This film was also better than the slowly paced, poorly edited, Original Trilogy. It may even edge out RotS as the best SW film.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
"Balance" doesn't mean that the Light side is in charge though.... That would be a different sort of imbalanced.
We can playfully go around the "Bring Balance to the Force" thing of the previous movies
Anakin brought "Balance" when he helped crush the Jedi Order of the Old Republic. The "Light" had gotten too bright, too fat, too soft, too lethargic, and it needed culling.
Anakin brought "Balance" again when the Dark Side, through Palpatine, had gotten far too powerful and the last light of the Jedi Order, Luke, was being threatened with destruction.
The movie only very lightly touched upon the galactic situation. It leaves a lot of questions, some you mentioned.
How large and powerful is the First Order compared to the Galactic Empire? The movie never showed fleets of ships but implies numerical strength with visual images: Large formations of soldiers; The existence of a new planet killing weapon. Even after the Empire's loss of TWO Death Stars, the First Order says, "Oh yeah?" and builds something larger, more powerful.
Same with the Republic. Just how close in relation is the Republic and the Resistance? Why the need of these 2 separate entities and not just the Republic? The Republic lent no assistance to the latter despite the First Order's unveiling and use of a new super weapon. We know the goal of the Rebellion was to "Restore the Republic" but judging by the strength of the First Order (dear Lord, look at the size of that superweapon, and how much manpower and resources were thrown into that), the Republic didn't take over the galaxy the way it did in the old Expanded Universe. The First Order isn't some weaker "Imperial Remnant."
Anyways, I wanted more answers on events from the end of ROTJ to the beginning of TFA. What exactly happened with the Empire and Rebel Alliance. Exactly who is this Supreme Leader that is now in charge of the First Order that arose after Emperor Palpatine's death.
My assumptions? The Rebellion in Post-Endor gets a large footing somewhere in the Galaxy, large enough to proclaim the formation of the Republic. But the Empire didn't collapse and fragment like it did in the older Star Wars EU. It lost territory to the Republic, yes. Some internal power struggle of the Empire happened to give way to the "Surpreme Leader" in TFA and reorganized it into the First Order. But it must have the resources of the old Galactic Empire to pump out their new weapon. I do not see some backwater corner of the galaxy with small pockets of old Imperial power being able to construct what the First Order had. This lends towards the idea that the Supreme Leader retained central control of most of the old Galactic Empire.
The Dark Side in TFA also is not the traditional "Sith." It seems so far to follow "The Rule of Two" but they do not use the traditional "Darth" title. The existence of the "Knights of Ren" throws another wrinkle because it seems that some of them are not Force users.
Also, "bringing balance to the force" loses any real meaning when you have dark force users running the show again in the very next movie. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a chosen one when what he accomplished gets completely undone so easily. That is actually why Lucas had not planned on going past ROTJ, although that is a moot point now.
Balance simply means the Force is no longer dominated by the Sith. Balance means that the Force is not in conflict. Balance does not mean the same number of lightsiders and darksiders, neither does it mean zero darksiders. It simply means that the Force itself is not dominated by one side or the other.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Also, "bringing balance to the force" loses any real meaning when you have dark force users running the show again in the very next movie. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a chosen one when what he accomplished gets completely undone so easily. That is actually why Lucas had not planned on going past ROTJ, although that is a moot point now.
Balance simply means the Force is no longer dominated by the Sith. Balance means that the Force is not in conflict. Balance does not mean the same number of lightsiders and darksiders, neither does it mean zero darksiders. It simply means that the Force itself is not dominated by one side or the other.
That is a valid opinion, but that is NOT what George Lucas said. Again, Lucas compared the dark side to a cancer which had to be completely eliminated for there to be balance. That said, I think he has since made contradictory statements. So in the end, there is no correct answer. Each fan can think/believe what makes them happy.
Lucas's view on what constitutes balance has always been towards the extreme of only being the light side of the force. Personally I think that it is kind of a one sided philosophy, as the prequels demonstrated that the Jedi were pretty detached from everyday problems going on around them (upholding a corrupt peace rather than promoting justice).
There was an EU comic focusing on an older order of force users that predated the Jedi and Sith, where the members tried to strike a balance between both the light and dark side. Sadly the story was cut short with the Disney buyout.
I think the whole lightsabers being plasma blades actually comes from Mobile Suit Gundam. In that series "beam sabers" are plasma bottles given shape by containment fields.
In every Lucas interview I've seen where he talks about lightsabers he would always refer to them as laser swords. I think the original intention was that they were literally light bottled in a forcefield.
Functionally the swords being plasma or lasers doesn't really make a huge difference as the two have traditionally been used interchangeably in stories.
As for the movie...
So many new unanswered questions...
Why is there a difference between the Resistance and the Republic? They have obviously been around and active long enough for even a backwater world like Jakku to hear about them. Did Leia form them as some kind of vigilante group to do the things that the Republic refused to do? Or is this just a thinly veiled attempt to redo the Rebels vs Empire status quo of the original trilogy? Likewise why is the Galactic Empire now calling itself the First Order?
I almost think the whole thing is just a marketing ploy to make it easier to distinguish the new merchandise from the older trilogies merchandise. The new status quo is pretty much the same as the original trilogies status quo, just with new names.
The movie itself was pretty good overall, a big improvement over the prequels anyway. Finn and Rey were pretty good as new characters, the rest of the new cast didn't really stand out that much. I was very disappointed by how much of a push over Kylo Ren was. We are led to believe that this guy is why Luke isn't around, yet he got his butt whooped by somebody who had never held a lightsaber before. He just feels like a kid trying to pretend he is important.
It had some flaws with its story essentially just returning things to the Episode IV status quo. I was a little sad at how light the movie was on new concepts.
Also, "bringing balance to the force" loses any real meaning when you have dark force users running the show again in the very next movie. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a chosen one when what he accomplished gets completely undone so easily. That is actually why Lucas had not planned on going past ROTJ, although that is a moot point now.
Balance simply means the Force is no longer dominated by the Sith. Balance means that the Force is not in conflict. Balance does not mean the same number of lightsiders and darksiders, neither does it mean zero darksiders. It simply means that the Force itself is not dominated by one side or the other.
That is a valid opinion, but that is NOT what George Lucas said. Again, Lucas compared the dark side to a cancer which had to be completely eliminated for there to be balance. That said, I think he has since made contradictory statements. So in the end, there is no correct answer. Each fan can think/believe what makes them happy.
Fair point. That said, that doesn't really seem to fit in with what we saw on Mortis, and (in my opinion at least) onscreen canon should trump "Word of God."
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Also, "bringing balance to the force" loses any real meaning when you have dark force users running the show again in the very next movie. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a chosen one when what he accomplished gets completely undone so easily. That is actually why Lucas had not planned on going past ROTJ, although that is a moot point now.
Balance simply means the Force is no longer dominated by the Sith. Balance means that the Force is not in conflict. Balance does not mean the same number of lightsiders and darksiders, neither does it mean zero darksiders. It simply means that the Force itself is not dominated by one side or the other.
That is a valid opinion, but that is NOT what George Lucas said. Again, Lucas compared the dark side to a cancer which had to be completely eliminated for there to be balance. That said, I think he has since made contradictory statements. So in the end, there is no correct answer. Each fan can think/believe what makes them happy.
Fair point. That said, that doesn't really seem to fit in with what we saw on Mortis, and (in my opinion at least) onscreen canon should trump "Word of God."
And that is the problem. "We" didn't see that. Sources outside the movies are cool, but while it's fairly safe to assume all SW fans have seen the movies, after that point there is a huge level of variation between what other materials they have read/watched and whether they accept those are canon or not. Officially speaking, anything not a movie and before Disney is no longer canon now. I know a lot of people don't like that, but it is Disney's right to decide as the new owner.
Kylo Ren must've been a scrub Jedi...but MAN can that guy pitch a fit...Also Spoilerino...he gets owned when Rei finally decideds to turn the lightsaber on...
Whether people agree on canon or not, thats what is official
Yeah, The Clone Wars Cartoon is considered Official Canon by Disney/Lucas Film.
Both Kathleen Kennedy and Dave Filoni have said so in public.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Finally saw this today! Here are my random thoughts:
First off, my theater didn't show the Star Trek Beyond trailer before the movie... after all of that drama, I now feel cheated.
Generally speaking, I liked the movie. It's a notch below A New Hope, in the number four slot of my Star Wars film rankings. It's visually stunning, doesn't slow down too much, but also doesn't go crazy with the pew-pew-lightsaber stuff.
There are some things lacking in this story, though. The First Order's rise to power needed to be explored some more, and a MUCH better explanation of the Republic's current situation, and how the Resistance fits into that (they freaking WON the war against the Empire, and THEY are the "resistance"?! Huh????)
Han's death was spoiled for me. Freaking internet... I was trying to search to see if there was a post-credits scene, and saw "Han's death" before I found my answer. It takes balls to kill Solo off, so kudos for trying it (although, it's not that surprising, since Harrison Ford is old and likely doesn't want to play the character anymore.) Solo stroking his son's face, and Chewie's reaction to Han's death, were both heart-breaking.
The Starkiller-Planet-Weapon-Of-Death was STUPID. There was no real threat from it, added to the notion that the First Order ain't the Empire, and therefore doesn't/shouldn't have the resources to pull that kind of "building project" off. It really felt like this was inserted into the story to give the good guys a "final threat" to defeat. Even though it's bigger, it feels like a Walmart ripoff of the Death Star. JJ-Haters will claim he ripped off A New Hope, and I will admit that this is probably the biggest evidence that supports that view.
I'm seriously thinking about buying the $150 BB-8 droid toy thing, LOL. The "cuteness" wasn't overdone, and certainly didn't go in the Jar-Jar direction.
Ultimately, while this film clearly mimics a few parts from A New Hope, I wouldn't call it a ripoff. This movie did what it needed to do, IMO. They played it safe. It's not perfect, nor is it the best in the franchise... but, the new characters (Finn, Ren, and Rey) are dynamic, and they gave tons of screen time to Solo, before killing him off. I really hope the next film gives more backstory to the current situation, and I hope it moves into a different direction (let's not have an Empire Strikes Back clone, after all).
Ultimately, while this film clearly mimics a few parts from A New Hope,
Let's not exaggerate by calling it a "few":
imperials attack, want the data
droid escapes with the data
poor desert teenager is sad
poor desert teenager finds the droid with the data.
poor desert teenager meets up with Han Solo.
poor desert teenager learns some cool tricks.
cool old guy gets killed by guy he used to be cool with.
death star blows up stuff
rebel base sequence
trench run sequence
death star blows up
That's not to say I didn't like the movie though
So it's the ultimate case of 'What Goes Around, Comes Around'.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yeah.... apparently Rey's parentage is a big secret to be revealed later... let's speculate about that!
most people think she is lukes kid that might be true.she also could how ever just be one of the jedi students luke was training and mind wiped her and put her in hiding .when solos kid went nuts and started to kill all of lukes students.that would explain how she started to use the force so fast.she strikes me has someone thats remembering how to use skills and not learn them in 5 sec.
Yeah.... apparently Rey's parentage is a big secret to be revealed later... let's speculate about that!
most people think she is lukes kid that might be true.she also could how ever just be one of the jedi students luke was training and mind wiped her and put her in hiding .when solos kid went nuts and started to kill all of lukes students.that would explain how she started to use the force so fast.she strikes me has someone thats remembering how to use skills and not learn them in 5 sec.
Or she could just be one of those extremely gifted people that has a natural talent in the Force, and it took Kylo's mucking around with her head for her to realize a bit of what she could do.
She just happens to be a really fast learner. Imagine what she'll be able to do with even a bit of training from Luke.
It's similar to how they are developing Ezra's character in REBELS.
(but Rey is on a much higher level)
My interest is in how Kylo reacted after she somewhat kicked his TRIBBLE in the forest.
You could see it in his face while he was laying on the ground after it split between them.
At first he was incredulous, then it slowly dawned on him that he just help create the one person who could possibly defeat him and his master Snoke.
I'd like to see that conversation...
Kyol: "uummm Master..., I think I just turned the girl into a Jedi apprentice..."
Master Snoke "YOU WHAT!?!?!"
<chuckle>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Kylo Ren must've been a scrub Jedi...but MAN can that guy pitch a fit...Also Spoilerino...he gets owned when Rei finally decideds to turn the lightsaber on...
Kylo Ren confirmed for Garbage Teir
To be fair, Kylo Ren wasn't fully trained either. It seemed the Supreme Leader awaited Kylo Ren to cross that line (completely severing himself from his family; Dealt with Han) as a prerequisite to complete his training.
The funny part about the Supreme Leader? With the disastrous loss of his new toy, he showed no sign of disappointment, anger at anyone. When their General reported of the disaster, I expected a vicious retort from their leader to make his subordinate pay for his failure. But he didn't do any of that. He basically went, "Okay, come back home, be sure to bring back my TRIBBLE TRIBBLE apprentice so I can finally teach him how to tie his shoelaces."
The funny part about the Supreme Leader? With the disastrous loss of his new toy, he showed no sign of disappointment, anger at anyone. When their General reported of the disaster, I expected a vicious retort from their leader to make his subordinate pay for his failure. But he didn't do any of that. He basically went, "Okay, come back home, be sure to bring back my TRIBBLE TRIBBLE apprentice so I can finally teach him how to tie his shoelaces."
Yeah... One thing I liked about Kylo Ren was that unlike Vader, he took his anger out on inanimate objects instead of his officers. :P
The funny part about the Supreme Leader? With the disastrous loss of his new toy, he showed no sign of disappointment, anger at anyone. When their General reported of the disaster, I expected a vicious retort from their leader to make his subordinate pay for his failure. But he didn't do any of that. He basically went, "Okay, come back home, be sure to bring back my TRIBBLE TRIBBLE apprentice so I can finally teach him how to tie his shoelaces."
Yeah... One thing I liked about Kylo Ren was that unlike Vader, he took his anger out on inanimate objects instead of his officers. :P
I dunno.. I kinda think Vader was more sadistic than angry. It was almost like he hated the soldiers under his command and was waiting for excuses to execute them.
Despite Kylo killing Han I think the way Ha died will lead to even more internal conflict. He died touching his face not angry or trying to drag Kylo of the bridge like he was Gandalf or something. He died forgiving him and that has to be important later.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The funny part about the Supreme Leader? With the disastrous loss of his new toy, he showed no sign of disappointment, anger at anyone. When their General reported of the disaster, I expected a vicious retort from their leader to make his subordinate pay for his failure. But he didn't do any of that. He basically went, "Okay, come back home, be sure to bring back my TRIBBLE TRIBBLE apprentice so I can finally teach him how to tie his shoelaces."
Yeah... One thing I liked about Kylo Ren was that unlike Vader, he took his anger out on inanimate objects instead of his officers. :P
I dunno.. I kinda think Vader was more sadistic than angry. It was almost like he hated the soldiers under his command and was waiting for excuses to execute them.
Judging from the EU, that's basically it. Notice that he doesn't execute the Imperial officer (Nahdonnis Praji, if memory serves) on the Tantive IV in ANH, and never executes stormtroopers, but happily does a number on the Empire's flag officers throughout the trilogy.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
The funny part about the Supreme Leader? With the disastrous loss of his new toy, he showed no sign of disappointment, anger at anyone. When their General reported of the disaster, I expected a vicious retort from their leader to make his subordinate pay for his failure. But he didn't do any of that. He basically went, "Okay, come back home, be sure to bring back my TRIBBLE TRIBBLE apprentice so I can finally teach him how to tie his shoelaces."
Yeah... One thing I liked about Kylo Ren was that unlike Vader, he took his anger out on inanimate objects instead of his officers. :P
I dunno.. I kinda think Vader was more sadistic than angry. It was almost like he hated the soldiers under his command and was waiting for excuses to execute them.
He never did that with junior officers and rank and file troops. It was always with the senior commanders: Capt Needa, Adm Ozzel. Gen Tagge on the 1st Death Star almost ate it but Tarkin told Vader to stop Or the guy that was reporting to him when he arrived on the 2nd Death Star.
I think a mixture of enjoyment and disappointment. It seems too many thing are reused. But they capture the spirits of the original trilog much better, the comedy is done much better. They managed to create new characters.
Surprising point for me - Chewbacca actually failed more like a person then in the original movies.
The new Death Star was... meh. Too much of a repeat of the original movie, and the EU already did the mistake of bringing out new super weapons after new super weapons.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I kinda like the premise of the new one though. The new one was built by taking a planet and building a bunch of stuff on it, rather than spending the gigantic sums required to completely build from scratch an object large enough to be one.
Why'd Poe take off his jacket before he crashed? That's the important question here.
Actually, in the book, he looses it while getting his TRIBBLE out of the crashed TIE fighter.
(which he managed to fly to a controlled crash landing after Finn ejected)
It gets caught on something and he leaves it behind.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Although not a bad movie it did borrow far to much plot and story from ANH and ROTJ. If you removed the original cast from this film and replaced them with new characters in their respective roles than you'd be forgiven thinking that you're watching a remake rather than a sequel.
I'd liken it to Star Trek Into Darkness but done right.
Why'd Poe take off his jacket before he crashed? That's the important question here.
Actually, in the book, he looses it while getting his TRIBBLE out of the crashed TIE fighter.
(which he managed to fly to a controlled crash landing after Finn ejected)
It gets caught on something and he leaves it behind.
Which is a completely valid explanation. But in the actual movie Finn didn't open the TIE fighter. So how did he get it? I don't recall seeing him pick it up, but I probably just wasn't paying attention.
Why'd Poe take off his jacket before he crashed? That's the important question here.
Actually, in the book, he looses it while getting his TRIBBLE out of the crashed TIE fighter.
(which he managed to fly to a controlled crash landing after Finn ejected)
It gets caught on something and he leaves it behind.
Which is a completely valid explanation. But in the actual movie Finn didn't open the TIE fighter. So how did he get it? I don't recall seeing him pick it up, but I probably just wasn't paying attention.
In the book, Poe tells Finn that he was partially ejected out the front of the TIE when it hit the ground and in the movie the TIE's front window is smashed out.
That's where Finn finds the jacket, caught in the frame work when he tries to see if Poe is still in the flaming cockpit.
I was a bit disappointed that the movie didn't give us more dialogue on how Poe survived the crash when they next see each other on D'Quar.
Post edited by daveyny on
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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We can playfully go around the "Bring Balance to the Force" thing of the previous movies
Anakin brought "Balance" when he helped crush the Jedi Order of the Old Republic. The "Light" had gotten too bright, too fat, too soft, too lethargic, and it needed culling.
Anakin brought "Balance" again when the Dark Side, through Palpatine, had gotten far too powerful and the last light of the Jedi Order, Luke, was being threatened with destruction.
@crypticarmsman
The movie only very lightly touched upon the galactic situation. It leaves a lot of questions, some you mentioned.
How large and powerful is the First Order compared to the Galactic Empire? The movie never showed fleets of ships but implies numerical strength with visual images: Large formations of soldiers; The existence of a new planet killing weapon. Even after the Empire's loss of TWO Death Stars, the First Order says, "Oh yeah?" and builds something larger, more powerful.
Same with the Republic. Just how close in relation is the Republic and the Resistance? Why the need of these 2 separate entities and not just the Republic? The Republic lent no assistance to the latter despite the First Order's unveiling and use of a new super weapon. We know the goal of the Rebellion was to "Restore the Republic" but judging by the strength of the First Order (dear Lord, look at the size of that superweapon, and how much manpower and resources were thrown into that), the Republic didn't take over the galaxy the way it did in the old Expanded Universe. The First Order isn't some weaker "Imperial Remnant."
Anyways, I wanted more answers on events from the end of ROTJ to the beginning of TFA. What exactly happened with the Empire and Rebel Alliance. Exactly who is this Supreme Leader that is now in charge of the First Order that arose after Emperor Palpatine's death.
My assumptions? The Rebellion in Post-Endor gets a large footing somewhere in the Galaxy, large enough to proclaim the formation of the Republic. But the Empire didn't collapse and fragment like it did in the older Star Wars EU. It lost territory to the Republic, yes. Some internal power struggle of the Empire happened to give way to the "Surpreme Leader" in TFA and reorganized it into the First Order. But it must have the resources of the old Galactic Empire to pump out their new weapon. I do not see some backwater corner of the galaxy with small pockets of old Imperial power being able to construct what the First Order had. This lends towards the idea that the Supreme Leader retained central control of most of the old Galactic Empire.
The Dark Side in TFA also is not the traditional "Sith." It seems so far to follow "The Rule of Two" but they do not use the traditional "Darth" title. The existence of the "Knights of Ren" throws another wrinkle because it seems that some of them are not Force users.
Balance simply means the Force is no longer dominated by the Sith. Balance means that the Force is not in conflict. Balance does not mean the same number of lightsiders and darksiders, neither does it mean zero darksiders. It simply means that the Force itself is not dominated by one side or the other.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
That is a valid opinion, but that is NOT what George Lucas said. Again, Lucas compared the dark side to a cancer which had to be completely eliminated for there to be balance. That said, I think he has since made contradictory statements. So in the end, there is no correct answer. Each fan can think/believe what makes them happy.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
There was an EU comic focusing on an older order of force users that predated the Jedi and Sith, where the members tried to strike a balance between both the light and dark side. Sadly the story was cut short with the Disney buyout.
I think the whole lightsabers being plasma blades actually comes from Mobile Suit Gundam. In that series "beam sabers" are plasma bottles given shape by containment fields.
In every Lucas interview I've seen where he talks about lightsabers he would always refer to them as laser swords. I think the original intention was that they were literally light bottled in a forcefield.
Functionally the swords being plasma or lasers doesn't really make a huge difference as the two have traditionally been used interchangeably in stories.
As for the movie...
So many new unanswered questions...
Why is there a difference between the Resistance and the Republic? They have obviously been around and active long enough for even a backwater world like Jakku to hear about them. Did Leia form them as some kind of vigilante group to do the things that the Republic refused to do? Or is this just a thinly veiled attempt to redo the Rebels vs Empire status quo of the original trilogy? Likewise why is the Galactic Empire now calling itself the First Order?
I almost think the whole thing is just a marketing ploy to make it easier to distinguish the new merchandise from the older trilogies merchandise. The new status quo is pretty much the same as the original trilogies status quo, just with new names.
The movie itself was pretty good overall, a big improvement over the prequels anyway. Finn and Rey were pretty good as new characters, the rest of the new cast didn't really stand out that much. I was very disappointed by how much of a push over Kylo Ren was. We are led to believe that this guy is why Luke isn't around, yet he got his butt whooped by somebody who had never held a lightsaber before. He just feels like a kid trying to pretend he is important.
It had some flaws with its story essentially just returning things to the Episode IV status quo. I was a little sad at how light the movie was on new concepts.
Fair point. That said, that doesn't really seem to fit in with what we saw on Mortis, and (in my opinion at least) onscreen canon should trump "Word of God."
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
And that is the problem. "We" didn't see that. Sources outside the movies are cool, but while it's fairly safe to assume all SW fans have seen the movies, after that point there is a huge level of variation between what other materials they have read/watched and whether they accept those are canon or not. Officially speaking, anything not a movie and before Disney is no longer canon now. I know a lot of people don't like that, but it is Disney's right to decide as the new owner.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Whether people agree on canon or not, thats what is official
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Kylo Ren confirmed for Garbage Teir
Mwahahahahahahaha
If it was made before Disney and wasn't a movie, not canon. If it was made after Disney, all canon. It's that simple.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon#Disney_acquisition.2C_canon_revision_and_Star_Wars_Legends
http://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yeah, The Clone Wars Cartoon is considered Official Canon by Disney/Lucas Film.
Both Kathleen Kennedy and Dave Filoni have said so in public.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Ultimately, while this film clearly mimics a few parts from A New Hope, I wouldn't call it a ripoff. This movie did what it needed to do, IMO. They played it safe. It's not perfect, nor is it the best in the franchise... but, the new characters (Finn, Ren, and Rey) are dynamic, and they gave tons of screen time to Solo, before killing him off. I really hope the next film gives more backstory to the current situation, and I hope it moves into a different direction (let's not have an Empire Strikes Back clone, after all).
Let's not exaggerate by calling it a "few":
That's not to say I didn't like the movie though
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
So it's the ultimate case of 'What Goes Around, Comes Around'.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Or she could just be one of those extremely gifted people that has a natural talent in the Force, and it took Kylo's mucking around with her head for her to realize a bit of what she could do.
She just happens to be a really fast learner. Imagine what she'll be able to do with even a bit of training from Luke.
It's similar to how they are developing Ezra's character in REBELS.
(but Rey is on a much higher level)
My interest is in how Kylo reacted after she somewhat kicked his TRIBBLE in the forest.
You could see it in his face while he was laying on the ground after it split between them.
At first he was incredulous, then it slowly dawned on him that he just help create the one person who could possibly defeat him and his master Snoke.
I'd like to see that conversation...
Kyol: "uummm Master..., I think I just turned the girl into a Jedi apprentice..."
Master Snoke "YOU WHAT!?!?!"
<chuckle>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
To be fair, Kylo Ren wasn't fully trained either. It seemed the Supreme Leader awaited Kylo Ren to cross that line (completely severing himself from his family; Dealt with Han) as a prerequisite to complete his training.
The funny part about the Supreme Leader? With the disastrous loss of his new toy, he showed no sign of disappointment, anger at anyone. When their General reported of the disaster, I expected a vicious retort from their leader to make his subordinate pay for his failure. But he didn't do any of that. He basically went, "Okay, come back home, be sure to bring back my TRIBBLE TRIBBLE apprentice so I can finally teach him how to tie his shoelaces."
Yeah... One thing I liked about Kylo Ren was that unlike Vader, he took his anger out on inanimate objects instead of his officers. :P
My character Tsin'xing
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
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'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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Judging from the EU, that's basically it. Notice that he doesn't execute the Imperial officer (Nahdonnis Praji, if memory serves) on the Tantive IV in ANH, and never executes stormtroopers, but happily does a number on the Empire's flag officers throughout the trilogy.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
He never did that with junior officers and rank and file troops. It was always with the senior commanders: Capt Needa, Adm Ozzel. Gen Tagge on the 1st Death Star almost ate it but Tarkin told Vader to stop
Surprising point for me - Chewbacca actually failed more like a person then in the original movies.
The new Death Star was... meh. Too much of a repeat of the original movie, and the EU already did the mistake of bringing out new super weapons after new super weapons.
My character Tsin'xing
Actually, in the book, he looses it while getting his TRIBBLE out of the crashed TIE fighter.
(which he managed to fly to a controlled crash landing after Finn ejected)
It gets caught on something and he leaves it behind.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I'd liken it to Star Trek Into Darkness but done right.
Which is a completely valid explanation. But in the actual movie Finn didn't open the TIE fighter. So how did he get it? I don't recall seeing him pick it up, but I probably just wasn't paying attention.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
In the book, Poe tells Finn that he was partially ejected out the front of the TIE when it hit the ground and in the movie the TIE's front window is smashed out.
That's where Finn finds the jacket, caught in the frame work when he tries to see if Poe is still in the flaming cockpit.
I was a bit disappointed that the movie didn't give us more dialogue on how Poe survived the crash when they next see each other on D'Quar.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion