In my time in STO I have seen many people make reference to a form of 'space illuminati' or "dilluminati" group operating in Star Trek Online. If the stories are true, these people are responsible for manipulating many aspects of the game to suit their own selfish ends. Sometimes the story is about them manipulating ship prices, sometimes dil prices.
What all the stories have in common is that they seem fanciful to an informed observer. No evidence is ever given, and deep delving usually reveals cognitive errors, ignorance about facts, or ulterior motives in the people spreading the tales.
One take I heard on it recently condemned the Dilluminati for "inflating the prices of ships." The subject believed that he had a right to buy other players' ships from them for a specific price that he chose, and that anyone who interfered with this was violating the terms of service by spoiling his gaming experience.
It's my view that things like the prices of ships can be easily explained if you apply some basic laws about commerce, like the notion of supply and demand curves. I believe that these curves represent facts about people and their dispositions, that they aren't just abstract theories.
In my considered view, based on my long experience and deep knowledge about the space economy, there is no Dilluminati. It's just impersonal market forces at work, as impersonal and difficult to influence as the weather is in real life. I don't think the space economy is "manipulated" any more than the weather is.
One of the arguments put forth by the subject I encountered was that "you can talk about all these economic theories, but the dilluminati is real and what they are doing is wrong, I know for sure." Should such a view be given any consideration at all?
Do you have a story about the Dilluminati? What impact do they have on the game? Is every price dictated by them, or only certain prices? How can players band together to fight this hidden menace?
Actually quite a funny post. I think the guys who scream at people not to buy keys to unlock boxes so they can try to win a Ship, but to buy $250 worth of Keys to sell for EC and buy ships at 1.5 Billion EC is evident of this behaviour. This is something I see often. Why they can't just leave people alone to buy whatever they want and not quote 'observed' odds that are below stated odds!! They just have no comprehesion of what the term 'odds' actually means.
Two possiblities:
1. They think they're being so clever they just have to educate the ignorant masses of this great big "secret" they've figured out.
2. They're buying keys/promo boxes on the ex and selling the ships at a profit themselves, and would like nothing better than for key/box prices to go down (from more people selling them) and ship prices to go up (from more people buying them).
The dilex is just player driven. It's pretty easy to observe the fluctuations based on what else is happening in the game.
Desirable new lockbox or c-store ships = cost of zen in dil goes up as demand for zen increases.
Phoenix box available = price of zen drops rapidly as people want dil to buy phoenix tokens.
That's just simple supply & demand at work there.
Now the exchange itself.....well there's definitely attempts at cornering the market and forcing prices up but it's a really iffy game to play, the losses can be huge if you mess it up.
I don't mean just buy low sell high on the odd item, i'm talking times when all the T5U upgrades were bought when available at 12M and reappeared a few days later at 20M. Someone trying to force prices up and making a killing but be wary, those tokens are not all that desirable and as such they probably don't sell as well.
I've honestly never seen the keys as a decent way to make money, at most you'll make a few hundred thousand EC of a key. Though i guess someone doing this a thousand times a day will make money faster.
The ships and larger items are where money can be made, you can get 10's of millions from a single under-priced or quick sale ship that way.
Or the time recently when Crpytic fubared and dropped the T6 Jem'hadar Heavy Escort Carrier from the Lobi Store after an Infinity Event ended and the Sphere Builders Lockbox released (they used an earlier Store configuration when updating for the Sphere Builders). Prices for that HEC shot up from the upper 200s/lower 300s to the upper 600s.
A Thread was started to inform people to hold off buying the ship at those gouging prices as it would be fixed and made available in the Store again on the next patch.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
it seem better off buying a ship straight from zen for $20 or $30 dollars than paying for $250 or more, they want you to hand over 250 keys when you could win within 20 keys if lucky. look like they are selling to get money back by that value of the keys they spend.
it is only pretty looking ships, that all, there are other ships are better.
i just assume they might be 3rd party sellers causing inflated price when that wasnt intended made by devs as they were trying to earn the living and to keep the game going, and the sellers still robbing Cryptics and the players.
just my opinion, devs should bring back and change that RNG to where it was at first season of lockboxes released when nearly everyone almost win one in 20 chances instead of 200 chances or harder to get, that caused overinflated prices, if they become more easy drop rates, the prices will go down as long as players can ignore 3rd party sellers' baits and they lose money more than Cryptic can make.
no one likes super ultra elite rares that is too hard to get or way too pricey. devs or market team really need common sense. they are about to be most hated if they make more mistakes.
it seem better off buying a ship straight from zen for $20 or $30 dollars than paying for $250 or more, they want you to hand over 250 keys when you could win within 20 keys if lucky. look like they are selling to get money back by that value of the keys they spend.
it is only pretty looking ships, that all, there are other ships are better.
i just assume they might be 3rd party sellers causing inflated price when that wasnt intended made by devs as they were trying to earn the living and to keep the game going, and the sellers still robbing Cryptics and the players.
just my opinion, devs should bring back and change that RNG to where it was at first season of lockboxes released when nearly everyone almost win one in 20 chances instead of 200 chances or harder to get, that caused overinflated prices, if they become more easy drop rates, the prices will go down as long as players can ignore 3rd party sellers' baits and they lose money more than Cryptic can make.
no one likes super ultra elite rares that is too hard to get or way too pricey. devs or market team really need common sense. they are about to be most hated if they make more mistakes.
I disagree.
It's good for there to be rare desirable stuff, it gives the game texture and makes it rewarding for people.
Bear in mind, lockbox ships are no more expensive than they were in the past.
When keys were 1m and lockbox ships were 70-80m, that was 70-80 keys per ship.
Keys at 5.8m and ships at 300m, its only 51 keys per ship.
Stable promo ship prices have historically been somewhere around 200-250 keys. This is still the case.
The main issue is the daily net increase of EC in circulation by folks printing more new EC than they're sinking, and the fact that it's been happening since the game launched. This is what causes "overinflated prices", not some boogeyman.
There is an organization run by some funny dentists that control most aspects of the market. Why these dentists spend their free time after drilling teeth, manipulating a fake economy is beyond my imagination. They often do also make funny posts and videos. ;-)
I get free zen every couple of weeks. Those Arc quests add up.
If you happen to have all the games on Arc. Only have 3... it takes months if you're lucky.
Anyways... the only manipulation I see in the DL Exchange is indirect. Player reaction to ship releases, sales, and events. Demand for Zen goes up or supply of DL goes up, price goes up. Demand for DL goes up (like with the Phoenix Box) price comes down.
Its all supply and demand.
Or you can install launchers for another three or four games. All you have to do is launch the launcher and you get credit. No need to actually play the game. That's how nikeix and I do it. It now supplements my lifer stipend as well.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I get free zen every couple of weeks. Those Arc quests add up.
If you happen to have all the games on Arc. Only have 3... it takes months if you're lucky.
Anyways... the only manipulation I see in the DL Exchange is indirect. Player reaction to ship releases, sales, and events. Demand for Zen goes up or supply of DL goes up, price goes up. Demand for DL goes up (like with the Phoenix Box) price comes down.
Its all supply and demand.
Or you can install launchers for another three or four games. All you have to do is launch the launcher and you get credit. No need to actually play the game. That's how nikeix and I do it. It now supplements my lifer stipend as well.
I hate how some games force you to download them completely before accessing their launchers, if they are like a few gigabytes it's okay but when they are like 5-11 gigabytes that's where it becomes annoying for me.
first 3 lockboxes were easier to get ships, i pull with a few keys, then newer boxes were harder and use up keys as i set limited keys like 20-25 keys on each box cycle, got nothing but junks. dont say i wasted keys, since i get lobi gems when needed.
LOL, a billion EC? they will jack up prices on items they sells to recoup thier addiction costs. just completely ignore them. just play the game.
The highly fragmented nature of the markets and lack of external information sources other than actual market prices makes manipulation possible.
There are no disclosure requirements - heck we cannot even tell who the seller is.
While I'm not sure there is a secret cabal, I can say there are some very aggressive people working the exchanges for commodity items like upgrades. The same people seem to purchase from me in large quantities, creating a floor on prices.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
1. They think they're being so clever they just have to educate the ignorant masses of this great big "secret" they've figured out.
2. They're buying keys/promo boxes on the ex and selling the ships at a profit themselves, and would like nothing better than for key/box prices to go down (from more people selling them) and ship prices to go up (from more people buying them).
Desirable new lockbox or c-store ships = cost of zen in dil goes up as demand for zen increases.
Phoenix box available = price of zen drops rapidly as people want dil to buy phoenix tokens.
That's just simple supply & demand at work there.
Now the exchange itself.....well there's definitely attempts at cornering the market and forcing prices up but it's a really iffy game to play, the losses can be huge if you mess it up.
I don't mean just buy low sell high on the odd item, i'm talking times when all the T5U upgrades were bought when available at 12M and reappeared a few days later at 20M. Someone trying to force prices up and making a killing but be wary, those tokens are not all that desirable and as such they probably don't sell as well.
The ships and larger items are where money can be made, you can get 10's of millions from a single under-priced or quick sale ship that way.
A Thread was started to inform people to hold off buying the ship at those gouging prices as it would be fixed and made available in the Store again on the next patch.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
it is only pretty looking ships, that all, there are other ships are better.
i just assume they might be 3rd party sellers causing inflated price when that wasnt intended made by devs as they were trying to earn the living and to keep the game going, and the sellers still robbing Cryptics and the players.
just my opinion, devs should bring back and change that RNG to where it was at first season of lockboxes released when nearly everyone almost win one in 20 chances instead of 200 chances or harder to get, that caused overinflated prices, if they become more easy drop rates, the prices will go down as long as players can ignore 3rd party sellers' baits and they lose money more than Cryptic can make.
no one likes super ultra elite rares that is too hard to get or way too pricey. devs or market team really need common sense. they are about to be most hated if they make more mistakes.
Stable promo ship prices have historically been somewhere around 200-250 keys. This is still the case.
The main issue is the daily net increase of EC in circulation by folks printing more new EC than they're sinking, and the fact that it's been happening since the game launched. This is what causes "overinflated prices", not some boogeyman.
Or you can install launchers for another three or four games. All you have to do is launch the launcher and you get credit. No need to actually play the game. That's how nikeix and I do it. It now supplements my lifer stipend as well.
Doesn't that basically make you the main character in this theory of yours?
Those would sell like hotcakes.
Must be real... I can feel it's power... must... resist... (wait, I thought there was a secret handshake or something?)
oh, and I stole your work and used as my avatar, hope you don't mind
LOL, a billion EC? they will jack up prices on items they sells to recoup thier addiction costs. just completely ignore them. just play the game.
If we're gonna have a troll tool then make it a ridiculously expensive one so I can wave my money about more openly!
There are no disclosure requirements - heck we cannot even tell who the seller is.
While I'm not sure there is a secret cabal, I can say there are some very aggressive people working the exchanges for commodity items like upgrades. The same people seem to purchase from me in large quantities, creating a floor on prices.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"