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[STOPC] The Competitive Wargames Reputation

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    furyan#5289 furyan Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    I really like the RP aspect of STO. I mean the game's graphics, map detail, and storyline is very good. In addition, I would like to say great job on the map detail and story arc of the Lukari episodes. I'm not a big fan of the PvE aspect of the game. In its current state, it isn't very challenging even on elite, and it gets easier as one gets better gear. The PvE aspect is ok if all one wants to do is target practice, but for me it's kind of boring to play the same missions over and over for the purpose of getting gear that makes the same missions easier and easier. So I think that competitive PvE is a really good idea, and I can't wait to try it. The appeal of PvP for me is the challenge of building a ship tough enough to stand up against a real opponent that can adapt to my strategies and strategize against me. However, the current state of PvP in STO is too unbalanced. There are few strategies and builds that can be effective. The powers in the game are so overpowered that I can one-shot players with fully tricked out builds and be on the other side of the map before they respond. With that being said, I really appreciate the balance changes that Cryptic is making to the game. I've been on Tribble testing in PvP, and PvP has gotten a lot better. I don't agree with the changes to GDF being reverted, but the Wargames Reputation is a big step in the right direction. I'm excited B)
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    jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    >Finally makes a ground armor with visuals that contains Romulan-specific parts
    >People begging for it since LoR
    >Cryptic locks it behind a PvP rep

    gg Cryptic
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    darakossdarakoss Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    Remember when we were explorers?? .....oh wait...never mind.
    i-dont-always-funny-meme.jpg
    original join date 2010

    Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
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    questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,325 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    What the h.

    Editing a post now hides or removes it?
    @jodarkrider
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
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    risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    I love reading the "I did PvP once, got alphastriked repeatedly and left".

    1st, alphastriking is incredibly difficult to do on a moving target that's continuously cycling buffs like tactical team and EPtS with EPtE because it requires good timing of firing torpedoes and dropping the targets shields within 3 seconds. If you weren't cycling buffs or listening for cloaked ships buffing for an attack then off course you're going to get taken out quickly with new to no resistance. In PvP you need to be constantly buffed to absorb heavy hits.
    Now it's a little different, thanks to the PvE community balance has gone out of the window so skill is not at all necessary and people go around vaping (not alphastriking) everyone regardless of wether you're buffed because unbalanced and untested equipment is excessively OP.

    2nd, every veteran PvPer started off getting alpha strikes immediately at some point. You think this is bad!? You should've tried PvP when it was FvK before we knew how to counter alpha strikes, when the KDF players were infinitely more skilled and when only the KDF had cloak.

    3rd, we have a balance patch coming out. You can go on the forums and ask for help in how to build a ship for PvP, how to handle an attack, how to buff in the correct order, when to heal, when to cloak, when not to run and instead ram the opponent robbing them of a kill point (they rarely see it coming) and how to work as a team.

    My point is, if you want to give PvP a try and stop complaining about the handful of idiots you once met (there are more idiots in the PvE community, afterall you are the larger community, but they're not everywhere) because you got taken out without knowing how to PvP due to a lack of experience and therefore can expect to loose, and start asking the community how to PvP you will definitely improve and eventually hold your own.

    There is a massive difference between PvP and PvE. There are tricks and strategies to both, but if you insist on turning up to Ker'rat with a PvE build and sit still, you will get taken out very quickly.

    For example: in PvE you buff when you want to attack. You enter the queue fly to the target-buff-stop moving-fire, then repeat when target is destroyed. That works in PvE, not in PvP though.
    In PvP: you enter battlezone/arena/C&H, you immediately cloak if you have it.
    If not, go to full throttle (NOT full impulse, never full impulse into fight in PvP) and keep it at full throttle he whole time you're in PvP and start cycling buffs that grant resistance and speed (speed is life in PvP). Buffs such as EPtS, EPtE, Aux2ID (all in one buff for defence in a cruiser especially when doffed) TT, PH, APD (great for countering an alphastrike cloaker) etc...
    You must stay near your team and send heals you're not using to anyone on your team that needs it and read the chat for someone calling targets.

    In summary, if you're going to do a job you have to bring the right tools. If you complain because you couldn't do the job anyway then ask how to get better tools and tricks of the trade.


    P.S. If you decide to give this queue a go and you see someone you suspect is a PvPer, use the chat box and ask them to help you, it's what I used to do before DR.
    On the other hand if you suspect said PvPer is a douche, use the chat box to tell the other team said person is a douche and that he's running a weak build and keeps dying. Theyll get the message.
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    mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    Also amused that the set pistol is referred to as a decompression pistol, and described as a mix of tetryon DEW and gauss weapon. Are the slugs somehow imbued with tetryon energy before firing, or are we dealing with what in WH40K would be termed a combi-weapon? The latter might actually make more sense given how the secondary fire works - that could be the slug magazine, handled like the Omega launcher.. and it's amusing that something like this is how I'd suggested a ways back in terms of how STO could implement projectile weapons beyond the TR-116 and Zefram's shotgun. Bonus nod: the fact that the 'magazine' has six shots. Now, all they need is to make an emote based on this...

    For me it connected with mass effect weapons: the pistol seems made after M-5 phalanx one from ME2 (a laser pointer woundve been nice :P) or the M-358 Talon from ME3.

    About the rep, absolutly love the armor visuals. Finnaly something to stand up apart for romulans. We only got so far fed/kdf flavoured rep stuff. And I agree, fed ones really need a longer cape aswell.
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    spacehermitspacehermit Member Posts: 355 Arc User
    There is a massive difference between PvP and PvE. There are tricks and strategies to both, but if you insist on turning up to Ker'rat with a PvE build and sit still, you will get taken out very quickly.

    Thank you for the explanation. I hope PvPers have great fun with this, but I don't think I'll bother. Hopefully Cryptic will eventually remember what the majority of the community actually voted for over a year ago and get on with developing exploration content once the vocal PvP minority has been sated.
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    furiontassadarfuriontassadar Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Guys, why not give it a try before you judge?

    Most of the people complaining aren't newbies that are anxious at the idea of trying something new. They are people who have actually tried PVP before, or at the very least have encountered PVPers in one form or another, and decided that PVP and the PVP community is just not for them.
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Let me first point out again: Competitive PvE is NOT PvP.

    Again, it doesn't matter how many times you or Cryptic repeats this. Many, if not all, of the problems that people have with "straight" PVP will always exist in any sort of competitive setting.
    "There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
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    batdoodbatdood Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    On the other hand if you suspect said PvPer is a douche, use the chat box to tell the other team said person is a douche and that he's running a weak build and keeps dying. Theyll get the message.

    I'll just address this statement. So basically, if a person doesn't meet your standards in how these queues should be played, you'll resort to spreading word that they're a "douche"? Lovely.

    And some people wonder why a lot of players have no interest in taking part at all. Not everyone wants this. If a person is forced to take part in this aspect of the game to get Elite marks, then you're just going to have to accept the fact that they're not going to meet your standards and you should deal with it gracefully.

    If this is going to be Cryptic's focus for the unforeseeable future, I can see myself taking a break from this game for quite some time.

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    furiontassadarfuriontassadar Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    batdood wrote: »
    If this is going to be Cryptic's focus for the unforeseeable future, I can see myself taking a break from this game for quite some time.

    I wouldn't worry too much about it. When the "Competitive PVE" queues end up even emptier than the regular PVE queues, I think Cryptic will be doing some reconsidering.
    "There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
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    ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    Hmm, cool?

    Have fun with the new queues, whoever will queue for them. That's the best i can wish you while i will myself stick with regular PvE content.
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    dragnridrdragnridr Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Learn the rewards you can earn with the marks you receive in the new competitive wargames!

    Full details here:
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10460633-the-competitive-wargames-reputation

    EDIT: As a note, we've added the following paragraph to the Prevailing Regalia set, as we feel it explains things better:

    "Each piece in the Prevailing Regalia set has three different versions, flavored for Innervated (Damage), Bolstered (Support), and Fortified (Protection). These different items will have slightly different stats, depending on which version you obtain. Captains can mix and match each of these items and still receive the full set bonuses - for example, the Innervated Impulse Engines and Bolstered Deflector Array will provide the 'Well Rounded' bonus listed below when slotted on a ship. If you choose to obtain one version of an item, you will receive a discount on the other two. For example, obtaining the Fortified Warp Core will grant you a discount on the Innervated and Bolstered Warp Cores."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

    Oh, wait.....I guess you are. A PVP reputation......Yeah, no way the devs give two flips about balance after all. This rep is getting a forget it from me.

    Now, if you were to tell me that the New Rep gear is ONLY used in PvP, then fine ok then. But if it can be used in PvE AND PvP.....then no. Just NO.
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    gagocashgagocash Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    Honestly, I'm not a fan of CPvE, given how frustrating I found the Phoenix rocket event and the Competitive Race in Q's Winter Wonderland, I'm thinking it's something I'd best stay out of!
    The RNG or random number generator of the phoenix rocket event was totaly biased. the biggest cheat ever. i saw it myself some players needed only 3 tries to get all purple parts and then some other players had all 3 purple parts and their rocket just explodes in midair. bs.
    M.A.C.O. ELITE COMMANDER & KIRK'S PROTEGE
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    dragnridrdragnridr Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    dragnridr wrote: »
    [...]

    Now, if you were to tell me that the New Rep gear is ONLY used in PvP, then fine ok then. But if it can be used in PvE AND PvP.....then no. Just NO.

    You have ZERO information of the extent of the abilities and stat modifications these reputation sets will give you, and you jump to such a categorical conclusion?

    Huh?

    It's almost a guarantee that the gear will be used in PVE AND PVP. Honestly, Since it's going to be for both, and you can only get the rep marks for it from PVP queues only, it's a pass. I don't care how good the stats are. The devs ssaid they are trying to balance the game again yet they TRIBBLE out more power creep like it's going to solve any issues.
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    storulesstorules Member Posts: 3,253 Arc User
    There is a massive difference between PvP and PvE. There are tricks and strategies to both, but if you insist on turning up to Ker'rat with a PvE build and sit still, you will get taken out very quickly.

    Thank you for the explanation. I hope PvPers have great fun with this, but I don't think I'll bother. Hopefully Cryptic will eventually remember what the majority of the community actually voted for over a year ago and get on with developing exploration content once the vocal PvP minority has been sated.

    When did we vote for this? I dont remember any "official" polls just hearsay forum polls from PvP haters. I have been here since launch and always players had picked on the PvP community. So much so they were persecuted to extinction after the DR fiasco and most left for good.

    Now they throw a bone to resuscitate the so dead PvP and you are saying it is not fair to side with the elites? This is a decision made by PWE and planned for years ago (perhaps earlier than many in here decide to play STO). It is just simple very late and probably won't help much either. There is no reason to flame what once was the PvP community since there is none left. :D


    tumblr_ncbngkt24X1ry46hlo1_400.gif
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    tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,799 Arc User
    The primary reason I am interested in the armor set is because it may provide my Romulan Captain with armor options that look like it's Romulan.
    Currently, they're wearing MACO armor and everytime I see them, i think, sooner or later, someone's going to mistake them for a Vulcan! There's nothing about them that says "I am Romulan".
    I don't know for sure until I have the unlocks for myself and can experiment in the tailor.
    Maybe I should check out the Tribble server and see if it can fast track to T5 so I can get a preview of the outfit options.
    There has to be an armored helmet version though, I don't want an simple glass dome.


    I think the objection being raised with this Reputation is not that the players have to play content, but that they have to play Competitive Content to earn their prizes (the daily marks and the Gear Project Token).
    In my personal experience, I know that the Gear Project Token can only be obtained in the queues linked to the Reputation, so it's a fairly certain deduction it will require participation in a CPvE queue to get this item.
    I haven't worked out if the Reputation Marks can be obtained via other queues, but the blog post reads like these marks can only be obtained via CPvE or PvP.

    I personally don't like the idea of competing with players in any form, so if I choose to do the CPvE queues to earn my tailor armor options, I won't be putting in any effort whatsoever.
    I don't care about winning, I just want my daily marks and the Gear Project Token.
    So provided I obtain those items when the match ends, I'm satisfied with the result.


    And honestly, the "try it before you disapprove of it" suggestion doesn't carry any weight.
    You don't have to try walking past the safety signs and falling into a roadworks construction pit to know it's not a smart idea.
    In any case, we've all had a little preview of how this works, thanks to the Phoenix event, which was designed to test the mechanics of CPvE before the deployment of this " content update".
    So it has been tried.


    As regards Build mechanics, that is a controversial issue, both in PvE and PvP.
    There's no shortage of players who feel it is necessary to tell you exactly how wrong your build is and exactly what must be done to get a pro build.
    There's an maxim I was given "it's your character and you can play it however the heck you want".
    I think the meaning is that you have to enjoy playing in a way that is fun to you, if you're not doing this, then gameplay isn't interesting.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
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    risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    @sophlogimo
    Yes "alphastriking" like the kind of alphastriking that @thissler used to do and ofhers, where you wait for an opening in the opponent's buff cycle, quickly buff, drop cloak, fire HY2 or HY3 torpedoes and as they approach you drop their shields with a BO2 with CRF2 or BO3 to give the torpedoes a clean hit within 3 seconds of decloak is very difficult to perform on a moving target, extremely difficult on someone moving and cycling buffs, but much easier on someone sitting still.

    Insta-Vaping is entirely different and is a result of the Devs lack of interest in testing new releases and PvP, and the PvE community's anti-nerf balance policy which has resulted in the DPS or leave meta. Insta-Vaping is definitely extremely difficult to block even with resists or even in a tank. Until DR you had to be ludicrously quick with buffs to prevent a Vaper but it could be done. After DR and still to this day there is no chance.

    Alphastriking has always been a great part of the game because once a player fails an alphastrike, which happened very often in PvP, despite popular belief, they either run or have to get help. 2 Tactics teams was always good way to block an alphastrike.

    I agree with you on ship speed, ships are way to fast and torpedoes are way to slow now. I've often wondered if it would be a good idea for Devs to bring the speed of ships down a bit or the speed boost you get from EPtE.

    With good game balance, alphastriking is very counter-able.

    The difference between PvP and PvE is present in every game because no NPC can come close to a human player. There's only so far you can go to make them similar. Having balanced game play and asking for help has always worked.

    I agree with your last 2 paragraphs, it's a little sad but true. I definitely agree with the need for and want balance, it's what the PvP community has fought for for 6 years. Fought for and lost, which is what led to this, hopefully soon to be fixed, wreck.
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    risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    @batdood so I'm saying that if I have a problem with a PvPer because he is being a douche and abusive to players, probably inexperienced players who are trying to get the hang of the new queues, I shouldn't tell him to shut up and play nice? Perhaps even report him for abusive behaviour?
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    thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,984 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    LOL when I first read the thread title I thought it said "[STOP] The Competitive Wargames Reputation."

    Wargames in Star Trek consist of muted weapons fire that certainly doesn't end up with my ship exploding.

    Klingons attacking Feds with real weapons would see the Organians curb stomping them back to the stone age.

    Instead just fix the warp out bug.



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    spacehermitspacehermit Member Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    storules wrote: »
    There is a massive difference between PvP and PvE. There are tricks and strategies to both, but if you insist on turning up to Ker'rat with a PvE build and sit still, you will get taken out very quickly.

    Thank you for the explanation. I hope PvPers have great fun with this, but I don't think I'll bother. Hopefully Cryptic will eventually remember what the majority of the community actually voted for over a year ago and get on with developing exploration content once the vocal PvP minority has been sated.

    When did we vote for this? I dont remember any "official" polls just hearsay forum polls from PvP haters. I have been here since launch and always players had picked on the PvP community. So much so they were persecuted to extinction after the DR fiasco and most left for good.

    Now they throw a bone to resuscitate the so dead PvP and you are saying it is not fair to side with the elites? This is a decision made by PWE and planned for years ago (perhaps earlier than many in here decide to play STO). It is just simple very late and probably won't help much either. There is no reason to flame what once was the PvP community since there is none left. :D


    An official poll definitely happened! If memory serves it was done prior to the launch of season 11. I can't find a link to it, but maybe someone cleverer than me can.

    Edit: I found the original poll, but for some reason the results have been removed. I guess that is democracy in action, 21st century style.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1180107/sto-player-poll-february-12th-2015/p1
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    tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,799 Arc User
    The CPvE queues are not comparable to any existing gameplay currently available, it's a match designed so that a team can win and a team will lose, nothing can get around that fact.
    And as a result, it's a reasonable possibility that this will draw players to these queues who are invested in winning, because playing these matches appeals to their competitive streak, which might then cause these players to lose their temper because their team lost.

    The above reason is my major hesitation when it comes to this Reputation, I view the CPvE match as an unpleasant task I need to get through with a minimum of drama just to earn the marks and prize token necessary to progress the Reputation projects, I don't need someone making the experience more unbearable by obsessing over the fact they aren't winning.

    MST3K Mantra:
    It's just a game, I really should relax.

    LOL when I first read the thread title I thought it said "[STOP] The Competitive Wargames Reputation."

    Hahaha!
    Thank you for providing a gem of amusement and merriness. :D

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,101 Arc User
    Can we get more than two queues for this rep? Maybe some 1v1 melee stuff? or some board racing? :D
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I disagree with the difference between alphastriking and insta-vaping.
    Alphastriking requires timing, patience and precision which are products of experience and skill usually by using BO to squeeze HY torps through a gap in the shields and it's thwarted by buff cycling and piloting. Insta-vaping requires overpowered equipment and a troll. Very little defence against that unless you have the reaction times of the flash... or immunities.

    Couldn't agree with you more about ship speed. Most ships fly past and out of range by the time they decloak for an attack lol.
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