When the blog talks about the removal of the Attack Patterns Skill this is not talking about the Abilities that Bridge Officers can learn (and get slotted on your ships), nor any effect on any Abilities that get triggered by activating those Bridge Officer Abilities (such as Pilot-Attack Pattern Expertise, or the Attack Pattern Duty Officers).
This is strictly retiring the Skill that previously allowed those Abilities to scale in effectiveness.
Does that clarify matters at all?
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Soooo... if I'm understanding this correctly, the current system allows a massive amount of flexibility in that you can take a little of everything or a lot of just certain things and have total control over your skills with almost no dependencies.
Now the new system blows that all to hell and you're only going to be able to take half of the available skills, and then have a bunch of others activated as "passives" whether you want them or not. Uh-huh. Y'know the problem with skill trees? You inevitably have to [modded] valuable and limited points on TRIBBLE you don't want in order to unlock the one skill you do. We don't have that problem now. Thanks for bringing back this archaic and antiquated way of choosing skills.
Another revamp that will gimp the hell out of us despite your repeated assurance that you're not actually gimping the hell out of us. I look forward to the inevitable grind that will result from the imbalance and invalidation of gear we've spent YEARS earning. Nothing earns favor from your playerbase like a giant slap in the face.
Hey, how is that XP curve revamp from level 50 to 60 coming along? Y'know, the one you said you weren't going to mess with, then did, and then said you were going to normalize, but didn't?
I don't see why people are arguing that it'll be cookie cutter- as if that's not what' happening now. There's always going to be people who understand the system better and/or test longer and harder than the average player, and there will always be people that copy them because they don't want to dig down that deep into the mechanics. The real test is will multiple similarly desirable configuration emerge? Ultimately the number of different skill effects appears to be going UP not down, even if the commitment to those effects is more granular than the current "1-9 in three tiers of diminishing returns". Some of those effects that have been revealed are direct counters to issues we see in game every day (e.g. beam vs. cannon drop off, antiproton dominance). It's also clearly focused on having a normalizing effect on raw DPS output between 'picked it because it sounded cool' and carefully copied from the dark masters of the internet builds which puts more emphasis on actually play skill and a tighter range of expected output for content Developers to work with. Just check out the discussion of the new destroyers in Time and Tide. There's a learning curve for everybody, but super-DPS BRAW boats are killing them so fast they don't even see the new mechanics while more pedestrian ship are getting mulched learning the fights.
Will you have to spend points on some things you're not directly craving to unlock other things? Sure. But it's pretty obvious this system is modeled closely on the Specializations, and those clusters were no deeper than 3 and often quite wide after picking up an access node/skill.
And if there are lock boxes to open up new nodes like the genetic sequencers in game right now, at least those nodes will be luring points out of other choices and there will be some semblance of tradeoffs and opportunity costs.
Just keep in mind, it's all about how they can monetize the hell out of this game. They just screwed over the Neverwinter community on XBox and are getting ready do the same thing to the PC community tomorrow.
-Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.
-I am one of the many victims from the hijacked Caspian Division.
I will not let the childish acts of a criminal ruin this game for me.
-The actions of Cryptic, on the other hand......
Has anyone asked how this affects the Specialization system or is there no need?
Does not affect it
Explain how this will not affect the specialization tree when the Pilot tree has attack patterns in it.
Pilot line has no Attack Patterns in it. What it has is a Temp Hull point on using Attack Pattern, as in your Bridge officer Ability
I was talking about the skill system change affecting the specialization system, i.e. a specialization point is used to gain a buff from attack patterns. Try to be less focused on the particulars and keep up.
Again Bridge Officers Abilities are not changing, the specialization system is not effected.
Bridge Officers Abilities?!? LOL. What are you on?! We're talking about the personal Specialization tree here! Try and keep up, please!
Really, the guy asked about the Specialization Tree, the pilot line, Attack Pattern Exp. The NEW SKILL SYSTEM, will not effect anything withe the Specialization System, as the Attack Pattern Exp is based off of BO Abilities, not anything on the skill system
Perhaps you should keep up with the thread and what is said
LOL. And the Boffs' Attack Pattern strength is based off of YOUR Attack Pattern skill! :P Hahaha! (Or did you think your Boffs just do a gratuitous max Attack Pattern, without you having to spec in Attack Pattern?!)
When the blog talks about the removal of the Attack Patterns Skill this is not talking about the Abilities that Bridge Officers can learn (and get slotted on your ships), nor any effect on any Abilities that get triggered by activating those Bridge Officer Abilities (such as Pilot-Attack Pattern Expertise, or the Attack Pattern Duty Officers).
This is strictly retiring the Skill that previously allowed those Abilities to scale in effectiveness.
Does that clarify matters at all?
Yup, I understood no boff Attack Pattern abilities (or any other boff ability, for that matter) will be removed. However, to stick to the example, since the strength of your boff's Attack Pattern is based off of YOUR Attack Pattern skill, then this begs the question what will happen to the effectiveness of your boff's Attack Pattern ability, when the corresponding player skill has been removed.
Has anyone asked how this affects the Specialization system or is there no need?
Does not affect it
Explain how this will not affect the specialization tree when the Pilot tree has attack patterns in it.
Pilot line has no Attack Patterns in it. What it has is a Temp Hull point on using Attack Pattern, as in your Bridge officer Ability
I was talking about the skill system change affecting the specialization system, i.e. a specialization point is used to gain a buff from attack patterns. Try to be less focused on the particulars and keep up.
Again Bridge Officers Abilities are not changing, the specialization system is not effected.
Bridge Officers Abilities?!? LOL. What are you on?! We're talking about the personal Specialization tree here! Try and keep up, please!
Really, the guy asked about the Specialization Tree, the pilot line, Attack Pattern Exp. The NEW SKILL SYSTEM, will not effect anything withe the Specialization System, as the Attack Pattern Exp is based off of BO Abilities, not anything on the skill system
Perhaps you should keep up with the thread and what is said
LOL. And the Boffs' Attack Pattern strength is based off of YOUR Attack Pattern skill! :P Hahaha! (Or did you think your Boffs just do a gratuitous max Attack Pattern, without you having to spec in Attack Pattern?!)
Again, like I said, try and keep up, please!
Again the guy asked about the Specialization System, if you cant keep up and read, then perhaps that is a you problem
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
When the blog talks about the removal of the Attack Patterns Skill this is not talking about the Abilities that Bridge Officers can learn (and get slotted on your ships), nor any effect on any Abilities that get triggered by activating those Bridge Officer Abilities (such as Pilot-Attack Pattern Expertise, or the Attack Pattern Duty Officers).
This is strictly retiring the Skill that previously allowed those Abilities to scale in effectiveness.
Does that clarify matters at all?
Does that meant he Attack Pattern abilities will be adjusted to be slightly more powerful to compensate or will they just stay at the current level with 0 points in that skill?
When the blog talks about the removal of the Attack Patterns Skill this is not talking about the Abilities that Bridge Officers can learn (and get slotted on your ships), nor any effect on any Abilities that get triggered by activating those Bridge Officer Abilities (such as Pilot-Attack Pattern Expertise, or the Attack Pattern Duty Officers).
This is strictly retiring the Skill that previously allowed those Abilities to scale in effectiveness.
Does that clarify matters at all?
Does that meant he Attack Pattern abilities will be adjusted to be slightly more powerful to compensate or will they just stay at the current level with 0 points in that skill?
He said it would be as if you were maxed in it
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Has anyone asked how this affects the Specialization system or is there no need?
Does not affect it
Explain how this will not affect the specialization tree when the Pilot tree has attack patterns in it.
Pilot line has no Attack Patterns in it. What it has is a Temp Hull point on using Attack Pattern, as in your Bridge officer Ability
I was talking about the skill system change affecting the specialization system, i.e. a specialization point is used to gain a buff from attack patterns. Try to be less focused on the particulars and keep up.
Again Bridge Officers Abilities are not changing, the specialization system is not effected.
Bridge Officers Abilities?!? LOL. What are you on?! We're talking about the personal Specialization tree here! Try and keep up, please!
Really, the guy asked about the Specialization Tree, the pilot line, Attack Pattern Exp. The NEW SKILL SYSTEM, will not effect anything withe the Specialization System, as the Attack Pattern Exp is based off of BO Abilities, not anything on the skill system
Perhaps you should keep up with the thread and what is said
LOL. And the Boffs' Attack Pattern strength is based off of YOUR Attack Pattern skill! :P Hahaha! (Or did you think your Boffs just do a gratuitous max Attack Pattern, without you having to spec in Attack Pattern?!)
Again, like I said, try and keep up, please!
While I hate this change, he did say in one of these replies that the attack patterns would have their base strength increased such that everyone would essentially have the effect of maxing it out in the current (old) system.
FYI - How to make it easier. Copy your toon to Tribble a bunch of times and test different specs. Now, if you want to wait until it comes to Holodeck, pick skills and then have to pay for a respec, then go right ahead. I'll use Tribble.
FYI - How to make it easier. Copy your toon to Tribble a bunch of times and test different specs. Now, if you want to wait until it comes to Holodeck, pick skills and then have to pay for a respec, then go right ahead. I'll use Tribble.
Think they said there will be free respec tokens on tribble
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
I would like to know how do all these changes effect things like the leech which atm is key for most builds and very very very very expensive to purchase let alone on 6 toons.
you said that things will got altered and adjusted to the new skills etc but how is the question how much are we going to loose and gain as things from reps etc can be swapped out etc with time but when things cost real currency and or a lot of ec it would be nice to know if the recent purchases I've made in both real money and time are in a few weeks going to become completely worthless and total waste.
Lol, don't you worry, he changes one power drain equation downwards and I'll be the first to notice and complain.
Does that meant he Attack Pattern abilities will be adjusted to be slightly more powerful to compensate or will they just stay at the current level with 0 points in that skill?
Or option 3, there are new skill nodes that boost Attack Patterns. Maybe not all of them at the same time or all in the same way. You might focus on them one at a time. You might buy magnitude boosts, cooldown reduction, or maybe both.
> @nikeix said: > What POSSIBLE alternative would there be to that?!?? > The entire pool of characters game-wide are all locked out of all skills until some sort of dilithium ransom is paid?
You say that in jest, but I wouldn't be surprised. ;)
"Attack Patterns: All abilities that previously benefited from this Skill have been re-balanced to behave as if the player had fully invested in the old Attack Patterns skill."
So.... as I understand it, outside of items like gear that boosts the Skill stat number (+X to Attack Patterns), which will probably have to be revised, I really don't see why it's so difficult to understand that the Pilot line stuff will behave as if you had 9 points in attack patterns. The best defense starship trait will behave as though you have 9 points in attack patterns.
For those who have trouble finding the information, I believe this means that Attack Patterns will boost all the things they currently boost and any NON STAT buffs when activating attack patterns (traits, passives, etc - which includes the pilot line) will also behave as though you have 9 points in attack patterns.
I'd like Bort to correct me if I'm wrong.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Hello all, for anyone that is interested you can leave questions for the forthcoming interview that Priority One Podcast is going to do with Jeremy 'Borticus' Randall this coming Saturday by following the link below.
FYI - How to make it easier. Copy your toon to Tribble a bunch of times and test different specs. Now, if you want to wait until it comes to Holodeck, pick skills and then have to pay for a respec, then go right ahead. I'll use Tribble.
Think they said there will be free respec tokens on tribble
Good, cuz last time I was on Tribble, respec tokens were not at all free.
When the blog talks about the removal of the Attack Patterns Skill this is not talking about the Abilities that Bridge Officers can learn (and get slotted on your ships), nor any effect on any Abilities that get triggered by activating those Bridge Officer Abilities (such as Pilot-Attack Pattern Expertise, or the Attack Pattern Duty Officers).
This is strictly retiring the Skill that previously allowed those Abilities to scale in effectiveness.
Does that clarify matters at all?
Yup, I understood no boff Attack Pattern abilities (or any other boff ability, for that matter) will be removed. However, to stick to the example, since the strength of your boff's Attack Pattern is based off of YOUR Attack Pattern skill, then this begs the question what will happen to the effectiveness of your boff's Attack Pattern ability, when the corresponding player skill has been removed.
I'm pretty sure the blog says attack patterns will now be adjusted to act as if someone put max points into that system. This means everyone who put 9 points into attack patterns will not see any change and anyone else who put less that 9 points will see a buff. That's at least how I read it.
EDIT: yep that's what it says.
From the blog:
"Attack Patterns:
All abilities that previously benefited from this Skill have been re-balanced to behave as if the player had fully invested in the old Attack Patterns skill."
Going from a fairly flexible system (0-9 points in any skill set minus some lock-ins as you move columns)
Although you could add 0-9 pumps into any given skill, as a practical matter the number of pumps put into any skill were typically either 0, 3, 6 or 9, with any other values typically being a rarity due to having "leftover" points from expenditures elsewhere in the build. Thus, going to an investment of 0, 1, 2 or 3 skill points in the new system aligns fairly closely with previous options.
0, 3, 6, 9
0, 1, 2, 3
I might have missed it, but would increasing the amounts also reduce to return like it does currently?
FYI: Bort has answered more important questions on Tribble. Pasting below since some are pretty good.
When we acquire a skill (passive or active), do we get the full 99 points we would have had from maxing the equivalent skill under the old system?
You'll actually be getting the equivalent of 100 points instead of 99. But it will usually be split into multiple nodes.
For 3-node Skills: 50, 35, 15
For 2-node Skills: 60, 40
Although you could add 0-9 pumps into any given skill, as a practical matter the number of pumps put into any skill were typically either 0, 3, 6 or 9, with any other values typically being a rarity due to having "leftover" points from expenditures elsewhere in the build. Thus, going to an investment of 0, 1, 2 or 3 skill points in the new system aligns fairly closely with previous options.
0, 3, 6, 9
0, 1, 2, 3
Took 12 pages of reading...but I finally found someone who explained it in a way I can connect to. Thanks!
We make every pretense of competency around here ... ^_~
I'm pretty sure the blog says attack patterns will now be adjusted to act as if someone put max points into that system. This means everyone who put 9 points into attack patterns will not see any change and anyone else who put less that 9 points will see a buff. That's at least how I read it.
EDIT: yep that's what it says.
From the blog:
"Attack Patterns:
All abilities that previously benefited from this Skill have been re-balanced to behave as if the player had fully invested in the old Attack Patterns skill."
Or option 3, there are new skill nodes that boost Attack Patterns. Maybe not all of them at the same time or all in the same way. You might focus on them one at a time. You might buy magnitude boosts, cooldown reduction, or maybe both.
So, those will all be maxed out for those of us with 9/9 in Attack Patterns?
A quick note for folks wanting to experiment with the new System:
When it arrives on Tribble, we'll have a test vendor available that sells free Respec Tokens, as well as bundles of 10,000 Experience Points. So please try it out when it gets patched to Tribble, and send us your feedback!
So, those will all be maxed out for those of us with 9/9 in Attack Patterns?
You will get a free respec on holodeck and when it goes live, and, like when they did the ground/space trait split, you will probably log on to find your skills all empty awaiting you to fill them.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I'll reiterate and rephrase my earlier question. Are you going to make the Sci, Eng and Tac careers all worth investing with this new system? Are you implementing trees for each career or boosting each career's traits to emphasize that character's 'training and experience'. For example, Tac's apparently causing more damage with Sci abilities that Sci characters can. This is a prime opportunity to redress the balance here! The current traits provide very little value as consoles way outweigh current trait benefits.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
A quick note for folks wanting to experiment with the new System:
When it arrives on Tribble, we'll have a test vendor available that sells free Respec Tokens, as well as bundles of 10,000 Experience Points. So please try it out when it gets patched to Tribble, and send us your feedback!
No, your reading comprehension Fu IS WEAK, as I was talking about the 'last time I was on Tribble.' Not about what is going to happen come Friday.
While there are some good questions here it seems like some players are asking the same questions over and over. Even when the answers are in the blog post! Sometimes I wish asking dumb questions was a little painful for the asker.
Comments
This is strictly retiring the Skill that previously allowed those Abilities to scale in effectiveness.
Does that clarify matters at all?
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Now the new system blows that all to hell and you're only going to be able to take half of the available skills, and then have a bunch of others activated as "passives" whether you want them or not. Uh-huh. Y'know the problem with skill trees? You inevitably have to [modded] valuable and limited points on TRIBBLE you don't want in order to unlock the one skill you do. We don't have that problem now. Thanks for bringing back this archaic and antiquated way of choosing skills.
Another revamp that will gimp the hell out of us despite your repeated assurance that you're not actually gimping the hell out of us. I look forward to the inevitable grind that will result from the imbalance and invalidation of gear we've spent YEARS earning. Nothing earns favor from your playerbase like a giant slap in the face.
Hey, how is that XP curve revamp from level 50 to 60 coming along? Y'know, the one you said you weren't going to mess with, then did, and then said you were going to normalize, but didn't?
[Rage-y comments modded]
I don't see why people are arguing that it'll be cookie cutter- as if that's not what' happening now. There's always going to be people who understand the system better and/or test longer and harder than the average player, and there will always be people that copy them because they don't want to dig down that deep into the mechanics. The real test is will multiple similarly desirable configuration emerge? Ultimately the number of different skill effects appears to be going UP not down, even if the commitment to those effects is more granular than the current "1-9 in three tiers of diminishing returns". Some of those effects that have been revealed are direct counters to issues we see in game every day (e.g. beam vs. cannon drop off, antiproton dominance). It's also clearly focused on having a normalizing effect on raw DPS output between 'picked it because it sounded cool' and carefully copied from the dark masters of the internet builds which puts more emphasis on actually play skill and a tighter range of expected output for content Developers to work with. Just check out the discussion of the new destroyers in Time and Tide. There's a learning curve for everybody, but super-DPS BRAW boats are killing them so fast they don't even see the new mechanics while more pedestrian ship are getting mulched learning the fights.
Will you have to spend points on some things you're not directly craving to unlock other things? Sure. But it's pretty obvious this system is modeled closely on the Specializations, and those clusters were no deeper than 3 and often quite wide after picking up an access node/skill.
And if there are lock boxes to open up new nodes like the genetic sequencers in game right now, at least those nodes will be luring points out of other choices and there will be some semblance of tradeoffs and opportunity costs.
-Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.
-I am one of the many victims from the hijacked Caspian Division.
I will not let the childish acts of a criminal ruin this game for me.
-The actions of Cryptic, on the other hand......
LOL. And the Boffs' Attack Pattern strength is based off of YOUR Attack Pattern skill! :P Hahaha! (Or did you think your Boffs just do a gratuitous max Attack Pattern, without you having to spec in Attack Pattern?!)
Again, like I said, try and keep up, please!
Yup, I understood no boff Attack Pattern abilities (or any other boff ability, for that matter) will be removed. However, to stick to the example, since the strength of your boff's Attack Pattern is based off of YOUR Attack Pattern skill, then this begs the question what will happen to the effectiveness of your boff's Attack Pattern ability, when the corresponding player skill has been removed.
Again the guy asked about the Specialization System, if you cant keep up and read, then perhaps that is a you problem
Does that meant he Attack Pattern abilities will be adjusted to be slightly more powerful to compensate or will they just stay at the current level with 0 points in that skill?
He said it would be as if you were maxed in it
While I hate this change, he did say in one of these replies that the attack patterns would have their base strength increased such that everyone would essentially have the effect of maxing it out in the current (old) system.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Borticus-Cryptic?count=26&before=t1_d04t7ae
What POSSIBLE alternative would there be to that?!??
The entire pool of characters game-wide are all locked out of all skills until some sort of dilithium ransom is paid?
Seriously. People go INSANE with fear some days.
Think they said there will be free respec tokens on tribble
Lol, don't you worry, he changes one power drain equation downwards and I'll be the first to notice and complain.
Or option 3, there are new skill nodes that boost Attack Patterns. Maybe not all of them at the same time or all in the same way. You might focus on them one at a time. You might buy magnitude boosts, cooldown reduction, or maybe both.
> What POSSIBLE alternative would there be to that?!??
> The entire pool of characters game-wide are all locked out of all skills until some sort of dilithium ransom is paid?
You say that in jest, but I wouldn't be surprised. ;)
"Attack Patterns:
All abilities that previously benefited from this Skill have been re-balanced to behave as if the player had fully invested in the old Attack Patterns skill."
So.... as I understand it, outside of items like gear that boosts the Skill stat number (+X to Attack Patterns), which will probably have to be revised, I really don't see why it's so difficult to understand that the Pilot line stuff will behave as if you had 9 points in attack patterns. The best defense starship trait will behave as though you have 9 points in attack patterns.
For those who have trouble finding the information, I believe this means that Attack Patterns will boost all the things they currently boost and any NON STAT buffs when activating attack patterns (traits, passives, etc - which includes the pilot line) will also behave as though you have 9 points in attack patterns.
I'd like Bort to correct me if I'm wrong.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1212047/jeremy-randall-aka-borticus-skill-system-revamp-interview
=/\= ========================================== =/\=
Fleet Admiral Winters - Priority One Armada
U.S.S. Wolverine - NCC 831216
=/\= ========================================== =/\=
Armada Leader // Executive Producer // Host // Priority One Podcast
Good, cuz last time I was on Tribble, respec tokens were not at all free.
I'm pretty sure the blog says attack patterns will now be adjusted to act as if someone put max points into that system. This means everyone who put 9 points into attack patterns will not see any change and anyone else who put less that 9 points will see a buff. That's at least how I read it.
EDIT: yep that's what it says.
From the blog:
"Attack Patterns:
All abilities that previously benefited from this Skill have been re-balanced to behave as if the player had fully invested in the old Attack Patterns skill."
=====
We make every pretense of competency around here ... ^_~
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Great! But what is this then?!
So, those will all be maxed out for those of us with 9/9 in Attack Patterns?
Page 2 of this thread.
Bottom post on the page.
Reads as follows (you can read, right?) ...
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
You will get a free respec on holodeck and when it goes live, and, like when they did the ground/space trait split, you will probably log on to find your skills all empty awaiting you to fill them.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I'll reiterate and rephrase my earlier question. Are you going to make the Sci, Eng and Tac careers all worth investing with this new system? Are you implementing trees for each career or boosting each career's traits to emphasize that character's 'training and experience'. For example, Tac's apparently causing more damage with Sci abilities that Sci characters can. This is a prime opportunity to redress the balance here! The current traits provide very little value as consoles way outweigh current trait benefits.
No, your reading comprehension Fu IS WEAK, as I was talking about the 'last time I was on Tribble.' Not about what is going to happen come Friday.