    science had PLENTY of offense at the start of the game - until it got nerfed into the dirt, along with every other part of science except healing​​

    We poor science captains have to always suffer because of the faulty logic of:

    IF kill doesn't come from weapon DPS THEN nerf it to oblivion



    From ENERGY weapons thank you very much. Torps and mines have been in the same boat as sci for a long while now.
    You can say that again about mines. I never understood why almost all the special mines are worse than basic mines.
    Between the extra range and defence boost my mines layer builds are in the best state they have been in for years. But I am still finding the special mines perform worse than basic mines.

    My normal Quantum mine launcher is 7468 damage x4
    Quantum Modulating Competition Mine launcher is 5227.8 x4 (with an extra DMG mod over the normal mine)
    Tethered Quantum Mine launcher is 7,468.2 x2 !!!!

    Slotting in a Modulating Competition Mine or Tethered Quantum Mine over a normal mine launcher gives me a large drop in DPS output.

    Apart from the special mines I am very happy with the mine changes. Mines are in a great state right now. Destructible torpedoes and mines are far better now I can keep them alive with all the changes.

    My only other request would be photons and Quantum still have hidden stats.

    •Photon Mines have increased stealth value from 4825 to 4875 which is not listed.

    •Quantum Mines have increased flight speed from 25 to 45, increased explosion triggering distance from 0.4km to 0.7km and increased explosion radius on Detonation from 1.0km to 1.5km which is not listed.

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    lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    \
    Tethered Quantum Mine launcher is 7,468.2 x2 !!!!

    Saddest part, that one costs lobi AND it and the long range tetryon cannon from the same set don't get a mod when upgrading from rare to VR,
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    casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    casualsto wrote: »
    1. I'd like to address the effort made by the development to make this game a new leveled field for most of the players. It is a great initiative and I'd like to thank you for your time, work and effort.
    2. I'm also aware that you got around two weeks roughly (actually one development week and one polishing week) and I know the difference between game design and game content modifications.
    3. I wish to offer you some issues that from my subjective perspective could be adressed in order to preserve some usability without conflicting with the actual balance design changes.

    The issues I'd like to address are mostly PvE related, but also have an impact in PvP to certain extent.

    -Plasma proc-based embassy consoles
    -Feedback Pulse
    -Something for the Science's removal of the Deflector Overcharge.


    Plasma proc consoles could still be viable for science related builds.
    ->Scale Shield Penetration based on Drain Expertise (To help the Sci be on par with the Tac in some situations)
    ->Scale the proc plasma damage on EPG (To help their utility without having the overpowering Shield Penetration unless being Sci-focused)
    ->Scale the Threat Generation based on CtrlX (Making them really useful for a Sci build, in synergy with control and lowered Threat generation - in antithesis with Tac and Engi threat spikes)

    Feedback Pulse could still throw down some damage back to attackers, only if the player is a tank-related build
    ->Scaling the damage split on multiple Engineering and Science instead of just being a exotic-related boost. (Using Shield Emitters, Hull Healing, Shield Capacity, Hull Capacity, Shield Regeneration and Hull Regeneration)
    ->Limiting the damage returned to 120% and allowing it to crit with the Particle Manipulation (Only in PvE if possible)
    ->Limiting the damage returned to 75% and 25% only shield penetration vs Players. (Let's face facts, just reflecting shouldn't insta-kill you)

    Deflector Overcharge's compensation after its removal for Science
    ->Cause the Photonic Capacitor to offer an increased bonus to EPG, DrainX and CtrlX for each photonic ship alive( for example +50 to all three per photonic ship)
    ->This centers around a basic skill without allowing some decloak-burst damage with Sci abilities
    ->The ships are killable, therefore the buff depends and is synergic with survivability and threat generation/threat split - If you're overwhelmed, it's no longer working.
    ->This keeps the Tac toons also viable for exotic builds, but not as good as a skilled Sci could manage, exotic damage related.

    I'm totally aware that it's a late idea, but if it helps or it is implementable, I drop any "intelectual rights or property regarding the ideas suggested here". This is solely a suggestion (free suggestion) for the improvement of the gameplay experience and upon implementation, it belongs to the design/development team.


    Thank you for reading, Borticus and keep up the good works. We appreciate your work.


    Tweaking. Any opinions from the Design/development team? From end-users? Good/Bad?
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I'd like to say that "Boarding Party" still needs some added funtionality. It is nice that the shuttles now turn and directly aim at the target, but as before when the target gets destroyed the shuttle just sits there. It should, like a targetable torpedo, look for a new target OR return to the mother ship and reduce the abilities' cooldown for every shuttle that returns safely. Also, there should be a way to improve the shuttles defence rating as they aren't - and shouldn't - good at taking hits. They should however be able to evade enemy fire better, maybe add DOFFs that synergize with other abilities.

    It is hard to justify the high cooldown on "Boarding Party" when enemys don't have crew any more and the subsystem disable triggers a immunity essentially meaning only one shuttle can disable a subsystem and then lose this effect for the remainder of the duration, effectively only leaving the ability cooldown reduction which doesn't apply to NPCs in the first place..​​​
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    breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    Just a thought: Why not remove the energy weapon category restriction, making Fire at Will, Overload, Rapid Fire, and Scatter Volley work on all energy weapons like Surgical Strikes does? Doing that would mean we wouldn't need to tinker with Beam: Overload's mechanics directly, instead simply using beams and Rapid Fire, and could work on more accurately balancing the others against their seat level. That wouldn't address the loss of +DBB setups, but we're losing them anyway with these changes.
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    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
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    asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I'd like to say that "Boarding Party" still needs some added funtionality. It is nice that the shuttles now turn and directly aim at the target, but as before when the target gets destroyed the shuttle just sits there. It should, like a targetable torpedo, look for a new target OR return to the mother ship and reduce the abilities' cooldown for every shuttle that returns safely. Also, there should be a way to improve the shuttles defence rating as they aren't - and shouldn't - good at taking hits. They should however be able to evade enemy fire better, maybe add DOFFs that synergize with other abilities.

    It is hard to justify the high cooldown on "Boarding Party" when enemys don't have crew any more and the subsystem disable triggers a immunity essentially meaning only one shuttle can disable a subsystem and then lose this effect for the remainder of the duration, effectively only leaving the ability cooldown reduction which doesn't apply to NPCs in the first place..​​​

    I could see them giving a boost to defense rating of the shuttles via what your aux power is, which would would be nice. Issue with such a bonus being tied to a doff slot is how effective an appealing would it be to use over other doffs. Now a doff that gives boarding party a chance to not trigger the sub-system immunity that might be worth slotting, yet alot of the doffs for boarding party could use some looking at.

    Also though i do think that they could use a innate defense/evade mechanic for both the boarding party, and also for the smaller hanger pets. Since honestly both the fighter class, as well as the shuttle class of hanger-pets for their size would be quite nimble an harder to hit. Thus such a change would give them a quite good deal of improved survivability.

    I honestly would say that the doff system could use a going over, maybe not a full on revamp, but a cleaning that could be used to both lear out underperforming/useless doffs, while also allowing them to see how they could improve the doff system. Things like doffs that could be used for giving your hanger/seperation pets a portion of the bonuses gained from your main-ship's consoles.
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    sleeeperr1sleeeperr1 Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    the buff to tyken's rift is too strong , fix it .... at higher levels of drainx it becomes uncounterable and OVERPOWERED takes 300 drainx to achieve what 600 does on holodeck . where is the rebalance in that ?
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    A thought regarding torpedo buffs occured to me:

    Torpedoes are now the only weapon that has a single launcher type buff. I can deal with it (though I wouldn't mind having an all-torpedo buff in the game, too).

    But when balancing them, it's important to realize that they are not like Cannon Rapid Fire or Beam Fire At Will, which get stronger the more weapons of that type you have.

    They are more similar to a power like Gravity Well or Subspace Vortex, except to use them, you need to install a torpedo launcher. That means the power of a Torpedo Spread or High Yield Torpedo needs to be a bit more for one torpedo than BFAW or CRF etc are for a single beam or cannon.
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    hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    The Rift damage is way to high
    sleeeperr1 wrote: »
    the buff to tyken's rift is too strong , fix it .... at higher levels of drainx it becomes uncounterable and OVERPOWERED takes 300 drainx to achieve what 600 does on holodeck . where is the rebalance in that ?

    Its not OP
    I assume you are talking about in pvp.

    "Uncounterable" huh, I can think of a fews ways to get out of my rift.
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
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    odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    hajmyis wrote: »
    The Rift damage is way to high
    sleeeperr1 wrote: »
    the buff to tyken's rift is too strong , fix it .... at higher levels of drainx it becomes uncounterable and OVERPOWERED takes 300 drainx to achieve what 600 does on holodeck . where is the rebalance in that ?

    Its not OP
    I assume you are talking about in pvp.

    "Uncounterable" huh, I can think of a fews ways to get out of my rift.

    Yea I would agree.. There are several ways to get away from a rift..Especially if you move fast..Or teleport.

    Isnt Hazard Emitters a counter now(Or has it always been)?As it is a Hazard..There is also that one trait..

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    sleeeperr1sleeeperr1 Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    hajmyis wrote: »
    The Rift damage is way to high
    sleeeperr1 wrote: »
    the buff to tyken's rift is too strong , fix it .... at higher levels of drainx it becomes uncounterable and OVERPOWERED takes 300 drainx to achieve what 600 does on holodeck . where is the rebalance in that ?

    Its not OP
    I assume you are talking about in pvp.

    "Uncounterable" huh, I can think of a fews ways to get out of my rift.

    Yea I would agree.. There are several ways to get away from a rift..Especially if you move fast..Or teleport.

    Isnt Hazard Emitters a counter now(Or has it always been)?As it is a Hazard..There is also that one trait..
    I'm getting tired of this , i tested this at 300 drainx and up against sci , tac , engineer , engineers have inversion and eps to "deter" the full drain , but at 500 drainx and up it becomes nullfied as tykens can reach over 100 negative power levels sure u can clear the debuff but it reapplys each second , sure speed will get you out of it but you will still be left without powerlevels , you're not going to move very fast with 0 engine power... this was tested against a pilot escort ... still able to fully stop ... its too strong and needs to be toned down , my problem with it is tykens rift is scaled up so high the resistance to it becomes nothing , meaning , if you run into another drainx build with the same amount drainx as you , you will not be able to resist the drain , now combine that with disables , engines offlines etc , subnuke etc ... backstep ... manifold is 2minute cd . temporal spec - anomalys follow targets , tykens aftershock .... where is this counter you guys are seeing im not seeing it ..
    Post edited by sleeeperr1 on
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    asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    Isn't there a boff or set ability that dissipates/collaspes abnormalities like tykens and grav wells? If not than that might be something to look into as a new addition for boff abilities one that allows the user to collapse grave-wells/tyken's rifts/and the like early with maybe taking a bit of kinetic damage from them collapsing.
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    renimaltrenimalt Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    sleeeperr1 wrote: »
    I'm getting tired of this , i tested this at 300 drainx and up against sci , tac , engineer , engineers have inversion and eps to "deter" the full drain , but at 500 drainx and up it becomes nullfied as tykens can reach over 100 negative power levels sure u can clear the debuff but it reapplys each second...

    I can confirm what Sleeper is saying about Tyken's on Tribble. On an Engineering captain with 120 DrainX, I activated EPS Power Transfer, Nadion Inversion, and Hazard Emitters while he cast Tyken's on me. Even though HE clears the Tyken's debuff quickly, each application of Tyken's still drains power from the subsystems immediately on application, and even EPS Power Transfer and Nadion Inversion combined couldn't stop my power levels from hitting 0. (My power levels bounced between 0 and ~25 with EPS Power Transfer and Nadion Inversion together: Tyken's would drain all power, some power would refill due to the power transfer bonus, and Tyken's would drain it all again.)

    Perhaps Tyken's should be reworked such that it lowers the power level setting without deducting power from subsystems immediately when the debuff is applied? If this is done, then staying in a Tyken's without a cleanse will still drain you to 0, but if you have a cleanse going then your power levels remain around normal.
    asuran14 wrote: »
    Isn't there a boff or set ability that dissipates/collaspes abnormalities like tykens and grav wells? If not than that might be something to look into as a new addition for boff abilities one that allows the user to collapse grave-wells/tyken's rifts/and the like early with maybe taking a bit of kinetic damage from them collapsing.

    Emit Unstable Warp Bubble prevents enemies from activating anomaly abilities (GW, Tyken's, Subspace Vortex, etc.), but it won't clear an anomaly that already exists (I think). It's also on a long cooldown (20s active, 120s single-ability CD, 60 duplicate-ability CD).
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    asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    renimalt wrote: »
    sleeeperr1 wrote: »
    I'm getting tired of this , i tested this at 300 drainx and up against sci , tac , engineer , engineers have inversion and eps to "deter" the full drain , but at 500 drainx and up it becomes nullfied as tykens can reach over 100 negative power levels sure u can clear the debuff but it reapplys each second...

    I can confirm what Sleeper is saying about Tyken's on Tribble. On an Engineering captain with 120 DrainX, I activated EPS Power Transfer, Nadion Inversion, and Hazard Emitters while he cast Tyken's on me. Even though HE clears the Tyken's debuff quickly, each application of Tyken's still drains power from the subsystems immediately on application, and even EPS Power Transfer and Nadion Inversion combined couldn't stop my power levels from hitting 0. (My power levels bounced between 0 and ~25 with EPS Power Transfer and Nadion Inversion together: Tyken's would drain all power, some power would refill due to the power transfer bonus, and Tyken's would drain it all again.)

    Perhaps Tyken's should be reworked such that it lowers the power level setting without deducting power from subsystems immediately when the debuff is applied? If this is done, then staying in a Tyken's without a cleanse will still drain you to 0, but if you have a cleanse going then your power levels remain around normal.

    Well maybe to keep the idea of tyken's being a power draining rift, and rework it to both reduce the power transfer/recharge rate, as well as drain the power of the ship it is after just with the drain reworked to a lower amount to compensate for the added fact of it reducing the rate you regain an transfer power under it's effect. Though a work around that agianst pc targets it drain a different amount than compared to enemy targets would be fine too, as the power levels of enemies are vastly higher than players warranting the need for higher power drain totals.
    renimalt wrote: »
    asuran14 wrote: »
    Isn't there a boff or set ability that dissipates/collaspes abnormalities like tykens and grav wells? If not than that might be something to look into as a new addition for boff abilities one that allows the user to collapse grave-wells/tyken's rifts/and the like early with maybe taking a bit of kinetic damage from them collapsing.

    Emit Unstable Warp Bubble prevents enemies from activating anomaly abilities (GW, Tyken's, Subspace Vortex, etc.), but it won't clear an anomaly that already exists (I think). It's also on a long cooldown (20s active, 120s single-ability CD, 60 duplicate-ability CD).

    I thought it might be something like that. It might be nice to have the devs look into either reworking it to collapse anomalies that are active, or have a doff or trait that adds such a effect onto the existing on as a form of counter to anomalies like grave-well an tyken's. Maybe a change to allow make it that anomalies can't be triggered/created inside the area affected by unstable warp bubble for a period of time might also be acceptable.
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    tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    What it seems like the goal is with Tyken's (based on current Tribble numbers) is to make it an AoE Siphon. At the same drain skill and ability rank, Tyken's drains the same as Siphon. It trades the "+power to user" benefit for affecting multiple targets. This seems, at face value, a tradeoff that gives each one a unique use.

    Besides scaling back the absolute value each drains, what would you have the Devs do? Siphon/Rift take 700+ drain to get over the -100 power threshold, and both may still be needed to drain something like a tac cube. Both abilities seem to have their balance point set for PvE, and since that's what the majority of people do, what's the impetus to change one or both powers?
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    asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    tobiashirt wrote: »
    What it seems like the goal is with Tyken's (based on current Tribble numbers) is to make it an AoE Siphon. At the same drain skill and ability rank, Tyken's drains the same as Siphon. It trades the "+power to user" benefit for affecting multiple targets. This seems, at face value, a tradeoff that gives each one a unique use.

    Yeah I can agree with that idea that of them modeling tyken's rift as a aoe o version of syphon, but traded the power return portion for it affecting more than a single target. In ways i also would not have minded if Tykens would trigger some of the traits that are normally triggered by syphon, but that is not something needed an would be hard to keep from being op.
    tobiashirt wrote: »
    Besides scaling back the absolute value each drains, what would you have the Devs do? Siphon/Rift take 700+ drain to get over the -100 power threshold, and both may still be needed to drain something like a tac cube. Both abilities seem to have their balance point set for PvE, and since that's what the majority of people do, what's the impetus to change one or both powers?

    I personally would leave syphon as is, but make a change to tyken's rift that makes it more of a power transfer debuff. I would reduce the overall power drasin of tyken's rift, but than to compensate for the reduced power drain have it debuff the power transfer rate of the ships that are affected making almost synergize with power syphon abit.
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    furyan#5289 furyan Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    Cryptic, Tyken's Rift is way OVERPOWERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    sleeeperr1sleeeperr1 Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    tobiashirt wrote: »
    What it seems like the goal is with Tyken's (based on current Tribble numbers) is to make it an AoE Siphon. At the same drain skill and ability rank, Tyken's drains the same as Siphon. It trades the "+power to user" benefit for affecting multiple targets. This seems, at face value, a tradeoff that gives each one a unique use.

    Besides scaling back the absolute value each drains, what would you have the Devs do? Siphon/Rift take 700+ drain to get over the -100 power threshold, and both may still be needed to drain something like a tac cube. Both abilities seem to have their balance point set for PvE, and since that's what the majority of people do, what's the impetus to change one or both powers?
    tykens fullfilled its job on a specialized drain build pre- s13, or having a teammate work together to fully drain a target to keep both ships tankish , give and take the way it is with every other build , tyken's in this state makes it unbalanced and unfair , not everyship can throw on 800 drainx to resist the drain .. . it did not need this buff , a slight buff to the old version of tykens would have been better than this double buff , everyone says its too strong in this state ... people want to pvp .... its been 6 years mythical pvp season is upon us the masses cry out for the change just let it happen shhh no more fighting it
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    nandospcnandospc Member Posts: 1,260 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I used tyken's rift yesterday, and it's totally OP. My targets could do almost nothing to counter it, they were always turned off in barely 1 second... Fix it.
    Also, fix PvP Private Challenges, they don't work, and fix stacking AoE debuffs, lot of people using multiple TIFs isn't so ok lol.
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    risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    What about tweaking hazard emitters so it can clear tykens while it's active? It was a good suggestion in another thread.
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    renimaltrenimalt Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    What about tweaking hazard emitters so it can clear tykens while it's active? It was a good suggestion in another thread.

    Hazard Emitters already clears Tyken's debuffs. The problem is that it won't prevent the Tyken's buffs from applying (they get applied then cleared by Haz), and that each application immediately drains power from your subsystems. Even if you can clear the debuff, your subsystems still get drained of a lot of power each time the Tyken's debuff is applied, and so you hit 0 power very quickly.
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    risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I see, because when I got hit with tykens yesterday I hit hazards immediately and it did practically nothing. Thankfully pilot tree gave me some control of my ship.

    Also I keep getting hit with the temporal bubble thing from the temporal ships, which greys out my tray except for science team, but every time I hit science team it does nothing. Is that normal??
    Stupid question, I know but I've only been back for a month after being away for a year or so.
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    cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    Just a thought: Why not remove the energy weapon category restriction, making Fire at Will, Overload, Rapid Fire, and Scatter Volley work on all energy weapons like Surgical Strikes does? Doing that would mean we wouldn't need to tinker with Beam: Overload's mechanics directly, instead simply using beams and Rapid Fire, and could work on more accurately balancing the others against their seat level. That wouldn't address the loss of +DBB setups, but we're losing them anyway with these changes.

    I'm not against this. Making scatter volley burst AOE. Energy weapon overload single target burst. Rapid fire sustained single target, and fire at will sustained AOE.

    Surgical strikes getting altered to make it better vs higher armored mobs maybe ? vs overload which does over all more damage output maybe? Then again not every ship has Intel, so only they would choose surgical strikes over energy weapon overload.

    Torpedos would need some love to say, give torpedoes a more sustained AOE method as well as a sustained single target mode. Maybe in the form a of a engineering power say rapid torpedo arming. It would reduce there damage overall, but would cause all launchers to over a short time launch simultaneously towards one target. Sustained AOE could be torpedo dispersal which would auto acquire targets fire randomly.

    I really don't know what to do with mines, tbh but I could see them combining and renaming + changing powers with torpedo. Like High yield explosive or something.
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