How else were they to approach it? By not including a design taking any cues from a ship in the game. By including one design that takes cues from another design in game, (and one design that a great amount of people love), youve automatically biased the results of any contest toward that design, and against any of the others.
If the Jupiter had never existed, and this design won, I would be unhappy but atleast every design would have had its fair chance and I would have felt like my voice actually mattered in the process. With the Jupiter existing however it skews the results and any contest that was had was just going through the motions to get one design done, and anyone who voted for anything other than Omega didnt actually matter in the grand scheme of it.
This feels less like I had a choice in the design and more like the ship team wanted to redo the Jupiter, but didnt have the free time to do it on their own, so they had to get it through other means.
This was a poor contest. Not because my favourite design lost. But because not all of the designs were impartial. One design clearly had a bias. That one design won, not because it was objectively better (not even because it was subjectively better), it won because it was partially based on an earlier ship in game. Thats not how you run a contest. And any contest run that way is rigged. Just as this one was.
I think you're misplacing the bias, though. This isn't bias on the part of Cryptic, so much as bias on the part of the voters, isn't it? And since the act of voting is nothing more than declaring your bias, perhaps the outcome was predictable. That doesn't make it rigged or invalid. It makes it a representation of giving the players a chance to take what they wanted. We were also given the chance(s) to take other choices, but those selections lost out fair and square.
For a carrier I see a Fleet using it for many uses. Just like today's carriers used in Fleets. From regular patrols, to war use, to emergency evacuation / hospitals ships. The uses are nearly unlimited. Glad to see the Federation finally getting their own carrier to use.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
There is actual value in regards to the competition; the voting also shows preference for certain design features that they can include either as alternate costumes or in other future Fed ships because the majority preferred them.
Let look at the final 4 ships:
- NONE featured an old-fashioned circular saucer; the finalists consisted of 2 chevrons and 2 front-to-back ovoid saucers
- NONE featured the classic Fed ship look (saucer attached to neck attached to body attached to pylons attached to nacelles; or the Command Ship design setup)
- ALL featured a blended saucer/body plan like the Voyager; some with more saucer and less middle hull
- ALL featured 4 distinct and separate nacelles
In addition, the more vocal players across the mediums they advertised this competition on, from Reddit to the official forums itself, all voiced support towards purchasing any one of the final 4 designs regardless of who won or lost, as long as the runner-ups eventually made it into the game in some form. So they have an idea of what players will buy.
As well, the competition was not rigged. The Devs never stated whether or not the Omega was based on the Jupiter until now. If anything, the players themselves saw the design queues (and not just in Omega; but some insisted they saw elements in Alpha and Epsilon as well, myself included, despite the fact that Alpha and Epsilon later turned out to be originals for the competition) and voted based on it. Even when others were insistent that Omega wasn't related to the Jupiter (then proven wrong).
So all-in-all, the competition just guarantees the likelihood of the Fed players seeing more chevron saucer ships with 4 nacelles as new ships in the future; likely as new Specialist ships (such as the Intel/Command/Pilot ships) or the rare non-Specialist original ship (such as the Guardian; though one can make the case it's an Ambassador successor). While leaving the classic Fed ship designs to T6 versions of existing T5s (Andromeda, Arbiter, and Resolute).
If this ship has a commander Science seat on it, you can bet I'm gonna be running it on the PriorityOne livestream from now on.
Plleeeaaasse not a commander Science seat...Feds already have the Atrox for that. Why get an original Starfleet design carrier just to be science heavy again? Engineer would be much better.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
If this ship has a commander Science seat on it, you can bet I'm gonna be running it on the PriorityOne livestream from now on.
Plleeeaaasse not a commander Science seat...Feds already have the Atrox for that. Why get an original Starfleet design carrier just to be science heavy again? Engineer would be much better.
What! I thought everyone wanted Science Ships!?!
On a more serious note:
An Engineering Carrier sounds like a very unfun idea. Carriers are lowly armed and have poor mobility, but are tough. Sure, Aux2Dampeners or Emergency Power to Engines could theoretically help the mobility, but come on, it's wasted potential. And if you tried to build a tank, you couldn't hold aggro (and your pets will even work against you there). And DPS with 6 weapon slots and a low turn rate so that you can't even rely on low firing arc / high damage weapons?
With Science Powers, you at least get some weapon independent damage and crowd control abilities.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
why were the other varients not just added as well as COSTUME VARIENTS ... would solve all the problems of folks not getting the one they wanted in game,
I'll state up front that I am one of the handful of Beta devotees, but there are two things I wish had survived from the concept art:
1. These beautiful raised sweeping curves that flow along the hull and come to a point at the top of the hull giving it that go faster streamlined look.
2.The horizontally longer, wider deflector that maybe wouldn't look quite so "Cyclopsian".
As opposed to the texturized art:
1. The curves here lose their style points and work against the over all flow.
2. There seems to be a run of the "Cyclops" design being employed lately and here is another example. Making the actual deflector a bit more rectangular and less eyeballish would help here
Of course this is all one persons opinion and should be taken as such.
Well, on that final pic it appears to be a far more flowing and elegant design than I would have expected. This is the design language I like (as prominently seen on the Odyssey or the Hestia). Based on nothing but that one pic, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to using this ship.
BUT: Are we to assume FEDs get a T6 carrier before the faction that introduced carriers to STO: the KDF? And that at a time when the KDF is very low on T6 ships with any sci focus? Of course there's also ROMs understandably calling for their first 2-hangar bay ship.
So unless this carrier comes bundled with other factions' representatives as well, it's a really bad step in my opinion.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Wow! Looks even better in 3D. Now, please give us a release date before everyone's patience runs out and they start yelling about unimportant design quirks ... oops, too late.
I'll state up front that I am one of the handful of Beta devotees, but there are two things I wish had survived from the concept art:
1. These beautiful raised sweeping curves that flow along the hull and come to a point at the top of the hull giving it that go faster streamlined look.
2.The horizontally longer, wider deflector that maybe wouldn't look quite so "Cyclopsian".
As opposed to the texturized art:
1. The curves here lose their style points and work against the over all flow.
2. There seems to be a run of the "Cyclops" design being employed lately and here is another example. Making the actual deflector a bit more rectangular and less eyeballish would help here
Of course this is all one persons opinion and should be taken as such.
I agree, retain the concept art's sweeping curves and the wider deflector.
Or, if these options were included as variants in the "customize your starship" area. That would be cool
I'm still trying to understand why / how the community has chosen the least-starfleet, least-beautiful design among the eight initially suggested. I honestly can't. But i do respect the work of the art team anyways.
That's impossible. I'm told by expert Scotsmen that only Cryptic creates the least-Starfleet designs in the game.
You inspired me...
...though I wonder how many will actually get it. Ah well, blame it on Iconians.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
On a more serious note:
An Engineering Carrier sounds like a very unfun idea. Carriers are lowly armed and have poor mobility, but are tough. Sure, Aux2Dampeners or Emergency Power to Engines could theoretically help the mobility, but come on, it's wasted potential. And if you tried to build a tank, you couldn't hold aggro (and your pets will even work against you there). And DPS with 6 weapon slots and a low turn rate so that you can't even rely on low firing arc / high damage weapons?
With Science Powers, you at least get some weapon independent damage and crowd control abilities.[/quote]
Your right about the value of the science abilities, but again-we already have that. I'm hoping for a little more Tac and Engi mixed in, maybe with a Lt commander Sci for GW?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
"During that process anything goes, from the genius to the ridiculous. Why the ridiculous too? Because ideas (ridiculous or not) have this tendency of being persistent until you release them. The sooner you purge them from your mind, the better."
The most ridiculous thing done in this process was using a Poll to decide the ship's looks.
I was actually surprised at how bad the community's choices were.
This was an exciting look into the design process, but think how much better it would have been with the Beta choice being selected, as that's the only ship remotely resembling a Carrier in the bunch.
That said, please include a Beta skin option. It will boost your sales of this ship immensely.
Anybody else think that this will be a 3500 ZEN ship?
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This feels less like I had a choice in the design and more like the ship team wanted to redo the Jupiter, but didnt have the free time to do it on their own, so they had to get it through other means.
This was a poor contest. Not because my favourite design lost. But because not all of the designs were impartial. One design clearly had a bias. That one design won, not because it was objectively better (not even because it was subjectively better), it won because it was partially based on an earlier ship in game. Thats not how you run a contest. And any contest run that way is rigged. Just as this one was.
Don't be too unhappy, this is exactly how the F-22 won the contract from the Air Force over the F-23.
Both competing companies submitted futuristic design blueprints to the AF who gave them the go ahead.
The F-23 people built the exact aircraft from their submitted blueprints producing a superior airframe.
The F-22 people caved and built an airframe using outdated existing aircraft bits that performed way under par compared to the F-23.
The AF had a bunch of high ranking people come in to judge and choose the winning design. None of the people had any engineering or science backgrounds, being simply available as they all had low profile jobs. (CBPO (book keeping), Supply, Motor pool etc.)
Of course they picked the F-22 as (and I quote) "It looks the most like an airplane."
This feels less like I had a choice in the design and more like the ship team wanted to redo the Jupiter, but didnt have the free time to do it on their own, so they had to get it through other means.
This was a poor contest. Not because my favourite design lost. But because not all of the designs were impartial. One design clearly had a bias. That one design won, not because it was objectively better (not even because it was subjectively better), it won because it was partially based on an earlier ship in game. Thats not how you run a contest. And any contest run that way is rigged. Just as this one was.
Don't be too unhappy, this is exactly how the F-22 won the contract from the Air Force over the F-24.
Both competing companies submitted futuristic design blueprints to the AF who gave them the go ahead.
The F-24 people built the exact aircraft from their submitted blueprints producing a superior airframe.
The F-22 people caved and built an airframe using outdated existing aircraft bits that performed way under par compared to the F-24.
The AF had a bunch of high ranking people come in to judge and choose the winning design. None of the people had any engineering or science backgrounds, being simply available as they all had low profile jobs. (CBPO (book keeping), Supply, Motor pool etc.)
Of course they picked the F-22 as (and I quote) "It looks the most like an airplane."
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Probably not going to happen. It'll go only one of 3 endless requests:
- Carrier Scimitar: -1 fore weapon for 2 hangars, but otherwise same stats; upped for T6.
- Romulan Scimitar: Same as Reman Scimitar but in Romulan curves; also upped for T6.
- Scimitar Scimitar: The exact same ship just buffed for T6; but probably with wings upswept rather than downswept (no matter how silly that would look).
I of course, would expect another; the X-Wing Scimitar. In a stunning reversal of having 4 wings joining into 2 like the Aehlahl or the D'D, and instead taking the Kara/Haakona's x-wing shape all the way, The Romulans and Remans just added another pair of wings with extra firepower hardpoints. First ever 6/2 warship. The benefit of 4 wings you ask? Faster Thalaron Pulses!
I love the ship and voted for it, but the Jupiter had nothing to do with it for me, I'd never payed enough attention to the details of the Jupiter to bother to notice the simularities until after the contest and someone posted a picturing Omega and Jupiter.
The reasons I voted for it were 1. I like the look, 2. It was one of two designs that seem to be big enough and shaped right to be a carrier, and of those two only Omega survived to the end 3. Omega is my favourite greek letter, weird reason I acknowledge and if it was my only one I wouldn't have voted Omega, but its a nice bonus.
Its obvious this ship is likely to be called a Jupiter class ship at this point, which fits the class and the shape themetically.
Its a big ship from what I can tell and Jupiter is the largest planet in the solar systen, the ship is surrounded by pets and so is Jupiter (its pets being moons), the deflector looks like an eye, Jupiter has its own "eye" the giant spot.
Also people compare it to the original Jupiter, but thier appears to be other influences, such as the shielded hangar bays which I believe are inspired by the Atrox.
They have been slowly replacing all the original low-quality NPC-only ships with new ones - the command ships replaced the Typhoon in most places, for example. I suspect the old Jupiter will be gone shortly after this ship is launched.
We had the Command cruisers for a good long while before they replaced the Typhoon, and I think they only did that after suggestions on the forums long after the fact. So, yeah. Better to remind them now instead of later.
Something something no longer up to the standards of quality, something something trash old art to make way for the new.
Actually they replaced the Typhoons most places the day they came out.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Hmm, I'd like it to have a similar layout to the Kitty Carrier with 4 total boffs, LTC Tac, LTC Engi, Comm Sci and LT Sci. Basically the kitty carrier with slightly less science and slightly more tac.
I thought the Odyssey's dual level bridge was extreme. This one looks like it has three levels. And I love Starfleet's new hull scheme. Really gives off the vibe that the ships are progressing towards their future counterparts while keeping some of the old in play.
And is it just me, or have the nacelles changed in design? They looked like a more refined version of the Odyssey's. Snippets of what's to come for the flagship?
This ship is definitely going to be a Dreadnought Carrier, i.e. Commander Tactical instead of Commander Science, 4/3 weapons layout, and the ability to load dual cannons.
You can tell because there are dual cannon emplacements in the front of the ship near the deflector and there are little turret hardpoints (cyan dots) above the forward hangar bay and just behind the bridge module. Those turret hardpoints are only found on ships/ship models that can use dual cannons like the Avenger Battlecruiser, Command Battlecruisers, Pilot Escorts, etc.
I'm happy about this though, especially since I planned to use this ship on my main Tactical captain, on who a Commander Science station would've been decidedly less useful than a Commander Tactical one. It would be cool if they made the Alpha concept into a full-fledged ship and made that ship the traditional Science-focused carrier. It certainly looks the part more than the Omega design.
Comments
I think you're misplacing the bias, though. This isn't bias on the part of Cryptic, so much as bias on the part of the voters, isn't it? And since the act of voting is nothing more than declaring your bias, perhaps the outcome was predictable. That doesn't make it rigged or invalid. It makes it a representation of giving the players a chance to take what they wanted. We were also given the chance(s) to take other choices, but those selections lost out fair and square.
For a carrier I see a Fleet using it for many uses. Just like today's carriers used in Fleets. From regular patrols, to war use, to emergency evacuation / hospitals ships. The uses are nearly unlimited. Glad to see the Federation finally getting their own carrier to use.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Let look at the final 4 ships:
- NONE featured an old-fashioned circular saucer; the finalists consisted of 2 chevrons and 2 front-to-back ovoid saucers
- NONE featured the classic Fed ship look (saucer attached to neck attached to body attached to pylons attached to nacelles; or the Command Ship design setup)
- ALL featured a blended saucer/body plan like the Voyager; some with more saucer and less middle hull
- ALL featured 4 distinct and separate nacelles
In addition, the more vocal players across the mediums they advertised this competition on, from Reddit to the official forums itself, all voiced support towards purchasing any one of the final 4 designs regardless of who won or lost, as long as the runner-ups eventually made it into the game in some form. So they have an idea of what players will buy.
As well, the competition was not rigged. The Devs never stated whether or not the Omega was based on the Jupiter until now. If anything, the players themselves saw the design queues (and not just in Omega; but some insisted they saw elements in Alpha and Epsilon as well, myself included, despite the fact that Alpha and Epsilon later turned out to be originals for the competition) and voted based on it. Even when others were insistent that Omega wasn't related to the Jupiter (then proven wrong).
So all-in-all, the competition just guarantees the likelihood of the Fed players seeing more chevron saucer ships with 4 nacelles as new ships in the future; likely as new Specialist ships (such as the Intel/Command/Pilot ships) or the rare non-Specialist original ship (such as the Guardian; though one can make the case it's an Ambassador successor). While leaving the classic Fed ship designs to T6 versions of existing T5s (Andromeda, Arbiter, and Resolute).
Please fix pets popping like soap bubbles & pet command responsiveness.
Plleeeaaasse not a commander Science seat...Feds already have the Atrox for that. Why get an original Starfleet design carrier just to be science heavy again? Engineer would be much better.
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
What! I thought everyone wanted Science Ships!?!
On a more serious note:
An Engineering Carrier sounds like a very unfun idea. Carriers are lowly armed and have poor mobility, but are tough. Sure, Aux2Dampeners or Emergency Power to Engines could theoretically help the mobility, but come on, it's wasted potential. And if you tried to build a tank, you couldn't hold aggro (and your pets will even work against you there). And DPS with 6 weapon slots and a low turn rate so that you can't even rely on low firing arc / high damage weapons?
With Science Powers, you at least get some weapon independent damage and crowd control abilities.
1. These beautiful raised sweeping curves that flow along the hull and come to a point at the top of the hull giving it that go faster streamlined look.
2.The horizontally longer, wider deflector that maybe wouldn't look quite so "Cyclopsian".
As opposed to the texturized art:
1. The curves here lose their style points and work against the over all flow.
2. There seems to be a run of the "Cyclops" design being employed lately and here is another example. Making the actual deflector a bit more rectangular and less eyeballish would help here
Of course this is all one persons opinion and should be taken as such.
BUT: Are we to assume FEDs get a T6 carrier before the faction that introduced carriers to STO: the KDF? And that at a time when the KDF is very low on T6 ships with any sci focus? Of course there's also ROMs understandably calling for their first 2-hangar bay ship.
So unless this carrier comes bundled with other factions' representatives as well, it's a really bad step in my opinion.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I agree, retain the concept art's sweeping curves and the wider deflector.
Or, if these options were included as variants in the "customize your starship" area. That would be cool
You inspired me...
...though I wonder how many will actually get it. Ah well, blame it on Iconians.
What! I thought everyone wanted Science Ships!?!
On a more serious note:
An Engineering Carrier sounds like a very unfun idea. Carriers are lowly armed and have poor mobility, but are tough. Sure, Aux2Dampeners or Emergency Power to Engines could theoretically help the mobility, but come on, it's wasted potential. And if you tried to build a tank, you couldn't hold aggro (and your pets will even work against you there). And DPS with 6 weapon slots and a low turn rate so that you can't even rely on low firing arc / high damage weapons?
With Science Powers, you at least get some weapon independent damage and crowd control abilities.[/quote]
Your right about the value of the science abilities, but again-we already have that. I'm hoping for a little more Tac and Engi mixed in, maybe with a Lt commander Sci for GW?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
The most ridiculous thing done in this process was using a Poll to decide the ship's looks.
I was actually surprised at how bad the community's choices were.
This was an exciting look into the design process, but think how much better it would have been with the Beta choice being selected, as that's the only ship remotely resembling a Carrier in the bunch.
That said, please include a Beta skin option. It will boost your sales of this ship immensely.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Don't be too unhappy, this is exactly how the F-22 won the contract from the Air Force over the F-23.
Both competing companies submitted futuristic design blueprints to the AF who gave them the go ahead.
The F-23 people built the exact aircraft from their submitted blueprints producing a superior airframe.
The F-22 people caved and built an airframe using outdated existing aircraft bits that performed way under par compared to the F-23.
The AF had a bunch of high ranking people come in to judge and choose the winning design. None of the people had any engineering or science backgrounds, being simply available as they all had low profile jobs. (CBPO (book keeping), Supply, Motor pool etc.)
Of course they picked the F-22 as (and I quote) "It looks the most like an airplane."
Need I say, "Duh?"
Yeah, and I liked the YF-23...
Probably not going to happen. It'll go only one of 3 endless requests:
- Carrier Scimitar: -1 fore weapon for 2 hangars, but otherwise same stats; upped for T6.
- Romulan Scimitar: Same as Reman Scimitar but in Romulan curves; also upped for T6.
- Scimitar Scimitar: The exact same ship just buffed for T6; but probably with wings upswept rather than downswept (no matter how silly that would look).
I of course, would expect another; the X-Wing Scimitar. In a stunning reversal of having 4 wings joining into 2 like the Aehlahl or the D'D, and instead taking the Kara/Haakona's x-wing shape all the way, The Romulans and Remans just added another pair of wings with extra firepower hardpoints. First ever 6/2 warship. The benefit of 4 wings you ask? Faster Thalaron Pulses!
The reasons I voted for it were 1. I like the look, 2. It was one of two designs that seem to be big enough and shaped right to be a carrier, and of those two only Omega survived to the end 3. Omega is my favourite greek letter, weird reason I acknowledge and if it was my only one I wouldn't have voted Omega, but its a nice bonus.
Its obvious this ship is likely to be called a Jupiter class ship at this point, which fits the class and the shape themetically.
Its a big ship from what I can tell and Jupiter is the largest planet in the solar systen, the ship is surrounded by pets and so is Jupiter (its pets being moons), the deflector looks like an eye, Jupiter has its own "eye" the giant spot.
Also people compare it to the original Jupiter, but thier appears to be other influences, such as the shielded hangar bays which I believe are inspired by the Atrox.
Actually they replaced the Typhoons most places the day they came out.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
And is it just me, or have the nacelles changed in design? They looked like a more refined version of the Odyssey's. Snippets of what's to come for the flagship?
You can tell because there are dual cannon emplacements in the front of the ship near the deflector and there are little turret hardpoints (cyan dots) above the forward hangar bay and just behind the bridge module. Those turret hardpoints are only found on ships/ship models that can use dual cannons like the Avenger Battlecruiser, Command Battlecruisers, Pilot Escorts, etc.
I'm happy about this though, especially since I planned to use this ship on my main Tactical captain, on who a Commander Science station would've been decidedly less useful than a Commander Tactical one. It would be cool if they made the Alpha concept into a full-fledged ship and made that ship the traditional Science-focused carrier. It certainly looks the part more than the Omega design.