If plasmonic leech wasn't working as intended why did you wait seven years and let players spend absurd amounts of money and resources on it then? They weren't spending millions of EC for a +6, you know it and I know it. So don't pretend that this isn't a huge deal and YOUR fault, because both are true.
Saying something to the effect of "you should have known better" when EVERYONE you asked said to get a leech to up your DPS (yes that means YOU too) it was NEVER about drain. This is blaming AND punishing the victim here.
They left it alone for seven year because gave cryptic money for seven years. After the infinity lock box it became cheap DPS for everybody. Cryptic likes DPS to stay expensive, hence the adjustment after seven years.
Indeed that's the only sane conclusion one can come to. All this unqualified BS about it "not working as intended" is really "not making us money anymore". The thing they don't realize is that huge swaths of casual people quitting because 90% of pug groups won't be able to complete advanced content isn't going to make them money either. Those people WON'T be back either, not in this market.
Okay seriously Devs? There are WAY to many nerfs here and alot of these dont even need nerfs. Transfer Shield Strength, why nerf it? Nerfing Gravity Well after nerfing Beam Array Fire at Will as well? Do you suddenly hate AoE attacks? THE ONLY GOOD CHANGES that im seeing here are with Carrier Pets, but all the nerfs to powers, im sorry to say, are absolutely terrible.
...and the new science ability makes my science officers in escorts have a useless ability. Seeing as they have no drain, control, or drainX stuff.
Pretty much the new change and loss of subnuc beam is forcing science officers into science ships...
Have to agree with this. SubNuc was a nice, generic ability that could be used on any ship class. Now if you want to make full use of your science captain's abilities you'll be flying science oriented ships which will make this class unique. Engineering captains don't require cruisers to use all of their abilities in even a marginal way nor tactical captains escorts. Even a tactical captain in a science ship with only a Lt tactical station will get more use out of Tactical Initiative, up to this point something I considered the worst combination, than a science captain in an escort with only a Lt science station with Deflector Overcharge. If Cryptic needs to move subnuc to a BOff ability, they should consider replacing the captain ability with something more generic that applies to all ship classes. I have no constructive ideas for a replacement but then again I have no idea why they want to change it in the first place.
Exactly this, it's pigeon holing science captains into science ships. A far simpler approach would be to add the over charge ability to a existing ability we already posses. Rather than taking something away and replacing it with something useless to most class of ships other than science. I know there are some cruisers and escorts with some science stations, but all in all, it is a poor attempt to hide the numerous nerfs many are being hit with.
As it is, many of my science captains will undergo a fundamental change, due to them being forced to use more science orientated ships from the deflector over charge change. And no number of respecs will be able to replace the money, ec, dilithium and most importantly the time spent acquiring and getting equipment/ships on my characters.
I'd rather see a middle ground, rather than being lumbered with an ability that has no use for most ship classes. I'll not even go into tractor repulsor changes due to the forum so kindly eating my posts!
I was on tribble yesterday testing, and I have to say that these changes have definitely made the space mechanics a lot more balanced. Yes, some stuff got nerfed because it was overpowered. That's why many people get vaped in PvP before they can even activate a power on their ship, or they can't enjoy a PVE mission because it's over in 5 seconds after it starts. The balance changes won't stop you from reaching the top of the DPS league or being good at PvP. It just opens up new options for you, and it brings back old options that you can add to the ones you already have.
...Exactly this, it's pigeon holing science captains into science ships...
I doubt I would ever create a new science captain if that particular tribble change made it live unless I was absolutely sure they would fly a science ship and only a science ship throughout their career. For any possible future ship with just a Lt science station used (there are quite a few) my 'must have' abilities are Hazard Emitters and Polarize Hull. From what I'm reading HE gets no bonus from Deflector Overcharge and even if the added control expertise offered by DO affects PH, I doubt I'd ever use it to boost my typical usages.
I would expect that players would typically use DO as preparation to a science alpha strike, but what kind of alpha strike can a ship launch with just Lt skills?
No. I think I'd pass rolling a new science toon. At least with the other two character classes I'd know that if I'd want to change ships in the future the captain's abilities are somewhat useful in any ship.
I would expect that players would typically use DO as preparation to a science alpha strike, but what kind of alpha strike can a ship launch with just Lt skills?
Deflector overcharge just pushes science captains to the same heal/part gens corner the devs want us to be at. Not sure how this ability is better than what we currently have if we run a control or drain build since now I get no captain subnuc and have to sacrifice a science slot for a watered down subnuc.
Yes, they are, and that is extremely good for STO as an entertainment activity.
It's the death knell for STO just like the NGE was for SWG. It's sad to see companies self destruct like this, there is no reason, other than money grubbing because the price of leeches has gone down, to do this to the game after seven years.
It's the death knell for STO just like the NGE was for SWG. It's sad to see companies self destruct like this, there is no reason, other than money grubbing because the price of leeches has gone down, to do this to the game after seven years.
Oh man. I was just waiting for someone to trot out the NGE boogieman. The true mark of desperation in trying to frighten Devs into leaving your precious alone.
I would expect that players would typically use DO as preparation to a science alpha strike, but what kind of alpha strike can a ship launch with just Lt skills?
Deflector overcharge just pushes science captains to the same heal/part gens corner the devs want us to be at. Not sure how this ability is better than what we currently have if we run a control or drain build since now I get no captain subnuc and have to sacrifice a science slot for a watered down subnuc.
Deflector Overcharge: This new power boosts provides Bonus Exotic Damage and Shield Healing while active, and additionally boosts Control Expertise and Drain Expertise.
Shield healing and exotic damage is acutally not purely a science thing.
Emergency Power to Shields and Extend Shields are shield healing powers as well.
And Aceton Beam and Eject Warp Plasma should be exotic damage as well.
I believe Needs of the Many and Overwhelm Shields also provide shield healing. (The former only to your allies.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
You won't gain that much damage by merely stacking EPG though because they just stack on top of base damage. You'd be sacrificing damage by going for max EPG on an exotic build (which is contrary to the purpose of stacking EPG).
Drains continue to increase in effectiveness when you stack DrainX, which is what the purpose is of stacking DrainX. However, (as you already know), you'll be sacrificing damage in the process. I think the changes are overall good for Drain and Control builds, since they can continue to max up their chosen stats and increase their effectiveness in their chosen role and deal more damage at the same time.
On Tribble, Drainers seem to be doing good actually. Watch them shut down a Pickle and Queen in HSE (skip to 1:43.44):
At Tankia's drain levels above the shield knock-off on the built-in sci ship's SST1 was 14.9 seconds at 795 DrainX (scales with DrainX). I think he was at over -100 drain with Tyken's per tick? I can't remember. It was a long episode of The Show.
Now with that ability to shut down systems, combined with the additional damage buff Scis get, I think we'll see some interesting Drain and Control combos on Tribble.
Shield healing and exotic damage is acutally not purely a science thing.
Emergency Power to Shields and Extend Shields are shield healing powers as well.
And Aceton Beam and Eject Warp Plasma should be exotic damage as well.
I believe Needs of the Many and Overwhelm Shields also provide shield healing. (The former only to your allies.)
"Aceton Beam and Eject Warp Plasma" are presently exotic damage and benifit from EPG points..
It just opens up new options for you, and it brings back old options that you can add to the ones you already have.
Not for me its ruining the playstyles I like torpedoes and offering nothing new.
I don't know what's going on with your torps, but my torps are working even better.
I play like they do in the TV show which is as Captain I tell my tactical officer to prepare a torpedo spread on my mark. Then I fly in at range on full impulse and at the right tactical moment go mark and the tactical officer responds with the pre prepared orders. It’s fun and just like what they do in the TV show. Only now after I get to that tactical moment the tactical officer forgets to fire. Which both ruins the fun, flow and experience of combat. The secondary problem is the torps I use have longer cooldowns then that 10seconds. So I can tell the tactical officer to fire a torpedo spread at the next available moment, that moment arrive and he forgets to fire causing me to lose my single torpedo spread so I have to wait another 30 seconds.
With the changes to how cannons fire making alot of people find that going back to dual heavies over dual cannons, maybe making a shift to dual cannons to have them have a higher firing arc (not 90 degrees but maybe 65-75 degrees) could make them more appealing a choice. Also such a change would mean that you could slot dual cannons on a slower turning ship without needing to waste slots on turn rate boosting consoles, but still could slot turn rate boosts f you wished to have the more burst oriented dual heavies on that same ship.
I have always found extend shield kinda weird, but quite useful as a healer. Though I have always wonder if it might serve a better purpose as a form of healer/tank ability if it were reworked to function more as a toggle. Like that you could toggle it on a target within 10 km of you, and it would transfer a portion of healing done to your own ship's shields to the toggled target, while also giving them a sort of secondary shielding type effect as well. Maybe allow it that if they heal their own shields it heals the user's shields first. and maybe that damage done to a target with extend shields on it is divided between both player's.
I noticed that the AoE for Tyken and GW was only 3Km on my engineer on tribble.
Can someone with a dedicated science build (high investment in control and particle) check the AoE?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Shield healing and exotic damage is acutally not purely a science thing.
Emergency Power to Shields and Extend Shields are shield healing powers as well.
And Aceton Beam and Eject Warp Plasma should be exotic damage as well.
I believe Needs of the Many and Overwhelm Shields also provide shield healing. (The former only to your allies.)
"Aceton Beam and Eject Warp Plasma" are presently exotic damage and benifit from EPG points..
Yes, there are other skills that can be affected by Deflector Overload besides those from science. Though not to push EPtS or ES aside too lightly - I would think those are situational abilities that one would not pop off a prior overload for. So AB and EWP warrant some more scrutiny. But going back to how this change makes the science class unique, no other captain's ability is 'useful' only if you pick a certain BOff layout. A layout that isn't necessarily supportable in all ships. Pretty much no matter how you layout a ship, an engineer or tactical captain has abilities that will always benefit it, just as SubNuc always had a benefit. The one counter example I can think of is an all universal ship (BoP) that you'll unlikely not slot a single tactical BOff in, in which case Tactical Initiative does you absolutely nothing. Given this new Deflector Overload I can come up with plenty of loadouts on plenty of ships that would not be affected by DO at all. Admitted I don't think any ship should go without a shield heal of some sorts, but again since shield healing is usually situational the forethought of using DO prior to a heal could be more of a hindrance than a benefit (unless its effects last in the minutes - doubtful).
I think it's a bad idea to replace the captain ability SubNuc with something not as generalized as all the other captain abilities and that it would deter me from making a science captain in lieu of the other classes.
I noticed that the AoE for Tyken and GW was only 3Km on my engineer on tribble.
Can someone with a dedicated science build (high investment in control and particle) check the AoE?
That's what happens when people "fix" science abilites. They too often break.
I noticed that the AoE for Tyken and GW was only 3Km on my engineer on tribble.
Can someone with a dedicated science build (high investment in control and particle) check the AoE?
Tyken's Rift has been 3km since long before I changed it.
Gravity Well I has also been 3km base radius since long before I looked at the power. Ranks II and III have larger base radii, and all 3 ranks still scale up with your Control Expertise.
Shield healing and exotic damage is acutally not purely a science thing.
Emergency Power to Shields and Extend Shields are shield healing powers as well.
And Aceton Beam and Eject Warp Plasma should be exotic damage as well.
I believe Needs of the Many and Overwhelm Shields also provide shield healing. (The former only to your allies.)
I play a Science character in a Resolute. Deflector Overcharge is not going to do anything for me.
"But, what about Aceton Beam? You even have a trait for it!"
Yeah... and 2 science console slots. Every two minutes I can drop a mediocre Aceton Beam. The trait is especially strange since I don't have any means to "group up" enemies to make use of it. Thankfully, the patch allows me to use it on Gorn Science Vessels, so at least someone makes use of the trait
"But, it boosts heals!"
I have 5 Engineering consoles and 3 Engineering BoFFs. I have never said "You know what I need? More heals!". I have lots of passive boosts/consoles to healing that work as soon as my powers are off cooldown as opposed to a power that super-charges healing once every 2 minutes.
I guess I'm just playing STO wrong. Science characters should not be in a Resolute.
I noticed that the AoE for Tyken and GW was only 3Km on my engineer on tribble.
Can someone with a dedicated science build (high investment in control and particle) check the AoE?
Tyken's Rift has been 3km since long before I changed it.
Gravity Well I has also been 3km base radius since long before I looked at the power. Ranks II and III have larger base radii, and all 3 ranks still scale up with your Control Expertise.
Thanks for the reply. Was under the impression that it was a larger AoE (5-10Km) for Tyken due to it being a drain ability and not a control ability. Was this change made with the skill revamp?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Comments
Indeed that's the only sane conclusion one can come to. All this unqualified BS about it "not working as intended" is really "not making us money anymore". The thing they don't realize is that huge swaths of casual people quitting because 90% of pug groups won't be able to complete advanced content isn't going to make them money either. Those people WON'T be back either, not in this market.
Exactly this, it's pigeon holing science captains into science ships. A far simpler approach would be to add the over charge ability to a existing ability we already posses. Rather than taking something away and replacing it with something useless to most class of ships other than science. I know there are some cruisers and escorts with some science stations, but all in all, it is a poor attempt to hide the numerous nerfs many are being hit with.
As it is, many of my science captains will undergo a fundamental change, due to them being forced to use more science orientated ships from the deflector over charge change. And no number of respecs will be able to replace the money, ec, dilithium and most importantly the time spent acquiring and getting equipment/ships on my characters.
I'd rather see a middle ground, rather than being lumbered with an ability that has no use for most ship classes. I'll not even go into tractor repulsor changes due to the forum so kindly eating my posts!
I doubt I would ever create a new science captain if that particular tribble change made it live unless I was absolutely sure they would fly a science ship and only a science ship throughout their career. For any possible future ship with just a Lt science station used (there are quite a few) my 'must have' abilities are Hazard Emitters and Polarize Hull. From what I'm reading HE gets no bonus from Deflector Overcharge and even if the added control expertise offered by DO affects PH, I doubt I'd ever use it to boost my typical usages.
I would expect that players would typically use DO as preparation to a science alpha strike, but what kind of alpha strike can a ship launch with just Lt skills?
No. I think I'd pass rolling a new science toon. At least with the other two character classes I'd know that if I'd want to change ships in the future the captain's abilities are somewhat useful in any ship.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Deflector overcharge just pushes science captains to the same heal/part gens corner the devs want us to be at. Not sure how this ability is better than what we currently have if we run a control or drain build since now I get no captain subnuc and have to sacrifice a science slot for a watered down subnuc.
I don't know what's going on with your torps, but my torps are working even better.
You can stack massive amounts of Drain and Control though, so the way I see it, it lets you at least get more damage in on top of your drains and CCs.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
It's the death knell for STO just like the NGE was for SWG. It's sad to see companies self destruct like this, there is no reason, other than money grubbing because the price of leeches has gone down, to do this to the game after seven years.
Yeah, about that....
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1229548/how-to-maximize-part-gens-like-a-14-year-old-minmaxer
Oh man. I was just waiting for someone to trot out the NGE boogieman. The true mark of desperation in trying to frighten Devs into leaving your precious alone.
Still remember people that this is JUST A PLAYTEST NOTHING IS SET IN STONE YET.
I'm sure many things will be adjusted before the end.
This new power boosts provides Bonus Exotic Damage and Shield Healing while active, and additionally boosts Control Expertise and Drain Expertise.
Shield healing and exotic damage is acutally not purely a science thing.
Emergency Power to Shields and Extend Shields are shield healing powers as well.
And Aceton Beam and Eject Warp Plasma should be exotic damage as well.
I believe Needs of the Many and Overwhelm Shields also provide shield healing. (The former only to your allies.)
You won't gain that much damage by merely stacking EPG though because they just stack on top of base damage. You'd be sacrificing damage by going for max EPG on an exotic build (which is contrary to the purpose of stacking EPG).
Drains continue to increase in effectiveness when you stack DrainX, which is what the purpose is of stacking DrainX. However, (as you already know), you'll be sacrificing damage in the process. I think the changes are overall good for Drain and Control builds, since they can continue to max up their chosen stats and increase their effectiveness in their chosen role and deal more damage at the same time.
On Tribble, Drainers seem to be doing good actually. Watch them shut down a Pickle and Queen in HSE (skip to 1:43.44):
At Tankia's drain levels above the shield knock-off on the built-in sci ship's SST1 was 14.9 seconds at 795 DrainX (scales with DrainX). I think he was at over -100 drain with Tyken's per tick? I can't remember. It was a long episode of The Show.
Now with that ability to shut down systems, combined with the additional damage buff Scis get, I think we'll see some interesting Drain and Control combos on Tribble.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
"Aceton Beam and Eject Warp Plasma" are presently exotic damage and benifit from EPG points..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
That's why I don't like this torpedo change.
You lost me there. Why would I torture myself watching that?
I have always found extend shield kinda weird, but quite useful as a healer. Though I have always wonder if it might serve a better purpose as a form of healer/tank ability if it were reworked to function more as a toggle. Like that you could toggle it on a target within 10 km of you, and it would transfer a portion of healing done to your own ship's shields to the toggled target, while also giving them a sort of secondary shielding type effect as well. Maybe allow it that if they heal their own shields it heals the user's shields first. and maybe that damage done to a target with extend shields on it is divided between both player's.
Can someone with a dedicated science build (high investment in control and particle) check the AoE?
Yes, there are other skills that can be affected by Deflector Overload besides those from science. Though not to push EPtS or ES aside too lightly - I would think those are situational abilities that one would not pop off a prior overload for. So AB and EWP warrant some more scrutiny. But going back to how this change makes the science class unique, no other captain's ability is 'useful' only if you pick a certain BOff layout. A layout that isn't necessarily supportable in all ships. Pretty much no matter how you layout a ship, an engineer or tactical captain has abilities that will always benefit it, just as SubNuc always had a benefit. The one counter example I can think of is an all universal ship (BoP) that you'll unlikely not slot a single tactical BOff in, in which case Tactical Initiative does you absolutely nothing. Given this new Deflector Overload I can come up with plenty of loadouts on plenty of ships that would not be affected by DO at all. Admitted I don't think any ship should go without a shield heal of some sorts, but again since shield healing is usually situational the forethought of using DO prior to a heal could be more of a hindrance than a benefit (unless its effects last in the minutes - doubtful).
I think it's a bad idea to replace the captain ability SubNuc with something not as generalized as all the other captain abilities and that it would deter me from making a science captain in lieu of the other classes.
That's what happens when people "fix" science abilites. They too often break.
Tyken's Rift has been 3km since long before I changed it.
Gravity Well I has also been 3km base radius since long before I looked at the power. Ranks II and III have larger base radii, and all 3 ranks still scale up with your Control Expertise.
I got mine to work.
"But, what about Aceton Beam? You even have a trait for it!"
Yeah... and 2 science console slots. Every two minutes I can drop a mediocre Aceton Beam. The trait is especially strange since I don't have any means to "group up" enemies to make use of it. Thankfully, the patch allows me to use it on Gorn Science Vessels, so at least someone makes use of the trait
"But, it boosts heals!"
I have 5 Engineering consoles and 3 Engineering BoFFs. I have never said "You know what I need? More heals!". I have lots of passive boosts/consoles to healing that work as soon as my powers are off cooldown as opposed to a power that super-charges healing once every 2 minutes.
I guess I'm just playing STO wrong. Science characters should not be in a Resolute.
Thanks for the reply. Was under the impression that it was a larger AoE (5-10Km) for Tyken due to it being a drain ability and not a control ability. Was this change made with the skill revamp?