Now epg temporal in pvp are useless, the nerf it´s ok, but the 50% damage vs players it so much, i tested in the tribble and a friend i can´t down the life under the 80%
Wow, PvP just got a lot more interesting. Almost all of these changes are awesome and much needed. I don't really like the nerf to APA's time duration. But after reading all of the excellent changes, I'm going to have to ride with Crypticspartan on that. I'm excited!
Like wow, these are rad and cool, much needed changes. Love the nerfs to embassy consoles. Finally other consoles, even clickies are relevant. Thank you.
2 things I have to add, in the spirit of "choice must be relevant" theme that these changes are having.
First Attack Pattern Alpha and Go Down Fighting should only buff weapon damage to actually mean you have choices. If they still buff All Damage then we cant talk of a choice. Its like this: Why should I play a sci to buff my sci powers (with the new Deflector Overcharge skill) or Why should I play an engie to buff my weapons (via new EPS Transfer buff) when I can play a Tac captain and have BOTH sci powers and weapons buffed via APA and GDF???
Second, I think OSS drawback it shaves off the list the usefulness of Intel powers completly. It will kill it It was the only intel power worth using anyway. How was it before, there was the choice. Like "I choose to use Engie Team to counter the subsystem shutdown but sacrificing a heal". Now there isnt a choice anymore, since nothing can prevent a subsystem shutdown. Maybe leave ET and disable the iconian set hotstarts for OSS... I get the risk and reward here but nothing to balance is... too much. IMHO there should be at least 1 counter... Like for example the new FAW: It has buffs and drawbacks, but those can be adjusted via +Acc on weapons...
So I just got back from the test server (verified twice) and with 100 EPG and 125/100 aux power I am seeing an increase in gravity well damage over what we currently have on live.
Gravity well 3: 1222.9 --> 1794.
Gravity well 1: 733.9 --> 1075.5.
Also looking like something similar is happening with subspace vortex:
Subspace vortex 3: 2301 --> 2428.
Anyone else seeing anything like this?
Would you be kind enough to compare TBR and DRB numbers as well please? I cannot download Tribble due to bandwidth limits right now. Thanks!
Eternal @ 495 EPG, 130 Aux with various exotic-boosting consoles but no active effects in ESD orbit. Same ship, specs, traits, doffs, and gear.
I can confirm i'm seeing similar number changes on my build too.
Aux 123/100, same build on both servers, EPG 596.
GW3: 2854.7 -> 4185.2
SSV3: 5292.1 -> 5580.3
DRB2: 2654.1 -> 1381.7
So DRB is getting hit bad but the others seem to be looking pretty good and that boost to GW is massive. Basically those slotting GW etc for a little bit of extra fun will see a drop in damage but anyone who is investing heavily into it will be reaping the benefits of a massive increase. That's how it should always have worked.
Not sure what is up with DRB though? Why the decrease?
I am in general very happy with the Tribble Patch, but I am not too happy with the changes to Attrition Warfare, the Starbase Damage Buff and Targeting Subsystems seems to be way to overpowered.
Fire at Will:
•Now has a slight damage penalty and accuracy penalty at each rank
Ok, full disclosure: I'm a dark highlord of the super sekrit council of 'Nerf BFAW NAO', but I'm gonna say it - You and I do not use the word 'slight' in even remotely the same way .
B:FAW I -- 80% damage; -50% Accuracy
B:FAW II -- 85% damage; -40% Accuracy
B:FAW III -- 90% damage; -30% Accuracy
That's... dramatic.
I would still like to see a portion of the accuracy penalty only apply to small targets (hangar pets/destructible projectiles). I feel like that would do a better job of emphasizing the value of point defense tools and leverages existing Traits like Precise (+25% Accuracy vs. Small Targets).
Why? It's a good nerf. Tactical captains don't need yet another overpowered damage buff.
I'll let you read up on what those three effects do and see if you can't work out the problem yourself.
You've never listened to any other explanation I've offered. I don't really expect you to start now.
I actually use the good day to die trait along with invincible so I am completely aware of what this means. I do enjoy the implication of ignorance though. Thanks for trying. Now you will have to excuse me, but I just find it totally hilarious how happy you are about certain nerfs while also simultaneously asking for this to be left alone. Your total glee and dismissiveness for other players attempting to discuss some of the nerfs comes off as jerkishly arrogant.
So I just got back from the test server (verified twice) and with 100 EPG and 125/100 aux power I am seeing an increase in gravity well damage over what we currently have on live.
Gravity well 3: 1222.9 --> 1794.
Gravity well 1: 733.9 --> 1075.5.
Also looking like something similar is happening with subspace vortex:
Subspace vortex 3: 2301 --> 2428.
Anyone else seeing anything like this?
Would you be kind enough to compare TBR and DRB numbers as well please? I cannot download Tribble due to bandwidth limits right now. Thanks!
Eternal @ 495 EPG, 130 Aux with various exotic-boosting consoles but no active effects in ESD orbit. Same ship, specs, traits, doffs, and gear.
I can confirm i'm seeing similar number changes on my build too.
Aux 123/100, same build on both servers, EPG 596.
GW3: 2854.7 -> 4185.2
SSV3: 5292.1 -> 5580.3
DRB2: 2654.1 -> 1381.7
So DRB is getting hit bad but the others seem to be looking pretty good and that boost to GW is massive. Basically those slotting GW etc for a little bit of extra fun will see a drop in damage but anyone who is investing heavily into it will be reaping the benefits of a massive increase. That's how it should always have worked.
Not sure what is up with DRB though? Why the decrease?
@crypticspartan#0627 was this intended? I know the GW and SSV values have been changed due to aux scaling, but DRB seems to have been left in the dust pretty badly. Are these numbers intended or is something else in the works here?
Plasmonic Leech on Tribble gives a self buff of +6 power to all subsystems, for a total of +24 power. That is close to 5 times the power level increase a MK XIV Gold +Power console gives. That is still an absurd disparity. The fact that players are stacking [Drain] consoles solely to buff their own power levels is also not how any of this should be working. Drain Expertise is intended to buff your ability to debuff your enemies, and your ability to resist that same set of debuffs. The current state of using Leech and then stacking Drain Expertise to buff your power levels is very far outside of what the design intent of Drain Expertise is, and Flow Capacitors before that.
I get why, it just sucks having things changed around like this after spending huge amounts of time dumping insane amounts of resources into your upgrade system, only to have things changed around and having to deal with the upgrade slog all over again
I think it's funny how he referenced those + energy consoles, no one uses those because they suck and aren't worth the slot. Although I do understand that the Leech was way too powerful. Beware of must-have items I guess.
The main problem I see is that a lot of those consoles and other things that get nerfed have been around forever. They could have done something about those before everyone and their grandmother spent resources on them.
Overall I really like the changes, and I'm looking forward to when it hits holodeck.
One thing I still really dislike is the change of the subnucleonic beam. It was what made the sci unique, as many have said before me. I would have preferred a buff of the photonic fleet and then that made into a boff power instead of the subnuke. So science captains could have both deflector overcharge and subnucleonic beam. Or at least have the option to choose between the abilities for when a player hits level 50 or 60. I still see not much reason to run a sci anymore, except for ground. I'd still rather have a tac in a sci ship because of tactical fleet, GDF and alpha, instead of a sci in a sci ship. And a tac would still be more versatile in terms of ships than a sci.
So I just got back from the test server (verified twice) and with 100 EPG and 125/100 aux power I am seeing an increase in gravity well damage over what we currently have on live.
Gravity well 3: 1222.9 --> 1794.
Gravity well 1: 733.9 --> 1075.5.
Also looking like something similar is happening with subspace vortex:
Subspace vortex 3: 2301 --> 2428.
Anyone else seeing anything like this?
Would you be kind enough to compare TBR and DRB numbers as well please? I cannot download Tribble due to bandwidth limits right now. Thanks!
Eternal @ 495 EPG, 130 Aux with various exotic-boosting consoles but no active effects in ESD orbit. Same ship, specs, traits, doffs, and gear.
I can confirm i'm seeing similar number changes on my build too.
Aux 123/100, same build on both servers, EPG 596.
GW3: 2854.7 -> 4185.2
SSV3: 5292.1 -> 5580.3
DRB2: 2654.1 -> 1381.7
So DRB is getting hit bad but the others seem to be looking pretty good and that boost to GW is massive. Basically those slotting GW etc for a little bit of extra fun will see a drop in damage but anyone who is investing heavily into it will be reaping the benefits of a massive increase. That's how it should always have worked.
Not sure what is up with DRB though? Why the decrease?
Since DRB is pretty much a pure damage power, while GW is a crowd control with damage, I think there is room for tuning. Personally, I don't really think GW needs to deal more damage, so I'd happily shave off some damage there to give it to DRB. And probably also TBR. (At least the push TBR. The push of the regular TBR makes it basically less effective as damage source, the pull version you get via that DOFF greatly benefits from it, however.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I read the patch notes and it doesn't look like it's not going to affect me too much. I am going to transfer a character to Tribble tonight and see what changes I have to make. Going to be one he'll of a patch when it hits holodeck.
Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
“Torpedo High Yield, Torpedo Spread, and Torpedo Transport Warhead now only upgrade your next torpedo attack within 10 seconds”
It means you only have 10 seconds to fire your torp after you activated the buff. Basically you couldn't double-tap anymore by holding on to your torp and firing only when your next spread or HY is off CD.
As an extra thought if I fly with 1 long cooldown torpedo and 1 torp skill wont this change mean I can no longer just hit the torp skill and wait for the torpedo to be ready to fire. Effectively I will lose the torp skill as the 10 seconds will pass before the torpedo is ready to fire. This is going hit some of my builds hard.
Why not just hit the buff when your torp is ready?
Due to bad joints I fly with all my torps on autofire and have never needed to keep a close eye on weapon cooldowns before. Tracking cooldowns closely isn’t fun and there is only so many cooldowns you can keep track off. Why is it only torpedoes, why not say Beam overload or FAW has to be used within 10 seconds of trigger.
“Torpedo High Yield, Torpedo Spread, and Torpedo Transport Warhead now only upgrade your next torpedo attack within 10 seconds”
It means you only have 10 seconds to fire your torp after you activated the buff. Basically you couldn't double-tap anymore by holding on to your torp and firing only when your next spread or HY is off CD.
As an extra thought if I fly with 1 long cooldown torpedo and 1 torp skill wont this change mean I can no longer just hit the torp skill and wait for the torpedo to be ready to fire. Effectively I will lose the torp skill as the 10 seconds will pass before the torpedo is ready to fire. This is going hit some of my builds hard.
Why not just hit the buff when your torp is ready?
Due to bad joints I fly with all my torps on autofire and have never needed to keep a close eye on weapon cooldowns before. Tracking cooldowns closely isn’t fun and there is only so many cooldowns you can keep track off. Why is it only torpedoes, why not say Beam overload or FAW has to be used within 10 seconds of trigger.
Since faw and overload duration is 10 seconds, you have to already do that.
And for the rest... not adressing the real issues but playing around with the symptoms. Will be interesting to see what you've not mentioned in the notes, yay for stealthnerfs
Here is my problem with the plasmonic leech nerf, and it's something I complained about once before, but it seems it's something not possible to do by devs. The actual power drained never equaled the power obtained. Why? The debuff and the buff are completely separate entities that can't talk to each other. It would have worked perfectly if they could have figured that stuff out (You only get buffed by the actual power you drain) and only drain captains be able to benefit the most from it, but it was too hard to do. Now instead of just lowering the scaling on the buff or fixing things, he just said "to hell with it" and nerfed it to the ground.
Not overly impressed with the tbr changes at all, and the new science ability makes my science officers in escorts have a useless ability. Seeing as they have no drain, control, or drainX stuff.
Pretty much the new change and loss of subnuc beam is forcing science officers into science ships.
I have no idea why tykens and grav well are still on a shared cooldown, as nearly everything just flies out of tykens as it is (Perhaps only in pvp).
Many of the changes are decent, like miracle worker and so forth.
But killing off some science stuff, namely tractor repulsors. Also making subnuc beam usable by everyone, destroys the whole object of being a science officer.
I can't see the reason of making Override subsystem safeties next to pointless, as five seconds means death half the time.
Perhaps actually making reroute reserves to weapons (The pilot skill) not a toggle would be a good start with some weapon enhancing powers.
Yet again sci captains have just been smashed into wasted development black hole we lost a lot of players with the delta rising TRIBBLE and I can see it again. none of this addresses high dps but sci captain and players in the 10k range are screwed again. As for making the game fun this removes any! and if by fun you mean you want pvp to work so even new players are in ball park wake up you fix pvp you break the pve element and from years in game the pvp element is extremely small to begin with. instead of this BS nerf bat you devs seem so fond of how about you actually fix some things that are broken, get the ques popping again bring back no win and mine trap as 5 player if 20 was too long. and most of all how about you devs jump in standard non maxed ships and see how most of the player base has to play and grind in the game. Most of us put a lot of money and time into a game we love and for myself I am tired of science being your kicking bag.
I have no idea why tykens and grav well are still on a shared cooldown, as nearly everything just flies out of tykens as it is (Perhaps only in pvp).
Well I will agree with you about "flying out" of a rift on holodeck right now, but it is not extreme. My rift does -26 drain per second, so it takes 3 to 4 sec of enough drain to kill the engines on most npcs so they do stay on my rift.
That said the change to rift is for the better. On tribble I get -77 drain on right away thus killing the npc with out having to wait for the full drain affect to take place.
That is pretty much the worst shared cooldown remaining in the game and left out when they went crazy removing shared cooldowns all over the place.
With that said above gw and rift should always have a shared cool down, either you drain or cc. never should be able to do both. As you know Lucho to be a great drainer you must go to the extremes, and same with CC. never should the game allow you to be a extreme drain and CC build at the same time.
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
But will be there any changes also too elite mission? Don't see anything about it. Now lot of powers are downgraded for balance. They also need too downgrade elite mission . If they want fun back and people are less powerful then before.
So Plasmonic Leech is 5x more powerful than epic consoles for power, even after the nerf? Well maybe those consoles are just super underpowered and in need of a nerf to be worth considering? Also Supremacy is still at the old values and therefore makes given argument invalid.
and grav well are still on a shared cooldown, as nearly everything just flies out of tykens as it is (Perhaps only in pvp).
That is pretty much the worst shared cooldown remaining in the game and left out when they went crazy removing shared cooldowns all over the place.
See I don't have this problem, while it's true I don't dedicate builds to drain and that if I did I might come to see things differently, I simply filled the control void for Rift using Tractor beam. Sure it's only good for one target at a time but it does stop things running away.
Also, I forgot to talk about it yesterday but hot restart is basically irrelevant with a 60 second cooldown, you can just run one copy of engineering team and clear all subsystem disables, engineering debuffs and get a hull heal every 30 seconds, or run two copies (or doffs) to do it every 15 and with DEM having it's usefulness reduced many people will have just had space made to slot eng team.
The Plasma proc on Weapon Signature Nullifiers and Amplifiers from the Fleet Embassy no longer bypasses shields, has had its damage reduced to 25% of what it was previously, and now procs per cycle instead of per shot.
lol - they should change the description to "Weapon Signature Nullifiers and Amplifiers - sell to vendor for scrap immediately!"
I guess I'll switch to the epg + control ones and that's fine - not too hard to upgrade.
Good to hear reports on GW sad to hear about TBR.
I think the idea was to take it away and then give it back for a few seconds with the deflector overcharge. So that you'll be able to do a good grav well then have to do a bad one while waiting for deflector recharge. And... I don't know why this nerf was necessary....
oh wait I do - there's obviously a plan to add more pvp to console so they felt they needed to nerf the scary and spooky science for that new pvp. OK whatever. Just leave GW alone now and we be cool.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Comments
2 things I have to add, in the spirit of "choice must be relevant" theme that these changes are having.
First Attack Pattern Alpha and Go Down Fighting should only buff weapon damage to actually mean you have choices. If they still buff All Damage then we cant talk of a choice. Its like this: Why should I play a sci to buff my sci powers (with the new Deflector Overcharge skill) or Why should I play an engie to buff my weapons (via new EPS Transfer buff) when I can play a Tac captain and have BOTH sci powers and weapons buffed via APA and GDF???
Second, I think OSS drawback it shaves off the list the usefulness of Intel powers completly. It will kill it
I'll let you read up on what those three effects do and see if you can't work out the problem yourself.
You've never listened to any other explanation I've offered. I don't really expect you to start now.
I can confirm i'm seeing similar number changes on my build too.
Aux 123/100, same build on both servers, EPG 596.
GW3: 2854.7 -> 4185.2
SSV3: 5292.1 -> 5580.3
DRB2: 2654.1 -> 1381.7
So DRB is getting hit bad but the others seem to be looking pretty good and that boost to GW is massive. Basically those slotting GW etc for a little bit of extra fun will see a drop in damage but anyone who is investing heavily into it will be reaping the benefits of a massive increase. That's how it should always have worked.
Not sure what is up with DRB though? Why the decrease?
Ok, full disclosure: I'm a dark highlord of the super sekrit council of 'Nerf BFAW NAO', but I'm gonna say it - You and I do not use the word 'slight' in even remotely the same way
B:FAW I -- 80% damage; -50% Accuracy
B:FAW II -- 85% damage; -40% Accuracy
B:FAW III -- 90% damage; -30% Accuracy
That's... dramatic.
I would still like to see a portion of the accuracy penalty only apply to small targets (hangar pets/destructible projectiles). I feel like that would do a better job of emphasizing the value of point defense tools and leverages existing Traits like Precise (+25% Accuracy vs. Small Targets).
I actually use the good day to die trait along with invincible so I am completely aware of what this means. I do enjoy the implication of ignorance though. Thanks for trying. Now you will have to excuse me, but I just find it totally hilarious how happy you are about certain nerfs while also simultaneously asking for this to be left alone. Your total glee and dismissiveness for other players attempting to discuss some of the nerfs comes off as jerkishly arrogant.
And even given a prompting, the fact you still didn't pick that up is why I dismiss YOU.
@crypticspartan#0627 was this intended? I know the GW and SSV values have been changed due to aux scaling, but DRB seems to have been left in the dust pretty badly. Are these numbers intended or is something else in the works here?
Thanks!
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I think it's funny how he referenced those + energy consoles, no one uses those because they suck and aren't worth the slot. Although I do understand that the Leech was way too powerful. Beware of must-have items I guess.
The main problem I see is that a lot of those consoles and other things that get nerfed have been around forever. They could have done something about those before everyone and their grandmother spent resources on them.
One thing I still really dislike is the change of the subnucleonic beam. It was what made the sci unique, as many have said before me. I would have preferred a buff of the photonic fleet and then that made into a boff power instead of the subnuke. So science captains could have both deflector overcharge and subnucleonic beam. Or at least have the option to choose between the abilities for when a player hits level 50 or 60. I still see not much reason to run a sci anymore, except for ground. I'd still rather have a tac in a sci ship because of tactical fleet, GDF and alpha, instead of a sci in a sci ship. And a tac would still be more versatile in terms of ships than a sci.
Since DRB is pretty much a pure damage power, while GW is a crowd control with damage, I think there is room for tuning. Personally, I don't really think GW needs to deal more damage, so I'd happily shave off some damage there to give it to DRB.
The only one that is odd is the loss of sub nuke, but hey you give some you take some.
These balance changes are a huge step in the right direction, next up is AI rework please
Since faw and overload duration is 10 seconds, you have to already do that.
And for the rest... not adressing the real issues but playing around with the symptoms. Will be interesting to see what you've not mentioned in the notes, yay for stealthnerfs
ingame: @Felisean
Pretty much the new change and loss of subnuc beam is forcing science officers into science ships.
I have no idea why tykens and grav well are still on a shared cooldown, as nearly everything just flies out of tykens as it is (Perhaps only in pvp).
Many of the changes are decent, like miracle worker and so forth.
But killing off some science stuff, namely tractor repulsors. Also making subnuc beam usable by everyone, destroys the whole object of being a science officer.
I can't see the reason of making Override subsystem safeties next to pointless, as five seconds means death half the time.
Perhaps actually making reroute reserves to weapons (The pilot skill) not a toggle would be a good start with some weapon enhancing powers.
That is pretty much the worst shared cooldown remaining in the game and left out when they went crazy removing shared cooldowns all over the place.
Well I will agree with you about "flying out" of a rift on holodeck right now, but it is not extreme. My rift does -26 drain per second, so it takes 3 to 4 sec of enough drain to kill the engines on most npcs so they do stay on my rift.
That said the change to rift is for the better. On tribble I get -77 drain on right away thus killing the npc with out having to wait for the full drain affect to take place.
With that said above gw and rift should always have a shared cool down, either you drain or cc. never should be able to do both. As you know Lucho to be a great drainer you must go to the extremes, and same with CC. never should the game allow you to be a extreme drain and CC build at the same time.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Curious if we will get a free one when this goes live?
Edit, was answered on another page by the Dev. thanks guys.
See I don't have this problem, while it's true I don't dedicate builds to drain and that if I did I might come to see things differently, I simply filled the control void for Rift using Tractor beam. Sure it's only good for one target at a time but it does stop things running away.
Also, I forgot to talk about it yesterday but hot restart is basically irrelevant with a 60 second cooldown, you can just run one copy of engineering team and clear all subsystem disables, engineering debuffs and get a hull heal every 30 seconds, or run two copies (or doffs) to do it every 15 and with DEM having it's usefulness reduced many people will have just had space made to slot eng team.
lol - they should change the description to "Weapon Signature Nullifiers and Amplifiers - sell to vendor for scrap immediately!"
I guess I'll switch to the epg + control ones and that's fine - not too hard to upgrade.
Good to hear reports on GW sad to hear about TBR.
I think the idea was to take it away and then give it back for a few seconds with the deflector overcharge. So that you'll be able to do a good grav well then have to do a bad one while waiting for deflector recharge. And... I don't know why this nerf was necessary....
oh wait I do - there's obviously a plan to add more pvp to console so they felt they needed to nerf the scary and spooky science for that new pvp. OK whatever. Just leave GW alone now and we be cool.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."