I will admit I was guilty of buying tier 6 ships, but I did pick up mostly different ships like intel, command or pilot ships because they were new and different.
Though will fully admit and I broke down, bought the pathfinder and 3 escort set. Merely because I have just about every single BoP and I wanted it along with the Valiant. Tier 6 ROM was just icing on the cake.
But mostly I've bought stuff that was NOT a retread, and that was a good thing. But pathfinder, and Valiant pack, last retreads I buy.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I like level increases in games that I play... when it happens new stuff normally comes out with it. I think the major issue here is that PWE increases the price of ships each tier by 500 zen. Maybe if they cap the prices at 3k a ship for top tier... as they increase tiers they will adjust the prices of each tier... so top tier is always 3k.
assuming we get 2 to 3 seasons a year... after 2 years or 5 to 6 seasons, a new level increase imo would be good.
Usually, as is seen in games like World of W*rcraft, level cap increases are meant to reset power creep. They come with a whole set of new content and gear for players to progress through and enjoy. That model works great...in games like WoW.
In STO, things are very different.
1) Cryptic is a much smaller team than what Blizzard has at its disposal. Had Cryptic rendered all content prior to Delta obsolete, the world of available, meaningful things for players to do would've shrunk drastically. In response, they'd need to put out a lot more than they did in order to avoid players finishing the delta arc, goofing off in the kobali zone, and then waiting around for new content.
2) The upgrade system failed, as it completely defeated the point of using a level cap increase to reset power creep. Don't get me wrong, it's great to be able to improve old favorites, but by doing so, those old favorites still remain competitive in the modern endgame. Thus, newer things need to be even stronger and power creep marches on.
3) People have spent money on existing content, in some cases a lot. In WoW, it's easy to render a past expansion's gear invalid because nobody spent money to open hundreds upon thousands of lockboxes for it. Unfortunately, Cryptic really does need to consider how the lockbox-consuming community will respond to having their hundreds and thousands of dollars suddenly turned to dust. These people make money for Cryptic and are needed for silver freeloaders like me to continue playing it.
- - -
In hindsight, perhaps "shrinking the world" isn't so bad when you consider that players generally don't seem to do queued content outside of infected space and khitomer vortex...even after all these years. I don't think they should be removed, as I'm generally against removing content outright, but they should definitely be deprecated and made less appealing.
As for the upgrade system, I really do have mixed feelings about it. It's already in place, which means changing, restricting, or otherwise cheapening the benefits of upgrading "older" gear becomes problematic. Assuming Mk XVI was our newest "endgame" gear level...
Outright removing the upgrade system would TRIBBLE a lot of people (mainly big spenders) off. "What do you mean the TRIBBLE I upgraded to Mk XIV orange-quality is now obsolete!? I quit!"
Restricting current gear to Mk XIV while having new-expansion gear start at Mk XIV, upgradeable to Mk XVI would halt power creep and allow people to refine their gear still, but it would TRIBBLE the same people mentioned above off.
So what do we do with the current upgrade system? I actually have no idea.
Finally, in terms of spending money on ships and such, while T5U was a great idea, it obviously had to be done in a way that still encouraged people to seek out the newest, shiniest ships. Do we allow T5U and T6 ships to scale up to match T7 ships, continuing to foster power creep? Or do we reset power creep, greatly limit the selection of "good" available ships to a handful of whatever T7 ships are created upon release? This is also a tough question, and I don't have an answer because none of the other F2P games I'm familiar with are good models.
In fact, STO uses the best F2P model I've encountered to date. They're pretty much pioneers in legit F2P, basically. They are the model.
Having said that, yeah. Hopefully there is no further level increase, or if there is, hopefully there's some genius design going on that will somehow manage to please both the whales and the minnows.
I think the main problem for T5 ships were the limitations on configurations. There are only so many combinations of console and bridge officer layouts that can be done. However, specialization and starship traits greatly alleviate this problem, while they also added one more bridge officer seat.
As long as they keep introducing specializations they might be able to make ships forever.
Because of the massive and I mean massive monotization of Tier 6. I believe all of sto's player base would just throw thier hands up and say F#@? IT!!!!!! it, that is if T7 was even mentioned any sooner than 2018. I mean enough is enough. There are too many ppl who have invested to much in this game to have to start from scratch again. I like sto but before I do another grind that cost as much as a PS4, XBOX1 and 40 games I'll give all my stuffs away and be damn happy to do it. Then after that uninstall the game and have electro shock theropy done to myself to forget sto ever exsisted (even if that means I also forget how to TRIBBLE and wipe me TRIBBLE casue it will be worth it). Just the thought of T7 makes my brain hurt. I swear it almost causes me to go into a hulk type rage and want to bust my pc and monitor all to oblivion just thinking about it.
P.S. I do owe cryptic a debt of gratitude in a strange way. Because of them I have learned how evil F2P really is and cryptic has made me learn the hard way and for that I am eternally gratefull. It goes way beyond them turning me away from F2P games. Because of what I know now I can teach others how evil F2P really is and maybe save someone from becoming a victom.
I don't really care what you're on about with regard to level increases. That's not what I posted. My post was discussing a select group of people within our circle of friends whom I have known for many years. Among them are people who refused to buy T6 versions of their existing ships. Those same people will most certainly not buy a T7 version when they come out.
You're a little hypocritical as you've already stated that some of these friends of yours have in fact got T6 ships already (even though begrudgingly), and then here you are claiming these very same people refuse to buy T6 ships. Which is it? These friends of yours either have purchased T6 ships or they haven't. Make up your mind.
And you seem to have poor reading comprehension skills.
Another hypocritical comment from you, considering your inability to read (and understand) the post made by iconians. He's wrote:
For every person who says they aren't going to re-buy their ships at T7 you're either lying, or there are 10 other people who will if you don't.
You (in your ignorance it would seem) have quoted only the bit you need to make an otherwise futile point. I have bolded the important bit that you have seemingly missed. This second half of his message clearly states "or there are 10 other people who will if you don't". This clearly shows that he wasn't calling everyone a liar. Instead he was suggesting that if [those] people weren't lying, then there would be people that would make the purchase regardless. Kind of comes full circle with regard to the sales.
If you're going to attempt to call someone out for their inability to comprehend a discussion, make sure you're doing a perfect job yourself, save looking the fool.
For all those wanting Tier 7 ships I do hope you realise that each tier increase of ship dramatically reduces the chances of any new faction arriving in game due to the number of ships which need to be produced for release of that faction.
At this stage in the games development, any future faction wouldn't be worth it. It doesn't matter who we're playing these days, we're all doing exactly the same thing, we've a little story to set us on our way, and then all the missions, all the content, everything - it's all the same. I know people want other factions (Cardassians, Liberated Borg, Mercenaries) but Cryptic would have to incorporate any of these [would be] factions into every existing element of the game, and I don't think any of them (or most of us for that matter) are aware of just how much would need reworking.
I have given up on seeing any new faction, and if one is released, it's highly unlikely I'll be bothering with it. It would be at least two years away I'd think, and the amount of content and further reps that'll likely be introduced before then, it'll just be too much for half the community to want to bother with again. Can you honestly see half of the community choosing to start a new character for another faction with the then-quest of leveling them all the way to 60, attaining all the reps (repeatable PvE queue missions to get the marks) and then a further grind for the specialization points? I don't.
I will admit I was guilty of buying tier 6 ships, but I did pick up mostly different ships like intel, command or pilot ships because they were new and different.
Though will fully admit and I broke down, bought the pathfinder and 3 escort set. Merely because I have just about every single BoP and I wanted it along with the Valiant. Tier 6 ROM was just icing on the cake.
But mostly I've bought stuff that was NOT a retread, and that was a good thing. But pathfinder, and Valiant pack, last retreads I buy.
I appreciate your honesty. And really, it doesn't matter if you did or didn't. If you like your purchases, hey, it's your money. I spent money on that special promotion for Chase Masterson's charity and acquired my very first T6 ship through a purchase that way. The major difference being ethical monetization. So I did not mind.
But from a bean counting standpoint, Cryptic doesn't care much for our reasons on buying various things. They just see the profit numbers. They see metrics. Whatever feedback we leave over why we buy it is inconsequential to the people in charge. As long as we buy it, they don't care what our reasons are.
And there are enough players out there (likely not on the forums), who simply don't care. I am saving up my Zen stipend and dilithium and will likely buy any T6 Odyssey they come out with, so I have no problems admitting my own hypocrisy. The majority decided, and they decided they're perfectly fine with rebuying their ships over and over again.
I don't agree, but it doesn't matter what my opinion is. Talk is cheap. Money says more.
I don't really care what you're on about with regard to level increases. That's not what I posted. My post was discussing a select group of people within our circle of friends whom I have known for many years. Among them are people who refused to buy T6 versions of their existing ships. Those same people will most certainly not buy a T7 version when they come out.
You're a little hypocritical as you've already stated that some of these friends of yours have in fact got T6 ships already (even though begrudgingly), and then here you are claiming these very same people refuse to buy T6 ships. Which is it? These friends of yours either have purchased T6 ships or they haven't. Make up your mind.
And you seem to have poor reading comprehension skills.
Another hypocritical comment from you, considering your inability to read (and understand) the post made by iconians. He's wrote:
For every person who says they aren't going to re-buy their ships at T7 you're either lying, or there are 10 other people who will if you don't.
You (in your ignorance it would seem) have quoted only the bit you need to make an otherwise futile point. I have bolded the important bit that you have seemingly missed. This second half of his message clearly states "or there are 10 other people who will if you don't". This clearly shows that he wasn't calling everyone a liar. Instead he was suggesting that if [those] people weren't lying, then there would be people that would make the purchase regardless. Kind of comes full circle with regard to the sales.
If you're going to attempt to call someone out for their inability to comprehend a discussion, make sure you're doing a perfect job yourself, save looking the fool.
For all those wanting Tier 7 ships I do hope you realise that each tier increase of ship dramatically reduces the chances of any new faction arriving in game due to the number of ships which need to be produced for release of that faction.
At this stage in the games development, any future faction wouldn't be worth it. It doesn't matter who we're playing these days, we're all doing exactly the same thing, we've a little story to set us on our way, and then all the missions, all the content, everything - it's all the same. I know people want other factions (Cardassians, Liberated Borg, Mercenaries) but Cryptic would have to incorporate any of these [would be] factions into every existing element of the game, and I don't think any of them (or most of us for that matter) are aware of just how much would need reworking.
I have given up on seeing any new faction, and if one is released, it's highly unlikely I'll be bothering with it. It would be at least two years away I'd think, and the amount of content and further reps that'll likely be introduced before then, it'll just be too much for half the community to want to bother with again. Can you honestly see half of the community choosing to start a new character for another faction with the then-quest of leveling them all the way to 60, attaining all the reps (repeatable PvE queue missions to get the marks) and then a further grind for the specialization points? I don't.
though I cant speak for anyone else I certainly wont buy any T7 ships if they come out, I only bought the first T6 ship pack because I thought it would be absolutely ages before the gave away any free T6 event ships and I certainly didn't think they would release T6 veteran ships.
luckily I didn't spend any money buying the T6 ship pack as if I knew then what I know now I probably would not have bothered, so now I have 3 account unlocked T6 event ships plus 3 T6 vet ships one for each faction so basically every one of my character has access to 4 T6 ships that I got for free and I assume the same will happen with T7 ships at least for the event ships if nothing else.
whats the point of buying T7 ships if that's going to happen.
if I didn't use converted dilithium but real money to get the T6 ships I would be gutted.
also if they did bring out T7 ships I would probably have to pay for T6u upgrades where event ships and veteran ships get free upgrades so I will stick with free ships from now on, no more dil spent on pointless purchases.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I am assuming you're playing a character of sorts here, I do draw the line at eating real humans in real life, even humans I've only ever seen as written text in character as an alien pig on the internet .
It's easy to have a lot of with endless Targ jokes
You do know there's a different meaning to "eating" someone, like that sassy Targ sow you're looking at the whole time bantering with me?
Nah, I'm of course playing a role. Most of the time I pretend to be a bipedal ape on the internet, but sometimes people call me out on typos which I cannot entirely avoid as there are very few keyboards made to work with cloven hooves
And hooray for Targ jokes
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
though I cant speak for anyone else I certainly wont buy any T7 ships if they come out, I only bought the first T6 ship pack because I thought it would be absolutely ages before the gave away any free T6 event ships and I certainly didn't think they would release T6 veteran ships.
Oh I agree with you, I'm not paying for a T6 ship either, although through the exchange and fleet ship modules, I might grab a Fleet T6 (only cause I don't have to pay that much for it, if anything; it's only EC, not zen). I only own a single T6 ship, and that's the Andromeda (only because it was a free giveaway; I wouldn't be using it otherwise).
In hindsight, if T7 does come, then T6 ships will likely be easier acquired (secondary lock box ships etc) and as such, it'll be just as easy to get ahold of them. It'll be the people not wanting to upgrade from T5/U that'll struggle, though it would seem if there's another huge jump, a lot of people will be sailing off anyway, so it wont matter too much to them.
The devs have mentioned several times there are no plans to increase level cap for at LEAST another couple of years. This thread is merely thinly veiled DOOOOOOOM and player created rumour with no basis in fact
The devs have mentioned several times there are no plans to increase level cap for at LEAST another couple of years. This thread is merely thinly veiled DOOOOOOOM and player created rumour with no basis in fact
Really? I see it as a question of being asked 'when' is this happen, not *if* as most of us seem to agree it is happening at some point. I also don't see this being anything about doom, if anything it's the opposite of that because Cryptic & STO would benefit from this greatly.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Most folks I know won't be buying their favorite ships a third time either if they introduce T7.
Most people (not everyone) you know wouldn't upgrade to Tier 7 because of the progression reasons. Check. My argument however is that if people upgraded their ships once, they'll likely do so again, the very reason they upgraded from T5 to T6 in the first place is because they care about the game and their progression enough to do so.
That is my basis for my argument. You may be right, but you can't know for certain what the future holds for these friends of yours. It's easy for someone to say "well I wont be buying a T7 ship", I expect a lot of people on the forums said the same when T6 came around, but then over time, many people made the upgrade, some are yet to do so. I also suspect (although I, alike you, cannot confirm either way) that one or two of these friends you speak of will inevitably make that upgrade.
I do not claim to know these people better than you - I don't, although logic would seem to indicate that there's a possibility for them participating in another upgrade several years down the line. I understand all too well that you've said most people, but even among them, I'm thinking some will change their minds. It does make me wonder why you commented at all though, only to tell us that some people you know did upgrade, and some people didn't? Yeah, thanks for that. Real insightful!
I understood what he wrote just fine. It doesn't matter if 1 person or 100,000 people buy a T7 ship. That doesn't mean ANYONE claiming they won't buy one is a liar. Of course there will be people that buy them. Of course there will be people who will buy one that said they wouldn't. There will also be those who will say they won't buy one and won't. Those people aren't liars.
But he wasn't calling them a liar. You're reading his comment as one thing, when in actual fact, it seems to be two. His comment explains [would-be] ship sales. He hasn't called anyone a liar as far as I can see. That said, as mentioned above, a lot of people who say they wont do something actually do, so there's always going to be a segment of people who will say they wouldn't upgrade, but actually would.
Feel free to try and belittle me further. I'm finding your attempt at patronizing rather entertaining.
they decided they're perfectly fine with rebuying their ships over and over again.
I don't personally see it as rebuying any more than buying a 2016 car is rebuying when you trade in a 2012 car....
You have a point. And the longer they wait until they start trying that scheme of T7s, the more they may get away with it. Buying a T7 when you had a T6 5 or 6 years down the road can be seen by some, not all but some, as trading in a 2016 Camry for a 2021 Camry. Year by year, tier by tier however, it's more like manufactured obsolescence and I am not going to be any part of it. That's more like buying a 2016 car, having it break down and stall on you in a year, finding out there's no warranty on it and having that same car company call you up trying to sell you a 2017 car. And you know that the 2017 is going to stall out on you again as the best indicator of past behavior is future behavior.
Once again, nothing wrong with your post. You have a good point. I just have one of my own as well.
That's not really the same thing. I was addressing upgrading to T6 versions from existing T5 ships.
Actually, it's very close to the same thing. The discussion is about whether people would upgrade from T6 to T7, not specifically about whether they would upgrade a T6 Intrepid to a T7 Intrepid.
If someone upgrades from a T5 Defiant to a T6 Defiant, that's an upgrade. If someone upgrades from a T5 Assault Cruiser to a T6 Eclipse, that's still an upgrade. This discussion is about an upgrade from T6 to T7, it doesn't matter whether it's the same model/skin of ship, what matters is that there's another tier of ship involved.
Which is basically what I've done. Again did get the pathfinder and Valiant 3 set, but most of the tier 6 ships I got were from the DR pack, Presideo and sci raptor.
All ships that are NOT resells. And if tier 7 does come, I plan to keep that pattern, mostly buying ships that are brand new.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Another level cap increase would be a stupid idea, remember how long it takes to get from 1 to 60, the next cap increase would lead to grinding and farming for weeks or months, imagine this for, lets say, 4 to 7 characters per account and there would be nothing but farming plus T7 and mk XVI would be a huge money waste (what should come after epic quality? [CrtX]x3? What should make T7 special?) so no, there should not be any cap increase again
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I would ditto that, I don't see any need to bring in T7 ships and I foresee many players being very peeved if they did and either just not bothering to upgrade further or at worst even quitting the game in disgust.
and what about the pledge cryptic made about T5 ships when the T6 upgrades happened.
quote :- "Players have been invested in this tier of ships for 4 years and we wanted to avoid devaluing the time and money spent in obtaining them."
well to some extent they kept this pledge even tough it was at a price, how are they going to maintain the T5 ship from devaluing in the face of T7 ships.
I see no reason they cant just add more specializations but in my opinion they need to leave the level cap at 60 and avoid introducing T7 ships at all costs.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I would ditto that, I don't see any need to bring in T7 ships and I foresee many players being very peeved if they did and either just not bothering to upgrade further or at worst even quitting the game in disgust.
and what about the pledge cryptic made about T5 ships when the T6 upgrades happened.
quote :- "Players have been invested in this tier of ships for 4 years and we wanted to avoid devaluing the time and money spent in obtaining them."
well to some extent they kept this pledge even tough it was at a price, how are they going to maintain the T5 ship from devaluing in the face of T7 ships.
I see no reason they cant just add more specializations but in my opinion they need to leave the level cap at 60 and avoid introducing T7 ships at all costs.
It's even worse than that. They devalued the T5s with the first wave of intel T6 ships, just by perception of superiority alone. The more T6 ships that were released the more reasonable it seemed to punish other non-T6 players. Some people started tier-checking their "teammates" in STFs. If one was a T5 or T5U, they warp out, leaving the rest to figure out how to beat an enemy with only 4, or even 3 ships. There was one instance when 2 warped out immediately upon seeing an Excelsior (before the resolute was released). Another asked him how much DPS he was packing, and in short order warped out himself. This has already proven to be an instrument for damning those who do not keep up with the latest shiniest ships.
I lay the blame at the feet of the Devs who thought it was a good idea to introduce T6 ships. Back then, they wanted more money, and plenty of people use cash, not dil-to-zen to pick them up. This time, at T6, at least was the mitigating circumstances that they were ignorant of the unintended consequences. Hindsight is 20/20, it's foresight that is fuzzy at times. If they try T7s, now with full knowledge of what happened before, they will be active participants in the trolling and abuse of those who cannot afford T7s.
There maybe those who will stick around gleefully. There likely will be those who stick around, even after protesting against T7s, biting the $40 bullet each and every ship that comes. And there will yes very likely be those that used to play the game. Reasons are not limited to protesting T7s and just sticking by their protest out of principle. There are those whos budgets will be broken. Some may think they can still play with the the T5 or T6 ships, but find themselves being trolled after a tier-checking b@$tard finds them out, and they've had enough of it. And those reasons are just off the top of my head and that's where I'll keep it because I'm noticing the wall of China of text that I decide not to finish.
Bottom line: T7s? Maybe enough players will stick around and buy ship after ship, year after year, tier after tier, and they sell enough to get away with it. Maybe enough players find no point in buying manufactured obsolescence and it's the end of STO.
Please no level increase. I mean I put actual money in this game. And what my ships become obsolete? Some players left the last time over this. And I will make the occasional investment in this game but that will be too much for me.If that happens I would have to consider playing another game.
Comments
Though will fully admit and I broke down, bought the pathfinder and 3 escort set. Merely because I have just about every single BoP and I wanted it along with the Valiant. Tier 6 ROM was just icing on the cake.
But mostly I've bought stuff that was NOT a retread, and that was a good thing. But pathfinder, and Valiant pack, last retreads I buy.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Usually, as is seen in games like World of W*rcraft, level cap increases are meant to reset power creep. They come with a whole set of new content and gear for players to progress through and enjoy. That model works great...in games like WoW.
In STO, things are very different.
1) Cryptic is a much smaller team than what Blizzard has at its disposal. Had Cryptic rendered all content prior to Delta obsolete, the world of available, meaningful things for players to do would've shrunk drastically. In response, they'd need to put out a lot more than they did in order to avoid players finishing the delta arc, goofing off in the kobali zone, and then waiting around for new content.
2) The upgrade system failed, as it completely defeated the point of using a level cap increase to reset power creep. Don't get me wrong, it's great to be able to improve old favorites, but by doing so, those old favorites still remain competitive in the modern endgame. Thus, newer things need to be even stronger and power creep marches on.
3) People have spent money on existing content, in some cases a lot. In WoW, it's easy to render a past expansion's gear invalid because nobody spent money to open hundreds upon thousands of lockboxes for it. Unfortunately, Cryptic really does need to consider how the lockbox-consuming community will respond to having their hundreds and thousands of dollars suddenly turned to dust. These people make money for Cryptic and are needed for silver freeloaders like me to continue playing it.
- - -
In hindsight, perhaps "shrinking the world" isn't so bad when you consider that players generally don't seem to do queued content outside of infected space and khitomer vortex...even after all these years. I don't think they should be removed, as I'm generally against removing content outright, but they should definitely be deprecated and made less appealing.
As for the upgrade system, I really do have mixed feelings about it. It's already in place, which means changing, restricting, or otherwise cheapening the benefits of upgrading "older" gear becomes problematic. Assuming Mk XVI was our newest "endgame" gear level...
So what do we do with the current upgrade system? I actually have no idea.
Finally, in terms of spending money on ships and such, while T5U was a great idea, it obviously had to be done in a way that still encouraged people to seek out the newest, shiniest ships. Do we allow T5U and T6 ships to scale up to match T7 ships, continuing to foster power creep? Or do we reset power creep, greatly limit the selection of "good" available ships to a handful of whatever T7 ships are created upon release? This is also a tough question, and I don't have an answer because none of the other F2P games I'm familiar with are good models.
In fact, STO uses the best F2P model I've encountered to date. They're pretty much pioneers in legit F2P, basically. They are the model.
Having said that, yeah. Hopefully there is no further level increase, or if there is, hopefully there's some genius design going on that will somehow manage to please both the whales and the minnows.
As long as they keep introducing specializations they might be able to make ships forever.
P.S. I do owe cryptic a debt of gratitude in a strange way. Because of them I have learned how evil F2P really is and cryptic has made me learn the hard way and for that I am eternally gratefull. It goes way beyond them turning me away from F2P games. Because of what I know now I can teach others how evil F2P really is and maybe save someone from becoming a victom.
Another hypocritical comment from you, considering your inability to read (and understand) the post made by iconians. He's wrote: You (in your ignorance it would seem) have quoted only the bit you need to make an otherwise futile point. I have bolded the important bit that you have seemingly missed. This second half of his message clearly states "or there are 10 other people who will if you don't". This clearly shows that he wasn't calling everyone a liar. Instead he was suggesting that if [those] people weren't lying, then there would be people that would make the purchase regardless. Kind of comes full circle with regard to the sales.
If you're going to attempt to call someone out for their inability to comprehend a discussion, make sure you're doing a perfect job yourself, save looking the fool.
At this stage in the games development, any future faction wouldn't be worth it. It doesn't matter who we're playing these days, we're all doing exactly the same thing, we've a little story to set us on our way, and then all the missions, all the content, everything - it's all the same. I know people want other factions (Cardassians, Liberated Borg, Mercenaries) but Cryptic would have to incorporate any of these [would be] factions into every existing element of the game, and I don't think any of them (or most of us for that matter) are aware of just how much would need reworking.
I have given up on seeing any new faction, and if one is released, it's highly unlikely I'll be bothering with it. It would be at least two years away I'd think, and the amount of content and further reps that'll likely be introduced before then, it'll just be too much for half the community to want to bother with again. Can you honestly see half of the community choosing to start a new character for another faction with the then-quest of leveling them all the way to 60, attaining all the reps (repeatable PvE queue missions to get the marks) and then a further grind for the specialization points? I don't.
I appreciate your honesty. And really, it doesn't matter if you did or didn't. If you like your purchases, hey, it's your money. I spent money on that special promotion for Chase Masterson's charity and acquired my very first T6 ship through a purchase that way. The major difference being ethical monetization. So I did not mind.
But from a bean counting standpoint, Cryptic doesn't care much for our reasons on buying various things. They just see the profit numbers. They see metrics. Whatever feedback we leave over why we buy it is inconsequential to the people in charge. As long as we buy it, they don't care what our reasons are.
And there are enough players out there (likely not on the forums), who simply don't care. I am saving up my Zen stipend and dilithium and will likely buy any T6 Odyssey they come out with, so I have no problems admitting my own hypocrisy. The majority decided, and they decided they're perfectly fine with rebuying their ships over and over again.
I don't agree, but it doesn't matter what my opinion is. Talk is cheap. Money says more.
though I cant speak for anyone else I certainly wont buy any T7 ships if they come out, I only bought the first T6 ship pack because I thought it would be absolutely ages before the gave away any free T6 event ships and I certainly didn't think they would release T6 veteran ships.
luckily I didn't spend any money buying the T6 ship pack as if I knew then what I know now I probably would not have bothered, so now I have 3 account unlocked T6 event ships plus 3 T6 vet ships one for each faction so basically every one of my character has access to 4 T6 ships that I got for free and I assume the same will happen with T7 ships at least for the event ships if nothing else.
whats the point of buying T7 ships if that's going to happen.
if I didn't use converted dilithium but real money to get the T6 ships I would be gutted.
also if they did bring out T7 ships I would probably have to pay for T6u upgrades where event ships and veteran ships get free upgrades so I will stick with free ships from now on, no more dil spent on pointless purchases.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
You do know there's a different meaning to "eating" someone, like that sassy Targ sow you're looking at the whole time bantering with me?
Nah, I'm of course playing a role. Most of the time I pretend to be a bipedal ape on the internet, but sometimes people call me out on typos which I cannot entirely avoid as there are very few keyboards made to work with cloven hooves
And hooray for Targ jokes
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
In hindsight, if T7 does come, then T6 ships will likely be easier acquired (secondary lock box ships etc) and as such, it'll be just as easy to get ahold of them. It'll be the people not wanting to upgrade from T5/U that'll struggle, though it would seem if there's another huge jump, a lot of people will be sailing off anyway, so it wont matter too much to them.
Really? I see it as a question of being asked 'when' is this happen, not *if* as most of us seem to agree it is happening at some point. I also don't see this being anything about doom, if anything it's the opposite of that because Cryptic & STO would benefit from this greatly.
Most people (not everyone) you know wouldn't upgrade to Tier 7 because of the progression reasons. Check. My argument however is that if people upgraded their ships once, they'll likely do so again, the very reason they upgraded from T5 to T6 in the first place is because they care about the game and their progression enough to do so.
That is my basis for my argument. You may be right, but you can't know for certain what the future holds for these friends of yours. It's easy for someone to say "well I wont be buying a T7 ship", I expect a lot of people on the forums said the same when T6 came around, but then over time, many people made the upgrade, some are yet to do so. I also suspect (although I, alike you, cannot confirm either way) that one or two of these friends you speak of will inevitably make that upgrade.
I do not claim to know these people better than you - I don't, although logic would seem to indicate that there's a possibility for them participating in another upgrade several years down the line. I understand all too well that you've said most people, but even among them, I'm thinking some will change their minds. It does make me wonder why you commented at all though, only to tell us that some people you know did upgrade, and some people didn't? Yeah, thanks for that. Real insightful!
But did they buy a T6 ship of which they didn't have?
But he wasn't calling them a liar. You're reading his comment as one thing, when in actual fact, it seems to be two. His comment explains [would-be] ship sales. He hasn't called anyone a liar as far as I can see. That said, as mentioned above, a lot of people who say they wont do something actually do, so there's always going to be a segment of people who will say they wouldn't upgrade, but actually would.
Feel free to try and belittle me further. I'm finding your attempt at patronizing rather entertaining.
My character Tsin'xing
You have a point. And the longer they wait until they start trying that scheme of T7s, the more they may get away with it. Buying a T7 when you had a T6 5 or 6 years down the road can be seen by some, not all but some, as trading in a 2016 Camry for a 2021 Camry. Year by year, tier by tier however, it's more like manufactured obsolescence and I am not going to be any part of it. That's more like buying a 2016 car, having it break down and stall on you in a year, finding out there's no warranty on it and having that same car company call you up trying to sell you a 2017 car. And you know that the 2017 is going to stall out on you again as the best indicator of past behavior is future behavior.
Once again, nothing wrong with your post. You have a good point. I just have one of my own as well.
If someone upgrades from a T5 Defiant to a T6 Defiant, that's an upgrade. If someone upgrades from a T5 Assault Cruiser to a T6 Eclipse, that's still an upgrade. This discussion is about an upgrade from T6 to T7, it doesn't matter whether it's the same model/skin of ship, what matters is that there's another tier of ship involved.
Which is basically what I've done. Again did get the pathfinder and Valiant 3 set, but most of the tier 6 ships I got were from the DR pack, Presideo and sci raptor.
All ships that are NOT resells. And if tier 7 does come, I plan to keep that pattern, mostly buying ships that are brand new.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I would ditto that, I don't see any need to bring in T7 ships and I foresee many players being very peeved if they did and either just not bothering to upgrade further or at worst even quitting the game in disgust.
and what about the pledge cryptic made about T5 ships when the T6 upgrades happened.
quote :- "Players have been invested in this tier of ships for 4 years and we wanted to avoid devaluing the time and money spent in obtaining them."
well to some extent they kept this pledge even tough it was at a price, how are they going to maintain the T5 ship from devaluing in the face of T7 ships.
I see no reason they cant just add more specializations but in my opinion they need to leave the level cap at 60 and avoid introducing T7 ships at all costs.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
It's even worse than that. They devalued the T5s with the first wave of intel T6 ships, just by perception of superiority alone. The more T6 ships that were released the more reasonable it seemed to punish other non-T6 players. Some people started tier-checking their "teammates" in STFs. If one was a T5 or T5U, they warp out, leaving the rest to figure out how to beat an enemy with only 4, or even 3 ships. There was one instance when 2 warped out immediately upon seeing an Excelsior (before the resolute was released). Another asked him how much DPS he was packing, and in short order warped out himself. This has already proven to be an instrument for damning those who do not keep up with the latest shiniest ships.
I lay the blame at the feet of the Devs who thought it was a good idea to introduce T6 ships. Back then, they wanted more money, and plenty of people use cash, not dil-to-zen to pick them up. This time, at T6, at least was the mitigating circumstances that they were ignorant of the unintended consequences. Hindsight is 20/20, it's foresight that is fuzzy at times. If they try T7s, now with full knowledge of what happened before, they will be active participants in the trolling and abuse of those who cannot afford T7s.
There maybe those who will stick around gleefully. There likely will be those who stick around, even after protesting against T7s, biting the $40 bullet each and every ship that comes. And there will yes very likely be those that used to play the game. Reasons are not limited to protesting T7s and just sticking by their protest out of principle. There are those whos budgets will be broken. Some may think they can still play with the the T5 or T6 ships, but find themselves being trolled after a tier-checking b@$tard finds them out, and they've had enough of it. And those reasons are just off the top of my head and that's where I'll keep it because I'm noticing the wall of China of text that I decide not to finish.
Bottom line: T7s? Maybe enough players will stick around and buy ship after ship, year after year, tier after tier, and they sell enough to get away with it. Maybe enough players find no point in buying manufactured obsolescence and it's the end of STO.