Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
Star Wars EU had grown into an expansive, entangling web. There is no era in SWEU that you can make a new movie in without stepping on someone's canon, somewhere and too many acknowledgements to make if you want to keep within the SWEU continuity.
Nuking SWEU was the only possible outcome to get the freedom a new SW movie needed to make. There were certain elements in SWEU which I truly adored like Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" which to me felt like an extension of the Original Trilogy. Then there were most everything else.
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As for Kylo Ren, there's other important things going on with him.
1. He isn't fully trained - Supreme Leader orders the General to round up his runt and bring him to him so that he can complete his training.
2. He is head of the "Knights of Ren" - I can't recall exactly who but it was either the General or the Supreme Leader mentioning Kylo Ren as head of that group.
The "Sith" of the First Order / The Force Awakens has slight differences from the past. I have yet to hear the "Supreme Leader" referred to anything but that title. He and Kylo Ren do not use the traditional "Darth" title.
The "Knights of Ren" has little mention but it has been brought up. Again, Kylo Ren is the head of the group. There are many questions about them. Are they a group of Dark Side Force Users? I'm not sure. In the memory flashes of Kylo Ren butchering students that Luke taught, other figures gathered around him briefly. All but Kylo Ren were not using lightsabers but holding blasters and "normal" hand weapons.
Either way, the next movie should flesh that out some. I expect Kylo Ren to become more powerful in the Dark Side and we'll see visual changes in him. He was powerful but not that powerful because he was totally conflicted. More than anything he wanted to be as powerful as Darth Vader. He didn't look to his parents or his uncle Luke as inspiration. He specifically looked to Darth Vader but repeatedly comes up as wanting. For as angry and vicious as he was he didn't want to face his parents, which Leia & Han thought would be their opening to bring him back.
Kylo Ren facing Han Solo on that catwalk was one of those big Star Wars moments of "choice." The films have seen those choices cut both ways. Kyrlo Ren could have come back. Han's efforts almost worked. You saw the internal conflict in Kylo Ren. He was half-way in handing over his lightsaber but began to struggle in letting it go. It worked for Luke Skywalker in redeeming Anakin Skywalker. But it was a Star Wars moment that went the other way. With the killing of his father, Kylo Ren, like Anakin, crossed that line that he and the Supreme Leader knew he was struggling to cross. He crossed it. Now he is truly ready to fully embrace his more advanced training.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
Lightsabers were always plasma weapons. Plasma contained in a forcefield, but plasma nonetheless. While I have no sources to go from (not checking Wookieepedia right now), it may be that the inferior craftsmanship of Ren's saber necessitated the vents.
That's confirmed. Ren's lightsaber uses a cracked focusing crystal which can't fully contain the blade, necessitating the vents.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Lightsabers were always plasma weapons. Plasma contained in a forcefield, but plasma nonetheless. While I have no sources to go from (not checking Wookieepedia right now), it may be that the inferior craftsmanship of Ren's saber necessitated the vents.
That's confirmed. Ren's lightsaber uses a cracked focusing crystal which can't fully contain the blade, necessitating the vents.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
The "Knights of Ren" has little mention but it has been brought up. Again, Kylo Ren is the head of the group. There are many questions about them. Are they a group of Dark Side Force Users? I'm not sure. In the memory flashes of Kylo Ren butchering students that Luke taught, other figures gathered around him briefly. All but Kylo Ren were not using lightsabers but holding blasters and "normal" hand weapons.
And now I have to wonder how long ago that was. It wasn't too recent, but it couldn't have been more than a few years ago.
Lightsabers were always plasma weapons. Plasma contained in a forcefield, but plasma nonetheless. While I have no sources to go from (not checking Wookieepedia right now), it may be that the inferior craftsmanship of Ren's saber necessitated the vents.
That's confirmed. Ren's lightsaber uses a cracked focusing crystal which can't fully contain the blade, necessitating the vents.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... The arc of Jacen Solo could easily have been used to create Kylo Ren, even if not 100% as per his EU appearances... (Just as in Blade, Deacon Frost was very different to the character of the same name in the original comics) As before, I can understand (ish) why they wanted to ditch the EU, but from what I have read, the character sounds like such a pastiche of Jacen Solo and Kyp Durron, I have to ask "What's the point?" If the only issue is of licensing rights, I would have thought that Disney has the clout and $$s to buy the rights to a character (they certainly did for Mary Poppins) and as a writer, I would certainly feel honored if someone doing a film of a franchise had written for, asked to not only use one of my characters, but to pay me for the privilege as well. As before, I'm basing that, on the standing that the EU characters are already established, and already have fans who are invested in them (although I did hear about some freaks having Daisy Ridley's portrait as Rey tattooed before the film was even released... That's not 'being a fan', that's 'being obsessive' and needs handling accordingly, such as when Miley Cyrus blocked the freak who had dozens of tattoos of her name and portraits all over him...)
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... T
I enjoy the EU a lot, and this new movie doesn't change that at all. Having said that, if I had to choose between seeing a movie where I already know the story or a movie where I have no idea what is going to happen, I prefer the latter. It's more fun to be surprised, to me. As much as I enjoy the EU, I already know that story.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... T
I enjoy the EU a lot, and this new movie doesn't change that at all. Having said that, if I had to choose between seeing a movie where I already know the story or a movie where I have no idea what is going to happen, I prefer the latter. It's more fun to be surprised, to me. As much as I enjoy the EU, I already know that story.
I totally understand that, but as I said, perhaps that should then involve a totally new character, who cannot be compared to existing ones who were eliminated just so they could come up with new characters (and then not do that)
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... T
I enjoy the EU a lot, and this new movie doesn't change that at all. Having said that, if I had to choose between seeing a movie where I already know the story or a movie where I have no idea what is going to happen, I prefer the latter. It's more fun to be surprised, to me. As much as I enjoy the EU, I already know that story.
I totally understand that, but as I said, perhaps that should then involve a totally new character, who cannot be compared to existing ones who were eliminated just so they could come up with new characters (and then not do that)
In my opinion(key word), Kylo/Ben is a new character. Yes, he can be compared to various EU characters, but there are people who are going to compare anything, so that doesn't bother me. If it bothers you, or someone else, that is also fine. We are each entitled to our opinions, and neither is more right or wrong than the other. But no matter how they do it, someone is going to have a complaint or wish they had done it a different way. I actually have a few things I didn't like about the movie, although Kylo being Han's son wasn't one of them.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... T
I enjoy the EU a lot, and this new movie doesn't change that at all. Having said that, if I had to choose between seeing a movie where I already know the story or a movie where I have no idea what is going to happen, I prefer the latter. It's more fun to be surprised, to me. As much as I enjoy the EU, I already know that story.
I totally understand that, but as I said, perhaps that should then involve a totally new character, who cannot be compared to existing ones who were eliminated just so they could come up with new characters (and then not do that)
In my opinion(key word), Kylo/Ben is a new character. Yes, he can be compared to various EU characters, but there are people who are going to compare anything, so that doesn't bother me. If it bothers you, or someone else, that is also fine. We are each entitled to our opinions, and neither is more right or wrong than the other. But no matter how they do it, someone is going to have a complaint or wish they had done it a different way. I actually have a few things I didn't like about the movie, although Kylo being Han's son wasn't one of them.
Yes, new in so much as 'different name', but the comparison to the EU characters is so strong, he is essentially just an amalgam of said characters, so not what I would want to call 'an original character', and if the plan was to jettison the EU so as to do 'something original', IMHO this does not qualify as original... For example, Poe could quite easily have been Han's son... Having a guy trying to track down his lost uncle sounds a reasonable plot... All JJ has done, is inverted the father/son dynamic between Vader and Luke (because apparently his work often features a dysfunctional father/son relationship) and from what I read, re-do A New Hope (which is also totally JJ's MO) And to do that to, not just a franchise, but one where the EU is what has essentially kept said franchise alive, is massively uncool. I think the most original thing I've seen so far about the Force Awakens, is a black storm trooper, and a droid resembling a beach ball (and a stupid lightsaber ) For someone going to rake in millions of dollars for a movie, I would expect much more effort to have been made...
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... T
I enjoy the EU a lot, and this new movie doesn't change that at all. Having said that, if I had to choose between seeing a movie where I already know the story or a movie where I have no idea what is going to happen, I prefer the latter. It's more fun to be surprised, to me. As much as I enjoy the EU, I already know that story.
I totally understand that, but as I said, perhaps that should then involve a totally new character, who cannot be compared to existing ones who were eliminated just so they could come up with new characters (and then not do that)
In my opinion(key word), Kylo/Ben is a new character. Yes, he can be compared to various EU characters, but there are people who are going to compare anything, so that doesn't bother me. If it bothers you, or someone else, that is also fine. We are each entitled to our opinions, and neither is more right or wrong than the other. But no matter how they do it, someone is going to have a complaint or wish they had done it a different way. I actually have a few things I didn't like about the movie, although Kylo being Han's son wasn't one of them.
Yes, new in so much as 'different name', but the comparison to the EU characters is so strong, he is essentially just an amalgam of said characters, so not what I would want to call 'an original character', and if the plan was to jettison the EU so as to do 'something original', IMHO this does not qualify as original... For example, Poe could quite easily have been Han's son... Having a guy trying to track down his lost uncle sounds a reasonable plot... All JJ has done, is inverted the father/son dynamic between Vader and Luke (because apparently his work often features a dysfunctional father/son relationship) and from what I read, re-do A New Hope (which is also totally JJ's MO) And to do that to, not just a franchise, but one where the EU is what has essentially kept said franchise alive, is massively uncool. I think the most original thing I've seen so far about the Force Awakens, is a black storm trooper, and a droid resembling a beach ball (and a stupid lightsaber ) For someone going to rake in millions of dollars for a movie, I would expect much more effort to have been made...
Look, I understand your point... just like I understood it when you made it earlier. It just doesn't bother me like it bothers you. I'm not saying you are wrong...because there is no right or wrong here.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... T
I enjoy the EU a lot, and this new movie doesn't change that at all. Having said that, if I had to choose between seeing a movie where I already know the story or a movie where I have no idea what is going to happen, I prefer the latter. It's more fun to be surprised, to me. As much as I enjoy the EU, I already know that story.
I totally understand that, but as I said, perhaps that should then involve a totally new character, who cannot be compared to existing ones who were eliminated just so they could come up with new characters (and then not do that)
In my opinion(key word), Kylo/Ben is a new character. Yes, he can be compared to various EU characters, but there are people who are going to compare anything, so that doesn't bother me. If it bothers you, or someone else, that is also fine. We are each entitled to our opinions, and neither is more right or wrong than the other. But no matter how they do it, someone is going to have a complaint or wish they had done it a different way. I actually have a few things I didn't like about the movie, although Kylo being Han's son wasn't one of them.
Yes, new in so much as 'different name', but the comparison to the EU characters is so strong, he is essentially just an amalgam of said characters, so not what I would want to call 'an original character', and if the plan was to jettison the EU so as to do 'something original', IMHO this does not qualify as original... For example, Poe could quite easily have been Han's son... Having a guy trying to track down his lost uncle sounds a reasonable plot... All JJ has done, is inverted the father/son dynamic between Vader and Luke (because apparently his work often features a dysfunctional father/son relationship) and from what I read, re-do A New Hope (which is also totally JJ's MO) And to do that to, not just a franchise, but one where the EU is what has essentially kept said franchise alive, is massively uncool. I think the most original thing I've seen so far about the Force Awakens, is a black storm trooper, and a droid resembling a beach ball (and a stupid lightsaber ) For someone going to rake in millions of dollars for a movie, I would expect much more effort to have been made...
Look, I understand your point... just like I understood it when you made it earlier. It just doesn't bother me like it bothers you. I'm not saying you are wrong...because there is no right or wrong here.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... The arc of Jacen Solo could easily have been used to create Kylo Ren, even if not 100% as per his EU appearances... (Just as in Blade, Deacon Frost was very different to the character of the same name in the original comics) As before, I can understand (ish) why they wanted to ditch the EU, but from what I have read, the character sounds like such a pastiche of Jacen Solo and Kyp Durron, I have to ask "What's the point?" If the only issue is of licensing rights, I would have thought that Disney has the clout and $$s to buy the rights to a character (they certainly did for Mary Poppins) and as a writer, I would certainly feel honored if someone doing a film of a franchise had written for, asked to not only use one of my characters, but to pay me for the privilege as well. As before, I'm basing that, on the standing that the EU characters are already established, and already have fans who are invested in them (although I did hear about some freaks having Daisy Ridley's portrait as Rey tattooed before the film was even released... That's not 'being a fan', that's 'being obsessive' and needs handling accordingly, such as when Miley Cyrus blocked the freak who had dozens of tattoos of her name and portraits all over him...)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying the way to avoid comparisons between similar characters (e.g. Kylo Ren and Jacen Solo) is to just rip off that character? Why would they use Jacen's arc to create Kylo? Of course there are similarities (son of Han Solo going dark), but the characters' backgrounds are very different; for example, Kylo is apparently an only child, Jacen had two siblings.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
The "Knights of Ren" has little mention but it has been brought up. Again, Kylo Ren is the head of the group. There are many questions about them. Are they a group of Dark Side Force Users? I'm not sure. In the memory flashes of Kylo Ren butchering students that Luke taught, other figures gathered around him briefly. All but Kylo Ren were not using lightsabers but holding blasters and "normal" hand weapons.
And now I have to wonder how long ago that was. It wasn't too recent, but it couldn't have been more than a few years ago.
I'd have to agree, a few years tops. Made even easier since Kylo Ren is still fairly young and not some little runt when he cut down his former classmates
I really loved this film. And thank goodness they did throw out the EU and not bother with having to get the film to fit into a tangled mesh of internally contradictory, often badly written, stuff.
I'm also glad they set up characters like Phasma for the next film, it gives a way to introduce her without having to have too many side plots and to increase her role next film without having to introduce her.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
One issue I did have was the occasionally clunky dialogue. Snork especially spoke in some stilted exposition.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm wondering if Rey could have been a survivor of the massacre of the Jedi by Ren. Luke collects her and drops her off on Jakku to keep her hidden. I prefer this to the numerous theories that she's Luke's or Han's child as that would involve abandoning her. At least when Luke was abandoned he had Obi-Wan nearby.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm wondering if Rey could have been a survivor of the massacre of the Jedi by Ren. Luke collects her and drops her off on Jakku to keep her hidden. I prefer this to the numerous theories that she's Luke's or Han's child as that would involve abandoning her. At least when Luke was abandoned he had Obi-Wan nearby.
I don't think so. Rey had no knowledge or training in the use of the Force. If anything, I believe her to be a Skywalker. Some of this may be a stretch, mind you
1. Han & Leia were pretty open about Ben being their son and I saw no reason for them to hide another child.
2. With the Solos out of the picture, the only Skywalker left is Luke Skywalker. So I'm assuming she's his daughter but doesn't know.
3. That relic lightsaber "reacted" to her. When we see that lightsaber, it was Anakin Skywalker's, the same that Obi-Wan took at Mustafar, the same one that Obi-Wan gave to Luke before their departure of Tatooine, the same one that Luke lost with his hand in his first fight with Darth Vader. That lightsaber holds a lot of Skywalker history, both good and bad and I think it's no coincidence it "reacted" to her. When the lightsaber was held by Finn, it did nothing. It was simply a weapon. Only when Rey touched it did it "react."
** Edit: When Kylo Ren defeated Finn, that same lightsaber was stuck in the snow. Just like it was in Empire Strikes Back when Luke was captured by the Wampa on Hoth. He was trapped, suspended, that same lightsaber was stuck, and Luke used the Force to free it and bring it to his hands. In The Force Awakens, despite Kylo Ren's better mastery of the Force than Rey, the lightsaber went to her. Maybe due to her inherent affinity with the Force overcoming her inexperience, but IMO, it says a lot.
4. Despite having no knowledge nor training of the Force, she very quickly became adept in it, surprising even Kylo Ren who tried to interrogate her.
5. She's a good pilot! Not as good as Anakin or Luke were, but hey, she's good!
6. She has a way with tinkering, fixing machines. Just like Anakin and Luke did.
7. She's a sucker for droids! Just like Anakin and Luke were!
8. Rey called Jakku home, a desert planet. Anakin & Luke both had their roots in Tatooine, also a desert planet.
Too many things attributed to Anakin & Luke Skywalker are found in Rey. If anything, I believe her to be a Skywalker but hidden when things started going to hell. I'm guessing Luke had her hidden for protection, the same way he and Leia were.
However, there very well may be other details in the movie I'm forgetting that could throw everything I said out the picture.
I agree, I'm glad Phasma was given an introduction in this movie. To me, she looks like the spiritual successor to Boba Fett.
I'm just happy they have some villains I want to see more of. I want to see more of Capt Phasma and Kylo Ren. The latter's development after killing his own father will be interesting to see.
A huge mistake Lucas did in the Prequels, IMO, was killing off some rather cool villains before they could really make a bigger mark in the films: Darth Maul, Jango Fett.
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
So the logical solution, to avoid comparison to a character, it to just use that character... Then there is no comparison of one to the other, just critique or appreciation for how said character is translated from novel to film... The arc of Jacen Solo could easily have been used to create Kylo Ren, even if not 100% as per his EU appearances... (Just as in Blade, Deacon Frost was very different to the character of the same name in the original comics) As before, I can understand (ish) why they wanted to ditch the EU, but from what I have read, the character sounds like such a pastiche of Jacen Solo and Kyp Durron, I have to ask "What's the point?" If the only issue is of licensing rights, I would have thought that Disney has the clout and $$s to buy the rights to a character (they certainly did for Mary Poppins) and as a writer, I would certainly feel honored if someone doing a film of a franchise had written for, asked to not only use one of my characters, but to pay me for the privilege as well. As before, I'm basing that, on the standing that the EU characters are already established, and already have fans who are invested in them (although I did hear about some freaks having Daisy Ridley's portrait as Rey tattooed before the film was even released... That's not 'being a fan', that's 'being obsessive' and needs handling accordingly, such as when Miley Cyrus blocked the freak who had dozens of tattoos of her name and portraits all over him...)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying the way to avoid comparisons between similar characters (e.g. Kylo Ren and Jacen Solo) is to just rip off that character? Why would they use Jacen's arc to create Kylo? Of course there are similarities (son of Han Solo going dark), but the characters' backgrounds are very different; for example, Kylo is apparently an only child, Jacen had two siblings.
Not 'rip off', but use. As above, the Deacon Frost of the comic and movie, are quite different, so adaptions could be made if necessary, but I don't see why Jacen could not have simply been used in space of Kylo, and Jaina used instead of Rey. The 'rip off' comes from having Kylo being a very obvious and un-subtle fusion of Jacen and Kyp Durron (with Ben Skywalker's name tagged on) Using the EU character would i) solve the issue of unfavorable comparisons, and ii) not be beyond Disney's scope to obtain the permissions to use. As I said, I can see why they felt they didn't want to be constrained by the EU, but ditching the EU, and then essentially just cloning the character, is just lazy writing and almost counter-intuitive...
Hehe, comparing chars to the EU is exactly why Disney tossed it. They had two choices, make movies out of books, which probably had licensing issues, or make movies with their own story.
they could have simply come up with completely fresh new characters (which some of them are, such as Finn) to avoid the comparison completely...
This is the part where I challenge you to come up with a definition for "completely fresh" that doesn't preclude them from using concepts like "Han Solo's son", yet still prevents fans from comparing the new character to the guy in the books.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
Well... maybe Han's son would be a smuggler or a soldier, like his father before him?
I honestly have to agree with Marcus on this one - it's like they took Jacen and decided to have him kill his father instead of Mara Jade.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Random thought...
How does one aim a planet bound gun?
And how does one re-fire the "planet gun", when it takes the only sun you've got, to fire it once?
No idea. The same way you generate a "faster than light" beam that moves visibly slower than light, I suppose.
Light travels really slow if you think about it. It takes like 8 minutes for sunlight to reach earth. That beamed reached those planets and moons significantly faster I think. Even so, the beam itself may be invisible per se given how it travels at FTL speeds, but the "light" or plasma it emits is still restricted to the laws of physics and may therefore move out of FTL and travel at your speed of light limit... hence what they may have seen was the light emitted and not the actual beam itself.
*********
As for aiming a planetary weapon, it is easy to forget that the beam itself split into several homing ones in the movie. In addition, a planet has a 360 rotational arc (daily cycle) so you just have to wait for the right time of the day to fire. As for the sun, they never stated that it takes an entire star to charge the weapon once. They did say that the weapons will consume the star for each recharge cycle until there is no star left.
Regarding Rey's parents, there are 2 key points to remember:
1) she was NOT a baby when she was left on Jakku. In the flashback she looked maybe 5? Either way, she was old enough to remember who her parents are/were.
2) When she met Finn, she thought Luke was a myth/not real.
If Luke were her father, she would have remembered him and known he was real. If Han were her father, she would have recognized him. The only way they can get around this is if they claim Luke used the Force to erase her memory.
I agree, I'm glad Phasma was given an introduction in this movie. To me, she looks like the spiritual successor to Boba Fett.
I'm just happy they have some villains I want to see more of. I want to see more of Capt Phasma and Kylo Ren. The latter's development after killing his own father will be interesting to see.
A huge mistake Lucas did in the Prequels, IMO, was killing off some rather cool villains before they could really make a bigger mark in the films: Darth Maul, Jango Fett.
Thankfully TCW fixed that by bringing Maul back.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Comments
Star Wars EU had grown into an expansive, entangling web. There is no era in SWEU that you can make a new movie in without stepping on someone's canon, somewhere and too many acknowledgements to make if you want to keep within the SWEU continuity.
Nuking SWEU was the only possible outcome to get the freedom a new SW movie needed to make. There were certain elements in SWEU which I truly adored like Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" which to me felt like an extension of the Original Trilogy. Then there were most everything else.
====
As for Kylo Ren, there's other important things going on with him.
1. He isn't fully trained - Supreme Leader orders the General to round up his runt and bring him to him so that he can complete his training.
2. He is head of the "Knights of Ren" - I can't recall exactly who but it was either the General or the Supreme Leader mentioning Kylo Ren as head of that group.
The "Sith" of the First Order / The Force Awakens has slight differences from the past. I have yet to hear the "Supreme Leader" referred to anything but that title. He and Kylo Ren do not use the traditional "Darth" title.
The "Knights of Ren" has little mention but it has been brought up. Again, Kylo Ren is the head of the group. There are many questions about them. Are they a group of Dark Side Force Users? I'm not sure. In the memory flashes of Kylo Ren butchering students that Luke taught, other figures gathered around him briefly. All but Kylo Ren were not using lightsabers but holding blasters and "normal" hand weapons.
Either way, the next movie should flesh that out some. I expect Kylo Ren to become more powerful in the Dark Side and we'll see visual changes in him. He was powerful but not that powerful because he was totally conflicted. More than anything he wanted to be as powerful as Darth Vader. He didn't look to his parents or his uncle Luke as inspiration. He specifically looked to Darth Vader but repeatedly comes up as wanting. For as angry and vicious as he was he didn't want to face his parents, which Leia & Han thought would be their opening to bring him back.
Kylo Ren facing Han Solo on that catwalk was one of those big Star Wars moments of "choice." The films have seen those choices cut both ways. Kyrlo Ren could have come back. Han's efforts almost worked. You saw the internal conflict in Kylo Ren. He was half-way in handing over his lightsaber but began to struggle in letting it go. It worked for Luke Skywalker in redeeming Anakin Skywalker. But it was a Star Wars moment that went the other way. With the killing of his father, Kylo Ren, like Anakin, crossed that line that he and the Supreme Leader knew he was struggling to cross. He crossed it. Now he is truly ready to fully embrace his more advanced training.
What? You say that's unfair and undoable? Like duh... that's the reason I challenged you to do it. Any character who is the son of Han Solo will be compared to every other character who is the son of Han Solo. For no other reason but "son of Han Solo". Why? Because fans are jerks like that.
My character Tsin'xing
That's confirmed. Ren's lightsaber uses a cracked focusing crystal which can't fully contain the blade, necessitating the vents.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Interesting... Where did you hear that?
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
My character Tsin'xing
It "officially" comes from this book, which I believe is Disney canon:
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Awakens-Visual-Dictionary/dp/1465438165/
Here is the page about Kylo's saber:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91ppNTY8QVL.jpg
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I enjoy the EU a lot, and this new movie doesn't change that at all. Having said that, if I had to choose between seeing a movie where I already know the story or a movie where I have no idea what is going to happen, I prefer the latter. It's more fun to be surprised, to me. As much as I enjoy the EU, I already know that story.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
In my opinion(key word), Kylo/Ben is a new character. Yes, he can be compared to various EU characters, but there are people who are going to compare anything, so that doesn't bother me. If it bothers you, or someone else, that is also fine. We are each entitled to our opinions, and neither is more right or wrong than the other. But no matter how they do it, someone is going to have a complaint or wish they had done it a different way. I actually have a few things I didn't like about the movie, although Kylo being Han's son wasn't one of them.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yes, new in so much as 'different name', but the comparison to the EU characters is so strong, he is essentially just an amalgam of said characters, so not what I would want to call 'an original character', and if the plan was to jettison the EU so as to do 'something original', IMHO this does not qualify as original... For example, Poe could quite easily have been Han's son... Having a guy trying to track down his lost uncle sounds a reasonable plot... All JJ has done, is inverted the father/son dynamic between Vader and Luke (because apparently his work often features a dysfunctional father/son relationship) and from what I read, re-do A New Hope (which is also totally JJ's MO) And to do that to, not just a franchise, but one where the EU is what has essentially kept said franchise alive, is massively uncool. I think the most original thing I've seen so far about the Force Awakens, is a black storm trooper, and a droid resembling a beach ball (and a stupid lightsaber
Look, I understand your point... just like I understood it when you made it earlier. It just doesn't bother me like it bothers you. I'm not saying you are wrong...because there is no right or wrong here.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying the way to avoid comparisons between similar characters (e.g. Kylo Ren and Jacen Solo) is to just rip off that character? Why would they use Jacen's arc to create Kylo? Of course there are similarities (son of Han Solo going dark), but the characters' backgrounds are very different; for example, Kylo is apparently an only child, Jacen had two siblings.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
I'd have to agree, a few years tops. Made even easier since Kylo Ren is still fairly young and not some little runt when he cut down his former classmates
I'm also glad they set up characters like Phasma for the next film, it gives a way to introduce her without having to have too many side plots and to increase her role next film without having to introduce her.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I don't think so. Rey had no knowledge or training in the use of the Force. If anything, I believe her to be a Skywalker. Some of this may be a stretch, mind you
1. Han & Leia were pretty open about Ben being their son and I saw no reason for them to hide another child.
2. With the Solos out of the picture, the only Skywalker left is Luke Skywalker. So I'm assuming she's his daughter but doesn't know.
3. That relic lightsaber "reacted" to her. When we see that lightsaber, it was Anakin Skywalker's, the same that Obi-Wan took at Mustafar, the same one that Obi-Wan gave to Luke before their departure of Tatooine, the same one that Luke lost with his hand in his first fight with Darth Vader. That lightsaber holds a lot of Skywalker history, both good and bad and I think it's no coincidence it "reacted" to her. When the lightsaber was held by Finn, it did nothing. It was simply a weapon. Only when Rey touched it did it "react."
** Edit: When Kylo Ren defeated Finn, that same lightsaber was stuck in the snow. Just like it was in Empire Strikes Back when Luke was captured by the Wampa on Hoth. He was trapped, suspended, that same lightsaber was stuck, and Luke used the Force to free it and bring it to his hands. In The Force Awakens, despite Kylo Ren's better mastery of the Force than Rey, the lightsaber went to her. Maybe due to her inherent affinity with the Force overcoming her inexperience, but IMO, it says a lot.
4. Despite having no knowledge nor training of the Force, she very quickly became adept in it, surprising even Kylo Ren who tried to interrogate her.
5. She's a good pilot! Not as good as Anakin or Luke were, but hey, she's good!
6. She has a way with tinkering, fixing machines. Just like Anakin and Luke did.
7. She's a sucker for droids! Just like Anakin and Luke were!
8. Rey called Jakku home, a desert planet. Anakin & Luke both had their roots in Tatooine, also a desert planet.
Too many things attributed to Anakin & Luke Skywalker are found in Rey. If anything, I believe her to be a Skywalker but hidden when things started going to hell. I'm guessing Luke had her hidden for protection, the same way he and Leia were.
However, there very well may be other details in the movie I'm forgetting that could throw everything I said out the picture.
I'm just happy they have some villains I want to see more of. I want to see more of Capt Phasma and Kylo Ren. The latter's development after killing his own father will be interesting to see.
A huge mistake Lucas did in the Prequels, IMO, was killing off some rather cool villains before they could really make a bigger mark in the films: Darth Maul, Jango Fett.
Well... maybe Han's son would be a smuggler or a soldier, like his father before him?
I honestly have to agree with Marcus on this one - it's like they took Jacen and decided to have him kill his father instead of Mara Jade.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Light travels really slow if you think about it. It takes like 8 minutes for sunlight to reach earth. That beamed reached those planets and moons significantly faster I think. Even so, the beam itself may be invisible per se given how it travels at FTL speeds, but the "light" or plasma it emits is still restricted to the laws of physics and may therefore move out of FTL and travel at your speed of light limit... hence what they may have seen was the light emitted and not the actual beam itself.
*********
As for aiming a planetary weapon, it is easy to forget that the beam itself split into several homing ones in the movie. In addition, a planet has a 360 rotational arc (daily cycle) so you just have to wait for the right time of the day to fire. As for the sun, they never stated that it takes an entire star to charge the weapon once. They did say that the weapons will consume the star for each recharge cycle until there is no star left.
1) she was NOT a baby when she was left on Jakku. In the flashback she looked maybe 5? Either way, she was old enough to remember who her parents are/were.
2) When she met Finn, she thought Luke was a myth/not real.
If Luke were her father, she would have remembered him and known he was real. If Han were her father, she would have recognized him. The only way they can get around this is if they claim Luke used the Force to erase her memory.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
(Hides)
Thankfully TCW fixed that by bringing Maul back.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.