There's a chance that this is better suited to Ten Forward (Devs, if it is, feel free to move it), but I've a question on whenever we destroy anything to do with the Borg Collective; are we (be it the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Republic, Other) committing mass genocide? Especially when we take down a Cube?
There are several thousand drones (or more) in each Cube, and although they're under the collective influence, we know that their individuality remains. Maybe genocide is the wrong choice of word (someone choose a better one if that's the case), but should we not be taking into account all the lives that we're ending each time we blow up a Borg vessel?
Genocide is usually referred to when civilians are involved. Those whom are killed by SF are military.
Also: Kill one man and it's murder, kill a thousand and it's a tragedy, kill a million and it's an statistic.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
The Borg (definitely not Swedish) are a Collective. That, per definition, changes the playing field, for to face 1 Borg is to effectively face them all; so that killing '1 vs. all' is simply a false dichotomy: either you kill the entire Cube, or they kill you. And since they go by their credo that Resistance is futile, so is trying to reason with them.
Under exigent circumstances (like the threat of being extinguished themselves, by the Undine), the Borg Queen in Voyager showed they can be bargained with, to a small degree, but otherwise the Borg -- even though the Devs here made them an impotent joke -- in 'reality' are a clear and present danger to our entire Galaxy. Aka, kill on sight, and don't blink.
No one's the right side in the war, and no one's really a victor in a war. With that said, everything taking away your freedom (and Borg's definitely doing that by assimilating) is something that you should fight against, if it means destroying their ships with countless drones, so be it. I am also against turning the drones away from the collective as well, I generally don't think any race should police and meddle into the affairs of the another, I'd leave them be, when they'd start attacking my worlds, my people, I would annihilate all that were in my space, and mourn for the loss later.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
onlyest sad thinga bout borgs is that they still exist, wipe them all out. yeah they created some interesing technology. if it will be posible, i will lead mission to thier main hive aqnd kill thier queen once for all. lets exterminate all borgs.
As long as we win, all will be forgiven and forgotten..and if we don't win then we really won't care what is said
(how many massacres and genocides have happened in history and been justified/hidden by the victors do you think?)
We've had decades to study and adapt to the Borg threat, yet our first response is still to shoot and destroy as quickly as possible? I'd much rather disable their vessels and liberate as many drones as possible. Sure, death might be preferable in a few cases, but most drones are not there by choice, and would be grateful we did not give up on them.
Attempt liberation of drones--->reason with drones if possible--->diplomatic solutions---> defend ship/crew---> offense/disable borg ships--->Destroy Borg ship/drones
The best path
ALL borg where once individuals, and still can be.
Head-canon: Every ship we blow up (Borg or otherwise) sees most of their crews in escape pods.
The Feds then kindly pick them up and take them back home. They give them cake.
The Klingons fly away because there's no glory in shooting cowardly fish in a barrel. (Only cowards would refuse to die in battle after all)
The Romulans offer a chance to go work with D'Tan. Those that agree find themselves on New Romulus tagging Epohhs. Those that disagree discover that Commander Kurland now has their phone number.
Actually they retain almost no individuality depending. Piccard was unique since the queen wanted to keep his uniqueness intact, Seven if Nine on the other hand had few if any memories from her past and had difficulty remembering even those. Granted she was only a child but still once your assimilated your just a hard drive to be reprogrammed at will. The unfortunate truth is we don't have the ability/knowledge to mass liberate drones and help them but the Cooperative can. In fact killing them is the next best thing because as many people have stated being a drone is a fate worse than death.
Until Cryptic gives us the mechanism that we had in the Delta Quadrant Jarleth System Patrol, there is no reasoning with them. Try giving Diplomatic Immunity to one of the Cubes or Spheres in ISA and see how that works out.
Until then, to 'Hell's Heart' they must be sent.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
apparently so lol, but as for the OP's suggestion, the Mods where kind enough to leave it up in this thread, samt1996 has a valid point behind that, borg babies wouldn't know anything about what to do next after they grew into drones.
Though I should note she went through a period of serious depression in the first years after her rescue in which she would have said that attempting a rescue was not the right choice...she's since gotten help for that (including professional) and is doing a lot better, but as I commented to @jodarkrider before, that just goes to show how different each character's reaction to the same thing can be.
Well, each Liberated is different. Depending on time spent in the Collective is also a huge factor.
That being said, I am rather amazed at the amount of mostly grim responses, & that it's believed that saving a Drone's life is not worth it for most of you folks. Given in STO, in 2410, it is FAR easier than Trek series presented it, as the Borg in STO are not the top dogs anymore, technologically wise. Again, run the Delta Quad patrol with Hugh for reference.
This is just the way I interpreted it, but there was a big difference running that patrol backed by Hugh's firepower (which was very impressive) and technical support, than attempting that without his considerable assistance. Given that we don't have that when we act on our own, it's still to my mind a very risky proposition under normal circumstances. But again, I think there is room for multiple perspectives and interpretations of the same episode. (You should see my "dissertation" on "Butterfly"! )
Liberating individuals one at a time or in small groups, yeah, that probably does happen somewhat more often and as mentioned before, even my captains, in their pragmatism, do not completely rule it out as an option and have done it successfully on occasion.
Fanficcy stuff:
As far as Commander Redmond...her circumstance is a bit unique in that she is actually one of Starfleet's earliest known victims of the Borg. She's a survivor of the Enterprise-E attack in First Contact. Her time in the Collective wasn't long, but the Queen aboard that ship was beta-testing tech on her that made undoing the physical effects of her assimilation basically impossible to do without killing her (a forerunner to the tech seen in the most recently assimilated drones in STO, but given the destruction of the Ent-E, the results of said tests were not communicated in the fateful message to the Delta Quadrant). But at the same time, the emotional suppression tech that affects Seven of Nine was not in use yet (at that time, liberation almost never occurred, so they didn't plan against it as "effectively"). So the end result was someone whose personality reasserted itself as strongly as Picard's, but physically she looks every inch the Borg drone.
The result was a pretty serious case of post-traumatic stress disorder that fit most of the clinical signs you'd expect from human who was tortured/violated, and suffered severely disfiguring injuries. Part of the reason she's only a commander in 2410, when you consider when her assimilation took place, is that she left Starfleet for a while to get her head straight. Early in that period was when the depression became so severe that she almost took her own life. She's made a lot of improvements since then and ended up returning to Starfleet when there first started to be rumblings that the Borg might return in force. Still, even with all the progress she's made, and the great support she has from her commander and her counselor, you can definitely still tell that the experience left its psychological mark on her in addition to the physical disfigurement.
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Though I should note she went through a period of serious depression in the first years after her rescue in which she would have said that attempting a rescue was not the right choice...she's since gotten help for that (including professional) and is doing a lot better, but as I commented to @jodarkrider before, that just goes to show how different each character's reaction to the same thing can be.
Well, each Liberated is different. Depending on time spent in the Collective is also a huge factor.
That being said, I am rather amazed at the amount of mostly grim responses, & that it's believed that saving a Drone's life is not worth it for most of you folks. Given in STO, in 2410, it is FAR easier than Trek series presented it, as the Borg in STO are not the top dogs anymore, technologically wise. Again, run the Delta Quad patrol with Hugh for reference.
Hehe.... Let's see.....
7 of 13: is actually a Liberated Terminator.... He kind of saw it as a systems upgrade... with a side effect.
Rappaccini: she actually cybernetically enhanced herself, it's not Borg tech.
Emani: sees it as a weapon to use to destroy her enemies.
Discussions with you always prove quite fruitful & enjoyable! I could go lengths about my character & her crew, but this is not the place. So TL;DR is, that assimilation is quite difficult to go through, and it will leave marks on anyone, the intensity of trauma varying based on the amount of time spent in the Collective and other various factors, as the previous personality of the assimilated person (assuming they did develop enough individuality prior...) etc, etc.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
you need to remember that if it were left up to the borg collective they would turn every sentient being in the entire galaxy into a borg drone or kill any that fight back with their superior firepower and defences.
if killing every borg is committing mass genocide in your opinion then what are the borg doing.
would you not class this as galactic slavery and mass genocide on an unprecedented scale.
are you implying that any who refuse to be enslaved by the borg and stripped of their individuality or wiped out do not have the right to defend themselves.
indeed their individuality does remain but it is imprisoned deep within, unable to control their actions or live their lives as they wish or even love another of their kind, yet they have committed no crime that deserves this imprisonment and isolation.
the borg are like a virus infecting others without remorse or feelings, with a total lack of empathy they are the quintessential Sociopath.
sure they can be liberated but they can never be completely cured, almost like a addict they are only a hairs breath away from being reintegrated into the collective at any given moment and any offspring they may have after they are liberated will probably carry that same dormant infection deep within their blood.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
you need to remember that if it were left up to the borg collective they would turn every sentient being in the entire galaxy into a borg drone or kill any that fight back with their superior firepower and defences.
if killing every borg is committing mass genocide in your opinion then what are the borg doing.
would you not class this as galactic slavery and mass genocide on an unprecedented scale.
are you implying that any who refuse to be enslaved by the borg and stripped of their individuality or wiped out do not have the right to defend themselves.
indeed their individuality does remain but it is imprisoned deep within, unable to control their actions or live their lives as they wish or even love another of their kind, yet they have committed no crime that deserves this imprisonment and isolation.
the borg are like a virus infecting others without remorse or feelings, with a total lack of empathy they are the quintessential Sociopath.
sure they can be liberated but they can never be completely cured, almost like a addict they are only a hairs breath away from being reintegrated into the collective at any given moment and any offspring they may have after they are liberated will probably carry that same dormant infection deep within their blood.
I don't know which is more disturbing: your prejudice toward liberated Borg, or that you justify genocide with genocide.
I love the smell of Caustic Plasma in the morning.
Sometimes you have to destroy a Cube to save it.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
you need to remember that if it were left up to the borg collective they would turn every sentient being in the entire galaxy into a borg drone or kill any that fight back with their superior firepower and defences.
if killing every borg is committing mass genocide in your opinion then what are the borg doing.
would you not class this as galactic slavery and mass genocide on an unprecedented scale.
are you implying that any who refuse to be enslaved by the borg and stripped of their individuality or wiped out do not have the right to defend themselves.
indeed their individuality does remain but it is imprisoned deep within, unable to control their actions or live their lives as they wish or even love another of their kind, yet they have committed no crime that deserves this imprisonment and isolation.
the borg are like a virus infecting others without remorse or feelings, with a total lack of empathy they are the quintessential Sociopath.
Up to this point I was able to see your logic...
sure they can be liberated but they can never be completely cured, almost like a addict they are only a hairs breath away from being reintegrated into the collective at any given moment and any offspring they may have after they are liberated will probably carry that same dormant infection deep within their blood.
This part is where I am not in complete agreement. I think it depends on the Liberated Borg in question, and I would decide on the security protocols to be applied on an individual basis.
For instance, we often forget that while he would fight that appellation tooth and nail, Jean-Luc Picard is in fact a "Liberated Borg." In his case his personality is so strong, and so much of the physical damage was reversed, that as far as I am concerned he is simply a Starfleet officer with PTSD. My own Liberated Borg, despite the severity of the physical damage done to her, is psychologically comparable to Picard. There is no chance, outside of being captured after putting up a hell of a fight, of her EVER winding up back in the Collective, and she's pretty darned hawkish when it comes to how the Collective should be dealt with. There is no sympathy to the Collective's philosophy, objectives, or modus operandi in her whatsoever. She also has a 40-year track record, by the STO time frame, that proves this unequivocally.
I'd also say that Hugh, despite not having any memories of a prior life, is a strong enough individual, defiant enough in his individuality that now that his individuality is not putting a lot of others (the Enterprise crew and more) at risk, that he'd die before he would ever go back. One opted to die rather than allow his 29th century tech to fall into the Collective's hands, despite his initial naive curiosity about the Collective.
Those freed earlier in Trekdom seem to have more strongly defined personalities and emotional ranges, such as Picard, and even Hugh, who despite no memories of a prior life (suggesting he may have even been assimilated as an infant), clearly ran the entire emotional gamut and showed zero signs of the kind of emotional suppression device that Seven had...or else he would've shut down from how distraught he was about the threat of his friends being assimilated, or from when he went on that angry teenage rant (he WAS physiologically an adolescent) in "Descent." My guess is that this principle applies to all who were freed as a part of Hugh's group, that we saw in "Descent." Even the ones who were really screwed up by Lore ditched the Collective's objectives pretty darned decisively in favor of Lore's cultish ideology. And when there were demands that they give up their mental privacy, significant defiance of that edict was apparently a problem Lore encountered.
Those liberated after First Contact, however, seem more likely to me to warrant special security scrutiny. Riley and her part of the Cooperative are an example, as is (IMO) Seven of Nine, who attempted to go back to the Collective multiple times and (if one pays attention to the Path to 2409) rejected her humanity AGAIN even after temporarily reasserting her name as Annika Hansen. In my stories, there is an example of a Liberated Borg Cardassian who took a lot of psychological damage, even worse than Seven, and while I didn't go in depth, I can tell you that recovery has not been as good as hoped, and appropriate security precautions are taken to include 24-7 monitoring (she has likely been declared mentally incompetent). She would come the closest to fitting your description, and that whole situation is debatable.
But, the overall point to this is that each individual situation is different, and I would not be comfortable with an across-the-board declaration. I also think the time period in which assimilation took place plays into it, as it seems the type of psychological damage done to the victims depends on age when assimilated (the earlier, the less prior personality to reassert itself), how long the enslavement lasted (shorter duration seems to mean less indoctrination to contend with and sometimes total defiance of the Collective), and what year the victim was freed (earlier Liberated appear to have much greater emotional range and even those with no memory of a prior personality can become as defiant as any non-Borg about keeping their personalities intact).
Regarding offspring, I admit that if any possibility of the newborn being contaminated with nanoprobes were to exist, that would be something I would be very wary of because even the best of intentions could go badly there. I think some Liberated Borg could hack it as an adoptive parent (Picard, for instance, I would trust implicitly, Hugh as well, maaaaybe Seven but that's pushing it IMO)...but there are likely others who could not and should not.
Discussions with you always prove quite fruitful & enjoyable! I could go lengths about my character & her crew, but this is not the place. So TL;DR is, that assimilation is quite difficult to go through, and it will leave marks on anyone, the intensity of trauma varying based on the amount of time spent in the Collective and other various factors, as the previous personality of the assimilated person (assuming they did develop enough individuality prior...) etc, etc.
Thanks, and perhaps we can chat sometime about it in those other venues. In some ways your statement succinctly summarizes the point I just made above.
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I kinda think some people would actually like it though. People have all sorts of weird POVs IRL... Humans aren't a monoculture.... Some people would voluntarily get assimilated... and LIKE it.
There probably are a few weird people willing to intentionally throw their individuality away, yes.
Me--if ONLY the physical enhancements were in question with NO loss of individuality and NO risk of being TRIBBLE, I might think about that aspect of it alone. But no messing with my mind under any circumstances.
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I could run quite deeply into T'Sara as well as a liberated drone along with her First officer who retains his borg designation rather than his real name. what motivates both of them, what drives them further, how they overcome their horrific past, what they were like before hand. a perspective on Romulans who rescued T'Sara and her friend and first officer from the collective and what they thought. What their future plans are towards the Collective and what scars remain for the rest of their natural lives.
It would be something of a grim tale to be sure. However it would add to the discussion if only a small part on what being a Borg is about and what an individual goes through by drawing from things like Religious ideas with after death or the prophets with sisko or even Tuvok in 7's mind and finally the Unimatrix dreaming. to give a constructive arena to build off.
could convince others what a person stuck inside the borg is like and if it really is worth the price to treat each borg like a TRIBBLE from a larger war machine.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
There probably are a few weird people willing to intentionally throw their individuality away, yes.
Me--if ONLY the physical enhancements were in question with NO loss of individuality and NO risk of being TRIBBLE, I might think about that aspect of it alone. But no messing with my mind under any circumstances.
the question was never really answered, but this sounds like Cooperative territory, one borg as one point had to be reminded to stay linked to Kursus, indicating that even though Huge was not a part of that borg faction, they could in fact detach themselves at will from the others without being forced to do so.
Thus, one could argue, would it be acceptable/possible to ask the Cooperative to BE borg, as long as they where NOT linked and could choose for themselves and link only as needed to help the Cooperative, other then that living like they did before a Cooperative assimilation.
Another Argument would be, after a Cooperative assimilation, could the Hive Mind hack the tech on that borg making it a Hive Mind drone.
I kinda see the Collective as a bit like a cell phone network. But one you're stuck with. the version used by the Cooperative is similar, except the individual Borg can shut it off when they want.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
A lot of "good" and "help" could come from the Cooperative, if I remember right, they didn't attack anyone, so THOSE drones where like allies to everyone lol.
I wonder if the borg Cooperative if they where around in this time would hook up with the people from like, Micrion, that would be interesting to see, we would end up having some epic borg tech going on. if of course there was some kind of temporal incursion.
Comments
Genocide is usually referred to when civilians are involved. Those whom are killed by SF are military.
Also: Kill one man and it's murder, kill a thousand and it's a tragedy, kill a million and it's an statistic.
Under exigent circumstances (like the threat of being extinguished themselves, by the Undine), the Borg Queen in Voyager showed they can be bargained with, to a small degree, but otherwise the Borg -- even though the Devs here made them an impotent joke -- in 'reality' are a clear and present danger to our entire Galaxy. Aka, kill on sight, and don't blink.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
lets exterminate all borgs.
As long as we win, all will be forgiven and forgotten..and if we don't win then we really won't care what is said
(how many massacres and genocides have happened in history and been justified/hidden by the victors do you think?)
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The best path
ALL borg where once individuals, and still can be.
The Feds then kindly pick them up and take them back home. They give them cake.
The Klingons fly away because there's no glory in shooting cowardly fish in a barrel. (Only cowards would refuse to die in battle after all)
The Romulans offer a chance to go work with D'Tan. Those that agree find themselves on New Romulus tagging Epohhs. Those that disagree discover that Commander Kurland now has their phone number.
Until then, to 'Hell's Heart' they must be sent.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
apparently so lol, but as for the OP's suggestion, the Mods where kind enough to leave it up in this thread, samt1996 has a valid point behind that, borg babies wouldn't know anything about what to do next after they grew into drones.
This is just the way I interpreted it, but there was a big difference running that patrol backed by Hugh's firepower (which was very impressive) and technical support, than attempting that without his considerable assistance. Given that we don't have that when we act on our own, it's still to my mind a very risky proposition under normal circumstances. But again, I think there is room for multiple perspectives and interpretations of the same episode. (You should see my "dissertation" on "Butterfly"!
Liberating individuals one at a time or in small groups, yeah, that probably does happen somewhat more often and as mentioned before, even my captains, in their pragmatism, do not completely rule it out as an option and have done it successfully on occasion.
Fanficcy stuff:
The result was a pretty serious case of post-traumatic stress disorder that fit most of the clinical signs you'd expect from human who was tortured/violated, and suffered severely disfiguring injuries. Part of the reason she's only a commander in 2410, when you consider when her assimilation took place, is that she left Starfleet for a while to get her head straight. Early in that period was when the depression became so severe that she almost took her own life. She's made a lot of improvements since then and ended up returning to Starfleet when there first started to be rumblings that the Borg might return in force. Still, even with all the progress she's made, and the great support she has from her commander and her counselor, you can definitely still tell that the experience left its psychological mark on her in addition to the physical disfigurement.
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7 of 13: is actually a Liberated Terminator.... He kind of saw it as a systems upgrade... with a side effect.
Rappaccini: she actually cybernetically enhanced herself, it's not Borg tech.
Emani: sees it as a weapon to use to destroy her enemies. #TerminatorsArePeopleToo
My character Tsin'xing
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if killing every borg is committing mass genocide in your opinion then what are the borg doing.
would you not class this as galactic slavery and mass genocide on an unprecedented scale.
are you implying that any who refuse to be enslaved by the borg and stripped of their individuality or wiped out do not have the right to defend themselves.
indeed their individuality does remain but it is imprisoned deep within, unable to control their actions or live their lives as they wish or even love another of their kind, yet they have committed no crime that deserves this imprisonment and isolation.
the borg are like a virus infecting others without remorse or feelings, with a total lack of empathy they are the quintessential Sociopath.
sure they can be liberated but they can never be completely cured, almost like a addict they are only a hairs breath away from being reintegrated into the collective at any given moment and any offspring they may have after they are liberated will probably carry that same dormant infection deep within their blood.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
STO Resources: <Ship Comparison - All Tiers + Small Craft + Hangar Pets> <Damage Resistance>
<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
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Sometimes you have to destroy a Cube to save it.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Up to this point I was able to see your logic...
This part is where I am not in complete agreement. I think it depends on the Liberated Borg in question, and I would decide on the security protocols to be applied on an individual basis.
For instance, we often forget that while he would fight that appellation tooth and nail, Jean-Luc Picard is in fact a "Liberated Borg." In his case his personality is so strong, and so much of the physical damage was reversed, that as far as I am concerned he is simply a Starfleet officer with PTSD. My own Liberated Borg, despite the severity of the physical damage done to her, is psychologically comparable to Picard. There is no chance, outside of being captured after putting up a hell of a fight, of her EVER winding up back in the Collective, and she's pretty darned hawkish when it comes to how the Collective should be dealt with. There is no sympathy to the Collective's philosophy, objectives, or modus operandi in her whatsoever. She also has a 40-year track record, by the STO time frame, that proves this unequivocally.
I'd also say that Hugh, despite not having any memories of a prior life, is a strong enough individual, defiant enough in his individuality that now that his individuality is not putting a lot of others (the Enterprise crew and more) at risk, that he'd die before he would ever go back. One opted to die rather than allow his 29th century tech to fall into the Collective's hands, despite his initial naive curiosity about the Collective.
Those freed earlier in Trekdom seem to have more strongly defined personalities and emotional ranges, such as Picard, and even Hugh, who despite no memories of a prior life (suggesting he may have even been assimilated as an infant), clearly ran the entire emotional gamut and showed zero signs of the kind of emotional suppression device that Seven had...or else he would've shut down from how distraught he was about the threat of his friends being assimilated, or from when he went on that angry teenage rant (he WAS physiologically an adolescent) in "Descent." My guess is that this principle applies to all who were freed as a part of Hugh's group, that we saw in "Descent." Even the ones who were really screwed up by Lore ditched the Collective's objectives pretty darned decisively in favor of Lore's cultish ideology. And when there were demands that they give up their mental privacy, significant defiance of that edict was apparently a problem Lore encountered.
Those liberated after First Contact, however, seem more likely to me to warrant special security scrutiny. Riley and her part of the Cooperative are an example, as is (IMO) Seven of Nine, who attempted to go back to the Collective multiple times and (if one pays attention to the Path to 2409) rejected her humanity AGAIN even after temporarily reasserting her name as Annika Hansen. In my stories, there is an example of a Liberated Borg Cardassian who took a lot of psychological damage, even worse than Seven, and while I didn't go in depth, I can tell you that recovery has not been as good as hoped, and appropriate security precautions are taken to include 24-7 monitoring (she has likely been declared mentally incompetent). She would come the closest to fitting your description, and that whole situation is debatable.
But, the overall point to this is that each individual situation is different, and I would not be comfortable with an across-the-board declaration. I also think the time period in which assimilation took place plays into it, as it seems the type of psychological damage done to the victims depends on age when assimilated (the earlier, the less prior personality to reassert itself), how long the enslavement lasted (shorter duration seems to mean less indoctrination to contend with and sometimes total defiance of the Collective), and what year the victim was freed (earlier Liberated appear to have much greater emotional range and even those with no memory of a prior personality can become as defiant as any non-Borg about keeping their personalities intact).
Regarding offspring, I admit that if any possibility of the newborn being contaminated with nanoprobes were to exist, that would be something I would be very wary of because even the best of intentions could go badly there. I think some Liberated Borg could hack it as an adoptive parent (Picard, for instance, I would trust implicitly, Hugh as well, maaaaybe Seven but that's pushing it IMO)...but there are likely others who could not and should not.
Thanks, and perhaps we can chat sometime about it in those other venues.
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My character Tsin'xing
Me--if ONLY the physical enhancements were in question with NO loss of individuality and NO risk of being TRIBBLE, I might think about that aspect of it alone. But no messing with my mind under any circumstances.
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It would be something of a grim tale to be sure. However it would add to the discussion if only a small part on what being a Borg is about and what an individual goes through by drawing from things like Religious ideas with after death or the prophets with sisko or even Tuvok in 7's mind and finally the Unimatrix dreaming. to give a constructive arena to build off.
could convince others what a person stuck inside the borg is like and if it really is worth the price to treat each borg like a TRIBBLE from a larger war machine.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
the question was never really answered, but this sounds like Cooperative territory, one borg as one point had to be reminded to stay linked to Kursus, indicating that even though Huge was not a part of that borg faction, they could in fact detach themselves at will from the others without being forced to do so.
Thus, one could argue, would it be acceptable/possible to ask the Cooperative to BE borg, as long as they where NOT linked and could choose for themselves and link only as needed to help the Cooperative, other then that living like they did before a Cooperative assimilation.
Another Argument would be, after a Cooperative assimilation, could the Hive Mind hack the tech on that borg making it a Hive Mind drone.
My character Tsin'xing
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'