[...] with the amount of dilithium available now it is an inexorable climb up to 500. It is, at least a slow climb. [...] it's clear that no sink can stop the climb. If the sink is too big (like research lab upgrade) people will simply not do it. [...]
No, the only way to stop the climb would be to make a new cap at 300 (a good idea that Cryptic) or greatly reduce the amount of dilithium coming in. That would cause such an outcry I don't see it happening.
I agree with greatly reducing the amount of dilithium coming in.
About Dilithium sinks, I will speculate that they are a one-time thing that once acquired, possibly only once or a few times per account if at all, does nothing in the long run, unlike a permanent decrease in dilithium rewards. That's the point of the standard 8K Dil refining cap per toon as it is besides keeping the dil ex somewhat steady.
With so much unrefined accumulating all it does is force players to make more lowly farmers who spend more time micro managing and repetition of the same easy & quick content for the daily bonuses.
Back at 150 D/z less than 2 years ago as a new member it used to be more fun flying across the map to search and explore various locations such as Nimbus, Dil Mines, Fleet Mines, Battlezones, SFA, New Romulus, Traelus System, Sh'mar Distress Call, try new foundry missions with the fleet using Investigate Officer Reports (Regulus, Drozona).
Now, Dil floods in from mind-numbing interface button clicking, repetition across alts of the same quick staged straight-forward content, staring at empty queues or watching everything pop in DPS teams, empty fleets across multiple armadas, and who cares about team dynamics with FAW-Tac beam boats that are either immune or get vaporized. No more real strategy, no real exploration, no PvP, no challenge outside of inflated hull HP and artificial timer conditions, no need for different ship classes outside a solo mini-game (admiralty), no real role play opportunities, and no real end-game content. It is, at least to me, a truly sad state of affairs for an MMORPG that has so much opportunity built into it from the start.
STO's economy isn't capitalistic. In fact, a number of folks have accumulated a large amount of space wealth simply by taking advantage of the blunders of the large number of players whose decisions are based on the misguided belief STO's economy is actually based on capitalism (while they collectively downplay or outright ignore all of the signs it isn't).
You're right, the only thing missing to make it a capitalist economy, is the taxes!!!
Also, people need remember, that the middle ground rate for dilithium:Zen, is 250:1.
So, the market is more or less been hanging around this region, for quite some time!
You're right, the only thing missing to make it a capitalist economy, is the taxes!!!
Also, people need remember, that the middle ground rate for dilithium:Zen, is 250:1.
So, the market is more or less been hanging around this region, for quite some time!
This is an interesting point. I have long considered the 'fair value' to be 130-140, simply because it was at that level for a very long time in a nice and active period of the game.
However, since it's clear we will never see anything like that again, I'm willing to accept that 250 could be a new fair value. Considering the availability of dil now compared to back then it may be let's say remotely reasonable. However, there is absolutely nothing holding the price at 250. It will continue to climb beyond there.
I would say that players have become much more greedy since DR and I'm not sure why. Maybe they feel put upon by being asked to spend any dil which has turned us all into misers? I've always been a miser so I see no difference.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Consider that the fleet lab extra slots (and indeed upgrading the labs themselves) moved it down a grand total of 10 points and only briefly, it's clear that no sink can stop the climb. If the sink is too big (like research lab upgrade) people will simply not do it. So we see only very large fleets completing and everyone else getting invites.
The research lab was not too big, it was too small. Large fleets finished it already and small fleets have always had holdings to build, so they didn't have any more dil to spend on this one than they did the previous ones.
Back in the days of <100 Zen prices, even large fleets had 2-3 holdings to run concurrently, and one of them was the starbase. The research lab was simply not big enough. Not long-term enough. And not stacked with enough others.
The grand lines of the dil exchange live off the fleet holdings. The rate was 300-400 before season 6, when there were no holdings at all, and the lowest point corresponds to the time when there were several holdings to develop at once. Now, the holdings are all done and the dilex is on a steady upwards trend.
We need a new starbase-sized holding, and overall more frequent releases of new holdings (or upgrades to existing ones). We could also use other dil sinks. For example, I wonder why R&D is the only system that lets you pay to skip the timer.
No, the only way to stop the climb would be to make a new cap at 300 (a good idea that Cryptic) or greatly reduce the amount of dilithium coming in. That would cause such an outcry I don't see it happening. Maybe a little here and there but nothing like what is necessary. We will permanently cross 250 soon as we have 200 and 220.
Horrible, horrible idea. If the dilithium exchange hits a cap, trading will grind to a halt. If you can't trade at fair market value, you can't trade. In fact, if we ever do approach 500, the cap should immediately be raised. Personally, I think there should be no caps in the first place.
You're right, the only thing missing to make it a capitalist economy, is the taxes!!!
Also, people need remember, that the middle ground rate for dilithium:Zen, is 250:1.
So, the market is more or less been hanging around this region, for quite some time!
This is an interesting point. I have long considered the 'fair value' to be 130-140, simply because it was at that level for a very long time in a nice and active period of the game.
However, since it's clear we will never see anything like that again, I'm willing to accept that 250 could be a new fair value. Considering the availability of dil now compared to back then it may be let's say remotely reasonable. However, there is absolutely nothing holding the price at 250. It will continue to climb beyond there.
I would say that players have become much more greedy since DR and I'm not sure why. Maybe they feel put upon by being asked to spend any dil which has turned us all into misers? I've always been a miser so I see no difference.
Rewording what I originally wrote, doesn't serve you as being correct by any means!
If you want the price of Dilithium to skyrocket, make it actually worth spending on fleet projects.
This is why I have asked on numerous occassions, for dilithium to be valued @ more than FM, than people would contribute dilithium far more often to fleet projects!
This thread makes me think of the good 'ol days when the dil exchange rate was in the mid 80's. Wow!
That was a long long time ago. Probably season 5? One thing is for sure and that is it's pre-LoR
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I think drops need to improve. Newer players trying to gear their ships and play simply cannot generate the necessary EC to do much of a damned thing, and drops have been nerfed into the ground. No more batteries and white gear, white gear should be what comes stock on a ship when you get it new and that's it. All drops should be green and blue, with the occasional purple (when was the last time any of you saw a purple item actually drop? I can't remember) so that new players can actually equip their characters and ships and play. They won't need the exchange so much until they're established.
Well, the thing is VR mk ii gear is usually dirt cheap, and 1 single superior tech can usually take you to mk vii - mkviii easily, after that some further investment is needed.
Drops can get you by, but really exchange gear isn't to bad in pricing, at least to an extent!
Dilithium sinks are one thing, Doff sinks quite another. No more of that TRIBBLE if new bigger Fleet Holdings are introduced as people want here. Way too much of a hassle.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,672Community Moderator
I think its a combination of factors that are making it go up. Right now a desirable ship is a chance drop in R&D packs, which are C-Store, making Zen more desirable. There is also the recent Mark Bonus Weekend we had, which could allow people with T5 reps to convert large stacks of Marks into Dilithium, and of course the big one, the recent Mirror Invasion event which supplied EACH CHARACTER who completed it with 50,000 Dilithium. EACH.
When things settle down, the Exchange seems to settle at a reasonable 200 or so these days. Whenever a sale or new/desirable ship comes, or influx of Dilithium happen, the price goes up.
As a F2P player who gets most of my shiny C-Store Shiny via the Exchange, I've learned to identify these patterns. I had actually forgotten about the Sheshar in the R&D packs and was wondering why it was going up so high. Seemed a bit odd unless altoholics were suddenly dumping their event awarded DL now. But now it makes sense. People want a shot at the Sheshar, and its not a guaranteed shot.
Basic economics in lieu of sinks basically say that if no one buys at the higher price, lower the price to a point where they will start buying again. Since it is player driven, while influenced by events as listed above, it will go up and down. NO ONE will buy at 500/1. That is a fact. The average player will be more comfortable around 200/1 and more trading occures. Speculation on sales and ships make it go up. Time brings it back down.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Go figure the free 2 players would stand behind a dil rate of 200 or below for 1 zen. You all have also mentioned about to much dil running around and it is hurting your ability to get cheap zen. Not my problem.
Because of these very same reasons the dil exchange needs to be in the low 400s. All you f2pers with your 10 to 20 toons are devaluing dil in my favor. Just because you all are so successful at "beating the system" does not mean I have to pay a premium for it.
Go figure the free 2 players would stand behind a dil rate of 200 or below for 1 zen. You all have also mentioned about to much dil running around and it is hurting your ability to get cheap zen. Not my problem.
Because of these very same reasons the dil exchange needs to be in the low 400s. All you f2pers with your 10 to 20 toons are devaluing dil in my favor. Just because you all are so successful at "beating the system" does not mean I have to pay a premium for it.
The exchange does NOT NEED to be at any set point, and no group is responsible for anything. Most F2Pers probably only have 3 characters at most anyways unless they are like me and have figured out the Exchange. There is also the amount of time required to cap out all those alts every day. Too much effort for the casual player.
Its just the nature of the Exchange to fluctuate and settle at a certain point over time that is reasonable for both parties involved. It just happens to be the low 200s.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Ultimately the insane exchange prices especially for low mark items is a detriment to the long term future for the game, I have seen posts on general gaming forums from new players who see mk vi stuff for sale for completely insurmountable amounts so they don't bother and move on to other newer games where there isn't such a market for scalpers to exploit the market. Ever dwindling new player base simply means the long term players will get milked more.
Everyone loses, except for the scalpers who have to set up new accounts to hoard yet more money for no purpose.
Gotta disagree with this completely for 2 reasons and I'll explain why.
If you're looking for certain mod combos such as [crtd]x2 [pen] or [dmg]x2 [pen] being 2 common examples, you're going to pay up for those types of weapons. I will agree some stuff is a bit on the high side but there is a reason for it. if for example I start crafting beams to sell I'm gambling on what mods I will get. If I craft 200 beams and I'm going for one of those combos, i may get 5 of what I'm after, but I may not get any of them. certain mod combos are harder to come by than others and that drives the prices of those items up.
The key thing with this is due to the fact you can upgrade those items from mk ii. If for example we have a Phaser Beam Array Mk II [crtd]x2 [pen] we want to upgrade, we pair that with an Experimental Beam upgrade and Major research boost, we have a great chance of upgrading rarity to ultra. Now that chance to upgrade will be 20% each time you hit the button. off of that one tech upgrade and research boost you can get all the way to mk vii or mk viii. It's possible that by mk iv that beam could turn into Phaser Beam Array Mk IV [Ac/Dm] [Crtd]x3 [Pen]. The fact that you have the potential for epic quality at mk iv is a huge deal.
The second thing is you don't need to worry about gear while leveling in the first place. You can buy the cheapo white quality stuff from the vendors to throw on a ship and use what you pick up from leveling in order to get by with until you hit level 50. The game doesn't really begin so to speak until you hit level 50 anyways, with even more stuff being unlocked at 60. You can pick up the purple quality mk ii stuff and use that to level with if you want to but you'll out level your gear within 10 levels and then you'll just need to rebuy everything again. It's not worth it to do as you're suggesting with low mark stuff. Don't even worry about gear until you hit 50 because it will save you a huge headache.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
NO ONE will buy at 500/1. That is a fact. The average player will be more comfortable around 200/1 and more trading occures. Speculation on sales and ships make it go up. Time brings it back down.
People will buy at 500:1, if that's the fair market value. The most trading always occurs at fair market value. That is where the buyers' and sellers' interests meet. If the price is capped off, trading will stop. If it's capped low, people won't want to sell at a loss. And if its capped high, people won't want to buy at a loss.
Just because some people don't agree with the majority of the traders about what is the right price, doesn't mean it's not the right price. In my time I've seen it vary from below 100 to almost 400. It all depends on what you can do with Zen vs what you can do with dilithium.
I think drops need to improve. Newer players trying to gear their ships and play simply cannot generate the necessary EC to do much of a damned thing, and drops have been nerfed into the ground. No more batteries and white gear, white gear should be what comes stock on a ship when you get it new and that's it. All drops should be green and blue, with the occasional purple (when was the last time any of you saw a purple item actually drop? I can't remember) so that new players can actually equip their characters and ships and play. They won't need the exchange so much until they're established.
The last thing this game needs is even more EC generation. EC inflation is out of control and generation needs to be drasticallly reduced and/or new sinks added.
New players don't need the exchange at all. I've never bought any gear for any of my toons while leveling up. Game's easy, just equip whatever.
And in case you still haven't caught on, the expensive low-mark items on the ex aren't meant for new players, but max-level players who upgrade them. Because starting with a low-mark item gives better chance of getting epics.
Carefully controlled by Cryptic with lockboxes, cstore and sales etc.
I agree.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
STO's economy isn't capitalistic. In fact, a number of folks have accumulated a large amount of space wealth simply by taking advantage of the blunders of the large number of players whose decisions are based on the misguided belief STO's economy is actually based on capitalism (while they collectively downplay or outright ignore all of the signs it isn't).
You're right, the only thing missing to make it a capitalist economy, is the taxes!!!
Also, people need remember, that the middle ground rate for dilithium:Zen, is 250:1.
So, the market is more or less been hanging around this region, for quite some time!
This is an interesting point. I have long considered the 'fair value' to be 130-140, simply because it was at that level for a very long time in a nice and active period of the game.
However, since it's clear we will never see anything like that again, I'm willing to accept that 250 could be a new fair value. Considering the availability of dil now compared to back then it may be let's say remotely reasonable. However, there is absolutely nothing holding the price at 250. It will continue to climb beyond there.
I would say that players have become much more greedy since DR and I'm not sure why. Maybe they feel put upon by being asked to spend any dil which has turned us all into misers? I've always been a miser so I see no difference.
Rewording what I originally wrote, doesn't serve you as being correct by any means!
Yeah... something about the forums seems to make quoting and responding work funny, doesn't it? Somehow it lost tacticalrook's comment back there (I put it back so it looked right because it was bugging me ), so it ended up with the wrong number of /quote tags. I'm not sure why, but I've seen that a lot since the change to Vanilla.
As to the OP... I'm not sure Cryptic actually cares what the Dilithium Exchange is set at, so long as the Zen throughput is sufficient to make it profitable. It's the Zen that equates to money (past or present), and it's the Zen sellers rather than the dilithium grinders that fund the game. The rates will land wherever the tipping point lies between "TRIBBLE it, I'll just grind dilithium!" and "TRIBBLE it, I'll just buy dilithium!"
In many ways, though, it's the grinders that pick the price; the same folks that plan and plan and gather dilithium over time to purchase that next big shiny... often tend to flood the market when something shiny appears. Pay attention to the News and you'll get a general idea of when these things will change. New ship releases are a good example, the announcement of a "Promotion!" Pack is another, and sales on a given item/service are another still; when these overlap it tends to be even more noticable.
In the end, if we as players just want to grind dilithium instead of spending actual money... we're pretty much stuck with wherever the rates land.
If that means enough players get frustrated and stop selling dilithium, the rates will come back down.
If that means enough players get frustrated and wander off for greener pastures, the rates will come back down.
If that means enough players get frustrated and buy dilithium, the rates will come back down.
...but...
If that means a few players get frustrated and keep grinding dilithium anyway, the rates will do what they've been doing.
As to players being more greedy since DR... well... DR made some big changes that impacted STO in many ways. Some old folks left, some new folks joined in, and so we have a different set of actual players operating in a different environment. That is a major discussion in and of itself, but not one that is likely to last very long... the forums have too much crazy and too much of the resulting "that thing which shall not be named, for in naming it do we bring it upon our posts" for a proper dialog. That and the forum migration also broke all of our old links and the devtracker function, making it a pain in the aft to find relevant information these days; it's tough to discuss mechanics that aren't actually what they appear or claim to be (damage, for example, isn't that simple).
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Go figure the free 2 players would stand behind a dil rate of 200 or below for 1 zen. You all have also mentioned about to much dil running around and it is hurting your ability to get cheap zen. Not my problem.
Because of these very same reasons the dil exchange needs to be in the low 400s. All you f2pers with your 10 to 20 toons are devaluing dil in my favor. Just because you all are so successful at "beating the system" does not mean I have to pay a premium for it.
Genuine question - what do you need that dil for? Small or solo fleet?
and for rattler - 200 was long long ago. We will not see it again. We wont see 230 again either.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,672Community Moderator
People will buy at 500:1, if that's the fair market value. The most trading always occurs at fair market value. That is where the buyers' and sellers' interests meet. If the price is capped off, trading will stop. If it's capped low, people won't want to sell at a loss. And if its capped high, people won't want to buy at a loss.
Just because some people don't agree with the majority of the traders about what is the right price, doesn't mean it's not the right price. In my time I've seen it vary from below 100 to almost 400. It all depends on what you can do with Zen vs what you can do with dilithium.
I doubt people would buy at 500/1 because the time put in for the effort exceeds the reward. I've been around long enough to know. I was around when they first brought in the exchange. In my experience when there is no DL sink or event causing the exchange rates to go up or down... it seems to settle in the low 200s. Based on this behavior, I'm relatively confident in sayin that the low 200 range is the optimal baseline trading point. Yes people would buy at higher rates, but that's only because of events. Without events, it settles.
Seems like a reasonable point for both parties too. More Dilithium from people who have the time to grind it out, and more Zen for the time put into grinding that Dilithium. I guess you could call it a balance point.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
People will buy at 500:1, if that's the fair market value. The most trading always occurs at fair market value. That is where the buyers' and sellers' interests meet. If the price is capped off, trading will stop. If it's capped low, people won't want to sell at a loss. And if its capped high, people won't want to buy at a loss.
Just because some people don't agree with the majority of the traders about what is the right price, doesn't mean it's not the right price. In my time I've seen it vary from below 100 to almost 400. It all depends on what you can do with Zen vs what you can do with dilithium.
I doubt people would buy at 500/1 because the time put in for the effort exceeds the reward. I've been around long enough to know. I was around when they first brought in the exchange. In my experience when there is no DL sink or event causing the exchange rates to go up or down... it seems to settle in the low 200s. Based on this behavior, I'm relatively confident in sayin that the low 200 range is the optimal baseline trading point. Yes people would buy at higher rates, but that's only because of events. Without events, it settles.
But that's the point of a free market. The effort never exceeds the reward. A high price indicates that it's worth that much to people.
"The low 200s" is where it has been for a few months recently. Don't mistake that for any kind of universal default.
Genuine question - what do you need that dil for? Small or solo fleet?
My fleet is maxed, I am in an armada with 10 other fleets who are not maxed that need a lot of dil. Plus, I want to upgrade my gear on a massive scale.
Economics. Simple as that. Also the fewer people who sell the higher the price will go. My guess would be the player base is shrinking and so is the people who need dil. As fleets start maxing out or disappearing you are going to find prices going up up and up.
Comments
Sheshar promo event.
Really, is it so hard for people to just read the recent announcements before asking this question? The answer is always there.
I agree with greatly reducing the amount of dilithium coming in.
About Dilithium sinks, I will speculate that they are a one-time thing that once acquired, possibly only once or a few times per account if at all, does nothing in the long run, unlike a permanent decrease in dilithium rewards. That's the point of the standard 8K Dil refining cap per toon as it is besides keeping the dil ex somewhat steady.
With so much unrefined accumulating all it does is force players to make more lowly farmers who spend more time micro managing and repetition of the same easy & quick content for the daily bonuses.
Back at 150 D/z less than 2 years ago as a new member it used to be more fun flying across the map to search and explore various locations such as Nimbus, Dil Mines, Fleet Mines, Battlezones, SFA, New Romulus, Traelus System, Sh'mar Distress Call, try new foundry missions with the fleet using Investigate Officer Reports (Regulus, Drozona).
Now, Dil floods in from mind-numbing interface button clicking, repetition across alts of the same quick staged straight-forward content, staring at empty queues or watching everything pop in DPS teams, empty fleets across multiple armadas, and who cares about team dynamics with FAW-Tac beam boats that are either immune or get vaporized. No more real strategy, no real exploration, no PvP, no challenge outside of inflated hull HP and artificial timer conditions, no need for different ship classes outside a solo mini-game (admiralty), no real role play opportunities, and no real end-game content. It is, at least to me, a truly sad state of affairs for an MMORPG that has so much opportunity built into it from the start.
You're right, the only thing missing to make it a capitalist economy, is the taxes!!!
Also, people need remember, that the middle ground rate for dilithium:Zen, is 250:1.
So, the market is more or less been hanging around this region, for quite some time!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Back in the days of <100 Zen prices, even large fleets had 2-3 holdings to run concurrently, and one of them was the starbase. The research lab was simply not big enough. Not long-term enough. And not stacked with enough others.
The grand lines of the dil exchange live off the fleet holdings. The rate was 300-400 before season 6, when there were no holdings at all, and the lowest point corresponds to the time when there were several holdings to develop at once. Now, the holdings are all done and the dilex is on a steady upwards trend.
We need a new starbase-sized holding, and overall more frequent releases of new holdings (or upgrades to existing ones). We could also use other dil sinks. For example, I wonder why R&D is the only system that lets you pay to skip the timer.
Horrible, horrible idea. If the dilithium exchange hits a cap, trading will grind to a halt. If you can't trade at fair market value, you can't trade. In fact, if we ever do approach 500, the cap should immediately be raised. Personally, I think there should be no caps in the first place.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
This is why I have asked on numerous occassions, for dilithium to be valued @ more than FM, than people would contribute dilithium far more often to fleet projects!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
That was a long long time ago. Probably season 5? One thing is for sure and that is it's pre-LoR
It was after season 6. Prolly at dec of 2012 it was 84 dil/zen. Of course I didn't have dil to exchange back than.
Well, the thing is VR mk ii gear is usually dirt cheap, and 1 single superior tech can usually take you to mk vii - mkviii easily, after that some further investment is needed.
Drops can get you by, but really exchange gear isn't to bad in pricing, at least to an extent!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
When things settle down, the Exchange seems to settle at a reasonable 200 or so these days. Whenever a sale or new/desirable ship comes, or influx of Dilithium happen, the price goes up.
As a F2P player who gets most of my shiny C-Store Shiny via the Exchange, I've learned to identify these patterns. I had actually forgotten about the Sheshar in the R&D packs and was wondering why it was going up so high. Seemed a bit odd unless altoholics were suddenly dumping their event awarded DL now. But now it makes sense. People want a shot at the Sheshar, and its not a guaranteed shot.
Basic economics in lieu of sinks basically say that if no one buys at the higher price, lower the price to a point where they will start buying again. Since it is player driven, while influenced by events as listed above, it will go up and down. NO ONE will buy at 500/1. That is a fact. The average player will be more comfortable around 200/1 and more trading occures. Speculation on sales and ships make it go up. Time brings it back down.
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colored text = mod mode
Because of these very same reasons the dil exchange needs to be in the low 400s. All you f2pers with your 10 to 20 toons are devaluing dil in my favor. Just because you all are so successful at "beating the system" does not mean I have to pay a premium for it.
The exchange does NOT NEED to be at any set point, and no group is responsible for anything. Most F2Pers probably only have 3 characters at most anyways unless they are like me and have figured out the Exchange. There is also the amount of time required to cap out all those alts every day. Too much effort for the casual player.
Its just the nature of the Exchange to fluctuate and settle at a certain point over time that is reasonable for both parties involved. It just happens to be the low 200s.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Gotta disagree with this completely for 2 reasons and I'll explain why.
If you're looking for certain mod combos such as [crtd]x2 [pen] or [dmg]x2 [pen] being 2 common examples, you're going to pay up for those types of weapons. I will agree some stuff is a bit on the high side but there is a reason for it. if for example I start crafting beams to sell I'm gambling on what mods I will get. If I craft 200 beams and I'm going for one of those combos, i may get 5 of what I'm after, but I may not get any of them. certain mod combos are harder to come by than others and that drives the prices of those items up.
The key thing with this is due to the fact you can upgrade those items from mk ii. If for example we have a Phaser Beam Array Mk II [crtd]x2 [pen] we want to upgrade, we pair that with an Experimental Beam upgrade and Major research boost, we have a great chance of upgrading rarity to ultra. Now that chance to upgrade will be 20% each time you hit the button. off of that one tech upgrade and research boost you can get all the way to mk vii or mk viii. It's possible that by mk iv that beam could turn into Phaser Beam Array Mk IV [Ac/Dm] [Crtd]x3 [Pen]. The fact that you have the potential for epic quality at mk iv is a huge deal.
The second thing is you don't need to worry about gear while leveling in the first place. You can buy the cheapo white quality stuff from the vendors to throw on a ship and use what you pick up from leveling in order to get by with until you hit level 50. The game doesn't really begin so to speak until you hit level 50 anyways, with even more stuff being unlocked at 60. You can pick up the purple quality mk ii stuff and use that to level with if you want to but you'll out level your gear within 10 levels and then you'll just need to rebuy everything again. It's not worth it to do as you're suggesting with low mark stuff. Don't even worry about gear until you hit 50 because it will save you a huge headache.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
People will buy at 500:1, if that's the fair market value. The most trading always occurs at fair market value. That is where the buyers' and sellers' interests meet. If the price is capped off, trading will stop. If it's capped low, people won't want to sell at a loss. And if its capped high, people won't want to buy at a loss.
Just because some people don't agree with the majority of the traders about what is the right price, doesn't mean it's not the right price. In my time I've seen it vary from below 100 to almost 400. It all depends on what you can do with Zen vs what you can do with dilithium.
New players don't need the exchange at all. I've never bought any gear for any of my toons while leveling up. Game's easy, just equip whatever.
And in case you still haven't caught on, the expensive low-mark items on the ex aren't meant for new players, but max-level players who upgrade them. Because starting with a low-mark item gives better chance of getting epics.
I agree.
Yeah... something about the forums seems to make quoting and responding work funny, doesn't it? Somehow it lost tacticalrook's comment back there (I put it back so it looked right because it was bugging me
As to the OP... I'm not sure Cryptic actually cares what the Dilithium Exchange is set at, so long as the Zen throughput is sufficient to make it profitable. It's the Zen that equates to money (past or present), and it's the Zen sellers rather than the dilithium grinders that fund the game. The rates will land wherever the tipping point lies between "TRIBBLE it, I'll just grind dilithium!" and "TRIBBLE it, I'll just buy dilithium!"
In many ways, though, it's the grinders that pick the price; the same folks that plan and plan and gather dilithium over time to purchase that next big shiny... often tend to flood the market when something shiny appears. Pay attention to the News and you'll get a general idea of when these things will change. New ship releases are a good example, the announcement of a "Promotion!" Pack is another, and sales on a given item/service are another still; when these overlap it tends to be even more noticable.
In the end, if we as players just want to grind dilithium instead of spending actual money... we're pretty much stuck with wherever the rates land.
...but...
As to players being more greedy since DR... well... DR made some big changes that impacted STO in many ways. Some old folks left, some new folks joined in, and so we have a different set of actual players operating in a different environment. That is a major discussion in and of itself, but not one that is likely to last very long... the forums have too much crazy and too much of the resulting "that thing which shall not be named, for in naming it do we bring it upon our posts" for a proper dialog. That and the forum migration also broke all of our old links and the devtracker function, making it a pain in the aft to find relevant information these days; it's tough to discuss mechanics that aren't actually what they appear or claim to be (damage, for example, isn't that simple).
Genuine question - what do you need that dil for? Small or solo fleet?
and for rattler - 200 was long long ago. We will not see it again. We wont see 230 again either.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I doubt people would buy at 500/1 because the time put in for the effort exceeds the reward. I've been around long enough to know. I was around when they first brought in the exchange. In my experience when there is no DL sink or event causing the exchange rates to go up or down... it seems to settle in the low 200s. Based on this behavior, I'm relatively confident in sayin that the low 200 range is the optimal baseline trading point. Yes people would buy at higher rates, but that's only because of events. Without events, it settles.
Seems like a reasonable point for both parties too. More Dilithium from people who have the time to grind it out, and more Zen for the time put into grinding that Dilithium. I guess you could call it a balance point.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
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"The low 200s" is where it has been for a few months recently. Don't mistake that for any kind of universal default.
My fleet is maxed, I am in an armada with 10 other fleets who are not maxed that need a lot of dil. Plus, I want to upgrade my gear on a massive scale.