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-* Suggestion: Get Rid of Macros for Space Combat *-

There's been a lot of discussion lately about DPS and DPS related issues.

The dirty open secret of DPS in STO is that it is based on writing keyboard macros in the STO keybinds. It's not an exploit or anything, its just a thing people figured out how to do. People bind everything to space bar, maybe another key, and then press it over and over, and it automates everything: keeping your buffs up and optimal, auto targeting and firing at ships etc.

I think the game would benefit from shaking things up. If the devs disabled the ability to make these macros, a new layer of skill-based play would be added to the game. Instead of hitting space bar over and over, players would have to activate their buffs manually, which increases both immersion and engagement.

I really think it would be a shot in the arm for gameplay at the highest levels. It would upset complacency, it would give people something new to get good at, it would add dynamism to space combat.

Please lend your voices to this proposal, lets get heard!
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Comments

  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Sounds good. And while we're at it, we should also get rid of symbols in thread titles :D

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Yeah, my above post is just a joke, so hopefully no one gets their panties in a wad. That said,

    I think the game would benefit from shaking things up. If the devs disabled the ability to make these macros, a new layer of skill-based play would be added to the game. Instead of hitting space bar over and over, players would have to activate their buffs manually, which increases both immersion and engagement.

    I really think it would be a shot in the arm for gameplay at the highest levels. It would upset complacency, it would give people something new to get good at, it would add dynamism to space combat.

    Here is the problem with your logic: you think that YOUR preferred play style(no macros) should be FORCED on other people. That's not how it works. If YOU don't want to use a macro because you want things to be more "dynamic", that's completely fine. You have that choice. But there is absolutely nothing constructive about asking for someone else's choice to be removed.

    PS: I don't use macros, but I support choice, as long as no rules are being broken.

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  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    Doesn't bother me really. I can always write a pair of macros for my keyboard to replace the two keybinds I use and have written to macros on my keyboard, it's just another ten minutes of 'work' and a day of troubleshooting because Logitech gaming software is stupid and doesn't really apply commands to keys until some random unknown criteria are met.
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  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    I don't use keybinds/macros either and I don't think players should be forced to use or not use them. I like that the game presents that choice.
  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    UI is very unresponsive and laggy. It's gotten worse these last few years and macros alleviate the problem.

    Took me years to finally accept that I had to use a macro for PvP, but I have to because the UI won't register a clock input on the power tray the 1st, 2nd, sometimes even 3rd time.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    Took me years to finally accept that I had to use a macro for PvP, but I have to because the UI won't register a clock input on the power tray the 1st, 2nd, sometimes even 3rd time.

    I know right, it's horrible! Even using conventional keyboard activation can result in spamming an ability such as RSP and getting no response after eight or more presses, most annoying though is when you die as a result and it still gives you the two minute sodding cooldown.
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    I use my space bar.
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  • nickodaemusnickodaemus Member Posts: 711 Arc User
    No.

    It's an option people can use, or not. I use it, and like it. Learning how to use this has changed the game for me in a good way. The game gets "shaken up" enough with things like skill revamp, et cetera.
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    This game's UI is absolutely the worst MMO UI I've ever seen and its customization is awful. Keybinding options are incredibly basic, there is no extensibility, and it's not even themed to the game's universe. It's laggy and sloppy. Sad. And you want to take away another (basic) feature?
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    I say No. I don't use macros, but they are there and if someone wants to use them because it makes the game more enjoyable for them, then they should be allowed to do so.

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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    Well its nice to have it confirmed I'm not the last player in STO that actually does NOT use their spacebar for everything...

    Now as to the suggestion, while I like and understand the concept behind it, I can't agree with it. Many games allow macros, the problem lies not in that.

    As to UI lag, I agree its horrid, and there have been occasions it's cost me, but that's a separate issue for its own thread honestly.
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    A significant portion of high dps players do not use a spacebar macro, and many of those people would recommend against it; calling it, in fact, a thing to help players go from low to good dps, but something that can hold you back from hitting great DPS.

    Based on anecdotal observations, I think understanding how, why, and when you're activating your abilities matters more than whether or not you macro all your abilities to a key, but here's the point:

    I don't spacebar mash. I either click abilities that I want activated, or have a hotkey that activates that specific ability (and no other abilities). It didn't exactly hold me back; it's not exploitative, and it's clearly intentionally designed as such (otherwise the bind would fail to work, given that the commonly passed around ones use in-game binds, not external programs), so what's the big deal?
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  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    Newsflash, OP - it's not possible to get those insanely high DPS numbers by using so-called spacebar macro and thus no one doing those high numbers uses it. So even if devs disabled the ability to make those, absolutely nothing would change.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    I don't use macros. Each of my move is all key or click. If others want to Macro that is fine. They should use it if their choice and its allowed.

    The other game I used to play. I used macros. But it was for fun stuff. Mostly making my character yell during combat to add to it. I only did it on boss fights. So it wouldn't cause issues.
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  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    You sir are gonna make some friends....
    /sarcasm
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  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    Yeah, let's just make controller support even worse in STO.

    If they redid powers and went away from an alphabet soup of short duration buffs you need to individually click every ten seconds to a sane number of meaningful powers then they could think about getting rid of macros.
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  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    I think this would be an excellent compromise. It would immediately lower DPS across the board

    It won't. It'll probably lower the mid point but many of the really top end guys don't use keybinds.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    High DPS numbers are only a "problem" in the sense that Cryptic seemingly never intented for players to reach those outputs by either underestimating the players, players' dedication to chase numbers or by a severe lack of overview of their own game mechanics (and how they developed over the years). And now with the skill revamp, specs and traits they even put more and more bonus damage on top. This results in some players being able to literally sleepwalk through the game but it shouldn't affect the vast majority of the playerbase. I think asking for ways to artificially cripple the higher numbers isn't a good way. Instead the game had to be rebalanced fundamentally. Do we really need all those passives that increase damage or grant autoheal to non healer classes, why does Cryptic actively deconstruct variability in builds and grants basically everything to everyone "just because" and why is the only way to cope with it adding ridiculous HP sponges to missions? For example, I recently played "Fluid Dynamics" on a undergeared alt which uses mk X common items, no specs and traits (since under 50) and the boss of the mission, the Borg diamond, sports a ridiculous half a million HP when cubes before popped rather quickly. What's the point?​​
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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    Back at it with another rant, huh?

    Your argument, as always, is flawed.

    First off: Effective macros (they really aren't macros, but let's not dwell) aren't simply "bind everything to space", but rather a series of pre-setup choices. If you simply bind everything to space, you get a horrible mish-mash of low DPS output, because most of the time you burn your skills at a less useful point, than if you time them right.

    Secondly: We've already been over this several times years ago: Cryptic put this function in for a reason... They want it in and they aren't going away.

    Third: As usual, you think that your playstyle is the only way to go (basically, you keep losing because you don't want to put the effort into getting your own keybinds, and as such think everyone else should not either).

    Fourth: Let's say that they actually remove them from the game... What will that accomplish? I have a Logitech G-Series keyboard, that lets me do pretty much the same with my shortcut keys. There are TONS of Scripts and apps out there that let you create your own keyboard shortcut-commands. They work by simply adding a series of keystrokes, and as such register as if I was pressing the keys myself with no option for Cryptic to see if it's actually me, or my keyboard doing the work.

    So basically, we cut off people without these options (Buying a relatively expensive keyboard and lacking the understanding to set up apps) from this.

    With the current in-game option, at least people can get help right where they need it.

    You really need to get over your own "good" ideas and look at the bigger picture.
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  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,265 Arc User
    I still click on my icons.

    I've never understood the people who prefer to bind everything to the spacebar... to me you may as well be watching a youtube video.

    But that's just me, and everybody has their own tastes, it would be a dull world if everybody was the same.

    I remember the hilarious uproar when people requested that weapons have a 'automatic' function where you press space bar once and they will continuously fire (prior to this you had to periodically mash the space bar). When it got implemented there were various doom threads how it would destroy the game ect.

    I'm pretty sure most of those people use autofire now :dizzy:

    Anyhoo, it's just another choice of playstyle - it's no skin of my nose if people want to make macro's; it's not like PvP is viable any more, so all's they are doing is killing NPC's a bit faster.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Which said, I only bring this up as a compromise proposal for the community.

    You are not suggesting a "compromise". You are asking that your personal preference be *forced* on everyone. Calling that a "compromise" means you do not actually understand what the word means. That is like someone saying that if they don't like disco balls, they should be *removed* from the game. By your definition, that would be a "compromise".

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  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    While I also click every power I need, without using Macro's (wouldn't know how to create and use them anyway :p ) I can understand that people are using them.

    It happens quite often that the game simply won't respond to all your clickies. If you activate two or three powers and the second power takes a second to activate, it simply won't register and you'll end up activating powers 1 and 3.

    With the huge shield drains, adding multiple shield heals has become quite important. The few abilities that enemies have, are often spammed so you need to spam yours to counter it. And that's simply not always possible if half the things you click don't activate, or require two or three clicks before they work.



    And, as usual, agreed with @angrytarg . DPS needs to be adressed and balance and classes should be reworked. I know to little about macro's to determine if that would be a good starting point though. Let people use them, there are far more pressing issues.
  • deadspacex64deadspacex64 Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    what surprises me the most is this idea came from druk...and i agree...someone shoot me. never bothered with the whole keybind thing, knew about it, but had never been part of any other game i've played so didn't see how it could do anything i couldn't do myself...and i was right. out of probably nearly a hundred mmo's there has been only one other that allowed for automation, mostly it was forbidden. was frankly surprised it was part of the game itself rather than a 3rd party app like every other mmo requires and 99% of the time forbids to the point anti hack tools would actively look for macro programs running, kill them and notify the publisher and/or auto ban the user.

    not going to use them if they stay or go regardless, don't need them. but for bot makers, built in game macros are a heaven send...perhaps that's why cryptic keeps them around...bots count as users logged in too.
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  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    There's been a lot of discussion lately about DPS and DPS related issues.

    The dirty open secret of DPS in STO is that it is based on writing keyboard macros in the STO keybinds. It's not an exploit or anything, its just a thing people figured out how to do. People bind everything to space bar, maybe another key, and then press it over and over, and it automates everything: keeping your buffs up and optimal, auto targeting and firing at ships etc.

    I think the game would benefit from shaking things up. If the devs disabled the ability to make these macros, a new layer of skill-based play would be added to the game. Instead of hitting space bar over and over, players would have to activate their buffs manually, which increases both immersion and engagement.

    I really think it would be a shot in the arm for gameplay at the highest levels. It would upset complacency, it would give people something new to get good at, it would add dynamism to space combat.

    Please lend your voices to this proposal, lets get heard!

    /rofl frack no. If anything then this game needs a proper macro language. Lua (as industry standard) or Python or even a proprietary one. Anything really...

    The best would be of course rewrite the whole UI in Scaleform thus killing 2 birds with 1 stone...
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