At least in flow caps land, don't worry. I'll hop on Tribble as soon as it's updated and see if there is a nerf anywhere. In theory, it should be a boost. Heck, the Breen deflector should be a nice one to equip if they add together the flow caps and power insulator bonuses.
I'm glad some ppl find everything crystal-clear. For me, however, there are still many fuzzy areas left.
I will preface this by saying that I know as much as you do about all of this. Some things are (or seem) crystal clear about the revamp for me, but you and others make a good point about stat increasing gear.
My understanding of the skill boosting consoles/deflectors/other gear (SIF gen, PrtG, Grav, etc) is that they will behave like Tac consoles currently do and always have, as in, they will boost effect of thing X by Y%. So a +PartG/Grav console from the Research lab would boost Exotic Damage and Control by X% and Y% in much the same way that a Spire Tac console boosts dmg from A by B% and CritX by Z%.
By the same logic, I'm going to (blindly) assume that a +Flow/Ins console would be a double buff to Drain Exp in much the same way the Field Exciter [PartG] is a double buff to Part Gens.
That's how I'm understanding this. I could be, of course, be completely wrong about this though.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
At least in flow caps land, don't worry. I'll hop on Tribble as soon as it's updated and see if there is a nerf anywhere. In theory, it should be a boost. Heck, the Breen deflector should be a nice one to equip if they add together the flow caps and power insulator bonuses.
Thanks! I can always rely on ppl like you to get some meaningful parsing done! This will be an interesting week!
Looking forward to trying it out. Old system was akin to having a P&P system with 300 attributes like "Zit-less-ness" and "Pretty eye lashes" and now we simply get to raise Charisma. Seems reasonable.
If you can't be bothered to read, that's your problem, not ours.
'Ours'?! You're part of some elite 'we' now, just because you're a Bug Hunter?!
Same goes for everyone else who's questions could be answered by reading what @borticuscryptic and the blog already said.
Yeah, no. Your odd grandstanding despite, I've seen even the greatest experts in this thread left with many unanswered questions (especially on the matter of console boosts, etc, on the new 'compound' skills) that frankly you have no idea about either. So, if you have nothing real to contribute, please desist from making all these snide posts.
As others have pointed out to you, as a professional Bug Hunter, you should purport yourself with some more decorum. Sad to see that you don't. Don't let the Title get to your head.
How's telling people that they'd have a good number of their questions being answered by reading elitist exactly?
No one else has said anything of the sort, we're Bug Hunters because we know the game well and are willing to give our time and energy to help sort the grain from the chaff with issues in the game. Sometimes that involves telling people they're wrong, which thankfully I don't have to do very often but at the same time I won't loose any sleep over the times I do.
Telling people they're making 'snide posts' just because you think it is, doesn't make it right, its just rude. Water off a ducks back for me if people don't care. I've clearly taken more time to look around and read up than you have, and I also know when a question is just unnecessary, because like I said, @borticuscryptic shouldn't have to do the maths for every little combination of stuff when people could do it themselves when the system goes live.
Considering the system is also meant to have much better explanations, it'd be a good test of that as well to see if those explanations are good enough.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
I'm glad some ppl find everything crystal-clear. For me, however, there are still many fuzzy areas left.
I will preface this by saying that I know as much as you do about all of this. Some things are (or seem) crystal clear about the revamp for me, but you and others make a good point about stat increasing gear.
My understanding of the skill boosting consoles/deflectors/other gear (SIF gen, PrtG, Grav, etc) is that they will behave like Tac consoles currently do and always have, as in, they will boost effect of thing X by Y%. So a +PartG/Grav console from the Research lab would boost Exotic Damage and Control by X% and Y% in much the same way that a Spire Tac console boosts dmg from A by B% and CritX by Z%.
By the same logic, I'm going to (blindly) assume that a +Flow/Ins console would be a double buff to Drain Exp in much the same way the Field Exciter [PartG] is a double buff to Part Gens.
That's how I'm understanding this. I could be, of course, be completely wrong about this though.
Thanks. Like I just said to lucho80, I bet this upcoming week will proof interesting for parsing. I will personally be especially interested in seeing how gear will affect compound skills. Like you said, we may even see an overall buff somewhere if a compound skill gets boosted in its entirety, when just an heretofore individual skills was boosted.
So this threat control and threat stance toggle is interesting. Does this mean we can only choose between off and +Threat. Or can we choose -Threat, off, and +Threat when trained in this skill?
So this threat control and threat stance toggle is interesting. Does this mean we can only choose between off and +Threat. Or can we choose -Threat, off, and +Threat when trained in this skill?
From what I've read, it seems it'll be a case of 'Threat Off' or '+Threat' being the choice with a clickie. It would be pretty cool if we could have a -Threat option though.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
It's not even finished yet it's just beginning the testing phase but even in its current state it's the best thing that ever happened to the game and answers so many requests.
It's not even finished yet it's just beging the testing phase but even in its current state it's the best thing that ever happened to the game and answers so many requests.
I thought that was Delta Rising?
But seriously, a skill revamp is definitely a thing that people, not everyone, but a lot of people have been asking for for a long time.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
It's not even finished yet it's just beging the testing phase but even in its current state it's the best thing that ever happened to the game and answers so many requests.
I thought that was Delta Rising?
But seriously, a skill revamp is definitely a thing that people, not everyone, but a lot of people have been asking for for a long time.
A skill revamp was needed, yes, but not a complete removal of your builds for a new DPS style build. All of my builds have been thrown out the window with this new system, unless they allow us to replicate our current build EXACTLY. Some of us do other roles besides the typical DPS.
You should have no issue duplicating your current build if anything it will be easier, but now you will have even more choices.
Given the fact we can't max out every category I don't believe that for a second. Some builds may very well be easily duplicated in the new system, but every single one of them? Impossible. The math simply just does not add up for a blanket statement like that to be true.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Finally, It took those clowns three years to finally do something about skill system. All I hope for is that it not worst then the system we have now. It would take them another 10 years to get it fix.
Well, I am going to view this on Tribble with one of my characters, at least. If only to alleviate a worry in my mind about not understanding how to use this new interface.
Take a look at how the skills are going to be divvied up and grouped. Then compare it to what I currently have and chart it to what I want. Meantime, make sure I am more clear on how all the skills work.
So when it goes on line in Spring (I think that is what it said in the blog)... I can at least fill out the basics....when the skills get zeroed out with the new tree system.
Then, my understanding is each character will gain a free respec token if any corrections need to be made. So I can adjust it one more time. Is this right?
Additional Question: Do they mean THIS Spring...before the Risa Summer event? Or next Spring? Never mind it is in the blog:
"Skill System becomes a permanent part of the Star Trek Online experience with the launch of Season 11.5 later this Spring!"
This is a crazy amount of TRIBBLE to iron out in a month or two...for everybody.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
You should have no issue duplicating your current build if anything it will be easier, but now you will have even more choices.
Given the fact we can't max out every category I don't believe that for a second. Some builds may very well be easily duplicated in the new system, but every single one of them? Impossible. The math simply just does not add up for a blanket statement like that to be true.
Remember some stuff is now an unlock or factored in via other methods like the Attack Patterns, so some things that you may have put points in before are now freed up for other things, which alters the scale a bit.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Well I'll have to play with it on Tribble to really see how it works, and I hope that we'll see the console hand out skill point revamp tokens so we can play around with it, but I like what I'm seeing. What they did was rebuild the skill system in the same manner as the Specialization system, which is logical, it's now unified. Heck probably should've predicted it since the skill system and spec system were so radically different for progression tracks that were supposed to be basically the same.
Honestly I'm not sure that duplicating my build is my goal, though I'm wondering how much I'll have to invest to get my driver coil back to full. If the new system can provide a better build than I had before that might be what I'm shooting for.
I'll leave it to more dedicated minds to hash out whether or not we lose anything, but it looks like they've done pretty well on this and I'm looking forward to it.
As far as Threat Control, I doubt it will be missed much. Most people I've read and talked to, used it more for the durability boost than generating threat, since the situation has been for ages that an escort would so out dps a cruiser that it would still produce more threat than Threat Control.
So this threat control and threat stance toggle is interesting. Does this mean we can only choose between off and +Threat. Or can we choose -Threat, off, and +Threat when trained in this skill?
Also how will it interact with the embassy consoles that had -threat?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
While I appreciate the practice of constant improvement, I am concerned that this system will oversimplify the skills to the point of limiting personalization.
There will be less possible variations of builds which can lead to a more cookie cutter effect if not done right. I can also see how there will be likely a lot of "unexpected" outcomes togameplay poppingup from this
My hope for Cryptic is to keep this new system on Tribble for a much longer time than they have for other changes, and give this a REAL beta test before it. I mean a month or so, and get real feedback from players as advisement. Maybe even incentivize the players to beta it on tribble.This sort of change is a big deal and deserves more testing than we have historically seen for changes since PWE took over Cryptic.
While I appreciate the practice of constant improvement, I am concerned that this system will oversimplify the skills to the point of limiting personalization.
There will be less possible variations of builds which can lead to a more cookie cutter effect if not done right. I can also see how there will be likely a lot of "unexpected" outcomes togameplay poppingup from this
My hope for Cryptic is to keep this new system on Tribble for a much longer time than they have for other changes, and give this a REAL beta test before it. I mean a month or so, and get real feedback from players as advisement. Maybe even incentivize the players to beta it on tribble.This sort of change is a big deal and deserves more testing than we have historically seen for changes since PWE took over Cryptic.
Honestly I'm not sure that duplicating my build is my goal, though I'm wondering how much I'll have to invest to get my driver coil back to full.
You are not the only one concerned with the Driver Coil unlock (my friend explained to me what "unlock" means).
Please leave driver coils a lower level "unlock". It is horrible enough flying through sector space to mission assignments in low tier ships, as it is. Especially, since sector revamp for KDF and ROM characters.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Thanks again to Borticus for taking the time to answer questions along the way.
One question I have, for toons who are 'specialized' under one of the new skill paths, will it be noted on the toon?
Right now for example, I figure one of my toons is a medic-type toon within the current skills system. Will that toon, if I then directly choose the Medic path under the new system, be shown to others as being a Medic? Something like a passive icon or a note on the character's info page? It'd help with making characters unique (you're not just a sci anymore, but a specific path under sci), but that'd also have a big impact on teamplay. In a PUG, for example, someone would see that I'm a Medic right out of the gate, and know that's what I bring to the table.
A skill revamp was needed, yes, but not a complete removal of your builds for a new DPS style build. All of my builds have been thrown out the window with this new system, unless they allow us to replicate our current build EXACTLY. Some of us do other roles besides the typical DPS.
For one thing, nothing has yet been thrown out because it hasn't happened yet.
I don't run a single DPS focused build, preferring to either heal or make pretty purple balls of dancing NPC ships for some other guy to blow up, and I like what I see so far. I have spent time, money, and invested dogbuscuits on this game, and there are a few things that I will need to change or adapt, for sure, and I may not be able to do CC and Healing on the same character, but I really, really, really don't see anything for anyone to panic about.
I'm not accusing anyone in particular of anything here, I think it's been a joint, unconscious, and mutual effort between Crytpic and the playerbase, but I really think we all need to take a deep introspective and honest look at our current builds and ask what stuff are we using that, in a Perfect World (lol) should really probably be changed, tweaked, nerfed, fixed, come at more of a cost, or simply not be a thing. Only once we've done that will balance be brought to the force...
I will add too, as an aside, that while I don't imagine for a minute that the profitability of this move hasn't been analyzed, I think it's a pretty cheap shot to simply call moneygrabbing and unnecessary.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I'm not accusing anyone in particular of anything here, I think it's been a joint, unconscious, and mutual effort between Crytpic and the playerbase, but I really think we all need to take a deep introspective and honest look at our current builds and ask what stuff are we using that, in a Perfect World (lol) should really probably be changed, tweaked, nerfed, fixed, come at more of a cost, or simply not be a thing. Only once we've done that will balance be brought to the force...
This is partly what I meant with the whole 'people need to test on tribble' line, because if this helps to balance out different types of builds then so much the better, and while this won't be the whole solution we can hope that it'll make progress towards that.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Ok, so, with the way the current respec system and skill system works, you can play around with it, clicking and choosing different skill setitngs before finally committing to a build and clicking "Accept". Is the new system going to function in this manner, too, or once you click it, you're stuck with it? The latter option doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
Ok, so, with the way the current respec system and skill system works, you can play around with it, clicking and choosing different skill setitngs before finally committing to a build and clicking "Accept". Is the new system going to function in this manner, too, or once you click it, you're stuck with it? The latter option doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
It works as if you click it, you own it. But you can read the tool tip first before you click
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Yeah if they're one after the other on the same track that's fine. If they are split up so say flow is on three different parts of the eng track then that's a different kettle of fish. Cheers.
Yeah if they're one after the other on the same track that's fine. If they are split up so say flow is on three different parts of the eng track then that's a different kettle of fish. Cheers.
They will be on the same track
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Comments
I will preface this by saying that I know as much as you do about all of this. Some things are (or seem) crystal clear about the revamp for me, but you and others make a good point about stat increasing gear.
My understanding of the skill boosting consoles/deflectors/other gear (SIF gen, PrtG, Grav, etc) is that they will behave like Tac consoles currently do and always have, as in, they will boost effect of thing X by Y%. So a +PartG/Grav console from the Research lab would boost Exotic Damage and Control by X% and Y% in much the same way that a Spire Tac console boosts dmg from A by B% and CritX by Z%.
By the same logic, I'm going to (blindly) assume that a +Flow/Ins console would be a double buff to Drain Exp in much the same way the Field Exciter [PartG] is a double buff to Part Gens.
That's how I'm understanding this. I could be, of course, be completely wrong about this though.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Thanks!
How's telling people that they'd have a good number of their questions being answered by reading elitist exactly?
No one else has said anything of the sort, we're Bug Hunters because we know the game well and are willing to give our time and energy to help sort the grain from the chaff with issues in the game. Sometimes that involves telling people they're wrong, which thankfully I don't have to do very often but at the same time I won't loose any sleep over the times I do.
Telling people they're making 'snide posts' just because you think it is, doesn't make it right, its just rude. Water off a ducks back for me if people don't care. I've clearly taken more time to look around and read up than you have, and I also know when a question is just unnecessary, because like I said, @borticuscryptic shouldn't have to do the maths for every little combination of stuff when people could do it themselves when the system goes live.
Considering the system is also meant to have much better explanations, it'd be a good test of that as well to see if those explanations are good enough.
Thanks.
From what I've read, it seems it'll be a case of 'Threat Off' or '+Threat' being the choice with a clickie. It would be pretty cool if we could have a -Threat option though.
It's not even finished yet it's just beginning the testing phase but even in its current state it's the best thing that ever happened to the game and answers so many requests.
I thought that was Delta Rising?
But seriously, a skill revamp is definitely a thing that people, not everyone, but a lot of people have been asking for for a long time.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
A skill revamp was needed, yes, but not a complete removal of your builds for a new DPS style build. All of my builds have been thrown out the window with this new system, unless they allow us to replicate our current build EXACTLY. Some of us do other roles besides the typical DPS.
Given the fact we can't max out every category I don't believe that for a second. Some builds may very well be easily duplicated in the new system, but every single one of them? Impossible. The math simply just does not add up for a blanket statement like that to be true.
Take a look at how the skills are going to be divvied up and grouped. Then compare it to what I currently have and chart it to what I want. Meantime, make sure I am more clear on how all the skills work.
So when it goes on line in Spring (I think that is what it said in the blog)... I can at least fill out the basics....when the skills get zeroed out with the new tree system.
Then, my understanding is each character will gain a free respec token if any corrections need to be made. So I can adjust it one more time. Is this right?
Additional Question: Do they mean THIS Spring...before the Risa Summer event? Or next Spring? Never mind it is in the blog:
"Skill System becomes a permanent part of the Star Trek Online experience with the launch of Season 11.5 later this Spring!"
This is a crazy amount of TRIBBLE to iron out in a month or two...for everybody.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Remember some stuff is now an unlock or factored in via other methods like the Attack Patterns, so some things that you may have put points in before are now freed up for other things, which alters the scale a bit.
Honestly I'm not sure that duplicating my build is my goal, though I'm wondering how much I'll have to invest to get my driver coil back to full. If the new system can provide a better build than I had before that might be what I'm shooting for.
I'll leave it to more dedicated minds to hash out whether or not we lose anything, but it looks like they've done pretty well on this and I'm looking forward to it.
As far as Threat Control, I doubt it will be missed much. Most people I've read and talked to, used it more for the durability boost than generating threat, since the situation has been for ages that an escort would so out dps a cruiser that it would still produce more threat than Threat Control.
Also how will it interact with the embassy consoles that had -threat?
There will be less possible variations of builds which can lead to a more cookie cutter effect if not done right. I can also see how there will be likely a lot of "unexpected" outcomes togameplay poppingup from this
My hope for Cryptic is to keep this new system on Tribble for a much longer time than they have for other changes, and give this a REAL beta test before it. I mean a month or so, and get real feedback from players as advisement. Maybe even incentivize the players to beta it on tribble.This sort of change is a big deal and deserves more testing than we have historically seen for changes since PWE took over Cryptic.
You are not the only one concerned with the Driver Coil unlock (my friend explained to me what "unlock" means).
Please leave driver coils a lower level "unlock". It is horrible enough flying through sector space to mission assignments in low tier ships, as it is. Especially, since sector revamp for KDF and ROM characters.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
One question I have, for toons who are 'specialized' under one of the new skill paths, will it be noted on the toon?
Right now for example, I figure one of my toons is a medic-type toon within the current skills system. Will that toon, if I then directly choose the Medic path under the new system, be shown to others as being a Medic? Something like a passive icon or a note on the character's info page? It'd help with making characters unique (you're not just a sci anymore, but a specific path under sci), but that'd also have a big impact on teamplay. In a PUG, for example, someone would see that I'm a Medic right out of the gate, and know that's what I bring to the table.
For one thing, nothing has yet been thrown out because it hasn't happened yet.
I don't run a single DPS focused build, preferring to either heal or make pretty purple balls of dancing NPC ships for some other guy to blow up, and I like what I see so far. I have spent time, money, and invested dogbuscuits on this game, and there are a few things that I will need to change or adapt, for sure, and I may not be able to do CC and Healing on the same character, but I really, really, really don't see anything for anyone to panic about.
I'm not accusing anyone in particular of anything here, I think it's been a joint, unconscious, and mutual effort between Crytpic and the playerbase, but I really think we all need to take a deep introspective and honest look at our current builds and ask what stuff are we using that, in a Perfect World (lol) should really probably be changed, tweaked, nerfed, fixed, come at more of a cost, or simply not be a thing. Only once we've done that will balance be brought to the force...
I will add too, as an aside, that while I don't imagine for a minute that the profitability of this move hasn't been analyzed, I think it's a pretty cheap shot to simply call moneygrabbing and unnecessary.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
They're also adding some in, the energy weapon damage drop off reductions for example.
This is partly what I meant with the whole 'people need to test on tribble' line, because if this helps to balance out different types of builds then so much the better, and while this won't be the whole solution we can hope that it'll make progress towards that.
It works as if you click it, you own it. But you can read the tool tip first before you click
Not sure what you mean but I think what you are asking is this:
There is three Clicks (levels) to each skill. Say Drain Exp, there it Level 1, 2, 3
Level 1 gives 50 points, level gives 35, level 3 gives 15.... Which makes 100 is you chose all three.
Each level is on the same track.
When tribble goes live today we will be able to see where everything is on the skill board
They will be on the same track
> It works as if you click it, you own it. But you can read the tool tip first before you click.
I guess I'm gonna have to spend A LOT of time on tribble to get this just right. >_>