Only two of mine are actual Lib Borg characters. The rest are an assortment of Borg boffs I have.... some of them boffs costumed to LOOK Borg even though their race is technically not Borg. the ones in the top row you can buy in the z-store for 500 zen I think. (I get one per character "free", but that's because I bought a pre-order version of the game.)
you need to remember that if it were left up to the borg collective they would turn every sentient being in the entire galaxy into a borg drone or kill any that fight back with their superior firepower and defences.
if killing every borg is committing mass genocide in your opinion then what are the borg doing.
would you not class this as galactic slavery and mass genocide on an unprecedented scale.
are you implying that any who refuse to be enslaved by the borg and stripped of their individuality or wiped out do not have the right to defend themselves.
indeed their individuality does remain but it is imprisoned deep within, unable to control their actions or live their lives as they wish or even love another of their kind, yet they have committed no crime that deserves this imprisonment and isolation.
the borg are like a virus infecting others without remorse or feelings, with a total lack of empathy they are the quintessential Sociopath.
sure they can be liberated but they can never be completely cured, almost like a addict they are only a hairs breath away from being reintegrated into the collective at any given moment and any offspring they may have after they are liberated will probably carry that same dormant infection deep within their blood.
I don't know which is more disturbing: your prejudice toward liberated Borg, or that you justify genocide with genocide.
I have no prejudice toward liberated Borg, but its like the old saying goes 'once an addict always an addict' although not quite the same the analogy still fits, once a borg always a borg, like the addict who can so easily revert so can a liberated borg so easily be reverted to the collective, did we not see just this very thing in the pve queue 'Borg Disconnected'.
there is a is difference between justifying genocide with genocide and protecting your home family and friends from and the whole population of the entire galaxy from genocide with genocide, besides which you are basically saying its ok for one person to kill another person to protect his life but it is wrong for one race to kill another race for the same protection, remember it only takes one borg queen to start the the collective again so if that means committing genocide against a race of millions of borg to protect billions and billions of lives then so be it.
At what point do the ones who you care about find out about your monsterous actions on those you have killed to protect those you care for and they hate you for it?.
get real I think they would be grateful for being saved no matter the cost, self preservation is the strongest desire of any lifeform and being turned into emotionless machines like the borg is in fact a fate worse then death.
do you think john conner would feel guilty for wiping out the terminators, do you think van helsing would feel any guilt at wiping out all vampires and do you think the jewish people of 1920 to 1945 Germany would shed any tears that Adolf Hitler and the TRIBBLE party were wiped from existence.
john conner? van helsing? they do not enter into it because they are directly responsible for what has happened, i am writing about everyone else around them who can see the conflicts in a different light. i dont care about your failure to grasp that, but that is what i am going after to make a point and not whatever the hell you are going after.
as for the ww2 with the jewish community, you are missing the point there by some margin, you are not even thinking about the human condition, you are assuming everyone who was jewish were blood thirsty monsters, but thats your presumption to know. as you said "get real", perhaps you should take a dose of what you offered me instead because in this world you have those warmongers, you have those moderates and you have those pacifists, each with their own thoughts. you think that no one would shed tears over the amount of dead regardless of faction and idealogy? you can not stop the feel of emotions, its apart of who we are.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I agree that "canon" and moreso other peoples versions thereof, too often means they get the right to delegitimize other peoples viewpoints. I have faced disrespect (to say the least) from quite a few on this forum over the fact that their "canon" means Klingons should just either be assimilated into the Federation, or just be "glassed" entirely. I could carry on a lengthy debate that devolves into a flamefest, but after a post or two, I generally prefer to let the debate die. If that means they get the final word and thus the "WIN", so be it.
I agree that "canon" and moreso other peoples versions thereof, too often means they get the right to delegitimize other peoples viewpoints. I have faced disrespect (to say the least) from quite a few on this forum over the fact that their "canon" means Klingons should just either be assimilated into the Federation, or just be "glassed" entirely. I could carry on a lengthy debate that devolves into a flamefest, but after a post or two, I generally prefer to let the debate die. If that means they get the final word and thus the "WIN", so be it.
Good attitude. After all, winning an argument on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics...
I think the fundamental thing is - whether it's genocide or not - as long as we can't come up with a better solution to protect us from the Borg, it's acceptable to destroy borg cubes and kill drones.
We should try finding better solutions, and maybe we'll eventually will. Even more - in the Star Trek Universe we should eventually find a better solution.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
In my opinion, the state of the collective NEEDS to have an episode/season devoted to it at this point.
i mean, they have been hammered into oblivion in the last year. by the Undine, the Voth, the Vaaduar, the Iconians, and even the Co-operative. For the first time in centuries the Borg are actually 'losing'. Their supremacy is no longer guaranteed, and yet they are still trying the exact same strategies over, and over, and over...
In recent times, the Borg have shown a critical lack of 'adaptation' to their situation. One way or another, SOMETHING needs to change within the collective for them to remain relevant,
Real Temporal Operative: Purchased the Special Temporal Agent pack before it was even officially announced!
Until Starfleet equips my ship with the means to incapacitate the Borg and safely liberate them, the destruction of an opponent that is trying to destroy my ship and crew is the most logical course of action. My duties lie to the safety of my crew before the lives of a foe that is trying to destroy/assimilate them.
Please don't make me invoke a current movement and replace 'Borg' for part of it.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
There's a chance that this is better suited to Ten Forward (Devs, if it is, feel free to move it), but I've a question on whenever we destroy anything to do with the Borg Collective; are we (be it the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Republic, Other) committing mass genocide? Especially when we take down a Cube?
There are several thousand drones (or more) in each Cube, and although they're under the collective influence, we know that their individuality remains. Maybe genocide is the wrong choice of word (someone choose a better one if that's the case), but should we not be taking into account all the lives that we're ending each time we blow up a Borg vessel?
Really though - where I would prefer a game with a nearly infinite procedurally generated galaxy where there's tons of opportunities to do all sorts of stuff that doesn't involve blowing stuff up - I.E. - lots of flying around collecting stuff, setting up colonies, and that sort - a lot of people don't like to play games like that. Yes, you kill more people in the first twenty levels of this game than have probably been killed in all Star Trek Episodes combined - it's a game.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
Thank you for the update. Now I can refrain from posting here and in the Security Officer Thread as it seems I have nothing to contribute.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I want to see the Borg operate like some sort of scary religion since forced assimilation seems to set them on a path of getting Janewayed. They just offer the goodies of the collective in return for being a drone. Framing it as a path to ultimate enlightenment. Millions would join since all of space is a stand in for Earth and people have been falling for that sort of since caveman days.
If I had a choice of liberating a drone at great risk to ship and crew or putting the safety of my ship and crew before that risk, I'd put my ship and crew's safety first.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
@betayuya - Play the "Khitomer in Stasis" ground STF. When your team has destroyed all 6 nodes, go to one of the IMRs. Before someone activates the function to destroy it, jump inside the portal on the end of the IMR and walk inside until your toon dies from the radiation.
After you die, you'll get an accolade called "assimilated". Once you have that accolade go to Battle Group Omega and talk to the U.S.S. Victory (I.K.S. Chang if you're KDF). They'll give you a free Borg Science BOFF.
Also, you can buy borg boffs on exchange. The 500 zen one comes in a box. It's around 13-20M though. Or you could buy a Romulan Borg Sci in the Lobi store for 300 lobi.
You can also buy that Romulan Borg Science Officer on the Exchange (boxed as well).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Somebody storing it and taking advantage of the new limits. I picked one up for under 30 million about two months ago. At the Lobi cost it should be around the price of a Lobi Shuttle before they took a turn for the worse because of the Admiralty System.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The Borg have been said to assimilate whole races. Do they divide up the drones, or are they part of the same ship, formed as is? Is a assimilated race still a "race" or now borg?
Do we commit genocide when we kill all drones made from a single race?
The Borg have been said to assimilate whole races. Do they divide up the drones, or are they part of the same ship, formed as is? Is a assimilated race still a "race" or now borg?
Do we commit genocide when we kill all drones made from a single race?
Hmm... good question. In voyager they did show that drones get reassigned rather often, so I would say that even if they all started out in the same place they probably didn't stay there.
The Borg have been said to assimilate whole races. Do they divide up the drones, or are they part of the same ship, formed as is? Is a assimilated race still a "race" or now borg?
Do we commit genocide when we kill all drones made from a single race?
Given what we've seen of how assimilation works they stop being an individual race when they're assimilated, everything that makes them unique that doesn't directly benefit the collective is removed by the nanites and 'upgraded' to the current collective norm.
Hell, the STF bosses remain unique so we can tell them apart from the other random drones.
The Borg have been said to assimilate whole races. Do they divide up the drones, or are they part of the same ship, formed as is? Is a assimilated race still a "race" or now borg?
Do we commit genocide when we kill all drones made from a single race?
Given what we've seen of how assimilation works they stop being an individual race when they're assimilated, everything that makes them unique that doesn't directly benefit the collective is removed by the nanites and 'upgraded' to the current collective norm.
Hell, the STF bosses remain unique so we can tell them apart from the other random drones.
I don't call self defence genocide with my dealings with the collective, it's the collective that commits a form of genocide when they assimilate whole worlds and civilisations
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I see fighting borg as enforcing a quarantine through military force - Sure, the borg are still people, but they carry a sickness, that takes away people's much valued individuality and can render them effectively brain-dead. Even though it might be possible to cure them, if you allow them to overwhelm your capacity to contain the disease, you will have an outbreak on your hands. So unless you specifically go out of your way to hunt them down or to limit their capacity of self-sustained life, it's not a genocide - it's setting up a firewall, and being very strict about burning everything that tries to go through. If the borg try it anyway, then the blame lies with their leadership, not with us (when lemmings fall from a cliff in herds, the cliff is not commiting genocide, the lemmings are just plain ol' crazy).
The whole story would be completely different, if the borg were a bit more like the Kobali: "Hey, we need dead bodies to propagate our race, isn't it awfully nice of us that we just use bodies that are already dead, rather than speeding up the process by shooting everyone else in the face and turning them into Kobali by force?" (I bet that that's what the mirror Kobali do, though)
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
john conner? van helsing? they do not enter into it because they are directly responsible for what has happened, i am writing about everyone else around them who can see the conflicts in a different light. i dont care about your failure to grasp that, but that is what i am going after to make a point and not whatever the hell you are going after.
as for the ww2 with the jewish community, you are missing the point there by some margin, you are not even thinking about the human condition, you are assuming everyone who was jewish were blood thirsty monsters, but thats your presumption to know. as you said "get real", perhaps you should take a dose of what you offered me instead because in this world you have those warmongers, you have those moderates and you have those pacifists, each with their own thoughts. you think that no one would shed tears over the amount of dead regardless of faction and idealogy? you can not stop the feel of emotions, its apart of who we are.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Good attitude. After all, winning an argument on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics...
We should try finding better solutions, and maybe we'll eventually will. Even more - in the Star Trek Universe we should eventually find a better solution.
i mean, they have been hammered into oblivion in the last year. by the Undine, the Voth, the Vaaduar, the Iconians, and even the Co-operative. For the first time in centuries the Borg are actually 'losing'. Their supremacy is no longer guaranteed, and yet they are still trying the exact same strategies over, and over, and over...
In recent times, the Borg have shown a critical lack of 'adaptation' to their situation. One way or another, SOMETHING needs to change within the collective for them to remain relevant,
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Somebody else already beat you to that little joke.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Really though - where I would prefer a game with a nearly infinite procedurally generated galaxy where there's tons of opportunities to do all sorts of stuff that doesn't involve blowing stuff up - I.E. - lots of flying around collecting stuff, setting up colonies, and that sort - a lot of people don't like to play games like that. Yes, you kill more people in the first twenty levels of this game than have probably been killed in all Star Trek Episodes combined - it's a game.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Put this banner up and show people that Borg lives matter!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I never thought my hashtag joke would merit its own banner
@betayuya - Play the "Khitomer in Stasis" ground STF. When your team has destroyed all 6 nodes, go to one of the IMRs. Before someone activates the function to destroy it, jump inside the portal on the end of the IMR and walk inside until your toon dies from the radiation.
After you die, you'll get an accolade called "assimilated". Once you have that accolade go to Battle Group Omega and talk to the U.S.S. Victory (I.K.S. Chang if you're KDF). They'll give you a free Borg Science BOFF.
My character Tsin'xing
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
Do we commit genocide when we kill all drones made from a single race?
I must admit, when I read the start of the thread, I was already planning the banner
Great minds (well, twisted minds) think alike, right?
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My character Tsin'xing
Given what we've seen of how assimilation works they stop being an individual race when they're assimilated, everything that makes them unique that doesn't directly benefit the collective is removed by the nanites and 'upgraded' to the current collective norm.
Hell, the STF bosses remain unique so we can tell them apart from the other random drones.
I don't call self defence genocide with my dealings with the collective, it's the collective that commits a form of genocide when they assimilate whole worlds and civilisations
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
The whole story would be completely different, if the borg were a bit more like the Kobali: "Hey, we need dead bodies to propagate our race, isn't it awfully nice of us that we just use bodies that are already dead, rather than speeding up the process by shooting everyone else in the face and turning them into Kobali by force?" (I bet that that's what the mirror Kobali do, though)