Quoted, after all. :P But not going to hold you to it.
Still, can someone confirm please that 'shunt' has these EPS-kind qualities of restoring power faster after a Full Impulse drain? (And not just keeps your power levels at a higher minimum) Cuz that's really kind of a big deal to me (for which I normally use EPS). If so, this really might be worth investing in.
Test run using a 'base' KDF toon with the initial BoP and it's standard issue equipment (deflector, shields, engine and core)
(I would totally use the table BB code here, but it's disabled...)
Basically I did a run with a stopwatch to confirm I wasn't miscounting ticks
With no EPS, power drop and return was 18 seconds total
With 2x invested into EPS, 9 seconds both ways
Shunt however didn't change the speed of transfer, but it did set the floor for subsystem power to 25 (for all subsystems which were over 25 before FI was engaged) and the ceiling for engine power to 125, which resulted in it taking a second longer to finish transferring power due to the extra range.
Conclusion; does exactly what it says on the tin, exactly the same way that Driver Coil used to, though obviously with less variation on range.
Sidenote; the added 25 engine power resulted in an increase of 5 speed and 5 degrees/ps turn. At base then, 5 engine power = 1 speed & 1 degree/ps. This also appears to hold true outside of FI and at lower power levels, though that will vary depending upon the type of engine you use (combat/balanced/hyper). Which in turn means that where Driver Coil gave you additional turn and speed at Full Impulse, above just having the boost from power, 'Shunt' doesn't.
I add that as there's nothing anywhere telling us what to expect from power increases. To clarify, 'Subsystem Performance' skills still only tell us that the skill will result in 'x' power boost, which while more information than we were given previously, there's nothing to give us any indication of what the power boost will yield in terms of effective performance. Yeah, I know, there are other factors, but we can work out how those actually interact elsewhere, we know that's too much to put into a tooltip on its own.
How much do I wish I could use both skill systems interchangeably on Tribble right now so I could do some actual side-by-side testing or at least have both old and new skill values shown clearly...
Here's another one of my worries, and this seems to confirm it to some degree.
With the move to higher returns for skill investments away from subsystem power, with less flexibility in where we can put our points in order to get those power figures, those people who can't get that power level or those skills are facing another facet of value shift in their builds. Also, this again shows another aspect where the old skill tree could've been given updated information to tell people how much power a 'performance skill' would grant them instead of requiring a third party source who likely spent hours in various tests to discover all the formulae which went into it.
Speaking of which...
I went on to check the Impulse Expertise using what I outlined above because that tool top made no real sense to me, specifically:
To find your modifiable base speed value, subtract 5 from your currently displayed speed
Really? Where? Obviously not your throttle, but does a new player know that? How about the stats tab under the status window, though I'm not even convinced that's the figure you want used either to be honest since that only displays the maximum speed available without using full impulse. Also, that's the base speed (if you can find it to work it out), what's the base turn then?
Now, the bit at the bottom is so straight forward, I love it, it makes sense out of everything else there, but it also made me wonder if if a) it's that simple or b) the above applies to turn as well, and if it did, would the returns come back to confirm its simplicity? I mean, ImpulseX Lvl 1 should yield a straight 20% (effective modifier of x1.2 - for clarity) on top to speed and turn, right?
Well, I decided to make mine a very sick bird of prey, and set it to spin... Vomit Comet of the KDF is go!
For absolute clarity there were no traits, active abilities or item modifiers of any sort present in exactly the way I outlined above, and at Engine power of 25 I had 10 speed and 28 degrees turn to start with and no ImpulseX. Literally this was just to see how ImpulseX applied on it's own, and along with engine power, that's all that changed here.
I expected 12 speed and 33.6 degrees turn with the first point investment, because initial values x1.2 but instead, I received 12speed and 32.6 degrees turn.
I timed 1080 degrees in constant turn for all iterations, and discovered it's displaying correctly at the lower (i.e. unexpected) turn rate.
At ImpulseX II, I expected 13.4 and 37.52 (now at x1.34 as 34% boost going by tooltip), again speed showed as expected however turn was 35.8. This lead to a more noticeable and quantifiable difference when using a 1080 turn to test, again, displaying correctly at the unexpected rate.
ImpulseX III gave 14 speed as predicted (x1.4 as 40% boost as per tooltip), 37.2 turn instead of 39.2, which again, followed when I tested manually and was again, easier to notice due to the larger difference.
Good news time! The difference between the value I expected and what came back multiplied up by power exactly, so there's a pattern. Differences were 1 with ImpulseX I, 1.72 with ImpulseX II, and 2 with ImpulseX III at 25 power. This was doubled at 50 power, tripled at 75 power and quadrupled at 100 power.
Bad news time. I get the feeling that I'm missing something incredibly obvious here. Could someone please confirm that this is broken or that I am?
Wow! Thanks for the very in-depth, extensive research! Most useful!
Shield power doesn't have any effect on regeneration, it effects shield hardness. If you put your shield power all the way up to 125, you get 25% damage reduction.
If you put 3 points into the shield hardness skill, that increases it to 50% damage reduction.
Actually, if that still mirrors Holodeck even to a mild degree, shield power has always increased regeneration. 50 shield power = 100% regen rate of the shield, and for each power point + - from there, there's a 4% recharge difference.
From what I remember of the new Tribble skill, the effectiveness of the power subsystem is reduced in favour of granting a larger effect from skill investment.
EDIT - Just to add this for completeness.
50 shield power = Standard regeneration
25 shield power = Half regeneration
100 shield power = Double regeneration
125 shield power = Triple regeneration
Obviously the exact value of regeneration also has to take into account the shield type and it's intrinsic modifiers, before it's actual item modifiers...
Resists are a whole other thing for which there used to be a table somewhere on the old forums, which I have no idea how to get to now. I remember it was a simple formula like 'shield power/x = resist percentage from shield power'.
I just hopped on to Holodeck to check that out. This is what I'm seeing.
It's broken. You're right, it doesn't move, it copies the information from your shield tooltip and then sticks. I just went into Ker'rat (props to Taz@kdfagenda for giving me a couple of minutes to test), got plastered by probes and then watched the tick values come back into my shields.
At 51/15 power I was seeing near exactly the expected amount displayed (420.9 shield/6seconds) however when I increased power (94/70), the stats figure and tooltip figure remained the same while the actual figure being returned to my shields was closer to 1200 points per facing. All of this was out of combat, though that shouldn't make any difference as shield regen doesn't change between combat/non-combat.
Yay! We found a Holodeck bug while on Tribble!
My brain's melting from that engine stuff earlier, will test this particular shield thing on Tribble tomorrow unless someone else gets there first...
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
Also, since it's apparently playing on my brain, I messed up my little explanation of how shield power works with regeneration. It should be:
25 shield power = Half regeneration
50 shield power = Standard regeneration
75 shield power = Double regeneration
100 shield power = Triple regeneration
125... Actually, I don't know. I do know that resists feature heavily at 100+ shield power, but there's nothing to actually give us stats on that directly, even in the old stats window. I'd have to start parsing combat logs to a heavy degree in addition to waiting for the stats tab to be fixed... So, y'know, after it's all released anyway...
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
I once had the formula for shield resists written down in a forum thread, but that thread predates at least two major forum changes, and was no longer updateable.
I think it worked out to something like 35 % resists at 125 shield power or so? (shield power/357.12)
But that has no effect on regeneration.
The values on Tribble should be noted in either a patch note or the tool tip for the Shield Hardness skill.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
In all this talk of nerfs and buffs and making skills easier for new players to understand, why has no one pointed out that they still don't explain anywhere in the game to a new player what anything actually DOES. Short tooltip discriptions don't really convey to a person who has no idea of this game's mechanics what each skill is about.
I don't think the devs have the time to do an equation dump to give a detailed explaination of what everything does. There used to be a personal website that had every ability and how skills benefited them. The wiki works, but with this skill revamp, a lot of the work done explaining abilities with equations goes out the window.
Maybe a group of us could get together and make an Excel calculator after the revamp is complete. Players put in power levels and skills and see the results.
It would be more productive to have the information now for testing before the changes go live.
You new here?
Slightly off-topic, did anyone else have trouble slotting BOFFs after the most recent patch? I hadn't slotted them on my Krenim Sci Vessel before I copied my character over and it wouldn't let me do it on Tribble... no stations were even visible to slot. Ditto for small ship. Zoning didn't help. I switched to a different ship and it preserved my stations on that ship (albeit not my trays).
Might have something to do with the UI redesign on the BOFF station layout.
Can't test what I can't slot. I'll have to try slotting on Holodeck and then recopy my character and see what happens.
...Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?
Good one.
Back on the topic, is there any chance we will see a "confirm selections" button? I really don't care for this UI and having my selection committed the instant I click on it.
Bort talked about that on the P1 podcast last week. He called it "paging," and said they wanted to put it in but it caused more problems. I'm assuming it caused the invalid skills bug and the skills won't save bug in the old skill system.
I hadn't slotted them on my Krenim Sci Vessel before I copied my character over and it wouldn't let me do it on Tribble... no stations were even visible to slot. Ditto for small ship. Zoning didn't help. I switched to a different ship and it preserved my stations on that ship (albeit not my trays).
This is a fairly common Tribble bug, related to character data transfers. Usually swapping ships, and back again, fixes the issue.
And no, tray information isn't transferred. You need to rebuild that on Tribble.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
And no, tray information isn't transferred. You need to rebuild that on Tribble.
Tray information doesn't appear to be stored in Tribble either. I have to rebuild my trays whenever I log in even after I re-save my loadouts at Tribble.
But this isn't the place to discuss that.
@borticuscryptic any hope that we shift the skill UI to a horizontal layout? With most screens at 16:9, a horizontal layout will be better especially for smaller screens (like my my 14" laptop).
Not new here, with 705 posts just here not including time in Champions Online as well. I just don't participate as much because I'm not interested in arguing and protecting sacred cows. What I AM interested in is accurate and unbiased presentation of facts so I can judge whether my time spent in game is justifiable. So if I am to sacrifice RL time to trouble shoot a game free of charge I want the needed information so all the whining, conjecture, and phony pseudo calculations go away and there is less time on my part reading erroneous arguments.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
In the end, it is likely that Plasmonic Leech will have its effectiveness impacted by this Skill Revamp, and nobody will be happy about it - not the players that may have invested so heavily in obtaining it and building around it, nor the developers who will take the heat for a change that clearly needs to happen. The current values you see on Tribble aren't final, but I can pretty much guarantee that it won't end up doing everything that it previously did.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
I not once called Leech overpowered. I simply said that it was dominating conversations and decision making processes amongst the community.
Furthermore, the options you are calling out as "alternatives" are just as dominant of those same conversations. Indicating not that they are examples of balanced choices, but other outliers just like Leech itself.
I take it they'll all be getting the nerf bat then by your working?
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Really? Where? Obviously not your throttle, but does a new player know that? How about the stats tab under the status window, though I'm not even convinced that's the figure you want used either to be honest since that only displays the maximum speed available without using full impulse. Also, that's the base speed (if you can find it to work it out), what's the base turn then?
Now, the bit at the bottom is so straight forward, I love it, it makes sense out of everything else there, but it also made me wonder if if a) it's that simple or b) the above applies to turn as well, and if it did, would the returns come back to confirm its simplicity? I mean, ImpulseX Lvl 1 should yield a straight 20% (effective modifier of x1.2 - for clarity) on top to speed and turn, right?
Well, I decided to make mine a very sick bird of prey, and set it to spin... Vomit Comet of the KDF is go!
For absolute clarity there were no traits, active abilities or item modifiers of any sort present in exactly the way I outlined above, and at Engine power of 25 I had 10 speed and 28 degrees turn to start with and no ImpulseX. Literally this was just to see how ImpulseX applied on it's own, and along with engine power, that's all that changed here.
I expected 12 speed and 33.6 degrees turn with the first point investment, because initial values x1.2 but instead, I received 12speed and 32.6 degrees turn.
I timed 1080 degrees in constant turn for all iterations, and discovered it's displaying correctly at the lower (i.e. unexpected) turn rate.
At ImpulseX II, I expected 13.4 and 37.52 (now at x1.34 as 34% boost going by tooltip), again speed showed as expected however turn was 35.8. This lead to a more noticeable and quantifiable difference when using a 1080 turn to test, again, displaying correctly at the unexpected rate.
ImpulseX III gave 14 speed as predicted (x1.4 as 40% boost as per tooltip), 37.2 turn instead of 39.2, which again, followed when I tested manually and was again, easier to notice due to the larger difference.
Good news time! The difference between the value I expected and what came back multiplied up by power exactly, so there's a pattern. Differences were 1 with ImpulseX I, 1.72 with ImpulseX II, and 2 with ImpulseX III at 25 power. This was doubled at 50 power, tripled at 75 power and quadrupled at 100 power.
Bad news time. I get the feeling that I'm missing something incredibly obvious here. Could someone please confirm that this is broken or that I am?
It's actually quite simple: your base turn rate is the one listed for the ship in the shipyards, on the wiki, etc.. Your impulse skill boosts your final turn rate by up to 40% of that (0.4% per point of skill, each node gives +50/85/100 total skill), regardless of power level (for any B'rel, with a base turn of 23, this is +9.2 turn rate at 100 skill), the exact same way RCS works.
Power levels and the [Turn] engine mod, however, operate based on the (Base-3) figure that was also used for RCS and the skill before Legacy of Romulus. Each point of Engine power grants +1% of that Base-3, and [Turn] mods give +10% each. By increasing your Engine power from 50 to 100, your turn rate increased from 33 (23 + 50 * 0.01 * (23-3)) to 43 (23 + 100 * 0.01 * (23-3)), and adding Impulse 3 put in another +9.2 on top. All flat turn rate bonuses (i.e. Battle Cloak and some set bonuses, particularly Cruiser sets) are also added in at the end.
This is the same functionality as on Holodeck, other than that Holodeck's Impulse Thruster skill scales worse (+38% at 99 skill on T5/6 ships, less on lower tiers).
Speed math gets a little more complex when you're also dealing with different engine types, so I haven't yet calculated the details on how those work...
...Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?
Good one.
Back on the topic, is there any chance we will see a "confirm selections" button? I really don't care for this UI and having my selection committed the instant I click on it.
Bort talked about that on the P1 podcast last week. He called it "paging," and said they wanted to put it in but it caused more problems. I'm assuming it caused the invalid skills bug and the skills won't save bug in the old skill system.
That's too bad, it means no matter how good they do with the rest of it, it's still broken. It's cumbersome, requires too many clicks to get the job done, and is nothing but a huge step backwards. It's sad that such poor interface design even made it past the drawing board.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
Well, I think my Rom isn't getting as nice a turn rate on Tribble as she does on Holodeck, I am still trying to figure out what skill setting I have messed up.
Strange thing is: she has zero in Driver Coil and zero in Starship Impulse Thrusters on Holodeck. I attempted to copy that on Tribble... with no more Driver Coil skill listed (just bits and pieces in places) that was a no brainer and zero placed in Impulse Expertise.
The speed is OK...it has something to do with turn rate. I am moving the throttle up or down and it doesn't help. I guess, I need to play around some more....but is anyone else seeing anything weird like this?
I am so far behind on reading this thread...108 posts?
No way I am catching up on that.
Additionally,I can tell you I am noticing this because: Rom is a Sci character, in a Risian corvette with cannons and torps. I really shouldn't be having problems getting the cannons or sci captain skills in the proper arc. I just seem to be fighting against something, constantly on Tribble.
I am gonna go try messing with a respec
++++++++++
Updating this a bit:
On respec....removed the point in "Warp Core Efficiency" on Tribble and finally matched the numbers for Flight Speed and Turn Rate to Holodeck. The thing is: she has 6 points in Warp Core Efficiency on Holodeck. But nothing on Tribble.
I am confused.
Post edited by where2r1 on
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Not new here, with 705 posts just here not including time in Champions Online as well. I just don't participate as much because I'm not interested in arguing and protecting sacred cows. What I AM interested in is accurate and unbiased presentation of facts so I can judge whether my time spent in game is justifiable. So if I am to sacrifice RL time to trouble shoot a game free of charge I want the needed information so all the whining, conjecture, and phony pseudo calculations go away and there is less time on my part reading erroneous arguments.
No offense intended. Just that I've never seen the Devs provide those kinds of numbers on that kind of scale for any major changes and I don't expect them to start now. For lots of reasons, some of which are valid considerations.
Whenever we see a lot of detailed math crunching, it has come from members of the community who have the skills to do it. But they're going to need lots of time and testing to come up with them.
...Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?
Good one.
Back on the topic, is there any chance we will see a "confirm selections" button? I really don't care for this UI and having my selection committed the instant I click on it.
Bort talked about that on the P1 podcast last week. He called it "paging," and said they wanted to put it in but it caused more problems. I'm assuming it caused the invalid skills bug and the skills won't save bug in the old skill system.
That's too bad, it means no matter how good they do with the rest of it, it's still broken.
I hadn't slotted them on my Krenim Sci Vessel before I copied my character over and it wouldn't let me do it on Tribble... no stations were even visible to slot. Ditto for small ship. Zoning didn't help. I switched to a different ship and it preserved my stations on that ship (albeit not my trays).
This is a fairly common Tribble bug, related to character data transfers. Usually swapping ships, and back again, fixes the issue.
And no, tray information isn't transferred. You need to rebuild that on Tribble.
@borticuscryptic any hope that we shift the skill UI to a horizontal layout? With most screens at 16:9, a horizontal layout will be better especially for smaller screens (like my my 14" laptop).
It was built vertically in order to align with the Specialization Trees, which are also vertical. If we were ever to change it, we'd change both at the same time.
But that's not terribly likely to happen in the short term, since we still have minimum requirements to consider... the UI is built to fit in a relatively small window, which is 4:3 ratio. And before you ask, the subject of increasing STO's minimum requirements is a business decision well above my ability to discuss, so not really open for public debate at the moment.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Hey, just a heads-up guys, I'm going to replace this thread with a new one when our next build goes to Tribble, later this week. This one is getting unwieldy, and the next patch will invalidate some of the feedback it contains (addressed, or no longer applicable). This thread will be locked and un-stickied at that time.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
That's too bad, it means no matter how good they do with the rest of it, it's still broken. It's cumbersome, requires too many clicks to get the job done, and is nothing but a huge step backwards. It's sad that such poor interface design even made it past the drawing board.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it "broken", however I will agree that it's cumbersome and a step backwards. This is one of the many reasons I've never cared for "tree" UI designs for skills. Just personal preference here, but I shouldn't need pen, paper and calculator handy to pick skills. The UI should be capable of conveying all that information to me on one screen.
And perhaps I am indulging in a little to much hyperbole, but this seems to be bothering me more than anything else in this revamp.
I mean, I usually fly science ships and yet this bit of the UI seems to be the windmill I'm determined to tilt at.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
Hey, just a heads-up guys, I'm going to replace this thread with a new one when our next build goes to Tribble, later this week. This one is getting unwieldy, and the next patch will invalidate some of the feedback it contains (addressed, or no longer applicable). This thread will be locked and un-stickied at that time.
That's interesting. I'm looking forward to the changes and I hope to see some positive stuff coming in there too.
Thank you bort, I would also like to reiterate the others and say if there's any way to make it where we don't have to buy every point one at a time that would be a huge QOL improvement. And so far that's my only complaint about the new system.
Hey, just a heads-up guys, I'm going to replace this thread with a new one when our next build goes to Tribble, later this week. This one is getting unwieldy, and the next patch will invalidate some of the feedback it contains (addressed, or no longer applicable). This thread will be locked and un-stickied at that time.
Understood Bort, will make things easier
in the long run for everyone
Hey, just a heads-up guys, I'm going to replace this thread with a new one when our next build goes to Tribble, later this week. This one is getting unwieldy, and the next patch will invalidate some of the feedback it contains (addressed, or no longer applicable). This thread will be locked and un-stickied at that time.
Just a thought, does the original Revamp thread still need to be open? Might be better to consolidate both threads to the new one.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
Having real trouble recreating my build. A lot of the stats are 1 to 2% lower on tribble which I am putting down to gear not being updated yet so not listing here. The big ones though are
Hull resistance gone from 22.7% down to -2.5%
Crit chance gone from 24.4% down to 18.4%
Crt Severity gone from 105% down to 90%
Lost around 500 to 1000 damage per weapon. (Torps and mines)
I've seen the hull resistance negative modifier when flying the T6 Kor and reduced to standard (5%) on the T6 Fed flagships as well. It occurs sometimes when entering a map or being at full stop for a few minutes. Accelerating brings it back to what the value is supposed to be.
@borticuscryptic , as much as I like the new system, I think the cooldown choices at admiral level are bad. There's already ways in the game to get a better return that the newer players might not know about, such as the krenim boffs, t6 ship traits, photonic officer, certain duty officers, equipment such as the bioneural gel pack, etc. I don't know what alternates are on the board currently, but here's a few:
Eng: reduce time when subsystems are offline or increased mine effectiveness (radius? speed? add DoT? more per deployment?)
Sci: increase sensor scan effectiveness or subsystem targeting success rate
Tac: increase weapon haste
Comments
Wow! Thanks for the very in-depth, extensive research! Most useful!
It's broken. You're right, it doesn't move, it copies the information from your shield tooltip and then sticks. I just went into Ker'rat (props to Taz@kdfagenda for giving me a couple of minutes to test), got plastered by probes and then watched the tick values come back into my shields.
At 51/15 power I was seeing near exactly the expected amount displayed (420.9 shield/6seconds) however when I increased power (94/70), the stats figure and tooltip figure remained the same while the actual figure being returned to my shields was closer to 1200 points per facing. All of this was out of combat, though that shouldn't make any difference as shield regen doesn't change between combat/non-combat.
Yay! We found a Holodeck bug while on Tribble!
My brain's melting from that engine stuff earlier, will test this particular shield thing on Tribble tomorrow unless someone else gets there first...
Stop new content until quality returns
25 shield power = Half regeneration
50 shield power = Standard regeneration
75 shield power = Double regeneration
100 shield power = Triple regeneration
125... Actually, I don't know. I do know that resists feature heavily at 100+ shield power, but there's nothing to actually give us stats on that directly, even in the old stats window. I'd have to start parsing combat logs to a heavy degree in addition to waiting for the stats tab to be fixed... So, y'know, after it's all released anyway...
Stop new content until quality returns
I think it worked out to something like 35 % resists at 125 shield power or so? (shield power/357.12)
But that has no effect on regeneration.
The values on Tribble should be noted in either a patch note or the tool tip for the Shield Hardness skill.
I don't think the devs have the time to do an equation dump to give a detailed explaination of what everything does. There used to be a personal website that had every ability and how skills benefited them. The wiki works, but with this skill revamp, a lot of the work done explaining abilities with equations goes out the window.
Maybe a group of us could get together and make an Excel calculator after the revamp is complete. Players put in power levels and skills and see the results.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
You new here?
Slightly off-topic, did anyone else have trouble slotting BOFFs after the most recent patch? I hadn't slotted them on my Krenim Sci Vessel before I copied my character over and it wouldn't let me do it on Tribble... no stations were even visible to slot. Ditto for small ship. Zoning didn't help. I switched to a different ship and it preserved my stations on that ship (albeit not my trays).
Might have something to do with the UI redesign on the BOFF station layout.
Can't test what I can't slot. I'll have to try slotting on Holodeck and then recopy my character and see what happens.
Bort talked about that on the P1 podcast last week. He called it "paging," and said they wanted to put it in but it caused more problems. I'm assuming it caused the invalid skills bug and the skills won't save bug in the old skill system.
This is a fairly common Tribble bug, related to character data transfers. Usually swapping ships, and back again, fixes the issue.
And no, tray information isn't transferred. You need to rebuild that on Tribble.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Tray information doesn't appear to be stored in Tribble either. I have to rebuild my trays whenever I log in even after I re-save my loadouts at Tribble.
But this isn't the place to discuss that.
@borticuscryptic any hope that we shift the skill UI to a horizontal layout? With most screens at 16:9, a horizontal layout will be better especially for smaller screens (like my my 14" laptop).
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
You new here?
Not new here, with 705 posts just here not including time in Champions Online as well. I just don't participate as much because I'm not interested in arguing and protecting sacred cows. What I AM interested in is accurate and unbiased presentation of facts so I can judge whether my time spent in game is justifiable. So if I am to sacrifice RL time to trouble shoot a game free of charge I want the needed information so all the whining, conjecture, and phony pseudo calculations go away and there is less time on my part reading erroneous arguments.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
I take it they'll all be getting the nerf bat then by your working?
It's actually quite simple: your base turn rate is the one listed for the ship in the shipyards, on the wiki, etc.. Your impulse skill boosts your final turn rate by up to 40% of that (0.4% per point of skill, each node gives +50/85/100 total skill), regardless of power level (for any B'rel, with a base turn of 23, this is +9.2 turn rate at 100 skill), the exact same way RCS works.
Power levels and the [Turn] engine mod, however, operate based on the (Base-3) figure that was also used for RCS and the skill before Legacy of Romulus. Each point of Engine power grants +1% of that Base-3, and [Turn] mods give +10% each. By increasing your Engine power from 50 to 100, your turn rate increased from 33 (23 + 50 * 0.01 * (23-3)) to 43 (23 + 100 * 0.01 * (23-3)), and adding Impulse 3 put in another +9.2 on top. All flat turn rate bonuses (i.e. Battle Cloak and some set bonuses, particularly Cruiser sets) are also added in at the end.
This is the same functionality as on Holodeck, other than that Holodeck's Impulse Thruster skill scales worse (+38% at 99 skill on T5/6 ships, less on lower tiers).
Speed math gets a little more complex when you're also dealing with different engine types, so I haven't yet calculated the details on how those work...
That's too bad, it means no matter how good they do with the rest of it, it's still broken. It's cumbersome, requires too many clicks to get the job done, and is nothing but a huge step backwards. It's sad that such poor interface design even made it past the drawing board.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
Strange thing is: she has zero in Driver Coil and zero in Starship Impulse Thrusters on Holodeck. I attempted to copy that on Tribble... with no more Driver Coil skill listed (just bits and pieces in places) that was a no brainer and zero placed in Impulse Expertise.
The speed is OK...it has something to do with turn rate. I am moving the throttle up or down and it doesn't help. I guess, I need to play around some more....but is anyone else seeing anything weird like this?
I am so far behind on reading this thread...108 posts?
No way I am catching up on that.
Additionally,I can tell you I am noticing this because: Rom is a Sci character, in a Risian corvette with cannons and torps. I really shouldn't be having problems getting the cannons or sci captain skills in the proper arc. I just seem to be fighting against something, constantly on Tribble.
I am gonna go try messing with a respec
++++++++++
Updating this a bit:
On respec....removed the point in "Warp Core Efficiency" on Tribble and finally matched the numbers for Flight Speed and Turn Rate to Holodeck. The thing is: she has 6 points in Warp Core Efficiency on Holodeck. But nothing on Tribble.
I am confused.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
No offense intended. Just that I've never seen the Devs provide those kinds of numbers on that kind of scale for any major changes and I don't expect them to start now. For lots of reasons, some of which are valid considerations.
Whenever we see a lot of detailed math crunching, it has come from members of the community who have the skills to do it. But they're going to need lots of time and testing to come up with them.
Seriously? No it doesn't...
Thanks. I appreciate the reply.
It was built vertically in order to align with the Specialization Trees, which are also vertical. If we were ever to change it, we'd change both at the same time.
But that's not terribly likely to happen in the short term, since we still have minimum requirements to consider... the UI is built to fit in a relatively small window, which is 4:3 ratio. And before you ask, the subject of increasing STO's minimum requirements is a business decision well above my ability to discuss, so not really open for public debate at the moment.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
- Tac Team ability seems underperforming on Tribble compared to Holodeck. (50% less)
- All things that boost attack patterns on Holodeck such as e.g. the ROM Engine seem not to work on Tribble.
- And already mentioned before by people as well the leech console does not work as effective even if skilled to maximum and using embassy consoles.
Please have a look, thank you.Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
And perhaps I am indulging in a little to much hyperbole, but this seems to be bothering me more than anything else in this revamp.
I mean, I usually fly science ships and yet this bit of the UI seems to be the windmill I'm determined to tilt at.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
That's interesting. I'm looking forward to the changes and I hope to see some positive stuff coming in there too.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
in the long run for everyone
Just a thought, does the original Revamp thread still need to be open? Might be better to consolidate both threads to the new one.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
I've seen the hull resistance negative modifier when flying the T6 Kor and reduced to standard (5%) on the T6 Fed flagships as well. It occurs sometimes when entering a map or being at full stop for a few minutes. Accelerating brings it back to what the value is supposed to be.
@borticuscryptic , as much as I like the new system, I think the cooldown choices at admiral level are bad. There's already ways in the game to get a better return that the newer players might not know about, such as the krenim boffs, t6 ship traits, photonic officer, certain duty officers, equipment such as the bioneural gel pack, etc. I don't know what alternates are on the board currently, but here's a few:
Eng: reduce time when subsystems are offline or increased mine effectiveness (radius? speed? add DoT? more per deployment?)
Sci: increase sensor scan effectiveness or subsystem targeting success rate
Tac: increase weapon haste